View Full Version : Diablosport Predators...time to update!


sprayjunkie
10-31-2006, 02:00 PM
A new revision, 8r02 has been released for the U7191. This revision addresses the new DOD tunes, fan speed control, and allows the user to use our new CMR DAT viewer 3.0, which is just plain awesome. The viewer is not up on the web yet...if anyone is interested, please PM me for details and I can email you the new viewer.
Stay tuned!
Mike :devil:

MonteNorth
10-31-2006, 04:18 PM
Is there a regular gas tune included as well???

yuimyt
10-31-2006, 05:04 PM
Cool. I will get one for Xmas gift from my wife. Cannot wait, Mike!

Bigpritch
11-01-2006, 11:00 PM
What differences can we expect from the Diablo tune vs the 91 octane tune and with DOD and not?

99sprayjunkie
11-01-2006, 11:12 PM
What differences can we expect from the Diablo tune vs the 91 octane tune and with DOD and not?
The non DOD tunes are designed for day to day drivig, with max increases as seen in graphs posted in another thread, but WITHOUT ANY DOD ISSUES. The standard Predator tune still has a slight DOD engagement issue, but has more TM removed, providing for a real nice WOT, track night type of tune. The 91 octane tunes are designed for people in parts of the country where 93 is not available, as the standard tunes are designed for 93.
Hope this answers your questions, and check out the new DAT viewer. :devil:

eddiemoney
11-02-2006, 08:16 AM
what about my 2007. . . . ;) Get working on that one :)

BuffaloSS
11-02-2006, 08:52 AM
what about my 2007. . . . ;) Get working on that one :)

I thought their PCM's were bulletproof and tunes weren't going to be an option?

gulfstreamcpt
11-02-2006, 11:45 AM
The non DOD tunes are designed for day to day drivig, with max increases as seen in graphs posted in another thread, but WITHOUT ANY DOD ISSUES. The standard Predator tune still has a slight DOD engagement issue, but has more TM removed, providing for a real nice WOT, track night type of tune. The 91 octane tunes are designed for people in parts of the country where 93 is not available, as the standard tunes are designed for 93.
Hope this answers your questions, and check out the new DAT viewer. :devil:


Hey y'all;
For those wondering what the actual differences are between the new tunes in the R802 revision, below I have cut and pasted an email that I received from Johan at Diablo asking him to explain the differences. (He's the tech at Diablo that actually makes the tunes for those of you who may not know who he is)

"The Diablo tune with DoD off is the stronger ones out of the two as I
can remove more torque management which I can not do while DoD is active,
thus the surge."

Sincerely:
Johan Mangs


So as Johan (and Mike) tells me, both Diablo tunes will be stronger than than both of the 91 octane tunes, obviously b/c the 91 tunes are using 91 octane gas and the Diablo tunes are designed for 93 octane fuel; higher octane better power. But between the DOD to non DOD tunes, Johan is singing a bit different tune. He is saying the non DOD will be the strongest tunes, as he mentioned above, since more torque mgmt can be taken out of those compaired to the ones with the DOD still active. In his quote above when he says the Diablo tune with DOD off is the stronger one out of the two, he is answering my question to him as to which of the tunes is stronger; the straight Diablo tune with DOD or the one without. So if ur looking for the best all-out performance and power for track nite or out looking to make most anything that rolls up next to you look silly, at least as Johan says, use the Diablo tune DOD off.

eddiemoney
11-02-2006, 01:31 PM
I thought their PCM's were bulletproof and tunes weren't going to be an option?

Anything can be broken :)

yuimyt
11-02-2006, 02:33 PM
Anything can be broken :)

Only time and money needed! :engarde:

06MonteSS
11-02-2006, 02:41 PM
Ok all, please bear with me, this is long... I have included quotes below from throughout this thread from sprayjunkie, boba17, and boba17's quote from Johan... I can't tell what is what - some things sound like they contradict themselves, or at best confuse the 2 new tunes -- so when reading my questions below, see if you can figure it out based on the items I've quoted and be able to answer my questions... Thanks!

sprayjunkie -- We are planning to release a new revision which will give you the option of two tunes.

One will be called WOT performance, which will be similar to the current tune, with all the power, still with a slight DOD issue, for racing, performance driving scenarios. The idea behind the WOT performance tune is to use it at the track, or during spirited driving.

The second will be a street tune, with no DOD issue, with a slight loss of power from the WOT tune, yet still a solid improvement over what is out there now(and over stock). The street tune will have NO DOD issues. Boba17 is running our latest 'street tune' and has reported no issues.

boba17 -- I'm currently running a 'Street Tune' developed by Johan at Diablo. I must say, it's the Fastest tune to date for my car. My son drove the drove the car with my observations. The car was driven in Drive at a 5 mph roll, very little tire spin, but a Tremendous lurch, and the low end torque was amazing, the speedometer went from 20 to 90mph, in no time at all.
My 'Street Tune' does Not use the DOD, nor do i want it! I have another 'Tune' file which has the DOD enabled and works just fine. My 'Street Tune' from Johan has more 'Top End Power'.

I have Two (2) tunes, one which had the DOD disabled, and is by far the Fastest tune. The second tune is with the DOD enabled, with no surging taking place, but not as fast due to Top End Power not programmed in the software.

sprayjunkie -- The non DOD tunes are designed for day to day drivig, with max increases as seen in graphs posted in another thread, but WITHOUT ANY DOD ISSUES.

The standard Predator tune still has a slight DOD engagement issue, but has more TM removed, providing for a real nice WOT, track night type of tune. The 91 octane tunes are designed for people in parts of the country where 93 is not available, as the standard tunes are designed for 93.

Johan -- "The Diablo tune with DoD off is the stronger ones out of the two as I can remove more torque management which I can not do while DoD is active, thus the surge."


boba17 -- So as Johan (and Mike) tells me, both Diablo tunes will be stronger than than both of the 91 octane tunes, obviously b/c the 91 tunes are using 91 octane gas and the Diablo tunes are designed for 93 octane fuel; higher octane better power. But between the DOD to non DOD tunes, Johan is singing a bit different tune. He is saying the non DOD will be the strongest tunes, as he mentioned above, since more torque mgmt can be taken out of those compaired to the ones with the DOD still active. In his quote above when he says the Diablo tune with DOD off is the stronger one out of the two, he is answering my question to him as to which of the tunes is stronger; the straight Diablo tune with DOD or the one without. So if ur looking for the best all-out performance and power for track nite or out looking to make most anything that rolls up next to you look silly, at least as Johan says, use the Diablo tune DOD off.

Now...

from boba17 - "I have Two (2) tunes, one which had the DOD disabled, and is by far the Fastest tune." so, which one is this, the WOT Performance tune or the street tune?

The second tune is with the DOD enabled, with no surging taking place, but not as fast due to Top End Power not programmed in the software. so, which one is this, the WOT Performance tune or the street tune?

Judging from Johan's response, it sounds like the "street tune" is the one with the DOD still enabled and with the surge... and the "WOT Performance Tune" is the one with DOD disabled, since he said it's the stronger one and he can remove more torque management since the DOD is disabled - cuz he can't while it's active.

And sprayjunkie says that the non-DOD tune (street tune?) is for day-to-day driving with no DOD issues - and slight loss of power from the WOT Performance tune... and that the WOT Performance tune is for track and still has DOD and the surge issue.

So, with that and Johan's response - is Johan actually saying that the street tune is stronger than the WOT Performance tune??

Does the street tune have DOD disabled??

And as boba17 says: "So if ur looking for the best all-out performance and power for track nite or out looking to make most anything that rolls up next to you look silly, at least as Johan says, use the Diablo tune DOD off."

According to all the other info provided, the street tune is the one with DOD turned off - because it states that the WOT Performance tune still has DOD enabled/issues.

What is what here?? :jest:

So...

...the "street tune" has DOD totally disabled, and is for 93 octane, and it is the "non-DOD" tune that is better for daily driving??

...the "WOT Performance" tune has DOD enabled, but with the slight surge issue, and is for 93 octane, and it is the "standard Predator tune" that is better for track/spirited/aggressive driving??


From the initial reports, it sounded like the WOT Performance tune was the one that had DOD totally disabled, hence they were able to get rid of more torque management - so better for the track.... and the "street tune" was the one that still had DOD enabled, but the surging issue was fixed.

HELP!!

Thanks for going through all this - any and all info is GREATLY appreciated!!

yuimyt
11-02-2006, 02:57 PM
LOL we need to make them clear! LOL

WOT is supposed to be DOD-taken off and fastest.
Street is supposed to be slight power down and DOD is still on, but no surge.

Am I correct?

Area47
11-02-2006, 03:04 PM
why in the hell are you getting rid of dod anyways? it doesn't affect WOT as it is.

::shrugs::

SidewaysLS4
11-02-2006, 03:23 PM
Yep, lots of versions. IMO Diablo needs to get some PCM editing software that can edit the TCM and its requested torque reduction in shifts (not too good to remove more than 33-50% max either, tranny slips a bit immediately post shift beyond that). Kinda like using an axe to clip your toenails with editing the ECM TM and goofing up things like DOD transitions in the process. I am wondering, with these tunes is there any effect on traction control as well?

gulfstreamcpt
11-02-2006, 05:02 PM
LOL we need to make them clear! LOL

WOT is supposed to be DOD-taken off and fastest.
Street is supposed to be slight power down and DOD is still on, but no surge.

Am I correct?

Yes, you are correct. I think what is confusing most people is that there have been three revisions of the 7191 handheld we have and all three have had different names for the tunes contained in each revision. So I think we need to do a little overview of the revisions and the tunes (and thier names) that came with each revision.

R99 RevisionR99 Revision :

This was the first revision that came with the Predator when the 7191 was first available. It came with three tunes. All hav the DOD active and all had the DOD surge problem. The names of these first tunes were:

-Diablo tune
-91 Octane tune
-Factory HP tune


8r01 Revision[/B]R801 Revision:

This was the second revision that first tried to coimbat the "DOD surge" issue. There was two tunes that came with this revision and many of us had sent in a copy of out factory setting to Johan so he could send back to us the two new tunes for us to try B4 they would be available in the new revision. THe names of these tunes were:

-"Street Tune" This one had the DOD active and had little to no DOD surge issues.

-"WOT Tune" This was the more powerful of the two as it had more of the TM removed than the "Street Tune" and this one had no DOD functionality at all.


8r08 Revision8r02 Revision:

This is the current revision that is out now and hence has new names to the tunes, and I think this is where people are getting confused. You can pertty much throw the terms "WOT tune" and "street tune" out the window as they really aren't prevelant anymore. For those of you who have downloaded the new 8r02 revision, you will find these 5 tunes in there now:

-Diablo Tune
-Diablo Tune No DOD
-91 Oct Tune
-91 Oct Tune No DOD
-Factory HP Tune

The explaination of the differences in these tunes, coming right from Johan at Diablo, is this. The tunes with the DOD not working are a more powerful than their counterpart tunes that have the DOD working as more TM has been removed. (So the Diablo No DOD tune will be stronger than the straight Diablo tune, and the 91 Oct No DOD will be stronger than the straight 91 Oct tune). Johan (and Mike) have both told me that the Diablo tunes will be the stronger of the tunes compaired to the 91 Oct Tunes as the Diablo Tunes are designed to work with 92 and up octane fuel and the 91 Oct Tunes are, of course, ment to be used with 91 octane fuel for people that don't have the higher octane fuel available to them in their area. So, fuel 101 says that the higher the octane fuel you use, usually the more power your engine can produce. So, for those of you wondering, the Diablo Tune No DOD will be the strongest of all the tunes that are available in the new 8r02 revision, that is coming straight from Johan.

I have only had a chance to drive the 91 Oct Tunes so far (I filled up with 91 fuel the morning the new revision came out, so I can't use the Diablo tunes until I fill up with 93 and I'm gone on my work rotation and won't be back for a couple of weeks), but both the 91's feel as strong if not a bit stouter than the 8r01 tunes and the 91 with the DOD still active I feel no surge at all. Great job guys!!! I can't wait to get home to try the Diablo Tunes.

Area47
11-02-2006, 05:43 PM
soooooooooo, you're turning off the dod function to get rid of more trq mngmt?
:shrugs: okie dokie

06MonteSS
11-02-2006, 06:35 PM
So...

In comparison to the original names - the "Diablo Tune" is the "WOT Performance Tune" with the slight DOD issue??

And the "Diablo Tune No DOD" is the "street tune" with less performance than the WOT Performance Tune (but still a lot better than stock) but with DOD disabled and no DOD issues??

or is it vice-versa?? WOT Performance tune is the Diablo no DOD tune, and the street tune is the Diablo Tune with the slight DOD issue still??

Which one is better for day-to-day driving?? Is there still any DOD issue with any of the tunes, or has it been fixed completely??

Is there no torque management left in at all?? What are the consequences we'll face with having no torque management left in?? Are we gonna run over our own trannies after a while??? :jest:

BigMikeGXP
11-03-2006, 12:39 AM
lol

Diablo needs to chill out on removing so much torque management. The car runs better with a little bit left in.

sprayjunkie
11-03-2006, 09:23 AM
OK guys, maybe I was a bit confused....here's the deal.
No DOD is the WOT tune, for maximum performance and acceleration.
DOD enabled is the STREET tune for best cruising/mileage. You should have no DOD surge issues while using this tune, while providing power and torque gains throughout the entire RPM range that will leave you hunting drag radials.
We do not remove as much TM as some of you may think as well. Noone will be dropping trannies using either of these tunes!
Let me know if you guys have any more questions.
BTW, have any of you guys used the new DAT viewer we have released?
This thing rocks!
Thanks
Mike

06MonteSS
11-03-2006, 09:30 AM
I don't have a Predator yet, but I installed the viewer last night and played around with the sample files it comes with... it's pretty slick!!

and thanks for clearing up the "what tune is what" issue!!

06MonteSS
11-06-2006, 04:03 PM
what fuses have to be removed when using the Predator?? In the user book, it says OnStar, the radio fuses, special equipment option power, etc etc.

I can understand the OnStar fuse maybe, but the radio fuses???

If I remove the OnStar fuse(s), won't that reset all of my OnStar info, settings, phone number, stored numbers, etc etc??

sprayjunkie
11-07-2006, 09:25 AM
OnStar is the only thing you need to disable.....

06MonteSS
11-07-2006, 10:12 AM
OnStar is the only thing you need to disable.....

ok cool, but again... If I remove the OnStar fuse(s), won't that reset all of my OnStar info, settings, my phone number, stored numbers, etc etc??

and what about the DRL's or auto-headlights that would or may come on, since I'd be inside my garage?? Any issues with that?

hexxLS4
11-07-2006, 03:30 PM
I can't even get my tuner to work on my car. I get the following error:

"Unable to read p/n of first configuration file."

Pic: http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c97/s0ulr0ck4h/200610011652_00337.jpg

This happens after I select Automatic Transmission.

In my email diagnostics session with Johan, he could not figure out what the problem is. So I'm going to bring my car to him personally so he can figure it out. He said he'd give me some free dyno time to tweak my tune for my troubles.

06MonteSS: During troubleshooting, he kepting telling me not to remove ANY fuses...

Anyone else getting this problem besides me?

Also, what does DOD have to do with removing tranny torque management?? When you are WOT, DOD is never active anyways...so what's the difference? In theory, shouldn't one be able to get all the performance they want without touching the torque management that affects the enabling and disabling of DOD???? Someone please explain. I think this is what Area is questioning.

SidewaysLS4
11-07-2006, 04:11 PM
Also, what does DOD have to do with removing tranny torque management?? When you are WOT, DOD is never active anyways...so what's the difference? In theory, shouldn't one be able to get all the performance they want without touching the torque management that affects the enabling and disabling of DOD???? Someone please explain. I think this is what Area is questioning.

Diablo seems to be wiping the ability of the ECM to reduce torque universally in the goal of removing the torque management in shifts. This in turn creates the surge when DOD is turned on or off (no timing cut). Functionally the TCM asks the ECM to cut power in shifts, but since the Diablo tuner apparently cant talk to the TCM to reprogram it to ask for less, they attack the issue by removing the ECM's ability to adjust torque levels in shifts, DOD transitions, and so forth.

gulfstreamcpt
11-07-2006, 10:27 PM
[QUOTE=hexxLS4]I can't even get my tuner to work on my car. I get the following error:

"Unable to read p/n of first configuration file."

Pic: http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c97/s0ulr0ck4h/200610011652_00337.jpg

This happens after I select Automatic Transmission.



06MonteSS: During troubleshooting, he kepting telling me not to remove ANY fuses...

Anyone else getting this problem besides me?


Yes, I did get that message the first time I tried to use my Predator. Felt kinda dumb after I figured out what the problem was, I didn't have the ignition in the on position on my car as I was trying to use the thing. Turned the key on and it worked like a charm. Don't know if this is your issue, but if it is; EASY FIX!!!

Area47
11-08-2006, 12:32 PM
it is very simple.
removing engine torque management caues the surge on dod.
dod is no where near active on WOT driving. so diabling d0d is pretty much pointless
removing too much torque managment will cause the tranny to shift slower on the 1-2 shift. keep this in mind.
if you go above 28.5 degrees of total timing, helllooooo kr!

SidewaysLS4
11-08-2006, 01:13 PM
if you go above 28.5 degrees of total timing, helllooooo kr!

If its cooler by you now, do some scans...I was running a new high (on the still still stock tables) of 30.5 degrees in 3rd and no KR.

hexxLS4
11-08-2006, 01:17 PM
THANK YOU for clarifying that! I understood why the surging was occuring, however I did not understand why they were even messing with that torque management table. It was driving me nuts that they were messing with DOD at all after reading all the experiences with HP tuning. Makes total sense now. Has diablosport commented on the future in regards to talking directly to the TCM?

And regarding that error message....I always have the key out of the ignition when I attempt the tune. Throughout the entire diagnostics with Johan and the phone tech, I was never once asked to leave the key in the ON position. In the manual, I believe it says to make sure everything is completely off...thus not having the key in the ignition. Man, if this works, I will be so happy today!! Thanks for responding!!! :)

sprayjunkie
11-08-2006, 01:30 PM
THANK YOU for clarifying that! I understood why the surging was occuring, however I did not understand why they were even messing with that torque management table. It was driving me nuts that they were messing with DOD at all after reading all the experiences with HP tuning. Makes total sense now. Has diablosport commented on the future in regards to talking directly to the TCM?

And regarding that error message....I always have the key out of the ignition when I attempt the tune. Throughout the entire diagnostics with Johan and the phone tech, I was never once asked to leave the key in the ON position. In the manual, I believe it says to make sure everything is completely off...thus not having the key in the ignition. Man, if this works, I will be so happy today!! Thanks for responding!!! :)
Dude, The KEY MUST BE ON!!!
This will fix your problem.
TCM support is coming in the future, it will be a free upgrade to the tool when it becomes available.
Thanks
Mike

Area47
11-08-2006, 01:47 PM
If its cooler by you now, do some scans...I was running a new high (on the still still stock tables) of 30.5 degrees in 3rd and no KR.


i may do that this weekend, i need to actually since i moved my IAT sensor

hexxLS4
11-08-2006, 02:09 PM
Dude, The KEY MUST BE ON!!!
This will fix your problem.
TCM support is coming in the future, it will be a free upgrade to the tool when it becomes available.
Thanks
Mike

Thanks again. It's funny that I've gone through like 20 emails of tech support and about an hour on the phone and this was never once mentioned as a troubleshooting step. That's like being a computer phone tech and trying to troubleshoot an issue without asking the user to reboot first. You also notice that the manual hasn't been updated for the LS4? They ask you to take out fuses that don't even exist! (Some of them weren't there anyways). But then Johan told me to make sure I do not remove them.... :confused:

06MonteSS
11-09-2006, 11:01 AM
what are the uses for the E40_PCInterface?? If I'm just downloading updated CROM files from the site, and putting the updated tunes into the predator and my car, do I need the E40_PCInterface for anything?? I should just need the DS_Downloader, right?

The E40_PCInterface app looks like it sends and gets .lan and .bin files for something...

So which apps do I really need??

sprayjunkie
11-09-2006, 12:30 PM
Thanks again. It's funny that I've gone through like 20 emails of tech support and about an hour on the phone and this was never once mentioned as a troubleshooting step. That's like being a computer phone tech and trying to troubleshoot an issue without asking the user to reboot first. You also notice that the manual hasn't been updated for the LS4? They ask you to take out fuses that don't even exist! (Some of them weren't there anyways). But then Johan told me to make sure I do not remove them.... :confused:
It would seem almost too obvious, thats why noone asked if you had the key on. The owners manual clearly states this, as well as the prompts on the Predator while you're installing the tune.

sprayjunkie
11-09-2006, 12:31 PM
what are the uses for the E40_PCInterface?? If I'm just downloading updated CROM files from the site, and putting the updated tunes into the predator and my car, do I need the E40_PCInterface for anything?? I should just need the DS_Downloader, right?

The E40_PCInterface app looks like it sends and gets .lan and .bin files for something...

So which apps do I really need??
PCinterface is used to install custom tunes to the Predator, or to pull a copy of your backup for safe keeping or modification.

BADDLS1SS
11-09-2006, 12:35 PM
i may do that this weekend, i need to actually since i moved my IAT sensor


The IAT sensor is part of the MAF..... Did you move the MAF?

Area47
11-09-2006, 01:04 PM
The IAT sensor is part of the MAF..... Did you move the MAF?


nope!
clipped two wires, went and raped an f-body for the iat sensor and harness/plug, and wired it into the system.

the computer still thinks it's there with the rest of the mas system, but in reality, it's crammed into the front of the filter
:)

BADDLS1SS
11-09-2006, 01:13 PM
One way to do it for sure! I just used my HPT and took away all the computer's right to adjust anything based on the IAT readings, except for over 120 degrees it start pulling timing yet... But fueling is flat lined elsewhere.

i have one of them clear plexiglass air box things i got from a guy with a GTP... and it still reads 80 degree IAT's when its 35 out lol... but the computer is not compensating at all from that any longer. Its there for looks pretty much cept for 120+ degrees

Area47
11-09-2006, 01:15 PM
One way to do it for sure! I just used my HPT and took away all the computer's right to adjust anything based on the IAT readings, except for over 120 degrees it start pulling timing yet... But fueling is flat lined elsewhere.

i have one of them clear plexiglass air box things i got from a guy with a GTP... and it still reads 80 degree IAT's when its 35 out lol... but the computer is not compensating at all from that any longer. Its there for looks pretty much cept for 120+ degrees


30 bucks for a gm parts counter.
do it! it makes a world of difference. if you need a how to. there is one written up on clubgp, but it is for 04-05 cars, i do how ever have a nice cheat sheet for 06 cars

BADDLS1SS
11-09-2006, 01:25 PM
30 bucks for a gm parts counter.
do it! it makes a world of difference. if you need a how to. there is one written up on clubgp, but it is for 04-05 cars, i do how ever have a nice cheat sheet for 06 cars

Ive taken care of it already through the computer... no need, the IAT is just for looks now, cant rob power anymore except when needed.

06MonteSS
11-09-2006, 01:46 PM
PCinterface is used to install custom tunes to the Predator, or to pull a copy of your backup for safe keeping or modification.

Doesn't the DS_Downloader do that as well?? I see there's a button there to "Get Tune File from Predator"...

yuimyt
11-09-2006, 01:58 PM
Mike,

How long do you think it takes for TCM support to be available? Within a year? or 6 months??

sprayjunkie
11-09-2006, 03:04 PM
Doesn't the DS_Downloader do that as well?? I see there's a button there to "Get Tune File from Predator"...
It does do that as well, just not on this (U7191) part number.

sprayjunkie
11-09-2006, 03:04 PM
Mike,

How long do you think it takes for TCM support to be available? Within a year? or 6 months??
I am just guessing here, but I would say definitely within the next 6 months.

06MonteSS
11-09-2006, 04:16 PM
aaah, ok... so for my model (U7191), I'll have to use the PCInterface to create a backup of my original/factory tune to my PC. And for updating the predator and loading tunes into my car, I just need to use the DS_Downloader... gotcha!

Thx!

yuimyt
11-09-2006, 07:50 PM
Can the predator show KR?

yuimyt
11-09-2006, 07:57 PM
Mike,

DiabloSport Trinity will be available in GXP too or is it too early to tell? Expected price range?

sprayjunkie
11-10-2006, 11:57 AM
Can the predator show KR?
Yes....not sure about Trinity though....

live2ride
11-12-2006, 05:49 PM
Can anyone describe the surge issues mentioned with the LS4? After the latest updates came out I ordered, received, and updated my Predator with 8r04. I installed the Diablo tune for 93 octane with the DOD functionality in place. Under steady very light throttle, when the system changes from 4 to 8 cylinders, I feel a tiny little burst of acceleration (surge?) that reminds me of slipping a clutch then dumping it under light pedal.

Iíll be checking in with Diablo tomorrow, assuming work doesnít get in the way.

BADDLS1SS
11-13-2006, 12:18 PM
This surgning, my car does this right after a re-flash with HP Tuner's too. Its fine after about the 2nd or 3rd time it goes into DOD mode, no more surging ever after that, of course untill i reflash it. It hunts around 3-4 times when it does surge, then settles down once speeds are up. Just the ECM settling in is all...

live2ride
11-13-2006, 01:59 PM
Thanks, I'll let it be for awhile to see what happens.

hexxLS4
11-15-2006, 03:21 PM
It would seem almost too obvious, thats why noone asked if you had the key on. The owners manual clearly states this, as well as the prompts on the Predator while you're installing the tune.

Rebooting a computer is too obvious as well...but a vital step in troubleshooting...don't play it down...I was being WALKED through the process step by step starting with the fuses (phone tech)....they missed a very important step in telling me to place the key in the ignition and turning it to on. In fact, he even had me DOUBLE CHECK that nothing was ON. The thing is, when I was reading the manual, I stopped reading after I couldn't locate the fuses that were specified in the and immediately called tech support(again manual isn't even updated with LS4 information...so I discounted the manual as uncredible and called support).

So, yes, I could have could have continued reading the awful manual some more....so I take partial blame. But the tech support was lacking and is also very much at fault. Did I mention that tech support specifically told me to make sure EVERYTHING was NOT ON in the car and to make sure NOT to remove the fuses? Very contradictory.....

And no, the tuner does not prompt to have the key in the ignition. I JUST went out to my car and it does not prompt to have the key in and in the ON position....you click performance tune...select the transmission type...and bam..error.

Either way, the tune is working thanks to your help. And my USB to serial cable is on the way so I can try out the updated tunes.

hexxLS4
11-15-2006, 03:34 PM
Can anyone describe the surge issues mentioned with the LS4? After the latest updates came out I ordered, received, and updated my Predator with 8r04. I installed the Diablo tune for 93 octane with the DOD functionality in place. Under steady very light throttle, when the system changes from 4 to 8 cylinders, I feel a tiny little burst of acceleration (surge?) that reminds me of slipping a clutch then dumping it under light pedal.

Iíll be checking in with Diablo tomorrow, assuming work doesnít get in the way.

That sounds like the surging to me. The reason it's happening is because the predator is removing torque management at the ECM level where DOD torque management is also handled. They do this because they cannot communicate to the TCM to remove tranny torque management so they attack the problem by removing it universally from the ECM.

It's funny that the website states that the predator adjusts shift points/firmness but then leaves it out as a U7191 specific feature on the very same page...very misleading. It almost feels like we're actually beta testers for this thing... :confused:

Area47
11-15-2006, 06:20 PM
the surge is the lack of torque managment in the engine.
nothing more, nothing less.

live2ride
11-16-2006, 06:33 AM
The only item changed from stock is the CAI box. I've only put about 100 miles since the tune and the surge issue going from 4 to 8 cyl has not gone away or even eased up. It's slightly more pronounced when cold and very annoying. I'll call Diablo if I can get some time during the day. I have the latest update installed. I'd like to be prepared with what ever they want, anyone know if they will want the stock tune or a real time data log while the issue is happening?

I recorded a log while driving around with a few WOT to about 70 MPH. until full but had errors while downloading to the Data Viewer. I was able to watch it, just not save it. I was surprised at the total timing advance went to 40 deg at one point and that's the only time I saw 1 deg of KR.

I remember the old days before all the computer control when simply power timing until knock then backing off 2 deg would get you a ton over stock. I wonder if modifying the factory tune with just advance would be any benefit?

SidewaysLS4
11-16-2006, 08:58 AM
I recorded a log while driving around with a few WOT to about 70 MPH. until full but had errors while downloading to the Data Viewer. I was able to watch it, just not save it. I was surprised at the total timing advance went to 40 deg at one point and that's the only time I saw 1 deg of KR.



Yeah, I'd be surprised too with 40 degrees under WOT, are you sure it was WOT? The most I've seen is 31 under ideal conditions before KR starts. I am wondering if the KR attack rate was adjusted also with these tunes. Do you hear any audible knocking? Unless the scanner is reading wrong?

live2ride
11-16-2006, 10:53 AM
Yeah, I'd be surprised too with 40 degrees under WOT, are you sure it was WOT? The most I've seen is 31 under ideal conditions before KR starts. I am wondering if the KR attack rate was adjusted also with these tunes. Do you hear any audible knocking? Unless the scanner is reading wrong?

I don't recall if the 40 was during a WOT run, but I think the RPM was around 4k on the way up. I recall most of the timing in the 30+ range under load. I run 93 oct all the time and have never heard any pings at all.

I started the log and continued with regular light driving and several rolling WOT runs from various speeds. I let the log fill up and reviewed later.

I really like the DOD feature. Most of my normal driving is under 50 on two lane country roads. This is also why the surge issue is so annoying to me. As soon as the grade changes and the engine starts to load up it switches to 8 cylinders with the surge. The switch from 8 to 4 is almost unnoticed.

BADDLS1SS
11-16-2006, 03:03 PM
That burst of accelleration when the DOD hits is how the system functions. Here is a good write up on it below, but it blips the throttle on engaugment to make the transistion not noticeable.

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/0405phr_gm_engine_technology/

"In the LH6, the transition from eight-cylinder operation to four-cylinder operation is aided by electronic throttle control (ETC). At no time does the driver perceive a decrease in engine power when in V-4 mode because ETC applies a seamless increase in manifold pressure. (Translation: when the engine switches to four cylinders, your foot is still pressed the same amount on the gas pedal because the computer has opened the throttle more without you knowing it.) An increase in power demand is just as smooth; there is no dramatic surge in power during transition to V-8 operation beyond what is expected, that's because the ETC closes the throttle in conjunction with cylinder activation."

Area47
11-16-2006, 03:34 PM
you can hear it drop to 4 banger mode right before it kills the cylinders, sounds like you're stabbing the gas really quick {ie if you have an open element filter, like the k&n kit or something like this.

live2ride
11-16-2006, 04:13 PM
Thanks for the explanation.

I canít really tell when it goes into 4 cylinder mode before or after the tune, except for the sound change.

Before the Diablo Tune, except for the slight sound change and slight RPM change, I could not feel the transition into 8 cylinder mode. After the tune, I definitely can tell by the seat of my pants when going 4 to 8. Iím hoping there is something that can be done to save the power tune with DoD enabled, but stop the felt surge.

Area47
11-16-2006, 04:24 PM
Thanks for the explanation.

I canít really tell when it goes into 4 cylinder mode before or after the tune, except for the sound change.

Before the Diablo Tune, except for the slight sound change and slight RPM change, I could not feel the transition into 8 cylinder mode. After the tune, I definitely can tell by the seat of my pants when going 4 to 8. Iím hoping there is something that can be done to save the power tune with DoD enabled, but stop the felt surge.

if they do a small percentage of etm back into the motor, it will stop the surge. you can't feel mine, and i have a over tuned ecm from westers/tunetime. but the same thing still applies regardless of who is tuning it

live2ride
11-17-2006, 08:12 AM
I restored the original backup last night.

I wanted to attempt to log live data from the stock tune and then compare it to a log of live data from the Diablo tune. My download of the log had issues yet again I was able to view it using the Data Viewer, just not save it.

I drove the same way I had with the performance tune and observed one interesting thing. The DoD engaged easier and stayed longer with the Diablo tune. The DoD switch from 4 to 8 was seamless with the stock tune but happened with much sooner.

Once I saw the pattern I kept repeating it to make sure I wasnít insane, then again my wife would probably say I was for spending so much time playing with this stuff.

Kazmaniac
11-18-2006, 12:11 AM
Once I saw the pattern I kept repeating it to make sure I wasnít insane, then again my wife would probably say I was for spending so much time playing with this stuff.

Sure dude, all wives think we're insane for playing with our cars instead of working on their "honey-do" lists.

Boys, boys, boys ... there's NOTHING wrong with doing something that makes you happy. Save a little for yourself - ENJOY LIFE!!!

yuimyt
11-19-2006, 10:50 AM
Don't forget buying something for her that she loves, just because. ;) Then you will be fine



Once I saw the pattern I kept repeating it to make sure I wasnít insane, then again my wife would probably say I was for spending so much time playing with this stuff.

live2ride
11-20-2006, 08:29 AM
Don't forget buying something for her that she loves, just because. ;) Then you will be fine

Oh, I know. I've been married for a long time. The bottom line, as the years add up, the length of time of appeasement shortens regardless of the gift. So far, the laptop has far exceeded most all the jewelry (only likes real stones and gold) Iíve gotten her. She's worth it.

Now back to the subject. I'm waiting for Diablo (Johan) to reply to my email regarding sugre with the 8r04 tune, from late Thursday afternoon. I'm wondering if anyone else has tried loading the Factory Tune from Diablo? I did and played with the spark advance only. I only adjusted the WOT advance for mid and upper range (+2 to +5) to see the effect on the live data log. I left the low advance alone. In every case the DoD surge issue was present. Makes me wonder what their factory tune was created from? I havenít had time to reset the parameters of the factory tune, but wonder if anyone else had used it and experienced the surge with that as well. I loaded the 93 tune with out the DoD on Saturday evening. The car felt really good.

hexxLS4
11-21-2006, 10:19 AM
the surge is the lack of torque managment in the engine.
nothing more, nothing less.

Same thing I said...only simpler...

live2ride
11-21-2006, 11:45 AM
Same thing I said...only simpler...

I still have not heard back from Johan. I guess I would have assumed that the factory tune they provided for users to update, would have been just that and not one that had already been tweaked w / TQ MGMT.

Oh well, I'll keep it stock for the time being until they can offer some working solution or at least reply to my email.

Thanks for everyones input and also the link to the artical explaining the inner workings of DoD. The changes to the muffler was an interesting feature to the DoD operation.

Area47
11-21-2006, 12:58 PM
if you want a true tune, you have to call someone who can do it. not a plug and play deal. that won't happen.

live2ride
11-21-2006, 02:10 PM
if you want a true tune, you have to call someone who can do it. not a plug and play deal. that won't happen.

I know a custom tune is the only way to get the max out of it. I guess I'm expecting more than perhaps I should. The non DoD tune did fell much better than stock, but I want the DoD feature with out the surge as well.

Area47
11-21-2006, 03:39 PM
I know a custom tune is the only way to get the max out of it. I guess I'm expecting more than perhaps I should. The non DoD tune did fell much better than stock, but I want the DoD feature with out the surge as well.

get hp tuners, or efi live. and come see me
:)

or call westers, or vector.

if you call westers, you get the street map that i have in my gxp
if you call vector? umm, no idea honestly.

if you want to keep it simple, the plug n play method works too. but you have to keep in mind, it will be a mass production piece

joeilesGXP
11-21-2006, 07:39 PM
I just installed the diablo tune w/o DOD. The surge was noticable however not unbearable. the performance gains were great. I am happy with the performance.

live2ride
11-21-2006, 07:55 PM
I just installed the diablo tune w/o DOD. The surge was noticable however not unbearable. the performance gains were great. I am happy with the performance.

Did you mean with the DoD? Was that the Diablo (93 octane) tune? What version? I could probably learn to live with it, but Iíd prefer not to as I mentioned earlier most of my normal local travels have me at speeds between 35-50. I found that the changes in grade caused the DoD to go in and out. 8 to 4 is sweet. The 4 to 8 surge gets on my nerves. I may look into other brands but have already spent the money and want to give them a chance. If I wasn't such a cheap ba$tard, I'd leave the Diablo no DoD tune installed. That tune felt really good.

Kazmaniac
11-22-2006, 12:31 AM
Alright ...

I'm too busy to mess around constantly w/ my car's computer. I want a hand-held, want a 93 power tune w/ no DoD.

Anyone using that tune? You like it? Gas milage? Should be no surge, right?

Thanks!

live2ride
11-22-2006, 06:15 AM
Alright ...

I'm too busy to mess around constantly w/ my car's computer. I want a hand-held, want a 93 power tune w/ no DoD.

Anyone using that tune? You like it? Gas milage? Should be no surge, right?

Thanks!

I tried the 93 no DoD tune for a short time and it felt great but I have no hard numbers. I also have no idea on the MPG. The was no surge since it stays in 8 cyl mode.

I did some reading of the many Q&A posts on Diablo's site. One indicated that the computer fuel usage would not be correct due to the many parameters changed with the tunes and manual calculation would be the only way to get an accurate reading.

I also read one that said that the Factory HP Tune option is the base factory tune that you can change some parameters. If that statement is true then the factory base tune they use also has the DoD surge issue. I tried that tune only adjusting +2%-+5% WOT spark advance to see the live data results and had the same surge as the 93 w/DoD tune. The data log I viewed was also completely different than the original stock tune on the car.

live2ride
11-22-2006, 02:23 PM
Received an email from Johan at Diablo Sports. He is not aware of anyone else having the surge since the latest releases came out. I'm sending my original tune for his review. If anyone else still has the surge issue since the 8r02 update, you may want to contact Diablo. I'm hoping that it's just not me and joeilesGXP who still have the surge. He was also surprised the Factory Tune has it his comment was: "And why the factory tune surges is very strange as we do not modify anything when loading it.
"

Hope everyone has a great Thanksgiving.

joeilesGXP
11-22-2006, 06:16 PM
Did you mean with the DoD? Was that the Diablo (93 octane) tune? What version? I could probably learn to live with it, but Iíd prefer not to as I mentioned earlier most of my normal local travels have me at speeds between 35-50. I found that the changes in grade caused the DoD to go in and out. 8 to 4 is sweet. The 4 to 8 surge gets on my nerves. I may look into other brands but have already spent the money and want to give them a chance. If I wasn't such a cheap ba$tard, I'd leave the Diablo no DoD tune installed. That tune felt really good.

i have the diablo 93 octane tune with the dod turned off. the most aggressive tune it offers. I am operating on the most recent update the one on the diablesport website. and I will tell you I am not having any serious surging issues with it. for your info. I have CAI, MAF and Hogan down pipe with hi flow cat.

joeilesGXP
11-22-2006, 06:34 PM
the surge I am feeling is very slight. unlike some of the other quotes it is really not a problem at all.

live2ride
11-22-2006, 07:13 PM
i have the diablo 93 octane tune with the dod turned off. the most aggressive tune it offers. I am operating on the most recent update the one on the diablesport website. and I will tell you I am not having any serious surging issues with it. for your info. I have CAI, MAF and Hogan down pipe with hi flow cat.

I didn't notice a surge issue with that tune either. I really liked the non DOD tune also, but want the DoD enabled. The 93 with DoD has it, at least with my car. Johan sent me a tune to try. I'll load it tomorrow when it stops raining.

Kazmaniac
11-23-2006, 01:00 AM
I tried the 93 no DoD tune for a short time and it felt great but I have no hard numbers. I also have no idea on the MPG. The was no surge since it stays in 8 cyl mode.

I did some reading of the many Q&A posts on Diablo's site. One indicated that the computer fuel usage would not be correct due to the many parameters changed with the tunes and manual calculation would be the only way to get an accurate reading.

I also read one that said that the Factory HP Tune option is the base factory tune that you can change some parameters. If that statement is true then the factory base tune they use also has the DoD surge issue. I tried that tune only adjusting +2%-+5% WOT spark advance to see the live data results and had the same surge as the 93 w/DoD tune. The data log I viewed was also completely different than the original stock tune on the car.

Appreciate the feedback Bill! Pretty much sold on the hand-held with the 93 / no DoD tune for the MCSS.

hexxLS4
12-12-2006, 02:12 PM
Any updates regarding communication with the TCM???

06MonteSS
12-13-2006, 08:32 AM
...and has the surge issue been resolved in the tune that has DOD enabled??

either way, what are the current tune user's impressions/experiences so far? Everything holdin' up ok?

live2ride
12-13-2006, 09:21 AM
...and has the surge issue been resolved in the tune that has DOD enabled??

either way, what are the current tune user's impressions/experiences so far? Everything holdin' up ok?

For me, the surge when the DoD goes from 4 to 8 is still there.

I explained to Johan that even the "Factory Tune" on the tool had the surge. Diablo requested my stock tune and then promply sent me a custom tune. The following is what I sent back to them near the end of November.

"Johan,

I wanted to thank you for getting the new tune back to me so quickly.

I tested the tune yesterday. The first part was about 25 miles with speeds between 35-50 mph using the cruise control set at various speeds for most of the test. The second test was at highway speeds between 55 and 65 for a total distance of about 70 miles. Iím good at hearing the changes between both 8 to 4 and 4 to 8 transitions, so to prevent bias I turned the radio up to cover the exhaust noise.

My first impression for the first 2 miles while the car was cold was the surge was definitely less that before. Once warmed up completely it was still there but felt a little less than the other tune.

During the highway ride when speeds where around 65 the change was almost unnoticeable. At 60 or below it was noticeable but again not as much as the 35-45 range.

I read an article on DoD and how the computer opens the throttle when going into 4 cylinder mode and how the computer closes the throttle when going from 4 to 8 cylinder mode to prevent the change from being noticed. Do you or can you adjust this function when closing the throttle on the 4 to 8 switch? Iím wondering if the increased response from your tune is causing the surge while the throttle is not being closed enough during the 4 to 8 switch.

During the lower speed testing on moderate grade changes (with cruise on) I noticed that after the initial surge the car felt like it slowed a tiny bit to resume the speed.

I know this doesnít explain why the Factory Tune from the Predator had the surge unless my stock calibration is different. I do have the CAI cold air box, but have had this for awhile

Please let me know if there is anything else you need from me or if I can be of further help..

Regards,

Bill McCoy"

I have not received any further communication from Diablo and other folks may not have or be as picky as I am about the surge. Diablo said no one else has complained about the surge since they released the updated tunes. It just bugs me. I doubt they will spend any additional time on it since no one else seems to be affected.

If I didn't want the DoD the top end 93 tune fells really good, but I have no numbers to backup my opnion.

I have not heard of any update nor have I asked about the communication with the TCM, but am also waiting for it and desire the ability to adjust shirt points and firmness.

sprayjunkie
12-13-2006, 09:38 AM
Any updates regarding communication with the TCM???
TCM support is going to be a big effort on the part of our engineers at Diablosport, so it will take some time to get done, but it IS coming. :devil:

live2ride
12-13-2006, 10:37 AM
TCM support is going to be a big effort on the part of our engineers at Diablosport, so it will take some time to get done, but it IS coming. :devil:

Any idea if Johan has had any time to review my return email to him? The text in my previous post is what I had sent. I'm a big fan of the tunes he created and would love to be able to recommend them with out the surge caveat.

Thanks.

sprayjunkie
12-13-2006, 10:46 AM
Any idea if Johan has had any time to review my return email to him? The text in my previous post is what I had sent. I'm a big fan of the tunes he created and would love to be able to recommend them with out the surge caveat.

Thanks.
I know Johan is up to his ears in TCM support testing as well as some new product releases, but I will mention this to him.

live2ride
12-13-2006, 11:12 AM
I know Johan is up to his ears in TCM support testing as well as some new product releases, but I will mention this to him.

He mentioned he was very busy. I'm not looking for an immediate fix or to add to his overloaded schedule, just hopeful an effort is made to make the DoD function as seamless as possible. Iím pleased that as least Diablo has produced a tune for this application when others have not chosen to do so.

As I mentioned before anything I can do to assist, Iím willing to do just let me know.

Thank you.

06MonteSS
12-14-2006, 10:59 AM
Just ordered my Predator - WOOHOO!! Merry Xmas to me, merry xmas to me... LOL

Told the wife that'll be my xmas present from her, but I had to order it now to get it by next week... and I had it shipped to me at work... so when it comes tomorrow (next day air), I can load the tune at lunch time before it gets wrapped for xmas... LOL

live2ride
12-14-2006, 01:59 PM
Just ordered my Predator - WOOHOO!! Merry Xmas to me, merry xmas to me... LOL

Told the wife that'll be my xmas present from her, but I had to order it now to get it by next week... and I had it shipped to me at work... so when it comes tomorrow (next day air), I can load the tune at lunch time before it gets wrapped for xmas... LOL

Let me know if you try the 93 with DoD tune and notice any issues when going from 4 to 8. When I got mine it didn't have the latest revision, but they're simple to download and update.

Enjoy.

06MonteSS
12-14-2006, 09:25 PM
Let me know if you try the 93 with DoD tune and notice any issues when going from 4 to 8.


will do!

I'm also interested to see if it's gonna do it or not. If it does, guess I'll put the no-dod tune in till they get enough flak from me and fix it... ;-)

live2ride
12-15-2006, 01:35 PM
will do!

I'm also interested to see if it's gonna do it or not. If it does, guess I'll put the no-dod tune in till they get enough flak from me and fix it... ;-)

What Iíve been whining about is just annoying to me, but isnít enough for me to keep the non DoD tune installed. Iím too cheap for that. If the SS was my daily driver, and the switch occurred often, Iíd consider removing it though.

Good luck!

06MonteSS
12-15-2006, 02:01 PM
well, just checked the status of my order, and it's on the truck for delivery... so I'll be installing it tonight!! WOOHOO!!

I'll report back later on tonight - I'll get the tune installed then I have to take my son to basketball, so that'll give me a little road test around town.

06MonteSS
12-15-2006, 02:02 PM
also, when switching between tunes - i.e. going from non-dod tune to the dod tune, do you have to restore the original factory tune first, or can you just put one over the other??

I would think that since their tunes only adjust certain parameters on the factory tune, that one tune may have different parameters changed than the other, so just over-writing tunes could leave stuff mixed up...

like if 1 tune adjusted item A, and then the other tune adjusted item B but doesn't do/use anything with item A, then that new/second tune will have it's own adjusted settings but will still also have that changed setting from item A in there from the first tune, and it wouldn't be back at it's factory default setting. Know what I'm saying?? Am I making sense?? LOL

live2ride
12-15-2006, 02:32 PM
Youíre making perfect sense. I read that you do not need to restore to the original backup when making parameter changes such as when using the ďFactory TuneĒ and setting parameters yourself and then tweaking what you had set.

It does not take long to restore and I did restore when changing between the different tunes. I also turned off the key for 30 seconds between tune changes. To me it was worth the time to know I was always starting fresh.

hexxLS4
12-15-2006, 04:24 PM
For me, the surge when the DoD goes from 4 to 8 is still there.

And the surge isn't going to go away until they can talk to the TCM and control torque management from there. Since they remove torque management universally, it affects dod. The only way to fix it is to restore enough torque management to the point where it makes the 4-8 switch seemless. But by the time you put enough TM back in, it's too much TM and you negate any additional gains and get sluggish \ choppy performance when it does kick in.

PS: I also experience the surge. But it's at least tolerable until they can talk to the TCM. You could always just use the no DOD tune until they fix things if it bothers you that much.

06MonteSS
12-16-2006, 01:02 AM
yup - I've got the surge... I just updated to their new version 8r06 (Fix for clearing of DTC codes) and uploaded the Diablo Tune with No DOD... so, when I go out in the morning, we'll see how I like THAT one...

;-)

Also, once you have the connector on the OBD port, is it a pain in the ass to get it back off like mine is??? once it clips on over that notch, it's hard as hell to get back off without ripping the port off with it...

live2ride
12-16-2006, 10:41 AM
yup - I've got the surge... I just updated to their new version 8r06 (Fix for clearing of DTC codes) and uploaded the Diablo Tune with No DOD... so, when I go out in the morning, we'll see how I like THAT one...

;-)

Also, once you have the connector on the OBD port, is it a pain in the ass to get it back off like mine is??? once it clips on over that notch, it's hard as hell to get back off without ripping the port off with it...

Reading back through some older posts I see other people mentioning the surge issue when the system goes into DoD. I assume they mean from 8 to 4 cyl. My only complaint is when it exits the DoD from 4 back to 8. I would love to understand how the torque mgmt affects the timing and throttle when the condition Iím talking about is under light throttle.

When reading an article about how they pulled off the DoD system to make it near seamless to the driver, it mentioned the computer opening the throttle when the system goes into DoD or from 8 to 4 and then closing the throttle when exiting DoD, going from 4 back to 8 cylinders. The article also talked about changes to the muffler that alters the flow of exhaust gases also aiding in the seamless perception of the DoD system.

Disconnecting the tool from the data port is also tough on mine.

I too am anxious to get the TCM support. Iím looking forward to changing the shift points.

06MonteSS
12-16-2006, 04:48 PM
well, I've been running the "Diablo Tune - No DOD" all day, and the car drives fine. Yeah, mileage may suffer a little cuz of always being in 8 cyl. mode, but it works fine - no issues.

oh, and the wife doesn't know that it got delivered yet, since I told her that it wouldn't be here till next week -- so, I'm just making sure the tune(s) work, then if there's no issues, I'll promptly put it back in the box and tell her it was finally delivered, so she can wrap it up - :)

also, when you update to a new release/version of the crom file - is it normal for the unit to think it's the first time you're connecting, so it backs up the original/factory tune again?? After I updated the Predator to the 8r06 version, I connected it to my Monte and it backed up the stock/factory tune again...

Oh, wait a minute... DUH!! I restored the original/factory tune before I updated the unit... nevermind... LOL :)

live2ride
12-16-2006, 09:09 PM
I saved my backup to the PC for safe keeping. The non DoD tune works really well. It's works so well the trick is to keep your foot out of the throttle.

06MonteSS
12-16-2006, 09:56 PM
I saved my backup to the PC for safe keeping.


yup, so did I... BUT... it saves it as a .lan file.... and is it me, or does none of the diablo software recognize a .lan file??

Everything I've tried to bring up to read in or load the file, nothing shows support for a .lan file...

So, what good is the backup on our PC's???

live2ride
12-16-2006, 10:22 PM
That's the file. The GM_E40 PC Interface is what they use to move tunes between the PC and tool. There is no application relationship defined in Windows, but the Interface program expects that file.

I assume if the tool stops working and has to be returned to Diablo, you still have the original backup to upload from another tool. I'd want my backup as the Factory Tune from the tool also has the issue from 4 to 8, even though they said they don't modify that one.

Does it seem that the air intake noise from the CAI is more with the non DoD tune then with the stock?

06MonteSS
12-18-2006, 09:23 AM
yeah, the whistle is a little more noticable...

ok, so the PC Interface only accepts tune file that are sent to you in .lan format. Is there anyway to load the tune in one of their PC apps to make adjustments and view the data, or can you only "modify tune" using the handheld unit itself??

also, how do I log data and send the log to my PC to view it with their DataViewer?? Is it the Real Time Data option - and does it automatically create/save a log file that you can send to the DataViewer?

I want to get the necessary data to check the fuel-trim settings and make sure they are where they should be, or adjust if necessary...

live2ride
12-18-2006, 06:26 PM
Iím not aware of any software we can use to view or modify the LAN file. You have to modify the tune using the tool. Use the tools "real time data" option to log the data. Using the data viewer software, you can hook up the tool to the PC and select an option on the software to download the log from the tool. You can then save it from the software.

I played with it a few times but the only log I was able to save and view again was the one from the stock tune. The others had an error when downloading them, but when I waited long enough they finished and I could view them. It seemed like I could save them but the program abended each time I tried to load/view the one I had saved.

Good luck.

06MonteSS
12-19-2006, 07:33 AM
are you able to log the LTFT's, or do you need to watch the Predator and write down the numbers?? I haven't been able to find any info on what parameters you can actually log...

also, after reprogramming our PCM's with the Diablo tunes, do we need to do a CASE learn?? do the tunes change that info at all??

"If you are installing a reprogrammed PCM, make sure to take the car to the dealer to get the crank sensor position (or CASE) learned. -- The crankshaft position system variation learning feature enhances the ability of the PCM to detect misfire events over a wide range of engine speed and load. -- The crankshaft position system variation values are stored in the PCM non-volatile memory after the crankshaft position system variationlearn procedure has been performed. DTC 1336 set indicates that the crankshaft position system variation values have not been stored in the PCM and the crankshaft position system variationlearn procedure must be performed."

06MonteSS
12-19-2006, 09:49 AM
another question just came to mind... when you select to "modify tune" before installing it, does it actually change the diablo performance tune in the handheld unit?? or does it just change the settings when it uploads to your car, so that the original diablo performance tune is still the same in the unit as when you first purchased it??

live2ride
12-19-2006, 10:21 AM
I have no idea regarding the crank sensor position. I've never seen any comment on Diable or Hypertech sites mentioning anything. From what I rememebr reading you are not changing their base tunes.

As to logging, the best thing I can recommend is log your stock tune and then when you load it to the dataviwer, you will be able to see everything that is logged.

I had errors saving the other logs so I can;t call them back up, but there are a ton of different parameters you can display. I rememebr 4 in the Fuel area having to do with trims, but not sure what they were. I'll email my stock log later tonight so you can view it.

06MonteSS
12-19-2006, 10:43 AM
COOL! thanks Bill!

sprayjunkie
12-19-2006, 10:46 AM
are you able to log the LTFT's, or do you need to watch the Predator and write down the numbers?? I haven't been able to find any info on what parameters you can actually log...

also, after reprogramming our PCM's with the Diablo tunes, do we need to do a CASE learn?? do the tunes change that info at all??

"If you are installing a reprogrammed PCM, make sure to take the car to the dealer to get the crank sensor position (or CASE) learned. -- The crankshaft position system variation learning feature enhances the ability of the PCM to detect misfire events over a wide range of engine speed and load. -- The crankshaft position system variation values are stored in the PCM non-volatile memory after the crankshaft position system variationlearn procedure has been performed. DTC 1336 set indicates that the crankshaft position system variation values have not been stored in the PCM and the crankshaft position system variationlearn procedure must be performed."
The Predator can log LTFTs as well as almost anything else seen by the PCM.
There is no need for a CASE relearn.

sprayjunkie
12-19-2006, 10:47 AM
another question just came to mind... when you select to "modify tune" before installing it, does it actually change the diablo performance tune in the handheld unit?? or does it just change the settings when it uploads to your car, so that the original diablo performance tune is still the same in the unit as when you first purchased it??
Modifying the tune applies those changes to whichever tune you chose to modify, until the backup is restored and tool is reset.

06MonteSS
12-19-2006, 11:26 AM
Modifying the tune applies those changes to whichever tune you chose to modify, until the backup is restored and tool is reset.


ok, so I would, for instance, choose the Diablo Tune - No DOD - select to modify tune, then install it. At that point, the "original" Diablo Tune - No DOD is changed in the handheld unit itself, to my new settings?

and to get the Diablo Tune - No DOD back to it's "original" settings like when I purchased the Predator, I would restore my original/stock tune, then in the Predator I choose "reset ALL parameters" - and this resets the Diablo Tune to the original performance tuned settings??

I guess I'm thinking my concern is that when I'm doing the reset on the performance tune, that it's not resetting the performance tune to "original/stock" settings, thereby losing the performance tune altogether... so when I install the performance tune, it's actually only the original/stock settings...

Sorry for the newbie inquiries - LOL just want to be sure I don't screw up the handheld after only a week of having it!! LOL

so, on with the questions... LOL... I'm running the Diablo Performance Tune - No DOD... this safe for daily driving?? Also, how would I get it to shift a little more firmer and faster? and is this advisable??

also, I found the attached doc online in a corvette forum - is this process correct / advisable??

And is it something where I could send my log file to you and have you incorporate those changes into the performance tune, or at least tell me what to change in the "modify tune" settings?? There are no local CMR tuners around me, and even though I could email it, I don't know how good any of these people are - so sending it direct to the source makes me more at ease... ;-)

Thanks!

06MonteSS
12-20-2006, 08:06 AM
how do I clear/delete the log from the Predator?? live table reset??

that doesn't reset any of the tunes, right?? just clears the log?

I tried doing a couple of different logging sessions this morning on my way to work, but when I went to do the second logging with only certain parameters, it said that the log was full. (cuz the first time I did EVERYTHING - LOL - and it only recorded for 1 minute 4 seconds before the log was full - actually, the playback on the unit and dataviewer is only 7 seconds??). I figured the first log would get overwritten with the new log session.

sprayjunkie
12-20-2006, 09:49 AM
ok, so I would, for instance, choose the Diablo Tune - No DOD - select to modify tune, then install it. At that point, the "original" Diablo Tune - No DOD is changed in the handheld unit itself, to my new settings? Yes

and to get the Diablo Tune - No DOD back to it's "original" settings like when I purchased the Predator, I would restore my original/stock tune, then in the Predator I choose "reset ALL parameters" - and this resets the Diablo Tune to the original performance tuned settings??Yes

I guess I'm thinking my concern is that when I'm doing the reset on the performance tune, that it's not resetting the performance tune to "original/stock" settings, thereby losing the performance tune altogether... so when I install the performance tune, it's actually only the original/stock settings... No, you cannot erase the performance tunes from the Predator.

Sorry for the newbie inquiries - LOL just want to be sure I don't screw up the handheld after only a week of having it!! LOL

so, on with the questions... LOL... I'm running the Diablo Performance Tune - No DOD... this safe for daily driving?? Also, how would I get it to shift a little more firmer and faster? and is this advisable?? Yes, that tune is perfactly safe for daily driving. Shift pressure and points cannot be adjusted currently through the Predator. We will be adding this feature as an update in the future.

also, I found the attached doc online in a corvette forum - is this process correct / advisable??Yes, this is good info.

And is it something where I could send my log file to you and have you incorporate those changes into the performance tune, or at least tell me what to change in the "modify tune" settings?? There are no local CMR tuners around me, and even though I could email it, I don't know how good any of these people are - so sending it direct to the source makes me more at ease... ;-)

Thanks! If it looks like you need some major changes in the tune, I can have you email me a copy of your original backup with a log file and we can make a new tune for you, but its always better to do it live on a dyno. Johan is on vacation for the holidays, but we can do it when he gets back.

Thanks
Mike

sprayjunkie
12-20-2006, 09:50 AM
how do I clear/delete the log from the Predator?? live table reset??

that doesn't reset any of the tunes, right?? just clears the log?

I tried doing a couple of different logging sessions this morning on my way to work, but when I went to do the second logging with only certain parameters, it said that the log was full. (cuz the first time I did EVERYTHING - LOL - and it only recorded for 1 minute 4 seconds before the log was full - actually, the playback on the unit and dataviewer is only 7 seconds??). I figured the first log would get overwritten with the new log session.
Yes, live table reset.

06MonteSS
12-20-2006, 10:10 AM
Awesome! thanks for addressing all of my questions/concerns Mike!!

06MonteSS
12-20-2006, 09:53 PM
ok... how the hell does this logging work?? I ran a log half way home, the log filled up - so then I went back and did a Live Table Reset (twice!) to clear the log in order to have it run another log while I was on the highway...

after selecting the parameters I wanted to monitor again, I chose Yes to save the log, then it tells me "LOG IS FULL" !!! WHAT?? I just did a live table reset!! Does the log file not clear unless you download it to a PC??? Do you have to "playback" the log in order to clear it?? Why didn't the log file get erased so I could do another one??

Also, I'm running these logs with the Diablo Tune - No DOD installed... and I get one of the LTFT parameters (bank 1) with changing/fluctuating values, but the other one (bank 2) is ALWAYS at "-100.00" and doesn't change at all. How come?? What's up with that??

06MonteSS
12-21-2006, 08:56 AM
I have attached the log file... how come the unit only logged for 15-20 minutes, and the data playback is only 6 seconds?? The sample logs that came with the DataViewer app are much longer and monitored more stuff than I did... Interesting...

06MonteSS
12-21-2006, 12:42 PM
so where's all the answers now??? LOL... HHEEEEEEELLLLLLPPPP!!!!

06MonteSS
12-21-2006, 06:44 PM
helloooooo?????????

06MonteSS
12-21-2006, 06:46 PM
for a recap of the latest questions...

=================================

ok... how the hell does this logging work?? I ran a log half way home, the log filled up - so then I went back and did a Live Table Reset (twice!) to clear the log in order to have it run another log while I was on the highway...

after selecting the parameters I wanted to monitor again, I chose Yes to save the log, then it tells me "LOG IS FULL" !!! WHAT?? I just did a live table reset!! Does the log file not clear unless you download it to a PC??? Do you have to "playback" the log in order to clear it?? Why didn't the log file get erased so I could do another one??

Also, I'm running these logs with the Diablo Tune - No DOD installed... and I get one of the LTFT parameters (bank 1) with changing/fluctuating values, but the other one (bank 2) is ALWAYS at "-100.00" and doesn't change at all. How come?? What's up with that??

I have attached the log file... how come the unit only logged for 15-20 minutes, and the data playback is only 6 seconds?? The sample logs that came with the DataViewer app are much longer and monitored more stuff than I did... Interesting...

06MonteSS
12-22-2006, 08:32 AM
anyone, anyone.. beuller, beuller???

sprayjunkie
12-22-2006, 09:24 AM
Holy cow you are relentless!

I have not personally had much seat time with the DAT viewer so I can't really answer all of your questions. I'll take a look at the log when I get a second. Johan is on vacation this week but I'll get some answers when he gets back. Hit up the LS1GTO boards and ask some of those guys. They seem to have the viewer down pretty good.

Thanks
Mike

live2ride
12-22-2006, 09:26 AM
anyone, anyone.. beuller, beuller???

I doubt Diablo will answer until after the holiday's. I looked at my stock log and yours last night. Mine had the same -100 on the same bank as yours, but I have no idea why. I haven't played with the logging that much, but am off next week and plan on messing with lots of stuff I normally donít have time for. I did not specify individual items, but instead logged all, but I don't remember the exact prompt. Iíve never done a Live Table Reset and will have to see how long I can perform a log. I have run it until it got full and am pretty sure it wasnít that long, maybe ten minutes.

Do you connect a laptop to the tool while driving or connect and download to a PC later? Iíve never connected a laptop and every time I did a log with a Diablo tune installed and then download later, I got an error while downloading but was able to view it. After I saved the log, I was never able to open it without the data view program crashing.

06MonteSS
12-22-2006, 09:51 AM
nope, don't connect a laptop - I just use the handheld and download to my PC after. I've never had an error with the logs like you have, everything downloads fine and the dataviewer has never crashed.

If you've never done a live table reset, how are you able to run another log?? Hmmm... I wonder if the viewer actually removes the log from the tuner... Interesting, I wish there was more info available in the manual on the logging aspect of this tool.

live2ride
12-22-2006, 11:11 AM
Now I'm really wondering. I've run a bunch of different logs, but not since I've updated the version or the tool and data viewer so I'll try more logging this weekend and let you know. Maybe it's Microsoft's fault, what version OS are you running the software on? My wife might say it's the id10t behind the keyboard, but what ever fixes it works for me.

06MonteSS
12-22-2006, 03:19 PM
I'm running Windows XP Professional with Service Pack 2...

06MonteSS
12-23-2006, 10:39 PM
...bump...

06MonteSS
12-26-2006, 04:23 PM
for a recap of the latest questions...

=================================

ok... how the hell does this logging work?? I ran a log half way home, the log filled up - so then I went back and did a Live Table Reset (twice!) to clear the log in order to have it run another log while I was on the highway...

after selecting the parameters I wanted to monitor again, I chose Yes to save the log, then it tells me "LOG IS FULL" !!! WHAT?? I just did a live table reset!! Does the log file not clear unless you download it to a PC??? Do you have to "playback" the log in order to clear it?? Why didn't the log file get erased so I could do another one??

Also, I'm running these logs with the Diablo Tune - No DOD installed... and I get one of the LTFT parameters (bank 1) with changing/fluctuating values, but the other one (bank 2) is ALWAYS at "-100.00" and doesn't change at all. How come?? What's up with that??

I have attached the log file... how come the unit only logged for 15-20 minutes, and the data playback is only 6 seconds?? The sample logs that came with the DataViewer app are much longer and monitored more stuff than I did... Interesting...


just don't want to get lost in the shuffle, so here's a post-holiday bump...

Hope everyone is having a great holiday!!!

joeilesGXP
12-27-2006, 05:03 PM
i agree with you 100% when i install the 93 diablo tune w/o DOD i have no surge issues at all. actually it runs really good.

sprayjunkie
12-28-2006, 09:46 AM
just don't want to get lost in the shuffle, so here's a post-holiday bump...

Hope everyone is having a great holiday!!!
I wish I had some proper answers for this, but I have not spent enough time with the viewer personally to tell you what is happening. Johan is on vacation till the new year, so I will get his input on this as soon as he returns.
Thanks
Mike

06MonteSS
12-28-2006, 04:20 PM
that's cool - thanks Mike! At this point, I think I've got the viewer pretty much down - been playing with it with some logs.

Now what I'm looking for, is for someone to view the logs I have and tell me what's good, bad, and/or ugly... and if anyone can chime in as to what I should adjust/change.

I have 4 logs I've done. The latest two I just did, I had modified the injector slope to -6, since my previous log showed the LTFT from 0(min) to 14.something(max)... the average being 7.something... so when I just installed the tune again, I modified the slope to -6, instead of -7.something, just to be safe.

Here's a link to the log files (inside the zip file): 06MonteSS Logs (http://www.eprowebdesigns.com/06MonteSS/logs.zip)

All runs/logs have been done with the Performance "Diablo - No DOD" tune installed -- and I have a cold air intake box/filter if that makes a difference (pics/info about it (http://coldairinductions.com/W-BodyLS4V8ColdAirBox.html) )

Any input is greatly appreciated!

Thanks!!

06MonteSS
12-30-2006, 07:30 PM
k... I made some changes today... I used the Diablo No DOD performance tune - I set the LTFT to -3, and the PE to +3, based on my other logs I've done.

After warming the car up and driving around for 20 minutes, I started to log... I went up the on ramp to the highway and got on it up the ramp - once on the highway, I set the cruise control to 65... did this for about 15-20 minutes, got off the highway, got back on going back home for about another 15-20 mins, got on it up the ramp, but too much traffic going East to use the cruise, so I pedalled it between 60 and 70 - getting on it a few times from a 60mph roll up to 80. and also some short bursts off the highway.

Anyway, here's a link to the newest log file, and it's .csv counterpart: Latest log file (http://www.eprowebdesigns.com/06MonteSS/latest-log-file.zip)

Should I go down more on the ltft? add more to the PE, or leave it at 0?? etc etc... do I need to drive for a couple days after making any changes to see what the values come out to?

Again, any info as to what I should adjust, or by how much, is greatly appreciated!

jabronie78
12-31-2006, 01:11 PM
So 06MonteSS do you like that Diablo Tuner? I was debating if I should get one or not. Is it worth the $$??

06MonteSS
12-31-2006, 03:25 PM
So 06MonteSS do you like that Diablo Tuner? I was debating if I should get one or not. Is it worth the $$??

yeah, I like it... does what I need it to do.

I'm not a heavy modder, so it'll suit my needs just fine. Right now I've got a CAI and plan on doing a cat-back exhaust (and u-bend delete) in the spring - and that's probably about it for mods for me. You can definitely feel a difference with the performance tunes it has, plus when they are able to "talk" to the tranny, that'll be cool - then I can firm up the shifts and make it shift faster.

06MonteSS
01-02-2007, 07:40 AM
I doubt Diablo will answer until after the holiday's.


yeah, that's what I figured.. but it's after the holidays now - woohoo!!

will wait and see...

I have 2 more newer logs I took over the past couple days... these are with the stock Diablo No DOD tune, with the LTFT and PE parameters reset to the default tune settings - not at the -3 and +3 I had them at before in the other logs.

>> Newest Logs << (http://www.eprowebdesigns.com/06MonteSS/newest-logs.zip)

06MonteSS
01-02-2007, 06:48 PM
well, took another log on the way home - this time all back roads, up-n-down hills, couldn't really get on it much tho... still using the "stock" Diablo No DOD performance tune...

ltft's look lower than other logs - is this because I was going slower than when on the highway?? still have some KR though... interesting... maybe cuz everything's still "learning" after I disconnected the battery 2 or 3 days ago??

>> Here's tonight's log << (http://www.eprowebdesigns.com/06MonteSS/1-2-07--Log.zip)

anyone have any thoughts/input?? I know Johan is the guy to get to look at these, but I'm sure all of you others have done this same stuff... as I'm sure Johan is swamped from just getting back after the holidays...

also, since I did the "reset all tune parameters" and reinstalled the Diablo No DOD performance tune, it doesn't seem as "peppy" as it did the first/initial time I did it. Is this because I pulled the battery cable and the cars learned settings got reset??

Thanks!

06MonteSS
01-03-2007, 07:20 PM
>> Here's a log from tonight too << (http://www.eprowebdesigns.com/06MonteSS/1-3-07--Log.zip) - about the first 1/3 or 1/2 is highway, and the rest is in-town driving - with a couple times able to get on it a little bit.

so no one has any ideas yet, huh?? interesting...

happygounlucky86
01-04-2007, 01:23 AM
Whats up fellas?! Yea its my first post on here but ive been around some other ls4 sites so i sorta know my shit haha. Anyways im deployed over in the middle east right now, but im coming back to the states in a little over a week so im goin to order one of theese beasts and hopefully it gets home before i do. I got a huuuge favor for one of you guys that already got the tuner if they get bored... If you could hook me up with some step by step intructions for hooking it up that would be sweet. I got a little confused and i know the manual that comes with it isnt just for the Monte and what some of you guys were told by the techs are a little condradicting as far as fuses and the igition position during the tune and that kind of thing. I dont want to waste any time when i get back, you have no idea how much i miss that car! haha That would make things go much much smoother. Ohh another thing... I would immagine the tuner doesnt have the latest program installed so do i need to buy any kind of serial to USB cable or is that included? Thanks again- Rick

sprayjunkie
01-04-2007, 10:02 AM
Whats up fellas?! Yea its my first post on here but ive been around some other ls4 sites so i sorta know my shit haha. Anyways im deployed over in the middle east right now, but im coming back to the states in a little over a week so im goin to order one of theese beasts and hopefully it gets home before i do. I got a huuuge favor for one of you guys that already got the tuner if they get bored... If you could hook me up with some step by step intructions for hooking it up that would be sweet. I got a little confused and i know the manual that comes with it isnt just for the Monte and what some of you guys were told by the techs are a little condradicting as far as fuses and the igition position during the tune and that kind of thing. I dont want to waste any time when i get back, you have no idea how much i miss that car! haha That would make things go much much smoother. Ohh another thing... I would immagine the tuner doesnt have the latest program installed so do i need to buy any kind of serial to USB cable or is that included? Thanks again- Rick
Glad your coming home man....
Now, the Predator install is actually very simple. If you have OnStar, you need to disable it through the fuse, if not, do not worry about any fuses. Put the key in the on (run) position without starting the car, and follow the on screen prompts on the Predator. It will walk you through everything.
As far as updating the revision on the tool, its pretty simple as well. You will need a straight through 9 pin to 9 pin serial cable or equivalent USB adapter and a 12v 1 amp A/C adapter to power the Predator up in the house. The software and revisions can be found on our website.

Let me know if you need anything else.

Mike

happygounlucky86
01-05-2007, 11:28 PM
sweetness! Thanks man! Just ordered it all.... and a zzp shift kit and a MAF. life is good. haha

sprayjunkie
01-15-2007, 01:50 PM
sweetness! Thanks man! Just ordered it all.... and a zzp shift kit and a MAF. life is good. haha
I'd have to recommend the stock MAF....

Most of the aftermarket ones we've seen on the flowbench produce some less than desirable results and the stocker will support well over 500rwhp.