Help me select a better cam for my AFR heads please. For a TBSS.
11-08-2006, 01:19 PM
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Help me select a better cam for my AFR heads please. For a TBSS. I have been getting numerious suggestions and comments on different, not-so-technical, forums so I thought I would try and end this over here. I have some pretty good ideas, but what better of a place than ls1tech.com to end a H/C power # issue.
Anyhoots, truck before the heads and ported intake manifold made 353/363 (just cam and headers).
After the heads (AFR 205cc 66 combustion chamber), .045" cometic gaskets, port matched OEM intake manifold, K and N, Magnaflow catback and the following cam. (I have the stock stall, by the way)
The cam:
214 .559 intake
220 .564 exhaust
111.5 LSA
+2.5 Advance
-6 overlap
It made 370/379 after these heads and the intake manifold, by adding timing.
(Tune with Diablo CMR technology)
Most people seem to say that the cam duration is MUCH to low, some people say just up the lift. Heck I have actually heard it all - from take the heads off and mill them, take the heads off and sell them and get Patriot 230cc's, to get rockers, and there has been more than a couple of reasonable people that say my cam is plenty big for the size of this truck (4700lbs).
Just to clear things up, here is my complete mod list:
SW LT headers with ORY
10.4mm Taylor wires
NGK TR55s
K&N CAI
Magnaflow catback with e-cutout
Custom cam
Portmatched intake manifold by Tony Mamo
AFR 205cc heads 66cc combustion chamber
.045 cometic gaskets
Open to comments and suggestions for cam changes or anything else to make the power!
Thanks in advance.
Todd
Anyhoots, truck before the heads and ported intake manifold made 353/363 (just cam and headers).
After the heads (AFR 205cc 66 combustion chamber), .045" cometic gaskets, port matched OEM intake manifold, K and N, Magnaflow catback and the following cam. (I have the stock stall, by the way)
The cam:
214 .559 intake
220 .564 exhaust
111.5 LSA
+2.5 Advance
-6 overlap
It made 370/379 after these heads and the intake manifold, by adding timing.
(Tune with Diablo CMR technology)
Most people seem to say that the cam duration is MUCH to low, some people say just up the lift. Heck I have actually heard it all - from take the heads off and mill them, take the heads off and sell them and get Patriot 230cc's, to get rockers, and there has been more than a couple of reasonable people that say my cam is plenty big for the size of this truck (4700lbs).
Just to clear things up, here is my complete mod list:
SW LT headers with ORY
10.4mm Taylor wires
NGK TR55s
K&N CAI
Magnaflow catback with e-cutout
Custom cam
Portmatched intake manifold by Tony Mamo
AFR 205cc heads 66cc combustion chamber
.045 cometic gaskets
Open to comments and suggestions for cam changes or anything else to make the power!
Thanks in advance.
Todd
Last edited by VTODD; 11-08-2006 at 02:49 PM. Reason: misleading title
11-08-2006, 01:33 PM
#2
That is about right since you still have the small cam. The stock truck intake maninfold is not helping those heads either. You need a bigger cam (Both duration and lift), more compression (thinner head gasket or mill the heads). Then see where you are. You may or may not need a different intake manifold depending on your goals.
11-08-2006, 01:35 PM
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First off....the diablo handheld tuner is not ideal for tuning....so I imagine you are leaving some on the table there.
Also, that is quite a small cam you got there, and subsiquently is not going to be a power monster.
The stock stall is not helping either.
I say all in all....you need to finish building the truck. It has a lot of unfinished stuff that can be upgraded to see the gains that you were probably hoping for.
Hope this helps
Also, that is quite a small cam you got there, and subsiquently is not going to be a power monster.
The stock stall is not helping either.
I say all in all....you need to finish building the truck. It has a lot of unfinished stuff that can be upgraded to see the gains that you were probably hoping for.
Hope this helps
11-08-2006, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by mike#9
First off....the diablo handheld tuner is not ideal for tuning....so I imagine you are leaving some on the table there.
Also, that is quite a small cam you got there, and subsiquently is not going to be a power monster.
The stock stall is not helping either.
I say all in all....you need to finish building the truck. It has a lot of unfinished stuff that can be upgraded to see the gains that you were probably hoping for.
Hope this helps
Also, that is quite a small cam you got there, and subsiquently is not going to be a power monster.
The stock stall is not helping either.
I say all in all....you need to finish building the truck. It has a lot of unfinished stuff that can be upgraded to see the gains that you were probably hoping for.
Hope this helps
11-08-2006, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by 8GTOKLR
I didnt see Long Tubes or Mids listed, there is some power, Hp tuner will help most
Is the CMR interface that bad???
Todd
11-08-2006, 02:05 PM
#7
The pertinent info missing here is that with the bolt-on's mentioned above there was a gain of 80 RWHP and about the same gains in TQ as well (same dyno before and after).
IMO that is about all you could ask for considering what was swapped and the fact the truck still drives like stock....obviously the heavier driveline isnt contributing (or helping) hero numbers on the chassis dyno.
Think about the slightly larger cam we spoke about....it will help the HP numbers and still be very drivable.
That's a big number for an extremely mild mannered stock 6.0 litre truck to be laying down to the back wheels....plus you know on another local dyno the numbers were 10 higher....put in the bigger cam and go back to that dyno and the 400 # you are in search of (you know its true....lol) will be a little bit easier to achieve.
Tony M.
IMO that is about all you could ask for considering what was swapped and the fact the truck still drives like stock....obviously the heavier driveline isnt contributing (or helping) hero numbers on the chassis dyno.
Think about the slightly larger cam we spoke about....it will help the HP numbers and still be very drivable.
That's a big number for an extremely mild mannered stock 6.0 litre truck to be laying down to the back wheels....plus you know on another local dyno the numbers were 10 higher....put in the bigger cam and go back to that dyno and the 400 # you are in search of (you know its true....lol) will be a little bit easier to achieve.
Tony M.
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11-08-2006, 02:22 PM
#8
Originally Posted by Tony Mamo @ AFR
The pertinent info missing here is that with the bolt-on's mentioned above there was a gain of 80 RWHP and about the same gains in TQ as well (same dyno before and after).
Yeah? You think that's important?Just a little.
It's also funny that he chose the dyno with ~10 less HP...
So, this thread's topic should be "WOW! I made 80 RWHP more with with AFR heads, bolt-ons, and a cam the same relative size as a 2 inch *****!!! Thanks AFR!!!"
I could swear AFR was running for office or something with all the mud thrown at them.
By the way, I'm not an AFR guy because I don't have the money. I'll probably go with PRCs. Had the money, I'd be hard pressed not to at least consider TFS.
11-08-2006, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Tony Mamo @ AFR
The pertinent info missing here is that with the bolt-on's mentioned above there was a gain of 80 RWHP and about the same gains in TQ as well (same dyno before and after).
IMO that is about all you could ask for considering what was swapped and the fact the truck still drives like stock....obviously the heavier driveline isnt contributing (or helping) hero numbers on the chassis dyno.
Think about the slightly larger cam we spoke about....it will help the HP numbers and still be very drivable.
That's a big number for an extremely mild mannered stock 6.0 litre truck to be laying down to the back wheels....plus you know on another local dyno the numbers were 10 higher....put in the bigger cam and go back to that dyno and the 400 # you are in search of (you know its true....lol) will be a little bit easier to achieve.
Tony M.
IMO that is about all you could ask for considering what was swapped and the fact the truck still drives like stock....obviously the heavier driveline isnt contributing (or helping) hero numbers on the chassis dyno.
Think about the slightly larger cam we spoke about....it will help the HP numbers and still be very drivable.
That's a big number for an extremely mild mannered stock 6.0 litre truck to be laying down to the back wheels....plus you know on another local dyno the numbers were 10 higher....put in the bigger cam and go back to that dyno and the 400 # you are in search of (you know its true....lol) will be a little bit easier to achieve.
Tony M.
By me posting this, I WAS NOT calling out AFR. I am very sorry if it came out like that. I just reread the title, and it can appear misleading like "whats wrong with my heads?" Definatly not the case. I just want solutions, whether it be a cam all the way to electric fans, whatever, to get a little more out of my setup (likely a bigger cam, lol and like you said 400
). Naturally, I get a bit in the "WTF" mode when I see two other TBSS with only a cam 220/224 .560 lift and headers make the 400 mark.
By the way, thanks again, Tony, for all the help and late night tuning solutions. Lol, we wouldn't of even made the 370/379 w/o Tony! You have been very helpful, and I have nothing but respect for you.
Now, somebody dish me out that "big" cam specs so I can put my dyno queen mask on and hit 400 lol.
Todd
11-08-2006, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Sharpe
Oh my god! Yeah? You think that's important?
Just a little.
It's also funny that he chose the dyno with ~10 less HP...
So, this thread's topic should be "WOW! I made 80 RWHP more with with AFR heads, bolt-ons, and a cam the same relative size as a 2 inch *****!!! Thanks AFR!!!"
I could swear AFR was running for office or something with all the mud thrown at them.
By the way, I'm not an AFR guy because I don't have the money. I'll probably go with PRCs. Had the money, I'd be hard pressed not to at least consider TFS.
Yeah? You think that's important?Just a little.
It's also funny that he chose the dyno with ~10 less HP...
So, this thread's topic should be "WOW! I made 80 RWHP more with with AFR heads, bolt-ons, and a cam the same relative size as a 2 inch *****!!! Thanks AFR!!!"
I could swear AFR was running for office or something with all the mud thrown at them.
By the way, I'm not an AFR guy because I don't have the money. I'll probably go with PRCs. Had the money, I'd be hard pressed not to at least consider TFS.
I can promise you this thread is not intended at slandering or questioning AFR at all! I would buy their heads again!
I would also like to add that it drives great, and you can feel a definate increase in torque. There is no question that it feels better. Lol, I just want more with a different cam, thats all.
Todd
Last edited by VTODD; 11-08-2006 at 02:56 PM.
11-08-2006, 02:41 PM
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Actually, if any moderator sees this, I would like to change my title. I can completely see how my careless title can look negative towards AFR. Not my intention.
New title of
"Help me select the right cam for my AFRs, please"
Sorry again AFR, totally not what I was trying at.
Todd
New title of
"Help me select the right cam for my AFRs, please"
Sorry again AFR, totally not what I was trying at.
Todd
11-08-2006, 03:35 PM
#12
a huge/bigger cam will boost your peak hp#'s, but at the loss of low end/mid range tq that is needed to move that heavy truck with the stock stall will prolly slow it down.
run it and see how you like it before putting a bigger cam in it!!
run it and see how you like it before putting a bigger cam in it!!
11-08-2006, 03:45 PM
#14
Todd...
It's all good man...dont get hung up on the numbers.
Look at what you baselined and what you gained and determine where to go from there. You might roll up on one of those other 400 RWHP trucks and put two car lengths on them....you just never know. Numbers are numbers and they vary from place to place (and thats without any questionable dyno info that occasionally finds its way out there).
It was fun hearing your enthusiam on your cell phone the first time you nailed it and I happened to be speaking with you....thats what all the money and BS we deal with along the way is ultimately meant to achieve.
Put the bigger stick in and go back to the slightly friendlier dyno....and in the mean time just enjoy what you have. That thing sounded pretty nasty on this end of the phone when I heard you get on it a few times....go mess with a few stock or slightly modified mustangs and ruin their day. That should bring a smile to your face
Later,
Tony
It's all good man...dont get hung up on the numbers.
Look at what you baselined and what you gained and determine where to go from there. You might roll up on one of those other 400 RWHP trucks and put two car lengths on them....you just never know. Numbers are numbers and they vary from place to place (and thats without any questionable dyno info that occasionally finds its way out there).
It was fun hearing your enthusiam on your cell phone the first time you nailed it and I happened to be speaking with you....thats what all the money and BS we deal with along the way is ultimately meant to achieve.
Put the bigger stick in and go back to the slightly friendlier dyno....and in the mean time just enjoy what you have. That thing sounded pretty nasty on this end of the phone when I heard you get on it a few times....go mess with a few stock or slightly modified mustangs and ruin their day. That should bring a smile to your face
Later,
Tony
Last edited by Tony Mamo @ AFR; 11-08-2006 at 03:59 PM.
11-08-2006, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Tony Mamo @ AFR
Todd...
It's all good man...dont get hung up on the numbers.
Look at what you baselined and what you gained and determine where to go from there. You might roll up on one of those other 400 RWHP trucks and put two car lengths on one of them. Numbers are numbers and they vary from place to place (and thats without any questionable dyno info that occasionally finds its way out there).
It was fun hearing your enthusiam on your cell phone the first time you nailed it and I happened to be speaking with you....thats what all the money and BS we deal with along the way is ultimately meant to achieve.
Put the bigger stick in and go back to the slightly friendlier dyno....and in the mean time just enjoy what you have. That thing sounded pretty nasty on this end of the phone when I heard you get on it a few times....go mess with a few stock or slightly modified mustangs and ruin their day. That should bring a smile to your face
Later,
Tony
It's all good man...dont get hung up on the numbers.
Look at what you baselined and what you gained and determine where to go from there. You might roll up on one of those other 400 RWHP trucks and put two car lengths on one of them. Numbers are numbers and they vary from place to place (and thats without any questionable dyno info that occasionally finds its way out there).
It was fun hearing your enthusiam on your cell phone the first time you nailed it and I happened to be speaking with you....thats what all the money and BS we deal with along the way is ultimately meant to achieve.
Put the bigger stick in and go back to the slightly friendlier dyno....and in the mean time just enjoy what you have. That thing sounded pretty nasty on this end of the phone when I heard you get on it a few times....go mess with a few stock or slightly modified mustangs and ruin their day. That should bring a smile to your face
Later,
Tony
Your damn right I am going to enjoy it, because there is plenty of enjoying to do. I am in no rush to get the bigger cam in. Yea, I will eventually get a bigger cam with a moderate stall, but there is alot to enjoy during the interim. I wish a track was open nearby so that I could run it, but my current applicaton will likely never see the track. I will have the bigger cam and a stall in by then. I am still open to cam suggestions or any suggestions for that matter. I am all ears. With some of you mentioning getting this tuned with HPtuners, I may think about finding somewhere nearby to re-tune it too. Won't hurt, to say the least. I know of Speed Inc., but they are 4 hours drive away. What is close to Decatur, IL?
Thanks!
Todd
11-08-2006, 04:58 PM
#17
Originally Posted by VTODD
Or I should of titled the thread "Wow, my cam sucks and two other TBSS's made 400rwhp/tq with just a bit bigger cam and headers!"
I can promise you this thread is not intended at slandering or questioning AFR at all! I would buy their heads again!
I would also like to add that it drives great, and you can feel a definate increase in torque. There is no question that it feels better. Lol, I just want more with a different cam, thats all.
Todd
I can promise you this thread is not intended at slandering or questioning AFR at all! I would buy their heads again!
I would also like to add that it drives great, and you can feel a definate increase in torque. There is no question that it feels better. Lol, I just want more with a different cam, thats all.
Todd
11-08-2006, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Sharpe
Sorry if I came off a little harsh. So many people are bad mouthing reputable companys on here lately with little to no good reason. Cheers.
11-08-2006, 06:29 PM
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well the tony /afr 224/228 on xer lobes on something like a 110 would still make great tq and should easily put you over the 400 mark.of course the 110 will probably need a great tune but it would be a sweet combo once dialed in.along with something like a 2800-3200 stall also.
11-08-2006, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by slow trap
well the tony /afr 224/228 on xer lobes on something like a 110 would still make great tq and should easily put you over the 400 mark.of course the 110 will probably need a great tune but it would be a sweet combo once dialed in.along with something like a 2800-3200 stall also.
todd
