pdanrichey

iTrader: (4)

I want to run between 6 and 8 psi.

If I use my HP Tuners, I know I have to buy the 2 bar tuning OS along with a MAP sensor and then I can tune it myself for 6-8psi...hopefully. This method however is MAF-LESS. I'm unfamiliar with SD tuning and I'm a little hesitant to start jacking around with the car after investing so much money into making it faster. The last thing I need is to blow something up!

If I decide to take the car to a professional dyno tuner, can they tune the car for 8psi using the MAF, or is 6psi some kind of magical number for our cars and you must switch to SD? This shiznit just keeps adding the $$$ up .

foff667

iTrader: (2)

most of what your asking about can be found here http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9143 our custom operating systems give you much more constant fueling rather then just fudging things along your RPM/MAP bands. Unless your tuner is going to us a 2 or 3 bar custom OS he too will run into the same issues, it might idle correctly & it might even be on target at WOT but everything in between will be lacking.

Country Boy

iTrader: (24)

Id go SD. I like it. Takes out one more varible.

smokinHawk

iTrader: (48)

if your planing on running less then 550rwhp id just stay with the MAF
unless you got money to burn

pdanrichey

iTrader: (4)

So, how much $$ do I have to throw at this to make the problem go away??
I seriously never thought it would be this big of a deal. The "Nelson" tunes cost about $500+ but I think they simply allow for (one) PSI amount to be tuned. So, what if I want to increase or decrease (not likely) the amount of boost I run. They may re-charge me for a re-tune...and I'm not going to pay for the same service over and over again just because the weather changes!

With SD, I just run the pipe into the TB and the MAP sensor controls it all based on my tune?

I'm starting to hate my life guys!

foff667, does HP tuners sell the MAP sensor?

foff667

iTrader: (2)

the great thing about our custom OS is we added a boost enrichment table so that you can run 5psi at say 12.3:1 a/f or run 15psi at 11.7:1 if you want without having to change tunes.

We do not sell MAP sensors, but you can get them through summit racing or gmpartsdirect

THE_SUPRA

could pdanrichey just tune the car to run at say 6psi for time being then buy the MAP sensor and use HPtuners to play with a speed density setup. or will he have to get a "piggyback" (like MAPECU) ecu to run speed density?

foff667

iTrader: (2)

SD is just a mode the vehicle goes into when the maf is disabled or disconnected, nothing more. Unplug your maf, your in speed density. HPTuners has modified the stock computer/operating system so that when you do go into speed density you'll utilize both high/low octane tables, it deletes any secondary VE tables the vehicle may have had previously and also adds a boost enrichment table for multiple boost levels. They also extend the stock VE table to show boost regions...in reality you could run a 2 or 3 bar map on the stock operating system but its alot of work and there are very few people who have a good grasp on exactly how to do it, not only that but you loose resolution, AND ALOT OF IT. HPTuners gives you all that resolution back & then some which means more accurate fueling, with none of the downsides to running Speed Density.

pdanrichey

iTrader: (4)

foff, can't I just pay you some money to come with a pimp tune for me??!!

foff667

iTrader: (2)

I rarely do mail/email tunes for people, and I would never do a 2 or 3 bar custom OS tune without the car present.

SSpdDmon

iTrader: (10)

You might be able to get away with a MAF tune. Usually, 8psi is coming close to the limits of the stock MAF. I'd get it tuned for the 8psi and leave it there either way. Why spend all the money for the power and then not use it. It's not like you're going to floor it everywhere you go.

pdanrichey

iTrader: (4)

I see what you're saying SSpdDmon. I would like to find a shop around DFW that uses HP Tuners though to dyno tune. That way, maybe I can learn a thing or two and not suck at this program so much!

After considering all this, I remember reading posts about what the stock MAF is capable of tuning for. I think the number was around 550rwhp+??? I only want to rund about 6psi right now, even though my setup is capable of 8+psi. Once I get some more cash together, I can beef up the rest of the car, and then I'll consider going higher into the boost levels.

For now, I just can't justify spending hours of time to do something for myself and it end up being wrong, which of course leads to other problems such as destroyed engines.

J-Rod

For boosted apps I'm all for ditching the MAF. There are much better tools avaliable to us now, but my buddies in Australia threw away the MAF and went SD years ago especially in boosted apps, they consider it a requirement.

The 2/3bar custom os is even better still. I agree with foff667 on mail order tunes also. For a boosted app, its essential to have the car in front of you. Its also important to have a load dyno like a dyno dynamics dyno or a Mustang, or plan on doing some street driving...

pdanrichey

iTrader: (4)

I appreciate the insight y'all have given. For now, what I need to know is: Can my stock MAF handle upto 500rwhp using a boosted application...between 6 - 8psi? If it can and I won't have drivability issues, I'm going to just go with that...for now. When I'm ready, I can always make the switch and up the power.

SSpdDmon

iTrader: (10)

Yes, the stock MAF will handle 6psi. Magnacharged setups run 7psi and still keep the MAF. At least, Lingenfelter tuned my dad's C5 with it still in place. Just know that there are differences in the way people believe is the "right" way to tune a car. Personally, I have no preference. Yes, it's nice to see commanded AFR's equal actual AFR's along with the ideal injector table working. But sometimes, I also believe there are proven ways that have been working for ~10 years that tuners still use today. People on this board may not agree with those methods....but they do work. IMO, I think it's wise to learn both ways and take the positives from both. That way, you can tune your car well in a short amount of time and enjoy it the rest of the time.

foff667

iTrader: (2)

the problem with that thinking is that up until 2 years ago there were no custom OS's which help alot in this whole process, but you can ask many of premier tuners of the last 10 years & most of them will tell you they've done 2 and 3 bar SD tunes on blower cars at one point or another with the stock operating system rather then using the maf.

Yes you can get away with running a maf just fine, but technology has come along way, why not take advantage of it if its there for the taking?

In hptuners case you get real time tuning with nearly every custom operating system we offer which in itself should be worth the upgrade.

Bottom line is though I hate seeing someone spend $5000 or $10000 on an engine/turbo/supercharger whatever and then nickle & dime something at the end...you see it all the time with people fighting tooth & nail about buying a $199 wideband & now to see it with a $100 custom OS & a $50 map sensor. You wouldnt tell someone to tune his boosted motor with his stock O2's right? Why then tell him to tune it with an operating system that truely wasnt designed for boost?

pdanrichey

iTrader: (4)

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

So, what I'm going to do is use an LS1tech sponsor to tune my car. They actually use HP Tuners to do it and that's one of the reasons that I decided to do this. I'm going to stick with my MAF for now and have them tune the car for about 6.5psi. That should put down some respectable numbers and I'm positive I'll be pleased with the results.

They'll tune the car, I can save it on my laptop, then down the road, I'll upgrade to SD with the 2 or 3 bar setup and I can retune my car to support more boost.

Also, I just got my AEM Wideband kit...I'm going to put it on this weekend. I'm curious to see what my AFR is with my current tune (mucho advanced timing )

Frost

iTrader: (45)

Keep the MAF... I still have mine on the car and I'm up to 15.5ish lbs of boost. It's true that it's maxed waaaay early, but until I have some time to start playing with 3-bar it's gonna stay that way. From about 10-11 psi up to full boost I'm running blind, so there has to be enough fuel there to support the highest level of boost that I intend to run. It also means I'm overfueling in between those areas, but that's the trade. I wouldn't ditch my MAF if it wasn't maxing out, and I'd consider keeping it if I were just on the edge of it as well. Good luck.

SSpdDmon

iTrader: (10)

I'm sorry, but this made me laugh. The MAF sensor is the more recent technology. Why would you want to avoid using it unless your outside it's range of operation. Why do Ford guys go to a better MAF with the '03/'04 Cobras when they up the boost? Are they running some technologically advanced hyper-MAF sensor???

My point was....in the end, the motor runs on three fundamental principles...air, spark, and fuel. You don't need custom operating systems and 2/3 bar map sensors until you cross the threshold of their stock counterparts max performance. At 6.5psi, I don't think he'll cross that threshold.

We spend so much time worrying about the numbers matching between the WBO2 and the PCM. Why? If you take a step back, the real important thing is making the car run strong, safe and consistent. If you can do that with OR without the custom OS and the other map sensors, what does it really matter???