Tranny failure (pics inside)
12-16-2006, 04:54 PM
#1
Tranny failure (pics inside) What do you think?????????
broken ring retainers.... need a new input shaft!!!!!!!
Bent to hell= no good junk
Sunshell still in tranny, got disgusted with all the broken parts and stopped disassembly......
What do you think caused this???? Shift points are at 6k 1-2, 5.9k 2-3, 5.9k 3-4...... I think that stock trannies are junk!!!!!! Ohhh well, I guess I need to order more parts.
broken ring retainers.... need a new input shaft!!!!!!!
Bent to hell= no good junk
Sunshell still in tranny, got disgusted with all the broken parts and stopped disassembly......
What do you think caused this???? Shift points are at 6k 1-2, 5.9k 2-3, 5.9k 3-4...... I think that stock trannies are junk!!!!!! Ohhh well, I guess I need to order more parts.
12-16-2006, 05:48 PM
#3
Originally Posted by ls1pwrdss
yeah the stock sun shells are crap. you need to upgrade to whats called the beast sunshell. with that you should not have any further problems
I think that the suunshell failed and took the reverse drum and input clutch hub= chain reaction. I think that the planetaries are still good, if they check out, I'll probably reuse them.
12-16-2006, 06:05 PM
#6
Originally Posted by performabuilt
Yes i would agree the sun shell broke and that is not the worst but one of the worst i have ever seen
This was kinda hard to get apart because the sunshell and reverse drum were binded up. The ATSG manual makes the 4L60E look simple, so far it has been easy. Reassembly will be the test, but can't be much more difficult....
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12-16-2006, 06:28 PM
#9
Originally Posted by ls1pwrdss
upgrade to the panetaires out of the 4l65-e they have 5 gears instead of 4 and there not that expensive
They aren't exactly giving away the OEM 5 pinion planetaries either. Steer clear of the aftermarket ones. The OEM 4 pinion planetaries are stronger than the aftermarket 5 pinion planetaries.
12-16-2006, 06:47 PM
#10
Take a close look at the reverse input drum, do the engagement teeth (the teeth that contact the sun shell) are they "bowed" outward? If they are bowed outward, you will have to replace the reverse input drum. Then if you look closely at the input sprag, you will find that there was more than the normal wear. When the sprag slips excessively, the reverse input drum & the sunshell can go to a very high rpm from the sprag slipping, and the results are what you are seeing. I would go with a new GM complete input sprag assembly, they use the 29 element low drag Raybestos sprag. You will need another input drum, as I see that there are teeth missing where the 3-4 snap ring fits. You will have to inspect everything very closely, for metal damage. This problem has nothing to do with what sunshell is being used. If the groove in your case is not too deep, and there are no visible cracks (check closely inside & outside) then you should be able to use the case again.
12-16-2006, 06:56 PM
#11
Case is good, however the sprag is one of the parts that I will be replacing along with everything pictured. If the plantetaries check out, close to tighter tolerances, I will reuse them. If they don't check out to my satisfaction, then I will upgrade to the OEM 5 pinion planetaries and check them with a feeler gauge as well. Sometimes new parts can be borderline close tolerance or even too loose tolerance. I will build this tranny as close to tighter recommended tolerances as possible, even if it means sending parts back to manufacturers. I am in no rush, this is a learning experience for me. This 4L60E is popping my cherry. My 1st auto rebuild. So far it is much easier than I thought.
12-16-2006, 11:02 PM
#12
Originally Posted by ls1pwrdss
upgrade to the panetaires out of the 4l65-e they have 5 gears instead of 5 and there not that expensive
12-16-2006, 11:47 PM
#13
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Originally Posted by ls1pwrdss
yeah the stock sun shells are crap. you need to upgrade to whats called the beast sunshell. with that you should not have any further problems
yeah, I just broke my Planet and I'm upgrading ALL the gears in my tranny....
I also have the beast shell.
12-17-2006, 06:45 AM
#14
If your 4 pinion planetaries are good, don't waste your money on the 5 pinion. The 4 do just fine. I rarely see them break, and I have never had one break in my performance units, were talking 9, 10, & 11 second vehicles all with 4 pinion planetaries.
Last edited by PBA; 12-17-2006 at 05:15 PM.
12-17-2006, 08:41 AM
#15
By looking at your pictures it appears that the lugs for the 3-4 clutch pack broke. I have seen this before with almost the same failure as the pictures you've posted. I believe what happens is it binds the sunshell to the case and then rips it from the reverse input drum. I do agree with what PBA has posted about upgrading the input sprag assembly. However I prefer the Borg sprag over the SKF sprag. I have seen alot of the skf sprags rolled over and have had better success with the Borg Warner sprag. Just my opinion here and good luck with your build. Vince
12-17-2006, 04:40 PM
#16
Originally Posted by Vince @ FLT
By looking at your pictures it appears that the lugs for the 3-4 clutch pack broke. I have seen this before with almost the same failure as the pictures you've posted. I believe what happens is it binds the sunshell to the case and then rips it from the reverse input drum. I do agree with what PBA has posted about upgrading the input sprag assembly. However I prefer the Borg sprag over the SKF sprag. I have seen alot of the skf sprags rolled over and have had better success with the Borg Warner sprag. Just my opinion here and good luck with your build. Vince
Thanks Vince, does FLT sell the reverse input drum???? I couldn't find it on your site. Looks like I'll be placing an order for a few parts later this week.
12-17-2006, 07:12 PM
#17
Originally Posted by Vince @ FLT
... However I prefer the Borg sprag over the SKF sprag. I have seen alot of the skf sprags rolled over and have had better success with the Borg Warner sprag. Just my opinion here and good luck with your build. Vince
Are you going to replace all of the rubber seals and bushings while you are in there? I would recommend it.
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12-17-2006, 08:11 PM
#19
The late oem low roller sprag has never been a problem. Vince likes the BW input sprags, because of what "he" has seen. I prefer the SKF's from what I have seen in these units over the years. So am I right or is Vince correct here? It is preference, based on "personal experience". As anyone should have noticed, both of us build very durable units.
