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I want just a bit more grunt

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Old 12-18-2006, 03:59 PM
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Default I want just a bit more grunt

I primarily autocross and attend an HPDE maybe once a year. In autocross, I shift into 2nd gear early most times because 1st gear is unusable due to lack of traction. But 2nd gear is a bit anemic in the lower RPM's. So I'm trying to add some useable power.

- I've got 3.73's, and my rev limit is 7200. I don't want to install shorter gears and cause more shifting, thus reducing top speed in each gear
- I'm open to switching cams, but I've had lots of pain with broken valvesprings in the past and am not convinced I can get the grunt I want without replacing valvesprings annually as a result of a cam which is too aggressive
- I considered a 383ci LS1 or L92/L76 combo briefly, but traction would be an even bigger issue

I feel I must replace my Grot headers due to the cracks inside the collector and wanting accurate wbo2 readings. I haven't really narrowed down why I should pick ARH/QTP/Kooks, but it'd be sweet if Louis got those LGM headers finished

So short of gears, what's the best bang for the buck? I'm not against installing a ported Fast 90 & NW 90 TB, but (when Search works) there's discussion of how radical a heads/cam needs to be to make the Fast90 expenditure worthwhile. I'm also wondering if paying 2-3x for a 'Mamofied' Fast 90 porting is worth it over another sponsors porting.

I've got CNC'd '98 heads so they're not state of the art - and in fact they have been repaired a few times (see valvespring concerns earlier). I'm not even sure if my cam is 'big enough' to be worthwhile for the Fast 90. The cam is a 228/228/575/575 114LSA.

I'm am going through oil much faster the last two months than previously noted, but am trying to isolate the issue. That was a tangent to justifying a different block.
Old 12-19-2006, 12:38 AM
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Id try a cam biased toward morw low end tq. 228/232 on a 110+2 makes serious tq down low and carries the power all the way to 6500. Its on xer lobes so valve spring replacement wont need to happen but once every couple years w/ a good set of dual springs.
Old 12-19-2006, 03:34 AM
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Blower cams seem to be a good choice as well. Or traditional splits.
Old 12-19-2006, 03:35 AM
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Moving to Internal
Old 12-19-2006, 09:47 AM
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Thats a provocative thread title
Old 12-19-2006, 09:54 AM
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Don't you have anything constructive to do at your shop?
Old 12-19-2006, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by cenTX-LS1
Id try a cam biased toward morw low end tq. 228/232 on a 110+2 makes serious tq down low and carries the power all the way to 6500. Its on xer lobes so valve spring replacement wont need to happen but once every couple years w/ a good set of dual springs.


Hey, this is what i'm actually thinking about for my car, can you tell me more about this spec cam? Who would you have grind it?
Old 12-19-2006, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by JimMueller
Don't you have anything constructive to do at your shop?
Don't you have anything more productive to do while on your company's timeclock?
Old 12-19-2006, 05:08 PM
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So getting off our tangent, I've got 918's now and would prefer to stick with them for simplicity. If that means running a less aggressive ramp rate, that's fine. I never planned on using XE-R lobes much less anything steeper.
Old 12-19-2006, 09:15 PM
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With my setup 2nd gear is FAR from anemic. I have AFR 205s milled for ~11.34 CR and am using the thinner cometic .040 gaskets. My cam is similar to yours, 228/230 114+1. I do however have 4.10s, but my 2nd gear is stout as hell.

BTW, taking it to 7200 seems too high. Mine peaks at 6400 and I have found the best results having the shift lite set to 6700, so the actual shift is made a bit after that, but I do shift rather quick. I gained over the 6600 setting and at 6900 it slowed down.

Good luck with your setup.
Old 12-19-2006, 10:27 PM
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I wouldn't consider my setup the proper combination. Used shortblock which included a 'nitrous' cam mated with '98 ported heads which have been repaired 2-3 times.

I run it to 7200 because a) my bottom end allows me and b) I've always believed in using torque multiplication to justify when to shift. i.e., if final gear ratio X tranny gear ratio X torque is higher than it is after shifting, why shift?
Old 01-03-2007, 01:03 AM
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After much thought, I'm close to pulling the trigger on this combo, with much selection help from Patrick G. This is my checklist so far:
Code:
Part No.	Qty	Description

	        1	Patrick G Custom cam
199-PRC2.55.3	1	PRC 220cc 5.3L Stage 2.5 CNC Ported Heads (2.02 intake, 61cc)
88958689	1	GM CTS-V Racing lifters
99-PR7400	1	Chrome-Moly Pushrods, 7.400"  (kit)
119-C5475-040	2	Cometic MLS Cylinder Head Gasket,LS1 Engine, .040 thickness, 3.910 bore (sold individually)
12498545	2	GM Head bolt kit
72-M9593B302 	1	Ford Motorsport Fuel Injectors, 30 lb. 
12586482	8	NGK TR6 spark plugs
12570427	1	LH Center-bolt valve cover
12582224	1	RH center-bolt valve cover
12560696	1	Valve cover gasket kit
12577215	8	Valve cover bolts
12563288	2	Ignition coil bracket
12561244	1	Front engine seal
12554211	1	Ignition coil bracket stud
I'm paranoid about leaking Cometics, but I'd rather pay $220 for the lifters than $240 for the ARP bolts. Comments or corrections? I may yet tack on new QTP's and engine mounts while down there.
Old 01-03-2007, 09:01 AM
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If you plan on swapping heads more than once, the ARP head stud kit is something worth considering since they're completely re-usable...can't say that about the factory torque-to-yield bolts. If your motor has a lot of miles, then a fresh set of lifters is money well invested.
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Old 01-03-2007, 10:53 AM
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I don't plan on swapping heads again (I've had this set for almost 8 years). The Comp OEM lifters are at most 2 years old, maybe 10-15K miles. I'd only be swapping them if the proposed .6xx lift will be too much for them.

Are the Mr. Gasket head gaskets the only alternative .04x gasket available? I'm really leaning towards a 59cc chamber and OEM gaskets. I'm also going to skip the injectors for now.
Old 01-03-2007, 11:36 AM
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I like it all except the factory head bolts. Get the ARP bolts if you don't want to spend for the studs. It will save the installer time and aggrivation by allowing for a standard torque wrench instead of the TTY
Old 01-03-2007, 12:14 PM
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Well, Comp doesn't recommend using the 850-16 lifters with the LSK lobes with .600+ lift. They say if I turn any serious kind of RPM I'll hurt the lifters. They recommended their R lifters, which doesn't appear to have good reputation, around here at least.
Old 01-03-2007, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by JimMueller
I primarily autocross and attend an HPDE maybe once a year. In autocross, I shift into 2nd gear early most times because 1st gear is unusable due to lack of traction. But 2nd gear is a bit anemic in the lower RPM's. So I'm trying to add some useable power.

- I've got 3.73's, and my rev limit is 7200. I don't want to install shorter gears and cause more shifting, thus reducing top speed in each gear
- I'm open to switching cams, but I've had lots of pain with broken valvesprings in the past and am not convinced I can get the grunt I want without replacing valvesprings annually as a result of a cam which is too aggressive
- I considered a 383ci LS1 or L92/L76 combo briefly, but traction would be an even bigger issue

I feel I must replace my Grot headers due to the cracks inside the collector and wanting accurate wbo2 readings. I haven't really narrowed down why I should pick ARH/QTP/Kooks, but it'd be sweet if Louis got those LGM headers finished

So short of gears, what's the best bang for the buck? I'm not against installing a ported Fast 90 & NW 90 TB, but (when Search works) there's discussion of how radical a heads/cam needs to be to make the Fast90 expenditure worthwhile. I'm also wondering if paying 2-3x for a 'Mamofied' Fast 90 porting is worth it over another sponsors porting.

I've got CNC'd '98 heads so they're not state of the art - and in fact they have been repaired a few times (see valvespring concerns earlier). I'm not even sure if my cam is 'big enough' to be worthwhile for the Fast 90. The cam is a 228/228/575/575 114LSA.

I'm am going through oil much faster the last two months than previously noted, but am trying to isolate the issue. That was a tangent to justifying a different block.
Save some money and just get some GOOD tires. Sounds like that would fix your issue.
Old 01-03-2007, 02:30 PM
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I tried new 315/35/17 Kumho V710's and Dunlop 290/645/R17 slicks, neither solved the traction issue in first gear. I don't have a traction problem in 2nd gear at low RPM, how would tires fix that?
Old 01-03-2007, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by JimMueller
Well, Comp doesn't recommend using the 850-16 lifters with the LSK lobes with .600+ lift. They say if I turn any serious kind of RPM I'll hurt the lifters. They recommended their R lifters, which doesn't appear to have good reputation, around here at least.
Get a set of the GMPP Caddy racing lifters from Scoggins-Dickey. $217 a set, they are good for high rpm.
Old 01-03-2007, 04:59 PM
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When I blew my head gasket, the water pump was upgraded to the LS2 version. Are those gaskets re-useable?

Updated:
Code:
Part No.	Qty	Description

	        1	Patrick G Custom cam
199-PRC2.55.3	1	PRC 220cc 5.3L Stage 2.5 Heads (2.02 intake, 59cc)
88958689	1	GM CTS-V Racing lifters (kit)
                1	Chrome-Moly Pushrods, 7.400"  (kit) (may have now)
                1 	GM head gasket set
                1	ARP head bolts (kit)
                8       NGK TR6 spark plugs (.045 gap)
12570427	1	LH Center-bolt valve cover
12582224	1	RH center-bolt valve cover
12560696	1	Valve cover gasket kit
12577215	8	Valve cover bolts
12563288	2	Ignition coil bracket
12561244	1	Front engine seal
12554211	1	Ignition coil bracket stud


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