BOWTIE

Well I am just about ready to pull the trigger on a purchase and wanted to run it by here first for a sanity check. I am leaning towards the TSP stage 2.5 5.3 heads and their Torquer V3 camshaft. I was strongly considering Patricks cam but with the discounted prices TSP is offering I thought the V3 would make a good compromise. I was considering going with some high dollar heads (AFR's or TFS's) and a custom cam, but have decided to go the less expensive route instead because I still want to build a bigger motor in the future and will most likely go a completely different route with those heads at that time. However I still need something now since I am fairly certain my valves made good friends with a few pistons during a missed shift at the track last season. So anyway, what do you guys think? Also, does anybody have any idea how far I could mill these before running into P/V clearance issues? TIA

Screamin_Z

iTrader: (2)

Trick Flow...IMO better than AFRs. but that's not what ur asking.

go for it, it's cheap. can't answer ur PTV clearance question tho...

BOWTIE

TTT, anyone else with some recommendations on this swap. I will check with TSP before making the purchase, but was just wanting to get some unbiased opinions. What do you think of this selection for a low buck swap, and how much should I try to get the heads milled.

KingSS

iTrader: (1)

TSP 2.5 5.3 + Cam = $1575.00, IMO that is by far the best bang for your buck right now. Those heads are flowing 312 cfm@.600", for 1575 that is by far the best deal. I put those same heads on my car with the MS3 and made 460rwhp through an ls6 intake. You might not even need to get the ehads milled since they come with a 62cc chamber.

Hype

It sounds like a good combo to me. I just have to think, a cam is possibly the biggest contributer to how your car drives/idles. I would think $100-200 more for a custom cam that is designed for your goals would be worth the price of admission. I've heard good things about those budget heads though.

Gannet

I think if you ask you'll find that the extra cost of a custom cam is very small. I asked another popular Texas vendor and the extra cost for a custom Comp over their regular grinds was $10.

BOWTIE

Well while I somewhat agree with you guys about the cam being the most important aspect of the combo, I somewhat disagree with the notion everyone needs their own custom grind. Afterall, most of the cams offered by the shops that specialize in LSX motors were at one time custom grinds. If, however, they worked well and made good numbers then they become a stocked cam. The way I see it they have a lot more time, and resources to create a cam that works well not to mention the possible reward they receive if they get it right than I do. Now that said, it does sort of suprise me that it took them as long as it did to stumble onto the lower LSA and valve timing events to maximize the power curve like they have and I would like to think some of that is a direct result of some hard work and experimentation by some of our own members (Patrick G comes to mind). But now that they all seem to be onboard they all seem to be creating cams very similar to each other. The V3 appears to be either identical or almost identical to the TRAK cam except with 1 deg less LSA. Anyway, I do not really think I would have much to gain if any going with a custom grind which for me would not really be a custom grind anyway but rather a cam someone else had custom ground and had good results. One thing I am a little curious about though is whether or not to advance this cam any. I guess I could go back and reread Patrick thread and see where he ran his Trak cam and go from there. Don't get me wrong, I would love to try numerous different cams and pick the best one for my needs (mainly DD plus 1-2 trips a month to the track), but I do not have those types of resources. I have to get this on order by today for the discount, anyone else have any suggestions? TIA

westxwitesnake05

iTrader: (17)

sounds like a good setup, my plans are basically the same as yours... h/c now and big cube motor later on. ill be goin with the same heads and tsp 233/239 cam, and a long list of other goodies. A friend of mine has the torquer v3 and it is a hell of a cam. he has it on a 112 lsa and it sounds rowdy as hell. It really woke the car up but he hasnt got it on a dyno yet. as far as milling the heads i cant answer that but good luck with the swap!

N4cer

iTrader: (11)

Mill them to where you need to mill in order to get your desired compression ratio. Then spend a few bucks and flycut. The tool is under $200 for both intake and exhaust sides, and you'll have an old head after you pull them off. Simple enough. Don't let something as petty as flycutting keep you from making your motor run properly. That's the pussified way to go about it. Trust me. I made that mistake on my first H/C setup. That's why I'm on my 2nd H/C setup

But why the Tv3 cam? These motors shine in higher RPMs. I'm not sure but I believe they advertise the v3 as a midrange cam. That kinda defeats the purpose of a h/c swap to make the car faster, since when you wanna make LS1 power, you will be in the higher RPMs. I know to each his own and I'm not bashing you at all. Just a thought.

BOWTIE

Well, from what I have read, the LS1, LS6, and Fast intakes are all tuned to make peak HP in the 6200-6500 rpm range. So anytime you pick a cam that tries to make peak HP higher than that you are fighting with the intake. As far as flycutting, I am well aware of what it takes to do it, but I am a little skeptical of how much it would affect the factory balance, not to mention it is always hard to prevent some debris from slipping down between the piston and wall or ring (especially if you debur the sharp edges leftover afterwards), but most of all I am concerned with the durability aspect of notching valve reliefs into an already fairly questionable cast piston; especially since it may see a hit of N2O or two at some point. Also the V3 is a 231/234 at .050 cam with 640/590 lift, so I would not exactly call it a midsize cam allthough it does make good midrange numbers. Any other comments/suggestions? As I am sure is rather obvious I have for the most part made up my mind, but would still like advice on milling or advancing the cam. As anyone run these heads or even a stock head with a Trak cam, if so, how much PV clearance did you have?

N4cer

iTrader: (11)

I respect your choice in cams, and am not trying to dissuade you. That's a good cam and people love it. Heck, I'd even consider if I ever demod the car. But allow me to respond to the arguments you made against the flycutting:

The 3 intakes might be theoretically tuned for that range, but heads and cam will determine where you peak, of course. And I'm not talking where it peaks, but where you need to carry it out to for optimal shift points. Nobody would shift at peak. That would be stupid.

Valve reliefs cut into the stock pistons have never caused an N2O problem from any reports I've seen. Show me where you saw evidence of anyone having a problem from it, so I can prepare. It's commonly shown and accepted that the ringlands will go well before the center of the piston. That's just a myth made up by people who are scared to do it. And the metal shavings are easily cleaned up. You get more wear from what your motor produces daily, unless you just get sloppy with the flycutting. Heck, you're ordering from TSP. I remember them saying that it's nothing to flycutting, and they've done it enough to know that it's not a problem. If you decide to and have questions, holler at me. I just did it a couple of months ago.

And with the typical aftermarket cam starting at 224 and ending at 248 generally, you're right. The v3 isn't midsize at all. It's below. But it's a good cam. I just want to see you and everyone else get the most from it by building for proper compression. As both LG and TEA told me on the phone (while laughing at me) when I told them I didn't want to flycut:
"You don't have to. You can just say no to 10-25 extra horsepower by building with weak compression."

YellowToy/A

iTrader: (1)

I went with with a 224 228 on a 110 LSA +2 with XER lobes. You can order this from TSP for the same price as a off the shift cam.

I wanted more mid range. I did not want to worrry changeing valve springs every year. Plus I want a good idle. To many of my freinds with bigger cams have alot less drivablity.

You want high a high RPM motor get a big cam. More mid range small cam.

My car was alot faster with the new "small" cam

BOWTIE

Wow, You are the first person I have ever heard refer to a 231@.050 intake with .640 lift as a below midsize cam for a stock displacement, stock rodded, stock pistoned, stock rockered 346. Granted I have seen numerous larger cams designed for larger cubic inches and old school stuff (hell my old solid flat tappet for my 355 was 272 @.050), but I have only seen a handful of cams (if that) that I would consider larger than the V3 for a stock cube motor and those generally need to turned 6800-7000 rpms. I agree with you on the compression issue though which is my main reason for considering the smaller chamber 5.3's.

N4cer

iTrader: (11)

Like I said. Starting point for aftermarket would be 224. High end would be the Trex at 248 on the exhaust. And yeah, those are for stock motors. The math that says it's below.

It's a good cam and I always hear of people loving it. Should be an excellent combo. Let us know how it works out for ya.

hammertime

iTrader: (1)

TRex intake duration is 242 though, and there are a lot of aftermarket cams less than 224 on the intake (CheaTR, Hot Cam, GT2/3 to name a few). When comparing apple to apples, a 224/228 is a midrange cam, and 231/234 is going to shine more above 5000 rpms. Just because MS3/MS4, G5X3/X4 etc receive so much press around here doesn't make the Torquer v.3 a midrange cam. Again, looking at intake duration alone, your X3 is only 3 degrees more duration...