NO-OPTION-2002

iTrader: (2)

Ok, so here's the question.

How does running E85 affect vehicle emissions. Specifically HC and CO readings.

What I am thinking is one could build a fairly nasty engine, say for a 70's or 80's car that only has to pass sniffer (no visual), and use E85 to get through the yearly inspection. I understand the fuel system reqs. for E85.

Also, there are a few E85 stations around here (Utah), so availability is OK.

SUMMARY: Do HC/Co emissions increase or decrease with the use of E85?

Thanks.

slow67

iTrader: (2)

Assuming same compression as a gasoline motor, I have been told the emmisions go way down. On a high compression engine (say 14:1) I have been told that HC/Co are still low, but NOx comes up a lot.

spy2520

iTrader: (3)

i wonder if any of the guys who have to deal with the sniffer test for emissions can pass with e85 - or a higher alcohol content in general - with no cats...of course this wouldnt work long term in the stock fuel system but i wonder if they could get away with it just once, probably not i guess...

andereck

Ever see bottles of fuel additive that are supposed to improve emmisions? They contain alchohol.

Emmisions should improve with E85, and the overall environment should reap benifits from using it as well. The carbon from fossil fuel was locked away millions of years ago. Growing the stock for the ethanol in E85 uses carbon-dioxide that was produced from the burning of E85 and fossil fuels completing the circle.

Unfortunately it is illegal to use E85 in a road car that wasn't specifically certified for it. The EPA requires each vehicle model to certify to make it legal. I would offer retrofits if it wasn't such a red tape, expensive, pain in the ***. You can't really just sneak it in either as when it burns there is a characteristic odor.

andereck

No, I don't think so as a cold start is part of many tests. The engine just runs too rich on a cold start cycle. The lighting of the cats is necessary to burn off the excess fuel from a cold start. This is why the air pump is required as well. But hey, I don't know for sure.

What I want to know is....how much energy and resources are wasted from the raw materials, manufacturing, transportation, installation and dragging the converters around for the life of the car?

spy2520

iTrader: (3)

now thats something to ponder...

usdmholden

Back when Florida had emissions testing, in the early 1990's, we would run about a 30% alcohol mix to pass emissions. At that time I had a two different cars I did this with, and had many friends who did the same. We would mix about a gallon of alcohol (ethyl) with about two or three gallons of gas. The exact ratio was unknown since we didn't have an accurate measurement in the gas tank. So long as the gas tank in our Mustangs were at about 1/8th, we could dump in a gallon or so of ethyl and the cars would practically blow zeros at the sniffer. These were pretty modified cars, and most all the emissions controls were removed. No cats (hollowed out or straight tube welded in), no EGR, no thermactor, no air injection, no charcoal cannister, nothing really. The only visual inspection in Florida was for cats, they never opened the hood. Also, this was back before the invent of accurate MAF transfer curves and large injectors for Mustangs. Typically we would be running 30 lb/hr injectors in a system designed for 19's, without a special MAF, but we did have alot of empirical testing to see what worked without fouling plugs due to injector size mismatch and FMU, etc.

An approximate 30% alcohol/gas mix worked pretty well. I assume E85 would only be better, especially with the tuning capability of modern EFI systems. I now live in NC but have never tried it in my GTO, since my GTO is pretty much stock. Even then, in NC, they just seem to scan for OBD2 codes and don't do a sniffer test.

treyZ28

All the clean vehicle challenges run E-85.

NO-OPTION-2002

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the responses, guys!

What I hade in mind was a fairly nasty small block ~'80 malibu, setup as a street legal "airstrip" $$$$ racer.

In my mind I should be able to set it up to run E85 all the time. But, with andereck's great info about the EPA, I now wonder if I could get "busted" pumping E85 into the car?

Would a gas staion cashier or passing by officer even notice/care?

treyZ28

E-85 is a legal fuel

NO-OPTION-2002

iTrader: (2)

See this is where I'm cunfused...

It looks like it's not legal to run, unless the vehicle you are driving is certified. But do the gas stations even check???

spy2520

iTrader: (3)

no they probably wont check, its also illegal to pump gas into a milk jug, it is not the station attendants job to enforce laws, although it would be in their best interest to do so when it comes to smoking and filling up containers in truck beds...

silverZinSD

iTrader: (7)

I love E-85. I haven't checked mine with a sniffer yet though sorry. I seen an average of 12 hp gain across the board. I am very satisfied. The best part is it was all done with tuning!!! There will be programmers released within the month for Vettes' F-bodies, GM trucks as well as many more applications. pm me for applications and price

andereck

I wonder where drag week will be this year and if a guy could fill up with E85 for the entire route? I think that would be cool and send a positive message.

rubbersidedown

fyi-
www.runE85.com
emissions are significantly reduced- and the EPA ruling says it is illegal to convert a vehicle with a fuel that produces emissions moreso than gasoline. These laws for conversions were wrote in the early 80's due to the popularity of converting to LP and CNG- which contributed to various higher emissions. It's all about how you read the law, I guess. This is a sticky area and we are alot farther into this than I can publicly expalin at this time.
http://www.diablosport.com/index.php...display&pid=94
info on the new programmers...

andereck

I think what you're doing is great, I really do. Its still unfortunately illegal until you get each specific vehicle certified and exempted. Until there is major progress in the area with the EPA it won't be legal for road use.

http://www.e85fuel.com/e85101/faqs/conversion.php

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/dearmfr/cisd0602.pdf

treyZ28

Do you have a list of what I'd need to convert to E-85?

My truck was originally a 4.8