caseypayne69

For a 99 fixed roof Corvette with 6 speed.

Use: Not for daily driver use, but some weekend and some trips to work usuage, strip and some courses.

I've read a bit about Warhawk 454, 427 blocks. I understand changing the block on an LS1 will benefit so much because it takes the overall picture for power, aka heads, pistons, cam, intake etc. But I'm curious about the cost of simply changing from the stock block to a Warhawk block with tuning work?

What things would break in the use of the car after such a swap in the driveline? Costs?

I'm sure a huge amount of torq is gained but what about HP number? I assume 100 hp max. Making a stock LS1 jump to 445 hp. Please

camaroextra

iTrader: (10)

Are you saying to only swap out the shortblock and leave everything else stock? You do realize that LS1 heads will not fit on a warhawk block right?

caseypayne69

I was assuming it would, but the heads would stroud the blocks potential for full breathing. I might as well add to the description: Streetable street/strip cam, fittable heads. And flatter pistons. While remaining streetable use, just not daily driver worthy. As far as product quality. Between good, better, best. Just Good-better items. I only thought stock LS1 head fit on the Warhawks block. Just wondering what the standard like this would cost and potential gains.

Let me summarize since I wasn't on track with LS1 knowledge.

Warhawk block 427 or 454 with higher compression, meaner then street cam

Matchable heads and Intake. I assume it will bolt to the T-56 tranny. Whether it can handle the power difference is a difference question.

So parts and Labor does this sound less then 10k? I know the Warhawk block is around $4500. Heads some where between $1,000 to $3,000. Misc $2,000 and labor of $2,000 to 3,000. Sound about right? One thing I love about the LS1 is that compared to Mustang SOHC or DOHC for that matter is that LS1 stuff is so cheap. It all seams like bargains to me. Don't get me wrong I still love Mustangs.

99blancoSS

iTrader: (115)

Less than 10k to build a 427 or 454 from scratch? $4500 block+ 3000 heads = $7500 Now what about internals for that block? 10k is not realistic in this scenerio

caseypayne69

Alright, then can I guess from my Mustang experience, the total cost of internals in the LS1 to hit around $3,500?

So your $7,000 + 3,500 + $2,500 in labor runs to $13,000. For that cost I might as well order an LS7 block and pay another $2k to install that right? Or would an avg 454 aftermarket parts setup blow out the LS7?

99blancoSS

iTrader: (115)

You should call a few sponsors and see what you can get a 427 for. You'd be surprised. I had LME build my SB and would recommend you talk to Brian with them. A crate ls7 isnt a bad way to go, with a cam and headers you can really wake them up.

caseypayne69

I hope you guys don't think I'm just wanting to waste your time on thoughts. In the coming future I'm leaning toward four or five different V8's. And I've noticed Early fixed roof Corvettes are moving down in price as well. And I've always played with the idea of a big displacement small block Corvette C5. And I do thank you guys for the input.

JDP

iTrader: (21)

from what it sounds like, you should just go to a ls2, warhawk is for ***** to the wall if you ask me.

402ci ls1, decent size cam, good set of heads should put you around the 500whp mark in a 6 speed car.

i can tell you are new here, search is your friend, look in the dyno section at peoples setup and the power they make with different combos. look for threads that talk about the driveability of the car with certain things. ive been on this forum for over a year and i read **** on here and learn as much as i can about these cars. its never ending

Adnectere

JDP Love the sig

Adnectere

If you mention price, that means warhawk is too expensive. I think they're about 4k, at any rate too high. You can take either your stock ls1 (or buy a broken one for 250ish) and have it relinered to a 427/440. That process is ~1400. You'll get either a 4.125 or a 4.185 (better) bore. You can also take an iron block for ~600 and get a 4" bore.
That leaves you with a 454; 427/440; 402. Your prices on the block are 4000; stock or 250 + 1400; 600. I'll assume you are getting about 1.3 hp/cubic inch. That means your price gaps/cubes over the stock 346 are: iron block 402 402-346=56*1.3=72.8 hp for $600 or $8.24/hp; 427-346=81 *1.3=105.3 hp for $1400 or $13.30/hp; 454 warhawk is 454-346=108*1.3=140.4 hp for $4000 or $28.49/hp.

Those #'s are somewhat vague because the 346 you start with is going to increase in VE and output along similar lines; your whole goal is to break the 4" bore so you can use better heads. Everyone uses the 402 or a 427/440 b/c its cheap - way cheap compared to a 454. Your rotating internals are going to be strong forged pieces so that brings up that you could always get a blown/sprayed 402 for cheaper than an NA 454. That sounds a whole lot more appealing to me...and a NA 402 will have a hell of a lot more than 450 hp...

caseypayne69

Love the information buddy. I was just thinking the walls might be to thin for a 402 or 408. But then again I would stay NA and maybe maybe spray. And since I don't plan on any power adders outside of spray, which I probably will never touch, i'll be fine with a thin block. My other concern is rpm's. Bringing a 346 to a 402, is this simply a bore job or bore and stroke? I really don't want the negatives of stroking like lower RPM's. Unless there is a valve and lifters that can match up for 7k ish RPM's. Coming from the Mustang side a $4500 block is the exact same price of an Aluminum 5.0 big bore block for my GT. I'll definitly research 402's further for my NA RPM lovin needs.

Beast96Z

iTrader: (21)

For what your wanting, a re-sleeved LS2 block from R.E.D will be plenty. Couple that with a bore size of your choice, up to 4.185", and choose your stroke, probablly a 4.100" Eagle, and end up around 440 + cubes. Price will be decent.
Sleeved LS2 block $3k
Eagle rotating assembally $2k
L92 or LS7 heads and intake $1400-$3k
You'll still need lifters, the new GM race series lifters are good for 7k+, and misc other internal items, but this is a cheaper way to big cubes. Don't forget a cam and your supporting bolt ons plus motr assembally and install. Buying a LS7 crate motor, IMO, is a waste of money. FWIW, I have a sleeved LS2 454, bu tit was not a cost effective build.

Matt2105

iTrader: (4)

Are you still banned on SVTP.com?

caseypayne69

Yea, for being a Christian. But hey I learned you can talk with athiest retards on the net its a waste of time.

Beast96Z, that's one sweet ride you must have.

Matt2105

iTrader: (4)

Im pretty sure you got banned because YOU were the retard. But anyways, good luck with your thread.

Adnectere

I love your banterings.

Let me show you why rpm's dont matter. Let's say your motor has equal volumetric eff. based on its size. So let's say you make 1 lb-ft/cubic inch & your max rpm is based on a 3800 fpm piston speed. I'm going to use (rpm*stroke)/6=piston speed as our formula. None of this is specific, but it gets the point across and 3800-4k is a basic # for forged pistons and you can exceed that temporarily. Rearranged, that's rpm=(piston speed*6)/stroke
I'm going to use an old school chevy small block so we can just barely change the bore, it's a better example

350 @ 4 x 3.48
max rpm = 3800*6 / 3.48 = 6551
Instead of a 383 b/c thats .030 over I'm going to use a 377
377 @ 4 x 3.75
max rpm = 3800*6 /3.75 = 6080

Now when you figure up power, its rpm * torque / 5252 or
350: 6551 * 350 / 5252= 436 hp
383: 6080 * 377/5252=436 hp

Ok, so I rigged this but it shows that a bigger motor turning lower rpms will move the exact same amount of air as a smaller motor turning higher rpms when their piston speeds are the same. For example a 175 cubic inch at 10,000 rpms will move the same amount of air as a 350 at 5,000 at an equal VE. In reality, if you have the option of the above two motors you would pick the 383 because even though peak power is the same, you would get more torque under the curve.

Now in reality I rigged this example and the guy who gets the bigger motor is probably going to be a hot rodder so he won't stick with a conservative piston speed, he'll push it. This example assumes piston speed & VE stays constant and they don't - you will push both higher as you go to a bigger motor in the lsx world. Hope this helps and remember to build as big a motor as you possibly can for your dollar.

caseypayne69

Hey thanks for stepping in a thread you have no part in helping the topic on. Put more use to your life some where else please. If you want to discuss things in PM thats fine, but in a thread that has nothing to do with the topic is pure trolling. And PS my username got banned not my IP. I just choose not to hang around such an array of retards. I'm mostly at www.modulardepot.com or www.sn95forums.com

caseypayne69

Bit detailed but that made perfect sense. I wasn't talking higher RPM's strickly for performance but for fun factor. Personally, I love changing gears hitting higher RPM's. I suppose thats why I love driving my Mustang SOHC around. But I do understand your point though. From that the outlook the LS7 Z06 has the best of both worlds right? The torq at the big cube in and 7k RPM airflow. I always thought it was neat hot it got stroked and bored, and yet reached higher RPM's due to better internals. Personally, I think that motor is working hard, but not at its full potential even in stock form due to GM's no gas guzzler tax rule and emissions. I'm willing to bet a stock LS7 with only a computer tune could reach mid 500's.

Irocss85

iTrader: (1)

wonder why you got banned?

but Id say your more on your way in the right direction now. if cost is a factoe , you dont want/need to go with a race designed high dollar block to start with. Id say big bore LS2 also. and what are "negatives" of a stroker? you can still rev a big stroker motor to 7000 no problem if its built right. and the L92's sure are looking like the way to go for big bore engines on a budget. I see livernois sells some CNC versions now that flow 365cfm

Adnectere

The example was to prove that a high rpm low displacement motor at the same piston speed and ve equals a low rpm high displacement motor. In reality, even though peak powers are essentially the same, your day-to-day driving will be better with the bigger motor because you have more torque under the curve. Keep in mind that to get to peak power on a smaller motor you have to accelerate it and the car to get the rpms up & that means wasted time getting the motor on cam. A larger motor will have power on tap at any point and then even more once the rpms go up. Your ideal is a big motor running big rpms - that was ignored when I set piston speed because it limited the larger motor's power. A hot rodder will run your 402/427/440 up to 7k with no problems. Fun factor with revving rpms is ok with a mustang because it has short gears and the redline is not high - I'm betting yours is 5500-6k & your top speed in 1st is probably ~35-45. You can now rev out first and not have it be a big deal. But when you run a stock t56/ls1 to 7k that's 60+ in first gear and 90+ in second gear- you aren't going to redline that on the street in your local neighborhood. When you step up to the lsx world you are talking more speed so be careful with rpms.