80 malibu, LS1 turbo. HELP!
02-25-2007, 04:52 AM
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80 malibu, LS1 turbo. HELP! Ok guys, ive stated a project, knowing 95% of the things needed to complete it (a recepe for disaster i know) here is whar i have: 2002 LS1, complete with accessories, wires.. the works! single turbo manifold and crossover tube, a 4x12x24 inch air/air intercooler, a Master Power T70 (rated at 800Hp) 48mm turbosmart wastegate... an aerimotive A1000 fuelpump and 48 lbs injectors..
what am i missing (besides fitting and welding pipes) how do i reprogram the CPU? how much boost can i run on a stock engine? (i know im supposed to fit pistons, rods, cam and ported heads.. but work with me here)
what am i missing (besides fitting and welding pipes) how do i reprogram the CPU? how much boost can i run on a stock engine? (i know im supposed to fit pistons, rods, cam and ported heads.. but work with me here)
02-25-2007, 01:44 PM
#3
From the infamous sticky:
"Many people ask "I have this much money, can i turbo/SC my car?". And there really isnt any place that they can turn for the help they need. So i have put this together to help others out.
Let me first start by saying i originally figured my build would cost around 7,000-7,500 dollars. Well, in the end it came out to 10,500-11,000 dollars. It suprised me but iam not new to turbocharging and i expected this, so i had the additional funds. Well, I have just finished buying everything that i needed for my turbo project and i have decided to list eveything ive bought, the price and how badly its needed.
You should know that while this is not a low budget build, it is in MY opinion the bare-minumum for a 500RWHP+ build. All of these parts together will easily and safely handle 530RWHP+ and if you have the money to risk the engine it will handle 600RWHP+.
How much the parts are needed will be listed like this: REQUIRED, RECOMMENDED and OPTIONAL
Please remember that this is a 500RWHP+ build. If you plan on maxing at 450HP or lower some of these parts would not required, although i could not imagine turbocharging an LS1 engine without a single one of these parts
THE PARTS:
THE TURBO KIT (or supercharger): The average Kits range from $4500-$6500 and most include the needed things like a BOV, wastegate, Intercooler, turbo, SC head unit and piping. Only Vortech and ATI include fueling parts, but when going 500HP+ i would upgrade these parts anyway. REQUIRED
FUEL PUMP: I went with the Racetronix P&P fuel system, it is easy to install and gives the required amount of fuel. They retail for $265. Another addition to this if you are going for alot of power is a BAP that increases the voltage to the pump and they cost around $250. REQUIRED
INJECTORS: When it came to injectors i figured i might as well get a big size now instead of upgrading later, which always happens anyway. So i went with 60LB motorons injectors which seem to be very popular and cost $425. REQUIRED
6.0L HEADS: The idea of puting these on your ls1 is that they lower your compression normaly about a full point which allows you to safely boost more. They also flow alittle better, like the LS6 heads. I bought them used and assembled for $300, although i only used the valves from them. RECOMMENDED
CAMSHAFT: My original plan was to go with a new or low mileage used Z06/LS6 cam. But i then looked around and found other ones that i liked more and i setteled with the Lingenfelter GT-7. although a cam isnt really needed for 450HP, over 500HP it will definetly help. The cam will range between $150 (used) to $380 (brand new GT-7). RECOMMENDED
VALVE SPRINGS: Because your engine will see serious pressure under boost your stock valvesprings will not have enough pressure to seal against the head, and therefore need to be upgraded to 918s at the minimum. I went with the Patriot Dual Valvespring kit, which are a great deal at $245. REQUIRED
TIMING CHAIN: The stock LS1 chain is pretty weak and with those new valve springs it will se alot more pressure and needs to be upgraded. You can buy a hardened single timing chain (like LS2) or a dual. i bought the rollmaster dual timing chain for $110 REQUIRED
PUSHRODS: Because of the new cam/valve springs the pushrods are another weak link that needs to be upgraded. i went with 7.400" manleys for $130 REQUIRED
OIL PUMP: The stock ls1 pumps were never all that great and even though my stock one made almost 60 psi at idle, u can never have to much oil, so i ordered a ported and blueprinted one from Byunspeed for $160 OPTIONAL
HEAD BOLTS: The heads will see alot of pressure from the turbo and should be upgraded to ARP bolts or studs. They should also be upgraded because you are changing your heads. i got the ARP head bolts for $130 REQUIRED
CLUTCH: The stock clutch has pretty much no chance of holding anything near 500RWHP and should be changed. You can go with weaker clutchs and change them every 5,000 miles or you can go with a very good one (for a price) that can last a very very long time. i went with the Textralia for $975. REQUIRED
GAUGE POD: To keep track of everything going on in your new turbo/SC system you are going to need some gauges and a gauge pod to hold them. you can choose between many ways of mounting the gauges. I got the triple pillar pod from autometer for $55 OPTIONAL
BOOST GAUGE: You will need this to see how much your turbo/SC is boosting while you are driving/racing. Also you can use it to see boost spikes and to tell if there is boost leak etc. You can choose between an electric one or a mechanical one. i got the Autometer mechanical 20psi Cobalt boost gauge for $70, the electrical version is 30psi and $180. HIGHLY RECOMMEDED
FUEL GAUGE: You will need this to make sure you have the right amount of fuel pressure for your engine etc. i got the autometer electric 0-100psi Cobalt gauge for $190 HIGHLY RECOMMEDED
WIDEBAND O2 SENSOR: This in my opinion is very important for many reasons. it will let you constintly moniter your engine A/F even at idle, which can alert you to problems very early on. It is also a great tuning device. they range from 250-500. i got the dynotune one for $265 REQUIRED
BOOST CONTROLLER: A boost controller uses the pressure that is made from your turbo system to control the opening of the wastegate. In turn, this causes the wastgate to stay closed more, thus creating more pressure in your exhaust that then spins the turbo faster and creates more psi (boost pressure). They range from mechanical ones for $70 all the way up to electric ones that can actually control boost spikes, they run up to $500. This is the only thing on the list that i didn't buy.... but i will after i get beat for the first time. OPTIONAL
METHANOL INJECTION: i have just recently done research pertaining to meth injection and the more i hear and read about it, the more i like it. when a meth kit is installed it lowers your IAT up to 40 degrees and makes your gas the equivelent of some say 110+ octane. this allows you to run more boost and be alot safer. here is the basic idea of a meth kit, they are standalone pumps with a bottle/container with the meth/water, when they sense boost they spray the meth relative to boost when its needed. there are also safety systems that can be purchased to insure that if the meth dosent flow (i.e it runs out) the car wont boost and cause damage to the engine. Companys like Snow Performance and Alkycontrol sell these kits, they run from $300-$550. a good safety system is around $100. OPTIONAL
GOOD TUNE: This is important on any car, and the same goes for a FI car. they range from doing it yourself (which isnt to easy) to getting it professionly done for around $450. If you are interested in doing it yourself you have a couple choices, here are a few, HP TUNERS, EFIlive, MAFT PRO and LS1edit REQUIRED
RANDOM PARTS & GASKETS: There are always a bunch of these things you need to buy. Here are a couple, new crank bolt (ARP $30), front crank seal ($23), 6.0L head gaskets ($60), valve spring tool (crane $115), Coolant to refill radiator, oil to do oil change, RVT gasket maker, loctite and a couple specialty tools, like torque wench. pulley puller, long and short sockets, ramps, good floor jack, etc. REQUIRED
And you supercharger people, dont forget about headers and exhaust!
In addition to all this, remember all the installation work was done by me, so that didnt cost anything, if you plan on paying someone just imagine the amount of work, so be prepared to pay. Also none of this includes suspension componets or a rear end, which will most likely not last long with 500RWHP+.
Well i hope this helps some people out, and if its good enough it would be cool if it was a sticky!"
Good luck, research this all before you begin.
Andy
"Many people ask "I have this much money, can i turbo/SC my car?". And there really isnt any place that they can turn for the help they need. So i have put this together to help others out.
Let me first start by saying i originally figured my build would cost around 7,000-7,500 dollars. Well, in the end it came out to 10,500-11,000 dollars. It suprised me but iam not new to turbocharging and i expected this, so i had the additional funds. Well, I have just finished buying everything that i needed for my turbo project and i have decided to list eveything ive bought, the price and how badly its needed.
You should know that while this is not a low budget build, it is in MY opinion the bare-minumum for a 500RWHP+ build. All of these parts together will easily and safely handle 530RWHP+ and if you have the money to risk the engine it will handle 600RWHP+.
How much the parts are needed will be listed like this: REQUIRED, RECOMMENDED and OPTIONAL
Please remember that this is a 500RWHP+ build. If you plan on maxing at 450HP or lower some of these parts would not required, although i could not imagine turbocharging an LS1 engine without a single one of these parts
THE PARTS:
THE TURBO KIT (or supercharger): The average Kits range from $4500-$6500 and most include the needed things like a BOV, wastegate, Intercooler, turbo, SC head unit and piping. Only Vortech and ATI include fueling parts, but when going 500HP+ i would upgrade these parts anyway. REQUIRED
FUEL PUMP: I went with the Racetronix P&P fuel system, it is easy to install and gives the required amount of fuel. They retail for $265. Another addition to this if you are going for alot of power is a BAP that increases the voltage to the pump and they cost around $250. REQUIRED
INJECTORS: When it came to injectors i figured i might as well get a big size now instead of upgrading later, which always happens anyway. So i went with 60LB motorons injectors which seem to be very popular and cost $425. REQUIRED
6.0L HEADS: The idea of puting these on your ls1 is that they lower your compression normaly about a full point which allows you to safely boost more. They also flow alittle better, like the LS6 heads. I bought them used and assembled for $300, although i only used the valves from them. RECOMMENDED
CAMSHAFT: My original plan was to go with a new or low mileage used Z06/LS6 cam. But i then looked around and found other ones that i liked more and i setteled with the Lingenfelter GT-7. although a cam isnt really needed for 450HP, over 500HP it will definetly help. The cam will range between $150 (used) to $380 (brand new GT-7). RECOMMENDED
VALVE SPRINGS: Because your engine will see serious pressure under boost your stock valvesprings will not have enough pressure to seal against the head, and therefore need to be upgraded to 918s at the minimum. I went with the Patriot Dual Valvespring kit, which are a great deal at $245. REQUIRED
TIMING CHAIN: The stock LS1 chain is pretty weak and with those new valve springs it will se alot more pressure and needs to be upgraded. You can buy a hardened single timing chain (like LS2) or a dual. i bought the rollmaster dual timing chain for $110 REQUIRED
PUSHRODS: Because of the new cam/valve springs the pushrods are another weak link that needs to be upgraded. i went with 7.400" manleys for $130 REQUIRED
OIL PUMP: The stock ls1 pumps were never all that great and even though my stock one made almost 60 psi at idle, u can never have to much oil, so i ordered a ported and blueprinted one from Byunspeed for $160 OPTIONAL
HEAD BOLTS: The heads will see alot of pressure from the turbo and should be upgraded to ARP bolts or studs. They should also be upgraded because you are changing your heads. i got the ARP head bolts for $130 REQUIRED
CLUTCH: The stock clutch has pretty much no chance of holding anything near 500RWHP and should be changed. You can go with weaker clutchs and change them every 5,000 miles or you can go with a very good one (for a price) that can last a very very long time. i went with the Textralia for $975. REQUIRED
GAUGE POD: To keep track of everything going on in your new turbo/SC system you are going to need some gauges and a gauge pod to hold them. you can choose between many ways of mounting the gauges. I got the triple pillar pod from autometer for $55 OPTIONAL
BOOST GAUGE: You will need this to see how much your turbo/SC is boosting while you are driving/racing. Also you can use it to see boost spikes and to tell if there is boost leak etc. You can choose between an electric one or a mechanical one. i got the Autometer mechanical 20psi Cobalt boost gauge for $70, the electrical version is 30psi and $180. HIGHLY RECOMMEDED
FUEL GAUGE: You will need this to make sure you have the right amount of fuel pressure for your engine etc. i got the autometer electric 0-100psi Cobalt gauge for $190 HIGHLY RECOMMEDED
WIDEBAND O2 SENSOR: This in my opinion is very important for many reasons. it will let you constintly moniter your engine A/F even at idle, which can alert you to problems very early on. It is also a great tuning device. they range from 250-500. i got the dynotune one for $265 REQUIRED
BOOST CONTROLLER: A boost controller uses the pressure that is made from your turbo system to control the opening of the wastegate. In turn, this causes the wastgate to stay closed more, thus creating more pressure in your exhaust that then spins the turbo faster and creates more psi (boost pressure). They range from mechanical ones for $70 all the way up to electric ones that can actually control boost spikes, they run up to $500. This is the only thing on the list that i didn't buy.... but i will after i get beat for the first time. OPTIONAL
METHANOL INJECTION: i have just recently done research pertaining to meth injection and the more i hear and read about it, the more i like it. when a meth kit is installed it lowers your IAT up to 40 degrees and makes your gas the equivelent of some say 110+ octane. this allows you to run more boost and be alot safer. here is the basic idea of a meth kit, they are standalone pumps with a bottle/container with the meth/water, when they sense boost they spray the meth relative to boost when its needed. there are also safety systems that can be purchased to insure that if the meth dosent flow (i.e it runs out) the car wont boost and cause damage to the engine. Companys like Snow Performance and Alkycontrol sell these kits, they run from $300-$550. a good safety system is around $100. OPTIONAL
GOOD TUNE: This is important on any car, and the same goes for a FI car. they range from doing it yourself (which isnt to easy) to getting it professionly done for around $450. If you are interested in doing it yourself you have a couple choices, here are a few, HP TUNERS, EFIlive, MAFT PRO and LS1edit REQUIRED
RANDOM PARTS & GASKETS: There are always a bunch of these things you need to buy. Here are a couple, new crank bolt (ARP $30), front crank seal ($23), 6.0L head gaskets ($60), valve spring tool (crane $115), Coolant to refill radiator, oil to do oil change, RVT gasket maker, loctite and a couple specialty tools, like torque wench. pulley puller, long and short sockets, ramps, good floor jack, etc. REQUIRED
And you supercharger people, dont forget about headers and exhaust!
In addition to all this, remember all the installation work was done by me, so that didnt cost anything, if you plan on paying someone just imagine the amount of work, so be prepared to pay. Also none of this includes suspension componets or a rear end, which will most likely not last long with 500RWHP+.
Well i hope this helps some people out, and if its good enough it would be cool if it was a sticky!"
Good luck, research this all before you begin.
Andy
02-25-2007, 02:02 PM
#4
Should be a fun project! Use the SEARCH function here liberally and you will find a lot of individual answers.
I have an 81 Malibu with a blower, intercooler and a lot of other work done to it. Feel free to shoot me a note with any Malibu questions.
Check out my site:
http://home.mindspring.com/~jim_fisk/id1.html
Jim
PS You might want to be more protective of that intercooler - they are pretty fragile and if the fins get bent or crushed you'll have a hard time getting them back to normal.
I have an 81 Malibu with a blower, intercooler and a lot of other work done to it. Feel free to shoot me a note with any Malibu questions.
Check out my site:
http://home.mindspring.com/~jim_fisk/id1.html
Jim
PS You might want to be more protective of that intercooler - they are pretty fragile and if the fins get bent or crushed you'll have a hard time getting them back to normal.
02-25-2007, 02:20 PM
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Use HP Tuners or EFI Live to tune with. You can go speed density with either of those if you max out your MAF later.
The stock cam will work, but if you go aftermarket, do a reverse split pattern, or at least single pattern on a 114 to 117 LSA. Keep overlap to a minimum.
You can always pick up a set of truck heads (317 castings) to reduce the compression ratio and pick up some flow, but the stock heads flow well.
With a safe tune on a stock bottom end, you should be able to see over 500rwhp, but I'd worry about those cast pistons at that point. If you are thinking about that hp level, I'd at least go with some good forged pistons.
Boost to hp will vary with each application and tune so you really should ask "how much horsepower" instead of "how much boost".
I assume you have an auto, so a BOV is not mandatory, but a good idea.
The stock cam will work, but if you go aftermarket, do a reverse split pattern, or at least single pattern on a 114 to 117 LSA. Keep overlap to a minimum.
You can always pick up a set of truck heads (317 castings) to reduce the compression ratio and pick up some flow, but the stock heads flow well.
With a safe tune on a stock bottom end, you should be able to see over 500rwhp, but I'd worry about those cast pistons at that point. If you are thinking about that hp level, I'd at least go with some good forged pistons.
Boost to hp will vary with each application and tune so you really should ask "how much horsepower" instead of "how much boost".
I assume you have an auto, so a BOV is not mandatory, but a good idea.
02-25-2007, 03:22 PM
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thank you, it is good to know im on the right track.. i have a 50mm tial BOV it is in one of the pics btw.
ill check into both tuner systems tomorrow, and my goal is 501 rwhp. which should be within reach, (we have 95 octane in pumps here) and i think ill add a water injection system just to keep the temps down at WOT to save the pistons before i invest in forged rods/pistons and turn up the boost..
ill check into both tuner systems tomorrow, and my goal is 501 rwhp. which should be within reach, (we have 95 octane in pumps here) and i think ill add a water injection system just to keep the temps down at WOT to save the pistons before i invest in forged rods/pistons and turn up the boost..
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02-26-2007, 10:57 AM
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the manifold is made by Detroit Speedworks, i bought it from a board member on lateral-g. i think its part of a turbo kit for a 6.0 escalade, and the 95 octane is available at every gas station in Denmark (yes in europe), select ones has 98 btw.
well it would be nice to hit 600rwhp, but ita an a4 so there are limits to what it will take the tranny is rebuilt and upgraded to take 650 Hp so i better lock the 14psi spring for the wastegate in a place i cant reach it..
well it would be nice to hit 600rwhp, but ita an a4 so there are limits to what it will take the tranny is rebuilt and upgraded to take 650 Hp so i better lock the 14psi spring for the wastegate in a place i cant reach it..
