3" to bigger piping hurt things?
03-04-2007, 11:37 PM
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3" to bigger piping hurt things? Started to put on the piping supplied with my procharger kit to find out none of it will work with my setup. So I have decieded to buy a few aluminum J bends from Burns Stainless www.burnsstainless.com and now I'm wondering if going to larger diameter piping will hurt performance of make it better? Stay with the 3" or step up to 3.5", 4" and do custom bends with the big stuff?
03-05-2007, 12:22 AM
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it prolly depends on what you plan on doing?
are you doing a smaller setup or going crazy boost.
in either case i wouldn't have any valuable information, hopefully someone else will chim in. i remember reading people arging over turbo setups, say sometimes going to bigger piping when its not needed could cause a loss in velocity of the air moveing thru the pipes or some stuff, but i could not say weather thats complete gibberish or has some actuall truth behind it
are you doing a smaller setup or going crazy boost.
in either case i wouldn't have any valuable information, hopefully someone else will chim in. i remember reading people arging over turbo setups, say sometimes going to bigger piping when its not needed could cause a loss in velocity of the air moveing thru the pipes or some stuff, but i could not say weather thats complete gibberish or has some actuall truth behind it
03-05-2007, 01:52 AM
#3
No advantage in having supercharger piping any larger than the blower discharge. Disadvantages include difficulty in packaging, extra system volume to pressurize (as 98_Formula said).
Jim
PS For tubing, check out this link for much better pricing:
http://www.globaltecheng.com/Products.htm under the "Convey Line Components" section
Jim
PS For tubing, check out this link for much better pricing:
http://www.globaltecheng.com/Products.htm under the "Convey Line Components" section
03-05-2007, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Dwn Cam
So stay with the 3" inch. Where does that start to limit performance?
if the supercharger has a 3 inch opening, putting 4 inch tubing up to it isn't going to help you out... and i would generally agree with that statement, it seems to make sense. but, i don't have any "data" or a degree that i coudl back that up with...
i'm not sure if there is a hp or cfm level at which having bigger piping would help.
you could prolly find it more beneficial to upgrade things like the intake area (filter, intake hat) and maybe minimizing bends, or chainge the plenum setup on some s/c setups, maybe a more efficent intercooler, etc thing like that, to find more power or get better efficiently.
judging from your sig, looks like your not having a power problem. are you running a D1SC and looking for more boost? i think generally about 14psi is going to be the limit of that blower on a larger cube setup like the one you have. i think on the smaller 346, 347 setups they see about 15 -16 psi max.
03-05-2007, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by 98_Formula
it prolly depends on what you plan on doing?
are you doing a smaller setup or going crazy boost.
in either case i wouldn't have any valuable information, hopefully someone else will chim in. i remember reading people arging over turbo setups, say sometimes going to bigger piping when its not needed could cause a loss in velocity of the air moveing thru the pipes or some stuff, but i could not say weather thats complete gibberish or has some actuall truth behind it
are you doing a smaller setup or going crazy boost.
in either case i wouldn't have any valuable information, hopefully someone else will chim in. i remember reading people arging over turbo setups, say sometimes going to bigger piping when its not needed could cause a loss in velocity of the air moveing thru the pipes or some stuff, but i could not say weather thats complete gibberish or has some actuall truth behind it
Mike
03-05-2007, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Skunkworks
Was that induction side or to turbo turbine?
Mike
Mike
they were referring to the size of piping into and out of the intercooler, things along that line.
but again take it like a grain of salt, this it was i remember from an argument or discussion from a little while back, when some "custom" turbo kits were turning up on some of the local hondas, eclipses, stuff like that
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03-05-2007, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by 98_Formula
well ... like deltaT said,
if the supercharger has a 3 inch opening, putting 4 inch tubing up to it isn't going to help you out... and i would generally agree with that statement, it seems to make sense. but, i don't have any "data" or a degree that i coudl back that up with...
i'm not sure if there is a hp or cfm level at which having bigger piping would help.
you could prolly find it more beneficial to upgrade things like the intake area (filter, intake hat) and maybe minimizing bends, or chainge the plenum setup on some s/c setups, maybe a more efficent intercooler, etc thing like that, to find more power or get better efficiently.
judging from your sig, looks like your not having a power problem. are you running a D1SC and looking for more boost? i think generally about 14psi is going to be the limit of that blower on a larger cube setup like the one you have. i think on the smaller 346, 347 setups they see about 15 -16 psi max.
if the supercharger has a 3 inch opening, putting 4 inch tubing up to it isn't going to help you out... and i would generally agree with that statement, it seems to make sense. but, i don't have any "data" or a degree that i coudl back that up with...
i'm not sure if there is a hp or cfm level at which having bigger piping would help.
you could prolly find it more beneficial to upgrade things like the intake area (filter, intake hat) and maybe minimizing bends, or chainge the plenum setup on some s/c setups, maybe a more efficent intercooler, etc thing like that, to find more power or get better efficiently.
judging from your sig, looks like your not having a power problem. are you running a D1SC and looking for more boost? i think generally about 14psi is going to be the limit of that blower on a larger cube setup like the one you have. i think on the smaller 346, 347 setups they see about 15 -16 psi max.
03-05-2007, 06:51 PM
#9
Actually larger will not hurt & may even help if you are over 800 or so HP. If I'm using someting bigger than a D1 then I opt for 3.5"
The high velocity of air in the tubing will cause some pressure drop between the charger & the engine, even though the charger may have a 3" outlet.
If you figure a 2000cfm charger pushing 15# boost, the velocity of the air is moving at over 230mph at max charger output. This causes a lot of frictional losses. The same system with 3.5" tubing would be roughly 170mph velocity.
The inlet tubing is even worse as it effects the chargers ability to pump air.
Resistance increases at roughly the square of the speed, meaning when you double the speed, the resistance/pressure loss ix 4x. The 3.5" vs. 3" would be roughly 54% of the pressure drop. The only drawback is fitting the bigger tubing in a crowded engine compartment.
The high velocity of air in the tubing will cause some pressure drop between the charger & the engine, even though the charger may have a 3" outlet.
If you figure a 2000cfm charger pushing 15# boost, the velocity of the air is moving at over 230mph at max charger output. This causes a lot of frictional losses. The same system with 3.5" tubing would be roughly 170mph velocity.
The inlet tubing is even worse as it effects the chargers ability to pump air.
Resistance increases at roughly the square of the speed, meaning when you double the speed, the resistance/pressure loss ix 4x. The 3.5" vs. 3" would be roughly 54% of the pressure drop. The only drawback is fitting the bigger tubing in a crowded engine compartment.
03-05-2007, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Lonnies Performance
Actually larger will not hurt & may even help if you are over 800 or so HP. If I'm using someting bigger than a D1 then I opt for 3.5"
The high velocity of air in the tubing will cause some pressure drop between the charger & the engine, even though the charger may have a 3" outlet.
If you figure a 2000cfm charger pushing 15# boost, the velocity of the air is moving at over 230mph at max charger output. This causes a lot of frictional losses. The same system with 3.5" tubing would be roughly 170mph velocity.
The inlet tubing is even worse as it effects the chargers ability to pump air.
Resistance increases at roughly the square of the speed, meaning when you double the speed, the resistance/pressure loss ix 4x. The 3.5" vs. 3" would be roughly 54% of the pressure drop. The only drawback is fitting the bigger tubing in a crowded engine compartment.
The high velocity of air in the tubing will cause some pressure drop between the charger & the engine, even though the charger may have a 3" outlet.
If you figure a 2000cfm charger pushing 15# boost, the velocity of the air is moving at over 230mph at max charger output. This causes a lot of frictional losses. The same system with 3.5" tubing would be roughly 170mph velocity.
The inlet tubing is even worse as it effects the chargers ability to pump air.
Resistance increases at roughly the square of the speed, meaning when you double the speed, the resistance/pressure loss ix 4x. The 3.5" vs. 3" would be roughly 54% of the pressure drop. The only drawback is fitting the bigger tubing in a crowded engine compartment.
03-05-2007, 10:59 PM
#11
If you were planning future mods, & did not already have a 3" setup (either due to a custom front mount IC or you were planning on future upgrades), I would consider a custom 3.5" setup.
At your level, it is not necessary, but it definitely will not hurt. I cannot tell what gains it would be worth over 3" as I have never did any comparisons.
If you are buying new tubing anyway, then 3.5" is the logical choice, or if you said, "I want 1000hp someday" then definitely.
Look at the intended routing & keep in mind the bends are a much larger radius, so fitting it in the car will be harder. I did my own car in 3.5" & it was not easy. In some places I had to use 3.5" oval for clearance.
At your level, it is not necessary, but it definitely will not hurt. I cannot tell what gains it would be worth over 3" as I have never did any comparisons.
If you are buying new tubing anyway, then 3.5" is the logical choice, or if you said, "I want 1000hp someday" then definitely.
Look at the intended routing & keep in mind the bends are a much larger radius, so fitting it in the car will be harder. I did my own car in 3.5" & it was not easy. In some places I had to use 3.5" oval for clearance.
03-07-2007, 12:08 AM
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Spoke with Procharger. They said it should not hurt performance going to the 3.5" tubing. With that said I think I'll do 4" on the Intake side, then 3.5" out of the compressor to 3" entering the IC and then back to 3.5" to the throttle body.Wish me luck with finding room for all of it!
