500hp on the street=Suspension??
03-12-2007, 01:03 AM
#1
500hp on the street=Suspension?? Alright guys, here's the deal. I should have my L92/L76'd LS2 402 done this week. I have a custom ground cam in the 24x range and am hoping to kiss 500hp, but will be happy with 480. Torque numbers will be very similar, in the 450-480 range. What suspension mods must I do in order to USE all this power? I have already planned on a Stage 3 Performabuilt trans and a 12-bolt, but what now?
Should I go with a 6pt cage and skip the SFCs? Both are not needed, right?
What could I do to reduce wheel hop, etc. This is a going to be a daily driven stoplight warrior. The last thing I want to do is lose to a Lightnight because I spun through 1st.
I know I need new shocks/struts. What Shock/spring combo is an optimal traction-goal-oriented setup?
What other things do you all reccommend?
List the type of part and then your preferred maker/vendor. Thanks
Should I go with a 6pt cage and skip the SFCs? Both are not needed, right?
What could I do to reduce wheel hop, etc. This is a going to be a daily driven stoplight warrior. The last thing I want to do is lose to a Lightnight because I spun through 1st.
I know I need new shocks/struts. What Shock/spring combo is an optimal traction-goal-oriented setup?
What other things do you all reccommend?
List the type of part and then your preferred maker/vendor. Thanks
03-12-2007, 07:21 AM
#2
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No struts on 4th gens (someone invariably comes in here just to say that, so let me go ahead and get that out of the way)
Shocks:
Bilstein HD if you know you will keep stock springs
Revalved Bilsteins matched to specific aftermarket springs
Or Koni SA if you want to be able to use whatever springs you like.
(Note: Some people will say that you do not want the aforementioned shocks for your car since you appear to be interested in straight line performance, however you said yourself you want a street car. Good quality handling shocks will handle and ride and be safer on the street, they may not be the best for weight transfer, but it doesnt look like you'll be running wrinkle-walls and skinnies that much)
Springs:
Stay away from anything that drops you more than 1.5 inches. Make sure the spring rate increases according to the amount of drop, if you go that way. Nothing wrong with the stock springs. If you want a lower look you can keep the stockers, use Koni SA's and hose mod (search) thats what I do and its good for about 3/4 of an inch drop, which really is noticable, yet still very driveable.
Stop Spinning:
Tires. Don't be fooled. Tires are what spin or dont spin.
Precautionary:
LCA's- The stockers are designed so that they can twist as they must do to keep the suspension from binding and trying to twist sheet metal. However, the U-shape stamping can act a bit like a pogo stick when it gets pushed real hard, causing wheel hop. Double rod end are the best for performance (both handling and drag) and the worst for ride comfort. Poly-rod combo are acceptable. Stay away from anything that does not allow the LCA to twist as it needs to do. UMI is a popular brand. You can easily make your own double rod-end lca's for cheap also, no welding or anything.
Torque Arm: Lots of things to consider here. In my opinion, nothing is more annoying for a daily driver than an aftermarket torque arm. The full length UMI torque arm allows you to retain the stock rubber bushing which will be the most comfortable. Then there are a host of others that range from causing minor console rattling to turning the floor boards into a 4 foot subwoofer.
Chassis Integrity:
You will find excellent people who swear by LCA's and equally excellent people who say they're nothing more than 30Lb jacking rails. Same goes for Roll-cages on the street. However the rollcage is more of a safety issure. Supposedly several heads have been cracked open over the years because no one wears a helmet on the street. (Roll bar padding is not designed to protect your head, just your helmet.)
Just for fun:
While you're at it, I suggest you get Strano's swaybars. They're huge and not to expensive and they'll make your car handle so well (in combination with good shocks) that they'll turn the most dedicated drag racer into an autocrosser.
Also with that. A rod end PHB does not usually cause any passenger discomfort and is really helpful in the corners. Also a good bang for the buck.
Have fun, be safe
Shocks:
Bilstein HD if you know you will keep stock springs
Revalved Bilsteins matched to specific aftermarket springs
Or Koni SA if you want to be able to use whatever springs you like.
(Note: Some people will say that you do not want the aforementioned shocks for your car since you appear to be interested in straight line performance, however you said yourself you want a street car. Good quality handling shocks will handle and ride and be safer on the street, they may not be the best for weight transfer, but it doesnt look like you'll be running wrinkle-walls and skinnies that much)
Springs:
Stay away from anything that drops you more than 1.5 inches. Make sure the spring rate increases according to the amount of drop, if you go that way. Nothing wrong with the stock springs. If you want a lower look you can keep the stockers, use Koni SA's and hose mod (search) thats what I do and its good for about 3/4 of an inch drop, which really is noticable, yet still very driveable.
Stop Spinning:
Tires. Don't be fooled. Tires are what spin or dont spin.
Precautionary:
LCA's- The stockers are designed so that they can twist as they must do to keep the suspension from binding and trying to twist sheet metal. However, the U-shape stamping can act a bit like a pogo stick when it gets pushed real hard, causing wheel hop. Double rod end are the best for performance (both handling and drag) and the worst for ride comfort. Poly-rod combo are acceptable. Stay away from anything that does not allow the LCA to twist as it needs to do. UMI is a popular brand. You can easily make your own double rod-end lca's for cheap also, no welding or anything.
Torque Arm: Lots of things to consider here. In my opinion, nothing is more annoying for a daily driver than an aftermarket torque arm. The full length UMI torque arm allows you to retain the stock rubber bushing which will be the most comfortable. Then there are a host of others that range from causing minor console rattling to turning the floor boards into a 4 foot subwoofer.
Chassis Integrity:
You will find excellent people who swear by LCA's and equally excellent people who say they're nothing more than 30Lb jacking rails. Same goes for Roll-cages on the street. However the rollcage is more of a safety issure. Supposedly several heads have been cracked open over the years because no one wears a helmet on the street. (Roll bar padding is not designed to protect your head, just your helmet.)
Just for fun:
While you're at it, I suggest you get Strano's swaybars. They're huge and not to expensive and they'll make your car handle so well (in combination with good shocks) that they'll turn the most dedicated drag racer into an autocrosser.
Also with that. A rod end PHB does not usually cause any passenger discomfort and is really helpful in the corners. Also a good bang for the buck.
Have fun, be safe
03-12-2007, 07:59 AM
#3
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^^^ That was a pretty good write up.
If your only going to have a street car and dont intend on any track time then I would wait for the cage. Obviously if you go faster than a 10.5 "I believe" at the track then you have to have at least a 6 pt cage but if your just making a street machine then its not necessary.
My car has the following:
.boxed lower control arms with bolt in relocator brackets- recommended
.weld in subframe connectors- recommended especially if you have t-tops
.aftermarket torque arm, the one that connects to the tranny still- its ok but the other style seems to take more stress
.stock Bilsteins and stock shocks
.aftermarket panhard rod
.driveshaft safety loop- recommended
I think thats about it but I also run DR's so that helps from spinning quite so much.
If your only going to have a street car and dont intend on any track time then I would wait for the cage. Obviously if you go faster than a 10.5 "I believe" at the track then you have to have at least a 6 pt cage but if your just making a street machine then its not necessary.
My car has the following:
.boxed lower control arms with bolt in relocator brackets- recommended
.weld in subframe connectors- recommended especially if you have t-tops
.aftermarket torque arm, the one that connects to the tranny still- its ok but the other style seems to take more stress
.stock Bilsteins and stock shocks
.aftermarket panhard rod
.driveshaft safety loop- recommended
I think thats about it but I also run DR's so that helps from spinning quite so much.
03-12-2007, 12:10 PM
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Yes, the roll cage isnt really going to add to the rigidity of the car that much. It is mainly for safety reasons so if you do flip the car, the roof doesnt cave in!!
SFCs are to keep the car from twisting since its a unibody.
SFCs are to keep the car from twisting since its a unibody.
03-12-2007, 12:10 PM
#6
Setting up the car to hook completly opposite of getting it to turn. I'de try posting in the drag racing tech section for help on his since most people in here are focused on handling. Getting 500rwhp to hook on the street is going to be pretty damn hard, and I hope your willing to drive around on a 28" m/t drag radial all the time.
03-12-2007, 12:11 PM
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you don't NEED anything.. the car is in one piece now, isnt it? And its not likely 500hp is going to tear it in two.
However, some people are concerned about the infamous "torque dimples" which as near as I can tell, most cars practically come with them from the factory and its only a minor cosmetic imperfection.. in other words, it really doesnt bother me. And i'm convinced (others are not) that SFC's and roll cages don't really prevent this.
Others are more concerned with the chassis twisting and robbing power. On a street car, with at best drag radials, I don't think this is a very big deal
But for myself and most others, I would imagine, the biggest reason for SFC's and for a 6pt cage to a lesser degree (the biggest reason for the latter is probably track regulations) is to make the car *feel* better, fewer rattles and sakes over bumps. But for this, good shocks often negate or greatly reduce the difference one feels with the addition of SFC's or a cage.
Having said all of that... its really up to you. If you put a cage in and still feel that chassis integrity is lacking, add some subframe connectors. If you like it the way it is, then dont add sfc's. Or if you do it in the other order...
Remember you don't have to do all of this stuff all at once, a lot of people do and they end up wasting money on things they dont really need because someone gave them a formula...
This + This + This + This = exactly what everyone must buy immediately
Don't give into the formula! Far better to gradually work towards your goal, identifying actual problems that need to be addressed, understanding the reason behind the parts before you buy them, etc.
However, some people are concerned about the infamous "torque dimples" which as near as I can tell, most cars practically come with them from the factory and its only a minor cosmetic imperfection.. in other words, it really doesnt bother me. And i'm convinced (others are not) that SFC's and roll cages don't really prevent this.
Others are more concerned with the chassis twisting and robbing power. On a street car, with at best drag radials, I don't think this is a very big deal
But for myself and most others, I would imagine, the biggest reason for SFC's and for a 6pt cage to a lesser degree (the biggest reason for the latter is probably track regulations) is to make the car *feel* better, fewer rattles and sakes over bumps. But for this, good shocks often negate or greatly reduce the difference one feels with the addition of SFC's or a cage.
Having said all of that... its really up to you. If you put a cage in and still feel that chassis integrity is lacking, add some subframe connectors. If you like it the way it is, then dont add sfc's. Or if you do it in the other order...
Remember you don't have to do all of this stuff all at once, a lot of people do and they end up wasting money on things they dont really need because someone gave them a formula...
This + This + This + This = exactly what everyone must buy immediately
Don't give into the formula! Far better to gradually work towards your goal, identifying actual problems that need to be addressed, understanding the reason behind the parts before you buy them, etc.