View Full Version : Question on the good ol 10-bolt and future mods...


Rawr256
03-13-2007, 02:27 PM
When and why did some of you replace yours? Are you still running on it today? What mods do you have? You go with the 9" or 12 bolt?

I am debating over doing a cam swap this summer sometime, but I don't want to unload money on a swap and then have the car leave me stranded because I didn't take the precatuion of getting a strong rear end for it before hand.

With the car right now I am planning on hitting the 400 RWHP mark with bolt-ons and cam, maybe with heads if I dont hit the 400 mark. After that will probably do some boost and thinking the TTi kit with a built 408 would be the way to go, after that I would expect to need the new rear end.

Any suggestions or input? Should I just skip past the cam and go straight for the boost? Would like to kind of deep my fingers in a little bit of everything and say that I have done it at least once! ;)

My1st Truck
03-13-2007, 03:13 PM
If you have a 6 speed do not get a 12 bolt, I broke mine twice and I am now rolling the stock 10 bolt until I can get a Dana 60.
I have the following.
LS6 Intake, Mac Mid-lengths, no cats, Mcleod twin disk, 100 shot. Ellis is installing a 228/232 .58x 58x on a 112 LSA as we speak. I just baby it out of the hole and don't power shift. I have not had any problems with my 10 bolt yet, but I have a spare one also.
Just don't hammer it everyday.

silverbullet02
03-13-2007, 03:42 PM
Like Mike said, if you have a 6-spd, just don't hammer the shifts and launches. And if you wanna do a cam before you do a turbo...do a turbo cam...then add the turbo!

sardog46
03-13-2007, 03:57 PM
If you have a 6 speed do not get a 12 bolt, I broke mine twice and I am now rolling the stock 10 bolt until I can get a Dana 60.
I have the following.
LS6 Intake, Mac Mid-lengths, no cats, Mcleod twin disk, 100 shot. Ellis is installing a 228/232 .58x 58x on a 112 LSA as we speak. I just baby it out of the hole and don't power shift. I have not had any problems with my 10 bolt yet, but I have a spare one also.
Just don't hammer it everyday.


What did you break on your 12 bolt?

I swaped to a 9" with cam only. I had 4.10' with the six speed and broke my first set of 10 bolt gears with just a hotcam and sticky tires. the second time i exploded the posi with a hotcam and 100 shot on slicks. the problem is not the rearend it is the small ring and pinion gear and small ass posi unit. If someone made a spool and you could fit a diffrent size ring gear for the 10 bolt it would probely hold up to alot more abuse than it does.

If i had it to do over again the first thing i would have done was the 9inch then gone foward with the engine build. if you do the engine first then you are just wasting time cause eventaily the rear will go.

just my 2 cents

Rawr256
03-13-2007, 04:16 PM
Like Mike said, if you have a 6-spd, just don't hammer the shifts and launches. And if you wanna do a cam before you do a turbo...do a turbo cam...then add the turbo!

Thought a turbo cam had more duration between the exhaust and intake than a normal cam? Car would more than likely run fine with it but probably wouldn't see max gains from it without a turbo behind it.

From what I can tell with cams between a S/C and Turbo, a S/C cam can have similar specs as a N/A cam because it just feeds the air, it doesn't need the exhaust to work from, correct?

Unless I am at the track or find someone to play with I don't maximize my shifts if I go WOT, usually I cut short around 4500 - 5000 range. When Launching this last year I was taking off at 2000 because I had bad tires and didn't want to maximize my spin on the line, you know it is bad when you are cutting 2.36 0-60! :bang:

Rottluver
03-13-2007, 05:45 PM
I babied mine the 2 times I ran it at the track with a 10 bolt and didn't drive like a douche bag on the streets and my 10 bolt went out at 30k give or take........was completely rebuilt (under warranty) and started going again about 6-7 thousand miles later........and my car was a 6-speed with just bolt ons...stock cam, heads, no turbo/supercharger or nitrous. :(

Rokko
03-13-2007, 06:20 PM
I babied mine the 2 times I ran it at the track with a 10 bolt and didn't drive like a douche bag on the streets and my 10 bolt went out at 30k give or take........was completely rebuilt (under warranty) and started going again about 6-7 thousand miles later........and my car was a 6-speed with just bolt ons...stock cam, heads, no turbo/supercharger or nitrous. :(

How does a douche bag not drive like one?? :jest:

J/K, sorry dude, couldn't pass that one up! :D

Rawr256
03-13-2007, 06:23 PM
I babied mine the 2 times I ran it at the track with a 10 bolt and didn't drive like a douche bag on the streets and my 10 bolt went out at 30k give or take........was completely rebuilt (under warranty) and started going again about 6-7 thousand miles later........and my car was a 6-speed with just bolt ons...stock cam, heads, no turbo/supercharger or nitrous. :(

Honestly it sounds like every other bit of GM machinery in that span of years, engine is stout but anything else behind it seems to be hit or miss on reliability. :(

I hear the same thing with the GTP's, tranny will go for some people 300+k miles with no issues, others it will go out within 50k miles of brand new ownership behind no abuse. Even my dad's van is haveing issues (same tranny) and he had it rebuilt at 80kish miles and now it is nearing 150k miles and doing the same thing it was back than.

Seems they have gotten their act together on some of this stuff, if the aftermarket can figure it out, why can't they? :eyes:

Oh well, guess they are machines and eventually the machine has to break right!? :judge:

Rawr256
03-13-2007, 06:24 PM
How does a douche bag not drive like one?? :jest:

J/K, sorry dude, couldn't pass that one up! :D

Thems be fighting words!!! :jest:

Rokko
03-13-2007, 06:24 PM
I'm on my second rebuild, it was rebuilt under warranty like Rott's was. It's making noise again. Luckily I have an auto so it should last a bit longer. But when it goes out, and it will go out, I'm just going to charge a 12-bolt/9-inch/Dana-60 on a credit card and be done with it.

My1st Truck
03-13-2007, 06:41 PM
oh mine is loud, but it isn't clunky...it just wines...Just get a louder exhaust and you won't be able to hear it...:jest:

Rockin C Racing
03-13-2007, 06:59 PM
On my lowly LT1 with just the stroker motor, I first broke 2 teeth off the pinion (I think it was a flaw in the casting), then 1 1/2 years later, I broke 2 teeth on the ring and took out the posi at the same time. Since then (3 years) I had tjwong rebuild it with a locker and TA girdle and have had ZERO problems. The thing is, it is an automatic and I do drag race it often with slicks. Not saying to stick with the 10 bolt, just giving my experience with mine.

99blancoSS
03-13-2007, 07:06 PM
Welded the pinion bearing to the shaft, cam only tr224. Had it rebuilt with 373's then sold it after I added heads before I broke it again. Now running a 9" with Strange center section and Moser housing and axles 3.89 gears from sponsor Drive Line Solutions

Rawr256
03-13-2007, 07:11 PM
I'm on my second rebuild, it was rebuilt under warranty like Rott's was. It's making noise again. Luckily I have an auto so it should last a bit longer. But when it goes out, and it will go out, I'm just going to charge a 12-bolt/9-inch/Dana-60 on a credit card and be done with it.

I have heard of the Dana-60, but not seen many with it, or have I? What is the difference between that and the other two? 12-bolt my guess was just a larger 10 bolt basically, the 9-inch is basically a Ford rear-end.

I have heard of the 12-bolts breaking, 9-inch, don't think I have heard of one breaking, even on high power applications.

99blancoSS
03-13-2007, 07:17 PM
9" isnt a Ford per say. Its a 9" made by Moser or Strange for the fbody. The dana has had issues as well. Talk to Scott at DLS to have it all explained. I was thinking about going with the Dana and after speaking with him I chose the Strange/Moser instead and he builds and sells Dana's so it wasnt a money thing. Give him a call and leave your number. He'll get back to you.

Poik
03-13-2007, 07:22 PM
Throw a spool in and see what breaks?

Rottluver
03-14-2007, 04:45 PM
How does a douche bag not drive like one?? :jest:

J/K, sorry dude, couldn't pass that one up! :D
Don't make me have my dog get you all muddy again!!!! ;) :jest:
Honestly it sounds like every other bit of GM machinery in that span of years, engine is stout but anything else behind it seems to be hit or miss on reliability. :(

I hear the same thing with the GTP's, tranny will go for some people 300+k miles with no issues, others it will go out within 50k miles of brand new ownership behind no abuse. Even my dad's van is haveing issues (same tranny) and he had it rebuilt at 80kish miles and now it is nearing 150k miles and doing the same thing it was back than.

Seems they have gotten their act together on some of this stuff, if the aftermarket can figure it out, why can't they? :eyes:

Oh well, guess they are machines and eventually the machine has to break right!? :judge:
Pretty much.....for every 25 horror stories about 10 bolts, someone will tell you one or two about how they had or knew someone who had a 10 bolt that stood up to 500 track passes with a 450 rwhp car........hell, mine made 350 to the rear wheels and destroyed two 10 bolts. :( Just the nature of the beast.
oh mine is loud, but it isn't clunky...it just wines...Just get a louder exhaust and you won't be able to hear it...:jest:
When mine was going out the first time, I had the SLP Loud Mouth and it didn't cover it up...then I got long tubes and true duals and THAT didn't cover it up....the 1200 mile drive from LA to Seattle when I moved SUCKED with that growling/whining/shitty noise. :(
I have heard of the Dana-60, but not seen many with it, or have I? What is the difference between that and the other two? 12-bolt my guess was just a larger 10 bolt basically, the 9-inch is basically a Ford rear-end.

I have heard of the 12-bolts breaking, 9-inch, don't think I have heard of one breaking, even on high power applications.
Dana 60 is supposed to be reallllly good. If I still had my car, that is what I would put in it.......12 bolts seem to have some issues with various 6-speed cars........9 inch is good as well, but I am partial to the Dana. To each their own. :nod:

Mikey 97Z M6
03-14-2007, 08:55 PM
The word "good" and "10 bolt" do not belong in the same sentence unless you say something like; The only "good" use for a "10 bolt" is metal recycling. ;)


Throw a spool in and see what breaks?

Hmmmm just a shot in the dark here:
Gears greater than 3.73's = broken pinion / maybe pinion bearings
Gears less than 3.73's = torn-up pinion bearings
Any variant = broken axle shaft (C-clip design should be fun @ speed)

All this assumes you have enough power/traction to actually move the car, unlike mine..... :) My current 10 bolt has lived a long,,, looooong time lol.... :jest:

Mike

NWDragRacer
03-15-2007, 12:01 AM
I have heard of the Dana-60, but not seen many with it, or have I? What is the difference between that and the other two? 12-bolt my guess was just a larger 10 bolt basically, the 9-inch is basically a Ford rear-end.

I have heard of the 12-bolts breaking, 9-inch, don't think I have heard of one breaking, even on high power applications.

I think I'm qualified to comment here since I've broken every rear end that I've ever raced - including my Dana 60. :eek2:

The difference between the rears is the ring gear diameter.

10 bolt - 7 3/4" not sure in this one, but you get the idea
12 bolt - 8 7/8"
Ford 9" - duh
Dana 60 - 9 3/4"

The ring diameters in fuel cars is currently around 11" :judge:

Poik
03-15-2007, 12:03 AM
I think the 10 bolt is 7 5/8" but I could be wrong, just a little bigger than the Dana 30 which I think is 7.5".

sidewayz28
03-15-2007, 01:49 AM
im still on the stock rear end/clutch with heads/cam/intake.. but a new clutch will be here tommorow, after the heads/intake the clutch began to crap out.. ill be getting a rear end over the summer when i can afford one

esoteric
03-15-2007, 02:40 AM
Even for a Mustang, I always recommend that mods start from the back of the car. Fox bodies after '85 had factory 8.8's (12 bolt to you), but the gear ratios offered were useless: 2.73's or 3.08's. Given the weight of a Camaro and amount of power the LS1's make, a 10 bolt is criminal. For a foxbody, the 8.8 was installed in a T Bird Tubo coupe with 3.73 gears and it's a bolt in. Aren't there any GM doner vehicles? You guys have more interchangeability than we Ford guys... at least I thought you did.

Mikey 97Z M6
03-15-2007, 11:59 AM
You guys have more interchangeability than we Ford guys... at least I thought you did.

Engine/trans platforms yes, from the transmission back,,, no. GM used to offer the ring gear with a 8.5" diameter, but that version of the 10 bolt hasn't been offered on a fbody since,,,, 1981?

Mike

Ryan K
03-15-2007, 12:46 PM
6-Speed or Auto? Answer that one please... I am guessing 6-speed. If so, do the rear end first... other wise you're just waiting money. I recommend the 9" personaly.

If you are auto, you can live with the 10-bolt for a good bit of time.

esoteric
03-15-2007, 10:03 PM
Engine/trans platforms yes, from the transmission back,,, no. GM used to offer the ring gear with a 10.5" diameter, but that version of the 10 bolt hasn't been offered on a fbody since,,,, 1981?

Mike

What set-up do the last El Caminoes come with? I am in the market for one and would like to know the cost of upgrades.

NWDragRacer
03-15-2007, 11:13 PM
Engine/trans platforms yes, from the transmission back,,, no. GM used to offer the ring gear with a 10.5" diameter, but that version of the 10 bolt hasn't been offered on a fbody since,,,, 1981?

Mike

10.5 - maybe on the trucks, but never in a passenger car. The 12 bolt 8 7/8 is the largest ever offered.

Mikey 97Z M6
03-16-2007, 02:02 AM
10.5 - maybe on the trucks, but never in a passenger car. The 12 bolt 8 7/8 is the largest ever offered.

Oops, LOL,, ya that might be a bit overkill huh. 8.5" sounds closer... :) Had 10 (bolt) on the brain, and tranferred to text I guess. :jest:

Mike

DrEvyl
03-16-2007, 03:43 AM
I'm still running the same old 10-bolt I've had in there since 2003.

WAHUSKER
03-16-2007, 10:06 AM
If you are going FI in the future, you will need a 9" or a Dana 60. You can spend about $1k on a 10 bolt & make them relatively stout, but not enough for the torque a turbo makes. Call Danny @ NW Differentials & get it done right the 1st time.

The other thing you NEED to do is beef up your suspension. LCAs, Torque Arm, good shocks, etc will help your rear end live longer (reduces wheel hop which is the killer).

Rawr256
03-16-2007, 01:38 PM
Ryan, is a M6. I read JRP's newbie FAQ about the cars 5x+ before I bought the car and opted for the M6 because I wasn't to fond of doing a auto and rearend down the road, though I will most likely have to do a M6 eventually, plus the M6 does add to the fun factor for me! :)

If you are going FI in the future, you will need a 9" or a Dana 60. You can spend about $1k on a 10 bolt & make them relatively stout, but not enough for the torque a turbo makes. Call Danny @ NW Differentials & get it done right the 1st time.

The other thing you NEED to do is beef up your suspension. LCAs, Torque Arm, good shocks, etc will help your rear end live longer (reduces wheel hop which is the killer).

Thanks for the tips on the suspension. Will look at doing that at about the same time or before hand.

Looks like instead of saving up for a kit first I will get the suspension all handled. ;)

Thanks guys!