Twins + E85?
03-15-2007, 03:34 PM
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Twins + E85? How many guys are using the E85 with their turbo project?
I'm finishing up collecting all the parts for my turbo project, and actually already ordered 60lb injectors. I'm looking for 650-700 whp... However, the otehr day i noticed that E85 was 1.99 a gallon and 93 is 2.79 in Pittsburgh nowadays... That coupled with the higher octane of E85, is really making me second guess my decision about teh 60#ers... Do you think the 60# injectors would be enough for that kind of HP with E85, or am i not going to be able to push enough fuel through them???
If i'd do it, i'd end up with 2 tunes... a 93 octane tune, and an E85 tune for use when possible.
I'm finishing up collecting all the parts for my turbo project, and actually already ordered 60lb injectors. I'm looking for 650-700 whp... However, the otehr day i noticed that E85 was 1.99 a gallon and 93 is 2.79 in Pittsburgh nowadays... That coupled with the higher octane of E85, is really making me second guess my decision about teh 60#ers... Do you think the 60# injectors would be enough for that kind of HP with E85, or am i not going to be able to push enough fuel through them???
If i'd do it, i'd end up with 2 tunes... a 93 octane tune, and an E85 tune for use when possible.
03-15-2007, 03:56 PM
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On gas your safe number would be 800hp at the flywheel, so the E85 is going to need bigger injectors. On the engine dyno here I ran a couple of boosted tests, it seemed to need about 20% more fuel to do the same work. That would put the 75 lb hr injector as a good starting point I would guess.
I need premium fuel in my truck at 12-14 mpg, so I have had some of the same thoughts!
Kurt
I need premium fuel in my truck at 12-14 mpg, so I have had some of the same thoughts!
Kurt
03-15-2007, 04:53 PM
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I really want to play with E85, unfortunately for me there isn't much available to me. Closes station that sells it is 60 miles away. It would be easy to have 2 different tunes and switch back and forth once EFILive releases the standalone flashing for my V2. I've even though about buying a 60 gallon tank to put in the back of my truck for E85, so I can switch between the two.
03-15-2007, 05:39 PM
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there was that turbo cobra that got over 200rwhp more with a tune for e85, its on turbomustangs.com seems promising, but there are no stations here in orlando
03-15-2007, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by 427
On gas your safe number would be 800hp at the flywheel, so the E85 is going to need bigger injectors. On the engine dyno here I ran a couple of boosted tests, it seemed to need about 20% more fuel to do the same work. That would put the 75 lb hr injector as a good starting point I would guess.
I need premium fuel in my truck at 12-14 mpg, so I have had some of the same thoughts!
Kurt
I need premium fuel in my truck at 12-14 mpg, so I have had some of the same thoughts!
Kurt
How much will the 75lb'r support on e-85 then? Also can you somewhat band-aid it a little with increased fuel psi? How are the 75lb injectors at part throttle etc? I had heard of one size of injector that was difficult to tune and thought it was the 75..
It's good to be in the #1 Ethanol producing state in the country
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03-16-2007, 09:14 AM
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On gas you could make 1000hp safe with the 75's, so E85 at 800hp should still have a safety factor on that injector. I am using 80% duty cycle in my "guesses", you might make more if you are willing to be the first Test guy!!
I have never used any of the 75 injectors first hand, so I am not sure on the ability of these to idle or drive well. I have 60,000 miles on my truck with the Mototron 60lb hr and really like the drivability/idle quality, so I would like to keep using these also, but they just can't flow what I need!!
Kurt
I have never used any of the 75 injectors first hand, so I am not sure on the ability of these to idle or drive well. I have 60,000 miles on my truck with the Mototron 60lb hr and really like the drivability/idle quality, so I would like to keep using these also, but they just can't flow what I need!!
Kurt
Originally Posted by PHIL H
Kurt,
How much will the 75lb'r support on e-85 then? Also can you somewhat band-aid it a little with increased fuel psi? How are the 75lb injectors at part throttle etc? I had heard of one size of injector that was difficult to tune and thought it was the 75..
How much will the 75lb'r support on e-85 then? Also can you somewhat band-aid it a little with increased fuel psi? How are the 75lb injectors at part throttle etc? I had heard of one size of injector that was difficult to tune and thought it was the 75..
03-16-2007, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by 427
On gas your safe number would be 800hp at the flywheel, so the E85 is going to need bigger injectors. On the engine dyno here I ran a couple of boosted tests, it seemed to need about 20% more fuel to do the same work. That would put the 75 lb hr injector as a good starting point I would guess.
I need premium fuel in my truck at 12-14 mpg, so I have had some of the same thoughts!
Kurt
I need premium fuel in my truck at 12-14 mpg, so I have had some of the same thoughts!
Kurt
Don't feel bad, I have a 6.0 Ford diesel and get 9 mpg @ 2.89 a gallon!!
What a heap of _ _ _ _ !!!
03-16-2007, 09:20 AM
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The engine can safetly produce 800hp at the flywheel with that injectors flow rate, how well your car delivers it to the tire is unknown.
Kurt
Kurt
Originally Posted by SonofaBish
so you're sayin that the 60#ers are hardly going to be able to supply enough fuel for 700 whp on reg. gas?
03-16-2007, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by 427
The engine can safetly produce 800hp at the flywheel with that injectors flow rate, how well your car delivers it to the tire is unknown.
Kurt
Kurt
03-16-2007, 09:48 AM
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I know that a few people make injector drivers, but no first hand info for you. I would try posting on the section that covers ECU's on this message board, I am sure that many are using them and can give first hand info.
Kurt
Kurt
Originally Posted by SonofaBish
hmm... well i'm really interested in the E85.. and i havent had much luck finding anything on the ECM mods needed to run low impedance injectors (larger than 60#).... any info?
03-16-2007, 04:56 PM
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I do my guesses like this.
96 X 8 cylinder= 768lbs of fuel
768X2=1536hp @ .5 brake 100% duty cycle
1536X .8+1228.8hp safe on gas. 80% duty cycle for inj safety
1228.8X .8 again=983hp delivering 20% more fuel, E85
So 96 lb hour would support about a 1000hp E85 with safe duty cycle in my mind. There probably is a easier way to caculate this, but this logic has worked for me so far!!
Kurt
96 X 8 cylinder= 768lbs of fuel
768X2=1536hp @ .5 brake 100% duty cycle
1536X .8+1228.8hp safe on gas. 80% duty cycle for inj safety
1228.8X .8 again=983hp delivering 20% more fuel, E85
So 96 lb hour would support about a 1000hp E85 with safe duty cycle in my mind. There probably is a easier way to caculate this, but this logic has worked for me so far!!
Kurt
Originally Posted by smokinHawk
all you need is an impedance converter, then change your tables in the pcm a little.
any thoughts to how much some 96lb'ers can support with ethonal. Im wanting to try it out this summer.
any thoughts to how much some 96lb'ers can support with ethonal. Im wanting to try it out this summer.
03-17-2007, 10:51 AM
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What else would be changed to swap over to E85, is there a minimum base fuel pressure or anything? How is timing affected going from straight 110 to E85 for example, is it pretty similar? E85 is like 104 unleaded I have heard?
03-17-2007, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Pro Stock John
What else would be changed to swap over to E85, is there a minimum base fuel pressure or anything? How is timing affected going from straight 110 to E85 for example, is it pretty similar? E85 is like 104 unleaded I have heard?
turbo mustang said they added 40% more fuel right off the bat and ended up right about 20% over the whole thing with more timing (going from 93-e85) the article got taken own, but if anyone can email and admin on turbomustang.com im sure its backed somewhere
its on this link, but they are all broken
http://www.turbomustangs.com/turbofaq.php
Last edited by Hennytime; 03-17-2007 at 12:57 PM.
03-17-2007, 09:11 PM
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My procharged combo is on FMS 150's We have a fjo controller to change the impediance. But we are pushing over 1200 horse right now with 63-66% duty cycles.
