Special Edition Vehicles - Dick Harrell Camaro VS 427 ZL1 Camaro

What can you tell me about the 2? Price, production #'s, power, performance, 1/4 time, ect...


I know the DH cars also came w/ a 427, was this the same engine? Any difference in the 2 cars performance/power wise? Were the Dick Harrell Camaros also 2002s like the ZL1s? I also know the DH cars came w/ a roll cage, the ZL1 im not so sure about.

What can you tell me about the 2? Price, production #'s, power, performance, 1/4 time, ect...


I know the DH cars also came w/ a 427, was this the same engine? Any difference in the 2 cars performance/power wise? Were the Dick Harrell Camaros also 2002s like the ZL1s? I also know the DH cars came w/ a roll cage, the ZL1 im not so sure about.

The D.H. Camaros were ordered just like the 02 ZL1's. You could have a Phase I 400 H.P. LS6, a Phase II 475. H.P. LS6, a Phase III 630 H.P. C5R (as I remember) or a Phase III "off-road" C5R 680 H.P. package. Hopefully my memory serves me correct. Performance/Power should be absolutely the same if both cars were modified the same. If I were to send my car back to Matt and have it Phase III'd, I should be able to have any package they installed on the D.H. cars. The D.H. cars were all 2002 models just like the ZL1's except they weren't all neccessarily B4C cars like all the ZL1's were. The ZL1's could be ordered with a roll bar. I opted not to get one in mine but IF I ever make the decision to send it back and have it Phase III'd, I'll have them add the roll bar too. ALL IT TAKES IS MONEY ! ! ! ! :)

The D.H. Camaros were ordered just like the 02 ZL1's. You could have a Phase I 400 H.P. LS6, a Phase II 475. H.P. LS6, a Phase III 630 H.P. C5R (as I remember) or a Phase III "off-road" C5R 680 H.P. package. Hopefully my memory serves me correct. Performance/Power should be absolutely the same if both cars were modified the same. If I were to send my car back to Matt and have it Phase III'd, I should be able to have any package they installed on the D.H. cars. The D.H. cars were all 2002 models just like the ZL1's except they weren't all neccessarily B4C cars like all the ZL1's were. The ZL1's could be ordered with a roll bar. I opted not to get one in mine but IF I ever make the decision to send it back and have it Phase III'd, I'll have them add the roll bar too. ALL IT TAKES IS MONEY ! ! ! ! :)


Thank you very much for the info!

A) Was that a mis-print or did they make 2 phase III editions?
B) What do you mean by "B4C Cars"?
C) Did either/both start out life as a V6?
D) Any idea on the price ranges?
E) What will they do in the 1/4?

Answer whatever you feel like. Thanks again for the info :)

Thank you very much for the info!

A) Was that a mis-print or did they make 2 phase III editions?
B) What do you mean by "B4C Cars"?
C) Did either/both start out life as a V6?
D) Any idea on the price ranges?
E) What will they do in the 1/4?

Answer whatever you feel like. Thanks again for the info :)

A) There have been a couple of different versions of the Phase III package. The first one started out as 600 h.p. and then I think they made some changes to that it was actually 630 h.p. but they still labeled it at 600 h.p. THEN THERE IS THE OFF-ROAD PACKAGE which as I remember is 680 h.p. After that comes the car that Mike Carahan personally owned and turned into a Grumpy Jenkins Phase IV car with a solid roller and 700 H.P. and they there is "NEW"s Hot Rod Camaro in Norway that is a Phase V 454 c.i. engine and rated at 680 h.p. The guys a GMMG are still experimenting and finding more power.

B) A B4C is a Camaro produced as a special service car i.e., a police car. ALL ZL1's started out this way as this was the closest that Matt could come to duplicating the C.O.P.O. process of the late '60's and early 70's.

C) They could have...............not sure if any of them did. I know at the end of the production run, GMMG and Berger Chevrolet searched the country for new un-sold Camaros to turn into D.H. cars. The eventually were able to track down and purchase 35 cars I believe.

D) I THINK the base price on a Phase I D.H. car was $85,000.

E) As what they will do in the 1/4 would be a question of Mike Carnahan to answer. He is the real expert on all of these GMMG cars since he used to work with/for Matt Murphy and built most of them. :)

****** Mike.................I have probably mis-quoted or mis-represented some things above so if you are following this thread..........please feel free to correct any thing I have said. :)

I just found a cool link...

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/features/0609htp_chevy_camaros/

It gives a fairly detailed explanation of how it came about. Said one of the DH Phase IIIs ran 10.94 pass at 125 mph with a staggering 1.46 short time on slicks! It also said that the cars weighed in under 3000 lbs w/ driver!

A) There have been a couple of different versions of the Phase III package. The first one started out as 600 h.p. and then I think they made some changes to that it was actually 630 h.p. but they still labeled it at 600 h.p. THEN THERE IS THE OFF-ROAD PACKAGE which as I remember is 680 h.p. After that comes the car that Mike Carahan personally owned and turned into a Grumpy Jenkins Phase IV car with a solid roller and 700 H.P. and they there is "NEW"s Hot Rod Camaro in Norway that is a Phase V 454 c.i. engine and rated at 680 h.p. The guys a GMMG are still experimenting and finding more power.

B) A B4C is a Camaro produced as a special service car i.e., a police car. ALL ZL1's started out this way as this was the closest that Matt could come to duplicating the C.O.P.O. process of the late '60's and early 70's.

C) They could have...............not sure if any of them did. I know at the end of the production run, GMMG and Berger Chevrolet searched the country for new un-sold Camaros to turn into D.H. cars. The eventually were able to track down and purchase 35 cars I believe.

D) I THINK the base price on a Phase I D.H. car was $85,000.

E) As what they will do in the 1/4 would be a question of Mike Carnahan to answer. He is the real expert on all of these GMMG cars since he used to work with/for Matt Murphy and built most of them. :)

****** Mike.................I have probably mis-quoted or mis-represented some things above so if you are following this thread..........please feel free to correct any thing I have said. :)


Awesome! Thanks!

I just found a cool link...

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/features/0609htp_chevy_camaros/

Yeah...............I have that magazine. The orange one is Valerie Harrell's car (Dick Harrell's daughter) and the burgundy one is Ron Gowen's. He worked with/for Matt Murphy at GMMG and Mike Carnahan building these cars and the ZL1's.

Mike and Ron went out on their own and now own Vengence Motorsports.

I had no idea they produced/sold them all the way up until 2006!

Yeah...............I have that magazine. The orange one is Valerie Harrell's car (Dick Harrell's daughter) and the burgundy one is Ron Gowen's. He worked with/for Matt Murphy at GMMG and Mike Carnahan building these cars and the ZL1's.

Mike and Ron went out on their own and now own Vengence Motorsports.

I have a dumb question though... the B4C cars. That just meant that GM set appart that group of cars for a specific purpose? Did they put in the motors or did GMMG?

I didnt know if GMMG just scouted out available new Camaros and bought what they wanted & then turned them into DH cars, or GM set aside certain cars FOR GMMG to use as DH cars.

Sorry, im a bit slow at times :)

I had no idea they produced/sold them all the way up until 2006!

Yep..................in fact..................I just spoke with Matt on the telephone this morning and they still have one un-sold D.H. car. It is pewter with an automatic. Nothing has been done to it yet so you could have it built anyway you wanted it.

Originally it was sold but unfortunately the gentleman died before it was built. I believe he was an older gentleman and had a heart condition.

Yep..................in fact..................I just spoke with Matt on the telephone this morning and they still have one un-sold D.H. car. It is pewter with an automatic. Nothing has been done to it yet so you could have it built anyway you wanted it.

Originally it was sold but unfortunately the gentleman died before it was built. I believe he was an older gentleman and had a heart condition.


:faint: If i could, id get it swapped out w/ a T56 and the works.

Man, they could hang on to that car and itd be worth even more of a FORTUNE

I have a dumb question though... the B4C cars. That just meant that GM set appart that group of cars for a specific purpose? Did they put in the motors or did GMMG?

I didnt know if GMMG just scouted out available new Camaros and bought what they wanted & then turned them into DH cars, or GM set aside certain cars FOR GMMG to use as DH cars.

Sorry, im a bit slow at times :)

As for the B4C cars................ALL ZL1'S were built from B4C's as I said above because Matt was trying to follow the C.O.P.O. process as closely as he could and this was the closest he could come to it in 2002. In 1969 the Central Office Production Order was the way you would order fleet, muncipal, police and taxi's. You could get special colors, special engines, special accessories and other special equipment following the C.O.P.O process such as bigger alternators, radiators, different rear-end gearing, etc.
I ordered my car from Berger Chevrolet and it was ordered from the git-go as a B4C car. The B4C cars were only available to police departments but Scott Settlemeir opened them up (at the end of the production run) to GMMG to be modified into the ZL1's. The car was shipped from St. Therese to Georgia by rail and delivered to a dealer close to GMMG. It was then picked up by GMMG and the modification process began. They (GMMG) removed the LS1 engine it came with (which I could have kept but had no use for) and then replaced it with an LS6 crate engine.

As for the D.H. Camaros, as I said above, AFTER the ZL1's were all produced Berger Chevrolet still wanted to do some more Camaros so together, GMMG and Berger came up with the idea for the D.H. cars. Berger scouted out dealers across the country trying to come up with 2002 Camaros. Eventually, as I remember, they rounded up 35 of them. As to whether they were SS's, Z/28's, V-6 cars, etc., I don't know. Again, Mike Carnahan would be more able to answer that question as he worked on most of them. The D.H. cars were exclusive from Berger and Berger Chevrolet only just like the Hot Rod Magazine Camaros and the Berger SS's. The ZL1's were sold to about a dozen different dealers however, Berger Chevrolet sold the lions share of them, 28 of the 69 as I remember.

Thanks J.D. for all of the information. :cool: I read it all before, but wasnt sure about some so I guess I asked the same question twice, sorry. But thanks for the elaboration.

One other question about the DH cars... what did they do for the DH cars and the flared quarter panels on all of the cars beyond the 1st one? Did they cut off the stock ones and weld on the new flared quarters? or what?

I have some pics of that red one..

http://g10.evyl.org/Car_pics/Dick%20Harrel%20drag%20car_1a.jpg

http://g10.evyl.org/Car_pics/Dick%20Harrel%20drag%20car_1b.jpg

http://g10.evyl.org/Car_pics/Dick%20Harrel%20drag%20car_1c.jpg

http://g10.evyl.org/Car_pics/Dick%20Harrel%20drag%20car_1d.jpg

As for the B4C cars................ALL ZL1'S were built from B4C's as I said above because Matt was trying to follow the C.O.P.O. process as closely as he could and this was the closest he could come to it in 2002. In 1969 the Central Office Production Order was the way you would order fleet, muncipal, police and taxi's. You could get special colors, special engines, special accessories and other special equipment following the C.O.P.O process such as bigger alternators, radiators, different rear-end gearing, etc.
I ordered my car from Berger Chevrolet and it was ordered from the git-go as a B4C car. The B4C cars were only available to police departments but Scott Settlemeir opened them up (at the end of the production run) to GMMG to be modified into the ZL1's. The car was shipped from St. Therese to Georgia by rail and delivered to a dealer close to GMMG. It was then picked up by GMMG and the modification process began. They (GMMG) removed the LS1 engine it came with (which I could have kept but had no use for) and then replaced it with an LS6 crate engine.

As for the D.H. Camaros, as I said above, AFTER the ZL1's were all produced Berger Chevrolet still wanted to do some more Camaros so together, GMMG and Berger came up with the idea for the D.H. cars. Berger scouted out dealers across the country trying to come up with 2002 Camaros. Eventually, as I remember, they rounded up 35 of them. As to whether they were SS's, Z/28's, V-6 cars, etc., I don't know. Again, Mike Carnahan would be more able to answer that question as he worked on most of them. The D.H. cars were exclusive from Berger and Berger Chevrolet only just like the Hot Rod Magazine Camaros and the Berger SS's. The ZL1's were sold to about a dozen different dealers however, Berger Chevrolet sold the lions share of them, 28 of the 69 as I remember.


Okay guys DH vs ZL1

DH has GM Widebody kit vs ZL1 standard SS hood and wing
DH has Fiske wheels vs ZL1 Z06 wheels
DH has KONI shocks vs ZL1 Penske Shock
DH come with standard weld on subframe conectors vs ZL1 option
DH 427 P3X 630HP vs ZL1 427 600HP some ZL1's do have P3X options
(different Heads/Cam/Intake porters/Headers ect...)

I am sure I can come up with more but that is the main stuff. Hope this helps.

Oooo I have seen that Red original GMMG car then. I remember it at G9 or G10. Thanks for posting those pics Zeke.

Hey Mike, perhaps you can help me w/ this one:


One other question about the DH cars... what did they do for the DH cars and the flared quarter panels on all of the cars beyond the 1st one? Did they cut off the stock ones and weld on the new flared quarters? or what?

Here are a few pics of the DH cars
I cannot wait to see what GMMG comes out with when the 5th Gen's hit the dealerships :)

http://www.cccfonline.com/G10GMMG09.jpg
http://www.cccfonline.com/g9331.jpg
http://www.cccfonline.com/g9334.jpg
http://www.cccfonline.com/g966.jpg
http://www.cccfonline.com/g968.jpg

Hey Mike, perhaps you can help me w/ this one:

Okay a DH car has new Fenders, Nose, Hood, Spoiler, Rear Bumper now on the Quarters they are molded into the facory ones. A few cars like 3-4 had the full quarters removed to be able to fit BIG DRAG tires like the Drag car in the picture.

Here are a few pics of the DH cars
I cannot wait to see what GMMG comes out with when the 5th Gen's hit the dealerships :)

Actually, I can't wait to see what Vengeance Racing comes up with :devil: !!

Just plain sick!!

Actually, I can't wait to see what Vengeance Racing comes up with :devil: !!

I hope Matt does do a 5th Gen and I hope I can be a part in someway. Matt does a great job of really make unique rare Camaros through the dealer network he has going.

As far as Vengeance is concerned :devil: We will be all over the 5th gen like no other. Believe it or not I already have people with money down to build a 5th Gen.

I hope Matt does do a 5th Gen and I hope I can be a part in someway. Matt does a great job of really make unique rare Camaros through the dealer network he has going.

As far as Vengeance is concerned :devil: We will be all over the 5th gen like no other. Believe it or not I already have people with money down to build a 5th Gen.

I'd believe it Mike................your reputation speaks for itself ! ! ! ! :)

I'd believe it Mike................your reputation speaks for itself ! ! ! ! :)
And then some!!!!

Okay a DH car has new Fenders, Nose, Hood, Spoiler, Rear Bumper now on the Quarters they are molded into the facory ones. A few cars like 3-4 had the full quarters removed to be able to fit BIG DRAG tires like the Drag car in the picture.


Thanks :)

Gotta love those cars.

Here a week or so ago, I spoke with Dick Jacques at Berger Chevrolet and he mentioned to me that they still had one (1) Dick Harrell Camaro that wasn't spoken for yet. Originally it was but unfortunately, the gentleman died before he could take delivery so therefore, nothing has been done to it yet i.e., it remains unconverted. I told Dick Jacques that at this time I wouldn't be interested as I had just built a new home and shop this past summer and spent double what I had originally planned on.

So............this past Friday (in the mail) I received this phamplet in the mail as a "soft" follow up to our conversation. :)

Thought I would scan it and post it here for your enjoyment. Keep in mind, this was a tri-fold pamplet so on the first scan below,the far right page would be the first page, the far left page would be the second and the middle page would be the back of the phamplet. The second scan would be just as shown in the phamplet. :)

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/02zl1_97ss/Dick%20Harrell%20Camaros/Berger-DickHarrellSupercarPhampl-1.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/02zl1_97ss/Dick%20Harrell%20Camaros/Berger-DickHarrellSupercarPhamplet0.jpg

Thanks for sharing. :) So............one more left to be produced. Anyone here ready to set up to the plate?

Go for it Charlie!!!

If I hit the $20 million Wednesday I will take the last one :)

One more left to be produced? Hey Mike, how's that LS7-DH car coming??? Gonna put a solid roller in it?? 700HP? :devil:

This is the Pewter car with an LS6 installed. I think the sticker is $82 or maybe $83K

I just wanna cry becuase I love the DH cars so much! The rear fenders, hood, C5R block, everything! Dammit i wish I had 90G's to blow!

gorgeous cars. love to have one someday!!!

One more left to be produced? Hey Mike, how's that LS7-DH car coming??? Gonna put a solid roller in it?? 700HP? :devil:

Ray not gonna happen but I am sure we can do something with one of your other 10 Camaros

You may have to sprinkle a little salt and pepper on those words Mike. The fat lady ain't sung yet!!

DH's are so sexy, especially the off road version...

Off road? Them ones with them big old Gumbo Mudders on 'em and jacked up about 3 feet? Mud flaps? Winch?