ty_ty13

iTrader: (42)

like the tittle says.... i'm having an issue tunning.... yes i have another thread about it but some one mentioned this in it so i thought i'd see what others thought about it....


can EFIlive and my LM1 read different AFR values? my lm1 screen is reading 13.3ish and my commaned fuel for the idle values are 14.4 ... and when autoVE is in progress it gives a number larger than 1.0


any one else have a problem with their scanner reading leaner/richer than the WB02.... in my case leaner...

ChrisS@sdpc

A couple of things, you should double check the programming of your LM1 and that you have the exact corresponding PID selected. Although it sounds like you have been using it, and this likely not your problem. Have you verified the physical voltage coming out of the LM1? You might try a different ground (and/or double check your ground). Can you post a log?

foff667

iTrader: (2)

it should be as easy as looking at what efilive is reading in the scanner.

jimmyblue

iTrader: (11)

Sure, there are a couple of ways.

One, the analog voltage exported is independent of
the internal display readout. You have to command
the LM-1 output transfer function (if you want other
than default). If you command a different one it may
"forget" on you, esp. if the housekeeping battery has
gone dead.

Then there is the ground offset problem, if the EFILive
"pod" takes its ground from the OBDII connector and
LM1 runs heater ground (mucho return current) into
some other point on the sheet metal there can be a
substantial ground rise locally, the long cables and
the connectors can add to offsets etc. The offset
can be variable with the amount of heater power the
unit needs to throw, so then variable with weather
and driving load-point, and not too amenable to any
simple correction offset or slope factor.

You may want to go as far as soldering in a power/
ground cable for the LM-1 style jack with its ground
at the OBDII connector's source, and the hot some
other fused power (can be big draw and you would
not want to pop the wimp fuse while trying to log).

ty_ty13

iTrader: (42)

on the LM1 it is plugged into the cig. lighter... the only other ground i know of is the analoug out.... the brown bare wire.... its is plugged into the efilive box (thing).... what other ground do i need to look at?

ty_ty13

iTrader: (42)

some one remind me again what the 0-5 voltage needs to be on the lm1...

SSpdDmon

iTrader: (10)

I noticed a minor ground variance is magnified with the default output and equation of the LM1. So, I programmed my LM1 to report 0v=11AFR and 5v=16AFR. That way, it's a 1:1 ratio between the calculation and the voltage output. You have to adjust the LM1 .pid or create a custom .pid so it reports right in the scanner. The new equation should be "{EXT.AD1}+11" for it to work. If you want it to show 10~15AFR, then change the 11 to 10 in the equation and program the LM1 accordingly.

I figure, my car (n/a) shouldn't be running richer than 11.5 or leaner than 15.5 at any point in time. So, this equation works for me.

DynoDR

iTrader: (1)

IIRC.... .88333 volts at 10.00 and 4.21667 volts at 20.00.

5.7 ute

Reprogram your LM1 output voltage to give a flat 2.5 volt output. Then see what voltage is showing in the scantool. This will give you your ground offset that you can modify in the pid.

Doc

iTrader: (9)

Hey folks,
I have been up and down the river with the Innovate product line. They are afordable. Their instructions suck. While many folks look to the LM-1 as having some sort of convience/accuracy/foolproof/ magic bean advantage over it's more reasonable priced brother product, the LC-1, I don't see it. Voltage offset compensation...screw that BS. for LC-1, EFI Live, (and others using common sense) users; analog gnd, sys gnd, and pushbutton cal gnd, tie them all together and put them on the pcm's gnd via the flashscan(datalogger of choice) to VPW connector. That leaves Heater gnd.... thru the firewall via the passenger side kickpanel directly on the passenger side head. Done. You will have more than adequate protection for your signal type gnds from trash on the chassis and a direct route for the current hog (relative ofcourse) heater ckt. You can measure, quantify, adjust your calc pids for the voltage offset but, I think you will find you are wasting your time if you set it up correctly.

ty_ty13

iTrader: (42)

i dont really understand what you're saying.... be a little more "generic" please... thanks

5.7 ute

I agree doc that it is much better to fix your ground circuit than adjust your pids. However setting a flatline voltage to check for offsets is a way for ty_ty13 to ascertain if that is the problem or not.

ty_ty13

iTrader: (42)

what ground do i need to fix?

are you saying that with the "formula" that inovative sends(or thats on EFIlive's tutorial) it should be inline with the efilive?

jimmyblue

iTrader: (11)

The LM-1 has no separation of the grounds, as far as
I can tell. 12V jack, sensor connector and the output
jacks are the only connections and I measure zero ohms
between the analog output ground and the power
jack ground. Heater current will offset the signal ground
against the datalogger signal ground by any sheet metal
and wiring resistance.

If I were chasing voltage errors I'd try a series of output
voltages because there may be more than just offset at
play. Try 0, 0.100, 0.500, 1.000, 3.000, 3.500, 4.000,
4.500 and 5.000 outputs and see what a DMM and the
datalogger both say when hooked up, and what the DMM
alone says. You may find you have both offset and gain
errors, I've seen people do this and their data has both
(gain error also varying with output voltage making a
straight "correction" a no-go).

For starters just hook it up and map out the intended
and delivered voltages. Maybe get the power connection
wired up with the ground at wherever the OBDII takes
its feed from (+ feed, not so fussy) and see how it changes
(or just do it right, first, if you're not so interested in the
experiment for its own sake).

ty_ty13

iTrader: (42)

i really appreciate you guys' responses... but please bare* with me when i say... i have no electrical knowlege at all and im having a very hard time following what you guys are saying.... could you please do a little more explaining for the not so informed crowe (ME )

ty_ty13

iTrader: (42)

are the lm1 and lc1 text/code saposed to be different.... heres what i found..

# Innovate LM-1 WBO2
# ========================
*CLC-00-928
V 0.0 5.0 .1 "{EXT.AD1}"
AFR 10.0 30.0 .1 "{EXT.AD1}*10"
*CLC-00-929
factor 0.0 2.0 .1 "{CALC.AFR_LM11.AFR}/{GM.AFR}"
*CLC-00-930
V 0.0 5.0 .1 "{EXT.AD2}"
AFR 10.0 30.0 .1 "{EXT.AD2}*10"
*CLC-00-931
factor 0.0 2.0 .1 "{CALC.AFR_LM12.AFR}/{GM.AFR}"


# Innovate LC-1 WBO2
# ========================
*CLC-00-932
V 0.0 5.0 .1 "{EXT.AD1}"
AFR 10.0 20.0 .2 "({EXT.AD1}*3)+7.35"
*CLC-00-933
factor 0.0 2.0 .1 "{CALC.AFR_LC11.AFR}/{GM.AFR}"

*CLC-00-934
V 0.0 5.0 .1 "{EXT.AD2}"
AFR 10.0 20.0 .2 "({EXT.AD2}*3)+7.35"
*CLC-00-935
factor 0.0 2.0 .1 "{CALC.AFR_LC12.AFR}/{GM.AFR}"

VERT VETTE HPDE FAN

FYI, I took a bunch of data tonight on this same subject in an effort to get my HPtuners reading the same as my LM1. I thought that I had it working right, but reading some of these posts makes me wonder...


volts af ratio reported by Hptuners
ch2 0.1v 10.3a/f
0.5v 11.2a/lf
1v 12.2a/f
2v 14.2a/f
3v 16.2a/f
4v 18.2a/f
5v 19.75a/f

-I graphed it, and it looks pretty good and linear to me.

5.7 ute

The default readings for the lc1 & lm1 are different. However with the programmer the lm1 can output any voltage that you put into it. What myself and a few other lm1 owners have done is programmed the lm1 to output 0v at 7.35:1 and 5v at 22.39:1.
Then you use the lc1 pid in the scan tool.
Since I am tuning open loop & dont need the narrowband sim I also set the other output to a flatline of 3.0v. By logging both outputs it tells me if there is a ground loop problem.