ArcticZ28

iTrader: (14)

Here's what I've written up in a document so I don't forget for court....

I was pulled over by officer C. L. Edwards and asked if I knew why I was pulled over. I answered no. He said it was because my exhaust was “too loud”. I asked if he could show me the decibel meter he used to come to that conclusion and he said he did not have one, nor did he need one. He said he could articulate that it was too loud because he had been working on the force for 19 years. I did not reply with anything and he walked back to his car. He returned to my car and presented both tickets for “failure to display a front tag” (as I had just repainted my bumper and the plate was sitting behind my driver’s seat waiting to get put on by a shop I had an appointment with on Saturday as I need a special bracket) and for “use of unapproved equipment (muffler)”. I asked what the law was for the decibel level in Fairfax County. He refused to answer. I asked him how he had proof that it was too loud, again, and he refused to answer. He just kept saying, “Come to court and we’ll talk about it”. I asked him to clarify that I was getting a ticket for an exhaust system that has passed safety and emissions twice, is OBDII compliant, and all DOT street legal, and he simply replied with “ok”. I asked him why I had to agree to something (referring to accepting the tickets) when he could not agree (nor clarify at all) why I was getting this ticket and he replied “well I can arrest you and we can talk about it in front of the magistrate if you would like”. I said, “of course not, I am just asking a couple simple questions as I have the right to know what I am getting a ticket for”. He replied with a simple, “ok” yet again. Another officer was standing in my passenger view blind spot the entire time and I made sure to get his name as well. His name is S. T. Martin.

*On the front license plate ticket, my driver’s license ID is wrong. One digit is wrong.


This should be a fun one in court....

mikep2002

iTrader: (10)

ArcticZ28

iTrader: (14)

Keeping in mind, i never said anything about my exhaust system being aftermarket and never admitted it was.

RallyRed 98

iTrader: (4)

1. he doesn't need a meter.
2. emissions doesn't matter.
3. DOT legal doesn't matter.
4. you are wrong.
5. bring yer checkbook.

if you have an aftermarket exhaust your **** is illegal in virginia, period, indent paragraph.

Bull

iTrader: (2)

I thought Massachusetts was the only state that was fucked up enough to essentially outlaw aftermarket exhausts. Sucks that you guys have to deal with it, too.

NHRATA01

iTrader: (10)

FWIW I think you'll probably lose that arguement too.

You may be able to get out of the front plate ticket if you can produce the receipt from the shop, and if said work was done in a recent timeframe. Sometimes believe it or not, the courts will actually give you a fair shake.

ArcticZ28

iTrader: (14)

I understand all of that, in those quite unnecessarily blunt statements. I think my post may have suggested that I am mad that this cop gave me a ticket. I'm not. What I'm mad about is that the cop treated me like I was some young ******* from the get-go with things like "and you've never gotten a ticket for this?" and "I don't have to tell you what the laws are" and "just go to court then". That's not very professional of him when I was very polite and was simply asking him to provide information about the law I was breaking. I would think it would be understandable to expect an explanation of why I am breaking a law rather than just an "ok, just go to court". Furthermore, he has no proof that it is aftermarket. It's innocent until proven guilty. His case is "it was loud". That doesn't prove anything. Loud is an insanely relative term. I know my chances are 1 million to 1 for anything changing by going to court, but I'm a huge advocate of a fair trial, no matter how small the case. I have been in a court room on more than one instance where a cop blatantly lies to build their case (as I can pretty much guarantee this guy is gonna say he checked my exhaust when I question it in court and I know for fact he did not) and I end up getting screwed b/c it's his word against mine and his "oath" in being inducted into cophood says he tells more truth than I do.

TNTramair

iTrader: (15)

Ive said it once an ill say it again...they arent any louder than any Harley on the road. just another example of a cop being arrogant and not knowing what the law is therefore uses terms like "ok" "lets talk about it in court" as a sufficient answer.
i agree with you...he's not wrong for pulling you over for the plate and "loud" exhaust...he IS however very wrong in which way he delt with the situation. Cops dont like to be questioned...no matter what it is...thats why they hate internal affairs!

98Z28MASS

iTrader: (6)

My girlfriends brother is a cop and if the officer messed up anything on the ticket make sure you mention that because usually it will result in an invalid ticket and will be dismissed. I dunno what the rules are in VA but thats what happened to me on a noise ordinance ticket (exhaust as well) and they messed up the last digit in my license plate on the ticket and it was dismissed due to incorrect information. However, they do need to prove it was too loud because without a decimeter how do they know it exceeds tolerance? Its just like with as peeding ticket and no radar, you can fight it. You might not win but it is arguable. Good luck man and sucks you ran into such a ******** cop on a nice day.

ss1129

iTrader: (16)

Ive learned in my three years here that most VA cops are tools. Its not like this everywhere.

RallyRed 98

iTrader: (4)

loud is subjective but that is how the code is written. "loud" is 100% discretionary. you cannot modify your exhaust at all. if it doesn't come with a muffler from the factory it doesn't need to have a muffler. modified does not have to mean aftermarket either, you could have cleaned out your cat and cut your muffler open and that would still illegal.

i have no idea what the cop was like because i wasn't there, but going from "your side" you sounded kind of silly asking questions about things that have nothing to do with the code of virginia. when you ask to have the law stated back to you you are just wasting time. you knew you were doing something wrong; it's not like you were wearing green pants on a blue pants day.

trust me it is much easier to just sit there, possibly be let off, possibly get a ticket... then if you do, fix the **** for which you were cited, get proof, show it to the judge, get the tickets thrown out and pay court costs.

Specialized

iTrader: (15)

Thanks officer Joe.


Ill remember to take your advice the next time a ******** cop pulls me over for something idiotic. Ill just sit there (my 20 year old ***) and let him write me up for no real reason, just because he's jealous he's driving a Crown Vic, and Im driving my Camaro on a nice summer day.


Then, Ill get pulled over for driving my dads car home (from bringing him to the airport) and some other kid in a TT A6 tries to race me, I slow way down- both of us get pulled over. The cop asked me why I was racing, I said I wasnt- Im driving my dads car home from the airport because he's going to Miami. He said bullshit, I know kids- you all race on this road.



I really hate ******** cops, I wish they would all get off their high horse and sit with the rest of us. What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

ArcticZ28

iTrader: (14)

I understand how cops and the legal system operate. They were simple questions as to how I was breaking the law. Your exhaust is loud is not breaking the law to me. I wanted to know how, and why, and what the law actually is, as I don't like to just take people's word for things. I like to know the why's and how's. So, I questioned him. He didn't have to be an ******* about it, as I wasn't. I understand you weren't there and your explanation is subjective as well. I'm merely stating it was a pretty crappy interaction that the cop turned it into. I know I can replace all of my stuff and show proof. Been there, done that. I've also spent over $1k in my exhaust system, so it's not that easy to me. Thanks for your input as an officer, though. I'm just venting here and seeing if there's any leeway in this case. I'm not looking for an easy out, I'm looking to learn here. I don't know how else to get that across.

Rhode Island Red

iTrader: (2)

why don't you ply the angle to the judge/magistrate

"Your honor, here is a copy of the ticket, well this ticket is for a car with license plate XXX XXXX. Your honor here is a copy of my registration. As you can clearly see my license plate is XXX XXXY. I do not own a car with the license plate XXX XXXX. This is ticket is clearly written up for a fictitious car, that I do not own."

3 years ago a bunch of us got pulled over on the MASS pike. I fought the speeding ticket, under the pretence he wrote my ticket for a fictitios town in mass, not ri, with a mass drivers license. I simply pulled out my RI drivers license, proving the ticket was flawed, and the ticket was dropped right then and there, the trooper representing the troopers, felt so embarassed for the moran who wrote my ticket, he bowed his head to his hand and shook his head slowly and grimmaced

best best is to use the flawed ticket approach. Usually the judge will give the benefit of doubt to the driver. The cop screwed up on the ticket...now that is not your fault and the judge will know this

ArcticZ28

iTrader: (14)

Judges in ffx county don't give a benefit of anything to anyone.

Rhode Island Red

iTrader: (2)

wouldn't hurt to try. you can get out of the plate ticket showing it is on the car... and a copy of the receipt from the shop you had the front nose worked on to document this fact... As for noise best best is still to use the screwed up ticket angle.... if it's not your car, you cant be held liable ...bypass the pissing match with the cop completely with this technicality

calm, down drink a few beer over the weekend, and reread my posts. Wish you the best of luck

TNTramair

iTrader: (15)

I dont understand what was wrong with the questions he was asking?? he has the right to ask anything he wants to whomever he wants if he does not know the answer. if hes going under the impression that was given to him by the "exhaust company" that it was a "50 state legal" system, than ofcourse hes gonna question it....i would also. its no differant than a student askin a teacher a question in class. i dont think the Cop knew the answers and to prevent stumbling over himself he simply kept replying with "ok". and thats very arrogant to say to someone when they are being sincere in what they are askin you. officers demand respect from people but than they go and do **** like this...makes no sense to me.

ss1129

iTrader: (16)

46.2-1049. Exhaust system in good working order.

No person shall drive and no owner of a vehicle shall permit or allow the operation of any such vehicle on a highway unless it is equipped with an exhaust system in good working order and in constant operation to prevent excessive or unusual levels of noise; provided however, that for motor vehicles, such exhaust system shall be of a type installed as standard factory equipment, or comparable to that designed for use on the particular vehicle as standard factory equipment. An exhaust system shall not be deemed to prevent excessive or unusual noise if it permits the escape of noise in excess of that permitted by the standard factory equipment exhaust system of private passenger motor vehicles or trucks of standard make.

The term "exhaust system," as used in this section, means all the parts of a vehicle through which the exhaust passes after leaving the engine block, including mufflers and other sound dissipative devices.

Chambered pipes are not an effective muffling device to prevent excessive or unusual noise, and any vehicle equipped with chambered pipes shall be deemed in violation of this section.




46.2-1047. Muffler cutout, etc., illegal.

It shall be unlawful to sell or offer for sale any (i) muffler without interior baffle plates or other effective muffling device or (ii) gutted muffler, muffler cutout, or straight exhaust. It shall be unlawful for any person to operate on the highways in the Commonwealth a motor vehicle, moped, or motorized skateboard or scooter equipped with a gutted muffler, muffler cutout, or straight exhaust.

I think if your car passed safety inspections it should be fine. Theres no law stating you cant mod your engine which would make your car louder. Plus it says comparable to that of factory equipment. I dont know how wild your car is, but you should get the idea.

gyrene2003

ah yes, wounderful fairfax! I got a ticket thier in my 2000 RS for having ******* license plate covers on my car that were bairily even tinted, i didnt know it was a law and removed them as soon as i got the ticket, the cop treated me like a dirt bag, and thats with him knowing that i was a Marine, and it seemed like when he found that out it made it worse, and he jumped on a higher horse and told me he was retired and he was a complete fuckstick. Sorry, i get alittle worked up sometimes. I know what u mean though, ive been pulled over before and had HUMAN police officers that actually talk to me and im very respectful because my driving record aint so clean, but then u get those that make u feel like ur 12 and ur a complete idiot and ur wasting thier time by trying to talk to them, well **** them!! Rant over.

9T9BlueTA

iTrader: (2)

EDIT: nevermind not even worth it.