Drag Racing Tech - How hard is a Turbo400 or Turbo350 swap from a 6spd?

Hey guys I was thinking of maybe just maybe doing a swap from a 6spd to a Turbo400 or turbo350. I just wanted to see what was all involved and all the parts I would need. Also I wouldn't think it would be able to be computer controlled so do you just use a manual valvebody or what do you have to do? I am not a auto guy at all so I know I need a tranny prob a bellhousing , a shifter, a convertor, and thats about it!!

Dan

It's pretty easy. With a manual valve body it works like a manual, except there's no clutch. I have some stuff written up in two different spots here. Something I've never even finished.

http://www.derty.org/ls1tech_trans_faq.htm
http://www.derty.org/photogallery/data/media/20/th400.htm
http://www.derty.org/photogallery/categories.php?cat_id=20

Not that bad to do at all,just did mine last fall
BTLFEDSS

Could it be something that you could do say in a day? I love my m6 but I would like to see how it comparse to a auto with the same setup.

So after the initial instal could I switch back and forth in a couple of hrs? I can change out my clutch in about 2-3 hrs with one person helping if that tells you anything about my abilites.

I would say yes with one exception. Mounting the shifter for the A3. Depending on how it's done it may require blocking off the hole for the M6 shifter. It would be one long pain in the ass day to swap back and forth. I would just find an A3 car and take a ride.

After the first time, it can be swapped in 4 hours or so. If you have a lift, even better because on the floor it's a pain. It also takes two people to do it and at least a trans lift for a floor jack (it's a big flat plate that goes in place of the round one that most jacks have).

Thanks for the input guys now I have to decide weather to do the swap or just keep banging the gears which I love to do but it is not as consistant.

Dan

Ask yourself a different question: How often do I want to drive on the freeway and keep it quiet? In a powerglide or TH400, final gear is only 1:1 and without a Gear Vendors overdrive you can expect to spin the motor between 3000 and 3800 or so depending on your rear gear just to maintain 70 MPH. If you're going 80MPH, it will be much worse.

If you're doing a ton of daily driving and want the piece of mind (and quiet) while on the freeway, don't do the conversion. Or, shell out the extra cash for the overdrive. For 50MPH or less street cruising, it's a blast.

Mounting the shifter is the hardest part believe it or not. Everything else pretty much bolts right up.

edit- you will have to modify your driveshaft. I had to make mine longer and put a new yoke on. The crossmember might have do be modified, but I just bought the one from BMR instead, because you will need a place to mount your torque arm since it will no longer be able to mount to the tranny. The BMR unit is well worth the $$$ imo. But once you have all the parts its not too hard...

Ask yourself a different question: How often do I want to drive on the freeway and keep it quiet? In a powerglide or TH400, final gear is only 1:1 and without a Gear Vendors overdrive you can expect to spin the motor between 3000 and 3800 or so depending on your rear gear just to maintain 70 MPH. If you're going 80MPH, it will be much worse.

If you're doing a ton of daily driving and want the piece of mind (and quiet) while on the freeway, don't do the conversion. Or, shell out the extra cash for the overdrive. For 50MPH or less street cruising, it's a blast.

When I drive to the track I have to do 70 mph. Thats the only time I feel inconvenienced having an A3. But having an A3 with a 4000 stall and a transbrake is soooo much fun especially on the launch. I really don't regret making the switch from an M6. If it were my daily driver though I probably wouldn't do it.

I agree with ya. Just putting out the general warning. You can still have fun on the freeway, it just puts a lot of stress onto the motor the whole time. And screw trying to talk on a cell phone.

Here's one of my favorite videos. My car (motor) vs Stenod's old TT Incon Camaro. http://www.derty.org/photogallery/data/media/38/Derty_Highway2.wmv

Can't wait to swap out my M6. What kind of prices did you guys end up paying for the whole shebang? I'm guessing around 2400 bucks or so.

Marty

Not even close if you buy new.
TH400 1500-2500 depending upon build
Converter 500-900
Crossmember or Spohn mount 50-150
Shifter 200-250
Cooler 50-90
Flex plate 210
driveshaft 400-550

Still worth every penny, especially when you need to spend 1400 for a high hp clutch.

Now, to offset the cost, you can pawn your current stuff if it is in good shape
T56 1000+
shifter 100+
cluch items, driveshaft, etc.

long shaft th350 with convertor- 1350 w/ultrabell
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170097939065&ssPageName=MERC_VI_RSCCK_Pr4_PcY_BIN_Stores_IT&refitem=170098578803&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=active_view_item&usedrule1=StoreCatToStoreCat&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget

TCI flexplate- 179.99
shifter- 129.99-259.99
ARP bolts- around 20
BMR crossmember- 169.99
Tranny Cooler- 49.99

with the 350, u can use your stock DS, and the 350 weighs less

I'm sure Redneck builds one hell of a trans, but I'll spend the $ for a Rossler.

how easy is this swap if you have the 4l60.what flexplate is used and is the bell pattern the same.ive rebuilt alot of th350s so thats the route i want to go

I was going to do this swap this past winter. But I blew a head gasket and found out I had a cracked head. So the money went towards the new motor set up.

I still may have one built for doing some serious racing. But I love to bang the gears in a M6. There nothing like it. Except launching off of the trans break at about 5 grand. LOL.

TCI flexplate- 179.99
shifter- 129.99-259.99
ARP bolts- around 20
BMR crossmember- 169.99
Tranny Cooler- 49.99



From where are you quoting those prices?

Not even close if you buy new.
TH400 1500-2500 depending upon build
Converter 500-900
Crossmember or Spohn mount 50-150
Shifter 200-250
Cooler 50-90
Flex plate 210
driveshaft 400-550

Still worth every penny, especially when you need to spend 1400 for a high hp clutch.


I am looking at this crap:
Coan TH400 1100
Edge verter 650
stock flexplate 50
B&M quarterstick 200
moly driveshaft 350
cooler/dip/bolts 130

For a grand total of 2480. I also assume that I can find some stuff like the shifter used on the boards here. Same with the flexplate and cooler/dipstick/bolts situation.

I'm going to build a moly crossmember myself and I am going to sell all of my T56 and clutch stuff for around 1500 so not that much coin.

Please correct me if I'm crazy.

Marty

I did the swap last year and researched a ton, and I still found myself spending more money than i had added up, and you will always run into those unexpected problems too! It is pretty easy, the only thing I had problems with was, the speedo. I just left it unplugged so far. The torque converter bolts was a bitch to get to. Biggest pain in the ass was trying to get the shifter right at the perfect spot with my stock m6 counsil. That was a bitch. Other than that, EASY! And it's a blast still with a reverse maunual valve body, with a high stall and tbrake. I went .6 faster in the 1/4 just by going with th400. I miss revving up the motor and dropping the clutch and spinning the tires for 300+feet. Other than that, no regrets!

I just Spent like 3.8 / 4k...
waiting on parts to arrive yet...

I just Spent like 3.8 / 4k...
waiting on parts to arrive yet...

Care to break down the parts list?

Marty

hmm lets see..

TH350 RMVB TB
ATI Converter
TCI Flexplate w/ARP Bolts (which i hope will fit)
Madman dipstick
Madman TA
BMR Crossmember
TCI Shifter and Cable
ATI Converter Bolts
B&M Deep Tranny pan
2x XR1 Borlas (Since TA crossmember wont allow a full exhaust)
Poly Tranny Mount
Tranny Cooler
Some fittings for random stuff
And more stuff..

And a pair of Hoosier DRs...

I scored a Rossler TH400 RMVB TB with an ultrabell, Dennys Nitrous ready DS, Coan 4k Nitrous converter, cooler, braided lines with AN fittings for 1800 used. Deals like that don,t come along everyday but they are out there if your diligent.

I just got a quote from speed inc to do the swap parts and labor was just over $5,000 if I wanted them to install it.

hmm lets see..

TH350 RMVB TB
ATI Converter
TCI Flexplate w/ARP Bolts (which i hope will fit)
Madman dipstick
Madman TA
BMR Crossmember
TCI Shifter and Cable
ATI Converter Bolts
B&M Deep Tranny pan
2x XR1 Borlas (Since TA crossmember wont allow a full exhaust)
Poly Tranny Mount
Tranny Cooler
Some fittings for random stuff
And more stuff..

And a pair of Hoosier DRs...

:jest: I'm an idiot...I meant to say a price breakdown...oh well I'll try again later!

Marty

I am gonna swap from M6 to a fully manual 4L60/80.. So I can still cruise on the interstate. ;)

That's about right when you include labor. There's a lot of tedious stuff to do and the removal / install takes several hours to do. The list of all the parts certainly adds up. Some things you guys don't have on your list is the cost of the AN lines and fittings is going to be more than $20. But it is a big list of a couple hundred dollar parts here and there that adds up. I'd recommend that you definitely get a SFI flexplate instead of the stock one as well.

The rest of the big ticket items is really in the trans and the converter itself. With so many different things to choose from you can get them for cheap or pay top dollar for the fully built setups. On average I would set an expectation that a fully done swap with new parts is going to fall between 3k and 4k for most people. 5k to 7k for fully built high end race applications is not out of the question depending on some of the extras that you pick out.

I just did the swap last year, and I can tell you the list of parts I used. I bought some of the parts used so the prices are kinda irrevelant and I wont' include them, but here is the list:

Hughes Th400, full 1000 hp build, rmvb with the better transbrake they offer
3.5 inch alum driveshaft, 44.5 inches long if I remember correctly
Ultimate converter, built for nitrous, stalled to 5800
Hurst pistol grip quarter stick
Flexalite tranny cooler, -6AN fittings, 7.5x24x3/4 thick
Autometer tranny temp guage
15 feet of -6 an hose
4 45degree -6an fittings
BMR th400 crossmember with tq arm relocation
stock A4 center console to modify around the quarterstick
Hughes sfi approved flexplate
CSR th400 scattershield (a must IMO, I've seen what happens to a 4th gen when the tranny explodes and comes thru the floor...... not good)


That's the list of parts I used.... again alot of it was used parts I searched around and picked up so the prices aren't really viable, alot of it I got pretty good deals on.

CSR th400 scattershield (a must IMO, I've seen what happens to a 4th gen when the tranny explodes and comes thru the floor...... not good)


Carbon fiber complete shield?

Did it fit under the stock floor?

yes it is a carbon fiber shield, and it does fit under the stock floor. it's tight, yes you can hear it rattle on the floor a little bit, but if I ever have a tranny explosion, I suspect my feet might be thanking me for putting it there.

The CSR shield should be used if you don't have a Ultrabell and plan to race the car. If you do have the Ultrabell then you'll want to use the TCI shield for the case. The CF shield does not fit over the top of the Ultrabell. I always raced with a blanket after watching the drum come out of a TH400, go through the floorboard, through the drivers leg/ankle and sprayed trans fluid inside the car catching it on fire. Using the blanket and the shield should catch all of the hard parts and more importantly, contain any trans fluid as much as possible and keep it under the car instead of in the car in a worse case situation.

Food for thought.

Thanks for the input guys now I have to decide weather to do the swap or just keep banging the gears which I love to do but it is not as consistant.

Dan

you should do the swap and sell me your 6spd for cheap. :drive:

where are you located?

The CSR shield should be used if you don't have a Ultrabell and plan to race the car. If you do have the Ultrabell then you'll want to use the TCI shield for the case. The CF shield does not fit over the top of the Ultrabell. I always raced with a blanket after watching the drum come out of a TH400, go through the floorboard, through the drivers leg/ankle and sprayed trans fluid inside the car catching it on fire. Using the blanket and the shield should catch all of the hard parts and more importantly, contain any trans fluid as much as possible and keep it under the car instead of in the car in a worse case situation.

Food for thought.

CSR shield acts as a flexplate shield too right?

I did not bought any safety stuff for the Tranny... Gotta do something about it..

it covers the tranny from the motor to abotu 2 inches form the driveshaft.

ultrabell and a blanket would probably be as good or better... but I think I'll go to ao dedenbar cased glide before I need the ultrabell.