New Gaskets.....front and rear seals don't look as good as they used to.
04-22-2007, 07:36 PM
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New Gaskets.....front and rear seals don't look as good as they used to. I got a box of new gaskets for my rebuild. I punched out the front main seal....and my original one looked pretty good and had/has a metal inner ring..the new seal has not metal ring in it. IMO the new seals don't look as good as the old seals!
Has anybody else noticed this? Makes me question whether I should remove my old rear main seal to replace it with the new one. I hate to not replace it since the whole purpose of buying new gaskets....was to have new gaskets...but the rear and fronts to me..just don't look as good.
Has anybody else noticed this? Makes me question whether I should remove my old rear main seal to replace it with the new one. I hate to not replace it since the whole purpose of buying new gaskets....was to have new gaskets...but the rear and fronts to me..just don't look as good.
04-22-2007, 09:29 PM
#3
I was told buy a guy on the board (Valvegod) that GM has replaced the seals with an inferior design. I didn't quite get what exactly the change was, but he said that they went back to a design that they tested earlier and decided against. I guess they are using it now for cost benefits?? This inferior design would be the only one available going forward.
04-22-2007, 09:58 PM
#4
Originally Posted by Shinobi'sZ
I got a box of new gaskets for my rebuild. I punched out the front main seal....and my original one looked pretty good and had/has a metal inner ring..the new seal has not metal ring in it. IMO the new seals don't look as good as the old seals!
Has anybody else noticed this? Makes me question whether I should remove my old rear main seal to replace it with the new one. I hate to not replace it since the whole purpose of buying new gaskets....was to have new gaskets...but the rear and fronts to me..just don't look as good.
Has anybody else noticed this? Makes me question whether I should remove my old rear main seal to replace it with the new one. I hate to not replace it since the whole purpose of buying new gaskets....was to have new gaskets...but the rear and fronts to me..just don't look as good.
04-22-2007, 11:27 PM
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Yeah that settles is my old rear main seal still looks good and has the metal inner ring...I don't think I will be replacing it with the new one.....now I'm sorry I changed the front one...it looked fine too.
04-22-2007, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by JMBLOWNWS6
Is this a Fel Pro set?
Damnnnnnnnnnnn!!!
My machine shop gave me Felpro gaskets.....no wonder they look different.
The thing is I thought Felpro was supposed to superior...the front and rear mains....do not look superior in anyway.
Maybe I can just by the front main seal from GM and replace the new Felpro one I just put in.
04-22-2007, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Shinobi'sZ
Damnnnnnnnnnnn!!!
My machine shop gave me Felpro gaskets.....no wonder they look different.
The thing is I thought Felpro was supposed to superior...the front and rear mains....do not look superior in anyway.
Maybe I can just by the front main seal from GM and replace the new Felpro one I just put in.
My machine shop gave me Felpro gaskets.....no wonder they look different.
The thing is I thought Felpro was supposed to superior...the front and rear mains....do not look superior in anyway.
Maybe I can just by the front main seal from GM and replace the new Felpro one I just put in.
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04-23-2007, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by JMBLOWNWS6
This is the same thing that happened to me the other day. I used it and no leaks so far. Only time will tell.
When I pressed in the front main seal...I was able to do it with my thumbs.
Were you able to put the rear main seal in as easily or did you have to tap it in?
04-23-2007, 01:01 PM
#11
Crank Seals Felpro uses the OE seals. Same as you would get over the counter at GM. Pretty much the entire Head Set (head gaskets and all) and Lower Set is all GM product. Felpro is not making any of it, all sourced out.
Rear seal was superceded to NEW design December 2006.
Here are a couple of pics.
Rear seal was superceded to NEW design December 2006.
Here are a couple of pics.
04-23-2007, 04:09 PM
#12
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cant comment on what you guys are using...
But the stock LS1 front and rear seals, that I had to use look like POS's
They were hard plastic where they mate to the crank, instead of a proper soft rubber seal with an internal metal spring like virtually every oil seal has here in the UK.
That said, they do seem to be working.
But the stock LS1 front and rear seals, that I had to use look like POS's
They were hard plastic where they mate to the crank, instead of a proper soft rubber seal with an internal metal spring like virtually every oil seal has here in the UK.
That said, they do seem to be working.
04-23-2007, 04:59 PM
#14
Originally Posted by stevieturbo
cant comment on what you guys are using...
But the stock LS1 front and rear seals, that I had to use look like POS's
They were hard plastic where they mate to the crank, instead of a proper soft rubber seal with an internal metal spring like virtually every oil seal has here in the UK.
That said, they do seem to be working.
But the stock LS1 front and rear seals, that I had to use look like POS's
They were hard plastic where they mate to the crank, instead of a proper soft rubber seal with an internal metal spring like virtually every oil seal has here in the UK.
That said, they do seem to be working.
04-23-2007, 05:21 PM
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the new style Rear main seal is a POS
the one from GM
it was put on my new 403 and in less than 1 hour had leaked out around 1/2 quart of oil
it went on way to easy by hand and the seal is turned backward from the older style so when any oil pressure hits it, it will just raise up and leak
it really sucks and if it is what GM is useing on new cars expect to see a new problem with oil leaks
the one from GM
it was put on my new 403 and in less than 1 hour had leaked out around 1/2 quart of oil
it went on way to easy by hand and the seal is turned backward from the older style so when any oil pressure hits it, it will just raise up and leak
it really sucks and if it is what GM is useing on new cars expect to see a new problem with oil leaks
04-23-2007, 05:31 PM
#16
Originally Posted by Darren P
the new style Rear main seal is a POS
the one from GM
it was put on my new 403 and in less than 1 hour had leaked out around 1/2 quart of oil
it went on way to easy by hand and the seal is turned backward from the older style so when any oil pressure hits it, it will just raise up and leak
it really sucks and if it is what GM is useing on new cars expect to see a new problem with oil leaks
the one from GM
it was put on my new 403 and in less than 1 hour had leaked out around 1/2 quart of oil
it went on way to easy by hand and the seal is turned backward from the older style so when any oil pressure hits it, it will just raise up and leak
it really sucks and if it is what GM is useing on new cars expect to see a new problem with oil leaks
04-23-2007, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by helicoil
Felpro uses the OE seals. Same as you would get over the counter at GM. Pretty much the entire Head Set (head gaskets and all) and Lower Set is all GM product. Felpro is not making any of it, all sourced out.
Rear seal was superceded to NEW design December 2006.
Here are a couple of pics.
Rear seal was superceded to NEW design December 2006.
Here are a couple of pics.
Yes you have thumbnailed exactly the gasket set that I have and it does state "this side out" on the rear main seal.
I just don't get it...I have been using the original front and rear main seal for 42K miles and have torn my motor down 3 times and reused them...never a leak.
They remind me of a military vehicle seal (01 GM)...they have an olive drab metal inner ring...and it is coated with the rubber seal.....I had to take a punch and hammer to get it out...just like the instructions state how to do it on "ls1howto".
Then the new one (felpro) just goes right on in. I am just concerned about using the Felpro rear seal (and front for that matter).
Has anybody esle used these gaskets with no failures?????????
04-23-2007, 10:39 PM
#18
well heres a bump for this,since my motor is no way close to being done and i added a felpro rear main seal and would like to know if its junk before the motor goes together. the front seals in the timing cover were not the same as the stock ones either. this is on a 94 LT1.
04-26-2007, 12:55 PM
#19
GM rear seals
Originally Posted by Darren P
the new style Rear main seal is a POS
the one from GM
it was put on my new 403 and in less than 1 hour had leaked out around 1/2 quart of oil
it went on way to easy by hand and the seal is turned backward from the older style so when any oil pressure hits it, it will just raise up and leak
it really sucks and if it is what GM is useing on new cars expect to see a new problem with oil leaks
the one from GM
it was put on my new 403 and in less than 1 hour had leaked out around 1/2 quart of oil
it went on way to easy by hand and the seal is turned backward from the older style so when any oil pressure hits it, it will just raise up and leak
it really sucks and if it is what GM is useing on new cars expect to see a new problem with oil leaks
I am not trying to be condascending but this is easy to do, it doesn't look like the way it goes in is right, by comparison standards to other types of seals or even the original.
As far as the 'loose' fit, they definitely don't install as tight because the metal inner structure that was there with the old one is not there with the NEW one. I recommend to use Loctite 518 on the OD of the seal before pushing it into the case to hold it in place during use. It should stay in there on its own, but this is cheap insurance. If you are skeptical about using something on the back of the seal all I can tell you is that alot of late model Chrysler one piece seals go in this way and is a factory recommendation right out of the OE service manual.
The original GM rear main seal was olive green, and the NEW one is black.
BOTH of these seals are teflon style seals. Normally, a teflon seal goes in with no lubrication between it and the crankshaft. The idea is to have the teflon transfer from the seal to the crankshaft, this would not happen with lubricant between the two. Interesting twist is the NEW seal (black) comes with a teflon lubricant on the lip, some think it is not a teflon seal, although it most definitely is.
Neither seal has a spring behind it because they are the PTFE type (teflon)
low tension, wide wipe area. Not your typical focused tension point wipe area that will eventually groove the crank. Most OE's have gone away from this type and use teflon seals.
I have not ran my LS2 yet, although I haven't heard of many problems with the NEW design yet other than people's concern with the looser cover fit. By using the Loctite 518 as insurance you should be fine. I think alot of people whom have the problem may be installing the seal backwards, believe it or not!
I attached a couple more pics of the 'old' seal (olive green) and the NEW seal (black). It looks like the old seal will not be coming back so you better get use to the NEW one.
04-26-2007, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by helicoil
The NEW seal works, but is definitely different. I would be very suspect if the seal was installed correctly (direction wise). If you have installed many rear main seals you would be apt to install this seal completely backwards by the looks of it. However, if you read the directions in the box and note the 'this side out' on the seal itself you would install it correctly.
I am not trying to be condascending but this is easy to do, it doesn't look like the way it goes in is right, by comparison standards to other types of seals or even the original.
As far as the 'loose' fit, they definitely don't install as tight because the metal inner structure that was there with the old one is not there with the NEW one. I recommend to use Loctite 518 on the OD of the seal before pushing it into the case to hold it in place during use. It should stay in there on its own, but this is cheap insurance. If you are skeptical about using something on the back of the seal all I can tell you is that alot of late model Chrysler one piece seals go in this way and is a factory recommendation right out of the OE service manual.
The original GM rear main seal was olive green, and the NEW one is black.
BOTH of these seals are teflon style seals. Normally, a teflon seal goes in with no lubrication between it and the crankshaft. The idea is to have the teflon transfer from the seal to the crankshaft, this would not happen with lubricant between the two. Interesting twist is the NEW seal (black) comes with a teflon lubricant on the lip, some think it is not a teflon seal, although it most definitely is.
Neither seal has a spring behind it because they are the PTFE type (teflon)
low tension, wide wipe area. Not your typical focused tension point wipe area that will eventually groove the crank. Most OE's have gone away from this type and use teflon seals.
I have not ran my LS2 yet, although I haven't heard of many problems with the NEW design yet other than people's concern with the looser cover fit. By using the Loctite 518 as insurance you should be fine. I think alot of people whom have the problem may be installing the seal backwards, believe it or not!
I attached a couple more pics of the 'old' seal (olive green) and the NEW seal (black). It looks like the old seal will not be coming back so you better get use to the NEW one.
I am not trying to be condascending but this is easy to do, it doesn't look like the way it goes in is right, by comparison standards to other types of seals or even the original.
As far as the 'loose' fit, they definitely don't install as tight because the metal inner structure that was there with the old one is not there with the NEW one. I recommend to use Loctite 518 on the OD of the seal before pushing it into the case to hold it in place during use. It should stay in there on its own, but this is cheap insurance. If you are skeptical about using something on the back of the seal all I can tell you is that alot of late model Chrysler one piece seals go in this way and is a factory recommendation right out of the OE service manual.
The original GM rear main seal was olive green, and the NEW one is black.
BOTH of these seals are teflon style seals. Normally, a teflon seal goes in with no lubrication between it and the crankshaft. The idea is to have the teflon transfer from the seal to the crankshaft, this would not happen with lubricant between the two. Interesting twist is the NEW seal (black) comes with a teflon lubricant on the lip, some think it is not a teflon seal, although it most definitely is.
Neither seal has a spring behind it because they are the PTFE type (teflon)
low tension, wide wipe area. Not your typical focused tension point wipe area that will eventually groove the crank. Most OE's have gone away from this type and use teflon seals.
I have not ran my LS2 yet, although I haven't heard of many problems with the NEW design yet other than people's concern with the looser cover fit. By using the Loctite 518 as insurance you should be fine. I think alot of people whom have the problem may be installing the seal backwards, believe it or not!
I attached a couple more pics of the 'old' seal (olive green) and the NEW seal (black). It looks like the old seal will not be coming back so you better get use to the NEW one.
Thanks for reaffirmation and comments on this post as I have been sitting there looking at the seals and finding other stuff to do to stall until I could get some feedback....the old Olive Drab Main Seal that is still in my rear cover...looks pretty damn good still. I am just being **** because I purchased "new seals" and want to use them since I paid for them....kind of goes against the whole, "if it's not broke..don't fix it" mindset.
