454 w/ Kenne Bell 2.8 ?'s (head/cam)
04-23-2007, 05:40 PM
#1
TECH Addict
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Enumclaw, WA
Posts: 2,566
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
454 w/ Kenne Bell 2.8 ?'s (head/cam) So I know there are just so many opinions and thoughts but just want to see what others say...
I am thinking that I will go the 454 LSx route w/ a KB 2.8L. If they are going to make a manifold to work on the L92's I would like to run the PRC L92's due to the great price/performance factor. With the $ savings over a LS7 head it pays the difference for the LSx block.
Am I stupid to use the heads? Should I go 402 w/ better heads? This is one area I could use so guidance...
The other is cam selection... 454 w/ blower What kind of specs? If I went 402?
Thanks for any help...
Jason
I am thinking that I will go the 454 LSx route w/ a KB 2.8L. If they are going to make a manifold to work on the L92's I would like to run the PRC L92's due to the great price/performance factor. With the $ savings over a LS7 head it pays the difference for the LSx block.
Am I stupid to use the heads? Should I go 402 w/ better heads? This is one area I could use so guidance...
The other is cam selection... 454 w/ blower What kind of specs? If I went 402?
Thanks for any help...
Jason
04-23-2007, 07:09 PM
#2
If I were going to go FI, I would do a lower cubed lsX block motor (383 mabye) and boost it a good bit. This way you have really thick cylinder walls still, not bored out to almost the max. I would also wait until there are heads out that take advantage of the extra head bolt holes on the lsX block.
Also, I'm not even sure if a KB2.8 is big enough to feed a 454 @WOT. Is it? Since you have mucho room for plumbing in the chevelle, I would seriously consider just going turbo.
Good luck!
Also, I'm not even sure if a KB2.8 is big enough to feed a 454 @WOT. Is it? Since you have mucho room for plumbing in the chevelle, I would seriously consider just going turbo.
Good luck!
04-23-2007, 07:22 PM
#3
TECH Addict
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Enumclaw, WA
Posts: 2,566
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The 2.8 is a big blower and I think AmericanHP is doing 454 w/ 2.8 KB. After seeing his 403 dyno of 801/851 with an impressive 715is tq at 2K I fell in love...
I do want to see what GMPP will introduce for the LSx and pricing though...
I do want to see what GMPP will introduce for the LSx and pricing though...
04-23-2007, 07:24 PM
#4
Originally Posted by LSxChevelle
The 2.8 is a big blower and I think AmericanHP is doing 454 w/ 2.8 KB. After seeing his 403 dyno of 801/851 with an impressive 715is tq at 2K I fell in love...
I do want to see what GMPP will introduce for the LSx and pricing though...
I do want to see what GMPP will introduce for the LSx and pricing though...
Ah, I see. Cool. But don't forget, that's about 50 cubes less than a 454. Either way, that is pretty sick. Why don't you outline what you want to do on their project? Did they not give details? (ie cam, heads?)
04-23-2007, 07:54 PM
#5
I don't think I'd recommend a 454 for any kind of boosted application, especially with L92 heads. The large bore size you'd need would hardly leave any gasket area to seal up between the cylinder bores. I mean, it's still only 4.400" bore spacing. Also, the L-92 heads have fairly thin decks and would be more susceptable to lifting under boost.
A 4.00-4.03" bore would seal much better and a thick deck head like an ET LS7 head would outflow the L92s. Expensive, but you've already been there and done that, LOL.
A 4.00-4.03" bore would seal much better and a thick deck head like an ET LS7 head would outflow the L92s. Expensive, but you've already been there and done that, LOL.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
Trending Topics
04-23-2007, 09:46 PM
#8
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (22)
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: 18013
Posts: 713
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by KAOS
wait a minute, there are old school 454 boosted so what would be the difference. i know there probably is but bigger motor plus boost = big power.
LSx bore spacing = 4.4"
4.84" - 4.25" = .59" on the BBC
4.4" - 4.2" = .2" on the LSx
I think he means the space between the cylinders, not the displacement itself. right?
04-23-2007, 11:15 PM
#10
I remember reading an article once where the biggest problem with high boost motors was keeping the cylinder walls concentric to keep good ring seal. That and the threat of lifting heads/blowing gaskets. So that's why we are all recommending a smaller bore, even on the lsX block.
04-24-2007, 01:24 AM
#12
Originally Posted by LSxChevelle
So I know there are just so many opinions and thoughts but just want to see what others say...
I am thinking that I will go the 454 LSx route w/ a KB 2.8L. If they are going to make a manifold to work on the L92's I would like to run the PRC L92's due to the great price/performance factor. With the $ savings over a LS7 head it pays the difference for the LSx block.
Am I stupid to use the heads? Should I go 402 w/ better heads? This is one area I could use so guidance...
The other is cam selection... 454 w/ blower What kind of specs? If I went 402?
Thanks for any help...
Jason
I am thinking that I will go the 454 LSx route w/ a KB 2.8L. If they are going to make a manifold to work on the L92's I would like to run the PRC L92's due to the great price/performance factor. With the $ savings over a LS7 head it pays the difference for the LSx block.
Am I stupid to use the heads? Should I go 402 w/ better heads? This is one area I could use so guidance...
The other is cam selection... 454 w/ blower What kind of specs? If I went 402?
Thanks for any help...
Jason
what kind of power are you gunning for????
have you thought about twin turbo???
Chris.
04-24-2007, 01:46 AM
#13
FormerVendor
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: "Sin City" Las Vegas
Posts: 520
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You are correct... Its in the works now..
But that doesnt mean you cant do it either. That means theres 2 crazy people in this world..
BTW, my BIGGER and BETTER 403 will be here tomorrow afternoon. It was finished up by LME (Late Model Engines) last week.
900rwtq 850rwhp is in the VERY near future..
But that doesnt mean you cant do it either. That means theres 2 crazy people in this world..
BTW, my BIGGER and BETTER 403 will be here tomorrow afternoon. It was finished up by LME (Late Model Engines) last week.
900rwtq 850rwhp is in the VERY near future..
Originally Posted by LSxChevelle
The 2.8 is a big blower and I think AmericanHP is doing 454 w/ 2.8 KB. After seeing his 403 dyno of 801/851 with an impressive 715is tq at 2K I fell in love...
I do want to see what GMPP will introduce for the LSx and pricing though...
I do want to see what GMPP will introduce for the LSx and pricing though...
04-24-2007, 12:09 PM
#15
I read that some of the forced induction guys were having problems with ring seal problems after making big power and some miles on the motor (ie 2-3K miles racing/street driving) with LS1 blocks. They would hone and re-ring and then the problem would show up again in 2-3 more miles.
The solution was going with an LS2 block. Voila! 800-1000rwhp and no issues. We are talking a few 3800lb F-bodies on here with big single turbo, LS2 block, stock LS1 crank, good rods/pistons, out of the box AFR 225's, stock LS6 intake, ported stock TB, and T-88 turbo running mid 8's@160mph+.
The solution was going with an LS2 block. Voila! 800-1000rwhp and no issues. We are talking a few 3800lb F-bodies on here with big single turbo, LS2 block, stock LS1 crank, good rods/pistons, out of the box AFR 225's, stock LS6 intake, ported stock TB, and T-88 turbo running mid 8's@160mph+.
04-24-2007, 12:44 PM
#16
TECH Addict
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Enumclaw, WA
Posts: 2,566
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well there "shouldn't" be a problem with the new LSx block but only time will tell. My guess though is with claims of 2,500hp strength, they have put a few to the test...
It sounds so easy! That is a great point though that the shortblock really ain't too expensive and can handle some damn impressive #'s!
Originally Posted by gnx7
The solution was going with an LS2 block. Voila! 800-1000rwhp and no issues. We are talking a few 3800lb F-bodies on here with big single turbo, LS2 block, stock LS1 crank, good rods/pistons, out of the box AFR 225's, stock LS6 intake, ported stock TB, and T-88 turbo running mid 8's@160mph+.
04-24-2007, 01:12 PM
#17
TECH Addict
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Enumclaw, WA
Posts: 2,566
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Part of my 454 deal is to have a 454 in the Chevelle. So lets say I have the same 403 motor as you Jeff. Would I see any gains/losses at any point by running a 454 over say a 403? I understand the heads may choke it a little but would it still make equal or more power?
04-24-2007, 01:36 PM
#18
Maybe you're not understanding how important the head gasket is to sealing the motor. With a 4.155" bore, the block is still strong enough to stay rigid, but the head gasket has very little area between the cylinders to seal all that boost. The gasket seal will be your weak link, not the strength of the block.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
04-24-2007, 02:22 PM
#19
TECH Addict
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Enumclaw, WA
Posts: 2,566
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I definately understand what you are saying about the thickness between cylinders. A lot of pressure for a thin area.
Jeff, what are your plans for a 454 if you don't mind sharing?...
Jeff, what are your plans for a 454 if you don't mind sharing?...
04-25-2007, 01:21 AM
#20
Originally Posted by gnx7
I read that some of the forced induction guys were having problems with ring seal problems after making big power and some miles on the motor (ie 2-3K miles racing/street driving) with LS1 blocks. They would hone and re-ring and then the problem would show up again in 2-3 more miles.
also the ally LS1s have been proven to run consistanly over 1000bhp on resleved blocks. the LS2 is thought by some to be not as strong as the LS1!!
Chris.