Help with master cylinder questing/issues. Swap car...PICS
05-02-2007, 06:07 PM
#1
Help with master cylinder questing/issues. Swap car...PICS Hey everyone. I have some questions and Im looking for some input. First of all...this car is a 87 Trans AM. 99 LS1 T56 swap. Have about 2000 miles on the swap. Im doing a second round of work to it to iron out bugs and what not.
Anyway, I noticed that I had fluid leaking out of the front of the clutch master cylinder. Enough to drip on the carpet. Which brings me to my very first question.
Is the outer boot where the rod goes in supposed to hold fluid in? Or is fluid never supposed to make it that far?
My next issue is because this is a swap car, and the 87 was an auto before, the master cylinder and push rod arent quite lined up perfect when installed. So there is a slight angle when the rod goes in. I know this is bad...but Im working on it. I just want to see if you all agree that this is why it started to leak.
Here are some pictures.... The master cylinder that was in the car was a RAM adjustable.
Here is the plunger and you can see the scoring on the side of it above the first seal. My theory is that due to the angle, it was putting more pressure of there and caused it to score. Which then ruined the seals as they went over the scored cylinder.
Here is another thing..when you make a stock MC adjustable, you are supposed to cut the internal stop. This stop doesnt appear to be shorter than stock. Does RAM not cut the stop on their master cylinders?
Here is another thing I thought might be wrong. The cylinder sleeve on one side seems to stick up more. Im wondering if this caused the scoring on the plunger...not so much the pushing at a slight angle.
Ok...thats it for now. Since my set up is alittle different than stock LS1, I want to make my new master cylinder adjustable. Im thinking about just swapping rods instead of making the stock rod adjustable. Im just un decided on whether I should cut the internal stop or not, since the RAM one wasnt cut.
Anyway...Im not even sure how much of this post made sense...if it did, and anyone has any input, Ide really appreciate it. I have the new master cylinder already, and I wanted to make it adjustable while doing the drill mod...
Thanks!!
Justin
Anyway, I noticed that I had fluid leaking out of the front of the clutch master cylinder. Enough to drip on the carpet. Which brings me to my very first question.
Is the outer boot where the rod goes in supposed to hold fluid in? Or is fluid never supposed to make it that far?
My next issue is because this is a swap car, and the 87 was an auto before, the master cylinder and push rod arent quite lined up perfect when installed. So there is a slight angle when the rod goes in. I know this is bad...but Im working on it. I just want to see if you all agree that this is why it started to leak.
Here are some pictures.... The master cylinder that was in the car was a RAM adjustable.
Here is the plunger and you can see the scoring on the side of it above the first seal. My theory is that due to the angle, it was putting more pressure of there and caused it to score. Which then ruined the seals as they went over the scored cylinder.
Here is another thing..when you make a stock MC adjustable, you are supposed to cut the internal stop. This stop doesnt appear to be shorter than stock. Does RAM not cut the stop on their master cylinders?
Here is another thing I thought might be wrong. The cylinder sleeve on one side seems to stick up more. Im wondering if this caused the scoring on the plunger...not so much the pushing at a slight angle.
Ok...thats it for now. Since my set up is alittle different than stock LS1, I want to make my new master cylinder adjustable. Im thinking about just swapping rods instead of making the stock rod adjustable. Im just un decided on whether I should cut the internal stop or not, since the RAM one wasnt cut.
Anyway...Im not even sure how much of this post made sense...if it did, and anyone has any input, Ide really appreciate it. I have the new master cylinder already, and I wanted to make it adjustable while doing the drill mod...
Thanks!!
Justin
05-02-2007, 07:32 PM
#2
9 Second Club
Outer boot does not seal.
Top pic, right hand side at the blue bit is the seal.
Re the sleeve. If it is round and runs true...cant see why it would cause scoring.
Id like to see one of thes "adjustable" master cylinders. Because simply altering the pushrod length, wont really do anything.
Unless you change the pedal stroke, or relationship between pedal stroke/pivot and MC stroke....the amount of fluid passed isnt going to change.
And bluffing by lifting the pedal higher, or reducing pedal travel, well its strange, and could leave the pedal in a very uncomfortable position to actually use ??
Top pic, right hand side at the blue bit is the seal.
Re the sleeve. If it is round and runs true...cant see why it would cause scoring.
Id like to see one of thes "adjustable" master cylinders. Because simply altering the pushrod length, wont really do anything.
Unless you change the pedal stroke, or relationship between pedal stroke/pivot and MC stroke....the amount of fluid passed isnt going to change.
And bluffing by lifting the pedal higher, or reducing pedal travel, well its strange, and could leave the pedal in a very uncomfortable position to actually use ??
05-03-2007, 06:56 AM
#3
Hey thanks for the responses..
I know which part is the seal and all that. And I dont see why the plunger and the cylinder wouldnt be true round. I just figured if that rod was at an angle, it would put pressure on one side of the cylinder more than the other. And cause it wear out the seal and scrape up the sides of the plunger and cylinder.
I must mention that the donor car I got this off of was aslo an A4 - M6 car. The previous owner doesnt know how many miles were on the hydraulics, only that they were the upgraded ones. So who knows..maybe this one was just on its way out from the get go????
I think the deal with the adj ones is, you can make it longer and have the clutch engage further from the floor, or you can make it shorter and have it engage closer to the floor.
My deal with the adj is, just do to the fact that my firewall is slightly diff. than the 4th gens. I like that adjustability just to make it all fit better. I dont see why I would have to cut the internal stop though. I mean I just want the arm adj, not the action. So I might just swap rods and be done with it...
Anymore input guys?
Justin
I know which part is the seal and all that. And I dont see why the plunger and the cylinder wouldnt be true round. I just figured if that rod was at an angle, it would put pressure on one side of the cylinder more than the other. And cause it wear out the seal and scrape up the sides of the plunger and cylinder.
I must mention that the donor car I got this off of was aslo an A4 - M6 car. The previous owner doesnt know how many miles were on the hydraulics, only that they were the upgraded ones. So who knows..maybe this one was just on its way out from the get go????
I think the deal with the adj ones is, you can make it longer and have the clutch engage further from the floor, or you can make it shorter and have it engage closer to the floor.
My deal with the adj is, just do to the fact that my firewall is slightly diff. than the 4th gens. I like that adjustability just to make it all fit better. I dont see why I would have to cut the internal stop though. I mean I just want the arm adj, not the action. So I might just swap rods and be done with it...
Anymore input guys?
Justin
05-04-2007, 08:06 AM
#4
Anymore feedback? Im going to probably modify my new master cylinder today (drill mod, swapping adjustable rod over). I want to leave time to concentrate on making the master and rod line up better. I think I can modify the mount holes and swivel the master body and it will line up better. I hope...
Justin
Justin
