Dynamometer Results & Comparisons - ET heads blew up my motor.

Just kidding :) I thought that would get some attention. I have some stock bore 215cc results. First I give a run down on the setup.

1980 malibu.
Stock bottom end with arp rod bolts.
cometic .040 gaskets.
ET 215cc heads milled to 59cc
Custom speed inc grind cam.(I'll let them post specs if they want to)
Speed Inc ported LS6 intake.
Speed inc 4l60e with ss3600 nitrous convertor.Steel nitrous driveshaft.
Ford 9 inch with spool/ 3.90 gears 17 inch et street radial
Hacked up Mac F body headers. ( Only headers we could get to work)
headers go into 3inch y pipe to a 4 inch merge then a 3 1/2 cutout.
TNT 200 shot(F2)

All runs were made with locked convertor. Motor passes were made on 93 octane. Nitrous passes were made with a mix of 93 and 116

First the motor passes. I was hoping for 440 rwhp with these crappy headers. I ended up with 445 rwhp and 406rwtq. I was extremly happpy. :)

Now for the nitrous runs
I started with the nitrous jetted for 200 nitrous and 200 fuel. First pull was only for 1.5 seconds and it went a little lean. It made 656 rwhp. Pulled the tr6 plus and put in tr8 plugs. I put the 250 fuel jets in it. We made another pass and were in the middle of a run and we had a nitrous backfire thru the intake and heard a noise from the motor and shut it down. It made 676 rwhp :eek2: but it hurt the motor. Something is going on with the nitrous kit. So I'm in the middle of teardown. I blew a hole in the back of the intake. I have the motor out of the car for inspection. The intake is junk. The heads look fine. No holes in pistons or block. Short block turns over by hand. Pieces of the intake made it into the cambers so that might be the noise we heard. It's time to freshen up the shortblock anyways. Motor has 5 seasons of racing on it with multiple mid to low 10 second passes on it.

I never would of thought we would be at this power level on a a4 stock bottom end motor. We were hoping for 620-630 rwhp on the nitrous. The 676rwhp was made at about 5,000 rpm. If it would have stayed together it would have made 700rwhp.

I want to thank everyone at Speed Inc. for helping me pick the setup. I'm very inpressed with the quality of the ET heads. I can't believe that we picked up so much power on the gas :eek2: My previous heads and cam made 585rwhp on the 200 shot and 413 rwhp on the motor. I wanted a setup that would rock on the gas and ET and Speed inc delievered. Hopefully someone at speed can post a graph.

Dam!!!!

Nice power, just too bad it wouldnt stay together.

It went lean for 1.5 seconds on the run and it backfired. I think we are pushing the stock parts pretty hard. I don't know of two many people making this kind of power on a stock shortblock thru and a4. With a six speed I would be over 700rwhp. I might stay with a stock shortblock and spray 150 shot on it. Should still make 630-650 rwhp. That should put me in the high nines in my 3600 lb tank.

We where all shocked at the power since it still had the Mac's on it. The others would have to see them to see what was done to make them work..what 5 years ago?

The motor doesn't look to be hurt, but will be torn down next week to be certain. The noise may have just been the 2 chunks of plastic in the #2 cylinder bore be slapped around. I am sure the intake missing the entire a$$ end made things sound worse.

The cam INTMD8 spec'd out worked well with the ETP's. The cam is not big by todays standards either..that's the best part . under 240 duration and has awesome drivability :)

can't wait for you to get it back together for some new #'s and track times :devil:

The car will be driven to the track and clip a 9 second pass.... I am sure of it.

The new SS4000, Fast 90 , NW 90 TB and possibly the 370 cu will really wake things up . :)

BTW : Thanks for the hand moving things into the fresh basement today !

No problem on the help.

Not much interest in ET head results??

Interested for sure, to bad no videos :judge:

I love my ET 245`s on my 408. Greg good worked mine over.
These are the numbers from my bench. 28", 4.030" bore, and no pipe on the exhaust port.


Intake Exhaust
.200" 148 117
.300" 228 160
.400" 301 196
.500" 339 247
.600" 354 263
.650" 354 269
.700" 355 272
ET makes some awsome heads!!

Awesome numbers man, those things shine on the gas! I am looking at putting together a similar combo, except splitting up the hit 100/100 to limit the torque spike for the stock bottom end. Your results give me hope!

Marty

you say stock bottom end, but you cant mean stock pistons, DO YOU? no way would I think stock pistons/rings could live with that much juice.

Just kidding :) I thought that would get some attention. I have some stock bore 215cc results. First I give a run down on the setup.

1980 malibu.
Stock bottom end with arp rod bolts.
cometic .040 gaskets.
ET 215cc heads milled to 59cc
Custom speed inc grind cam.(I'll let them post specs if they want to)
Speed Inc ported LS6 intake.
Speed inc 4l60e with ss3600 nitrous convertor.Steel nitrous driveshaft.
Ford 9 inch with spool/ 3.90 gears 17 inch et street radial
Hacked up Mac F body headers. ( Only headers we could get to work)
headers go into 3inch y pipe to a 4 inch merge then a 3 1/2 cutout.
TNT 200 shot(F2)

All runs were made with locked convertor. Motor passes were made on 93 octane. Nitrous passes were made with a mix of 93 and 116

First the motor passes. I was hoping for 440 rwhp with these crappy headers. I ended up with 445 rwhp and 406rwtq. I was extremly happpy. :)

Now for the nitrous runs
I started with the nitrous jetted for 200 nitrous and 200 fuel. First pull was only for 1.5 seconds and it went a little lean. It made 656 rwhp. Pulled the tr6 plus and put in tr8 plugs. I put the 250 fuel jets in it. We made another pass and were in the middle of a run and we had a nitrous backfire thru the intake and heard a noise from the motor and shut it down. It made 676 rwhp :eek2: but it hurt the motor. Something is going on with the nitrous kit. So I'm in the middle of teardown. I blew a hole in the back of the intake. I have the motor out of the car for inspection. The intake is junk. The heads look fine. No holes in pistons or block. Short block turns over by hand. Pieces of the intake made it into the cambers so that might be the noise we heard. It's time to freshen up the shortblock anyways. Motor has 5 seasons of racing on it with multiple mid to low 10 second passes on it.

I never would of thought we would be at this power level on a a4 stock bottom end motor. We were hoping for 620-630 rwhp on the nitrous. The 676rwhp was made at about 5,000 rpm. If it would have stayed together it would have made 700rwhp.

I want to thank everyone at Speed Inc. for helping me pick the setup. I'm very inpressed with the quality of the ET heads. I can't believe that we picked up so much power on the gas :eek2: My previous heads and cam made 585rwhp on the 200 shot and 413 rwhp on the motor. I wanted a setup that would rock on the gas and ET and Speed inc delievered. Hopefully someone at speed can post a graph.



Nice numbers man! TNT kits rock.

you say stock bottom end, but you cant mean stock pistons, DO YOU? no way would I think stock pistons/rings could live with that much juice.


yep..stock with exception of ARP rod bolts. :)

We did not expect a lean condition or that much of a gain on the juice. The car would have been on borrowed time, but it would have still lived for a bit if it wasn't for a fuel delivery / distribution problem. 1,7 & 2 burned 2 times

gotta have the solenoids checked and probally shoot it with less

would love to see a fogger on the car...what do you say Bro ?

put a metal intake on it screw plastic
what year is the engine?
i didnt think eutetic pistons could stand thaty kinda shot

The block and internals are 02 ls6 model. I should have an answer on the shortblock next week. After the results I'll have to decide if I want to fix the stock shortblock and spray a 150 shot or put a forged piston in the motor and keep the 200 shot.

Flipped manifolds, 2 turbos. Do it.

I wish I had the funds for the turbo or turbo's. I might end up doing an iron block motor. So when I go for the boost engine I can change the pistons and cam.

well bringing this back to the top...

-intake back end was clean blown off

-1 rod was bent

during the down time the car went thru a lot of changes

gutted interior, new carpet, seats, cut out 10pt cage, re-wires entire car, sound proof everything etc, etc

anyway : The motor now is a Sportsman 348 with a couple extra touches.
Eagle Rods
Diamond Pistons
Stock Crank
Fast 90 intake ( unported )
NW 90 TB
ETP 215 59 CC ( out of box )
Cometic .045
12.2:1
Nitrous Outlet 90MM Plate... 200+ hit sooner or later :devil:

The stall was also sent back to Yank for an upgrade.

The car will be on the Dyno tomorrow and hoping for some good results & track Sunday.

NA only for now until we finish up some Nitrous stuff and do some testing with the new setup.

winter project : port intake and put some real headers on the car

Have some news. Got a call from speed. Made 457rwhp. Not sure on torque. Will post results as soon as I pick up car.

bad ass. thats a hell of a car

I had to leave early and missed out on the tuning. The combo came together well and with the intake porting, headers and some miles the spring results should be even better!

This setup should rock...especially on the JUG :nod:

BTW: I will get the graph posted for you tomorrow bro.

did you guys make some custom headers or what? very impressed with the results. hydraulic cam right?

yes..hydraulic cam

headers are Mac Midlength F-body header which we cut, hammered , smashed about 5 years ago to fit. They are sad looking, but get the job done.

We are going to play with his car and try some 1 3/4 or stepped headers and see what we can make work over winter.

Are you running a seperate fuel system for the nitrous? If not what is your fuel system? I would bet anything that was your problem. Andy. Btw, nice results!

I have a extra twin turbo set up laying around if your in need!

forgot to note that TNT said the fuel noid was no good

They did replace it for us which was nice.

The car has a Bosch 420 , braided line and billet rails. The pump should be good for 750ish being a NA/N20 motor.

also went with the Nitrous plate for better distribution over the nozzles

forgot to note that TNT said the fuel noid was no good

They did replace it for us which was nice.

The car has a Bosch 420 , braided line and billet rails. The pump should be good for 750ish being a NA/N20 motor.

also went with the Nitrous plate for better distribution over the nozzles


If your going to shoot 250 and above I would put a seperate fuel pump and regulator on just for the nitrous. With out them it's very hard to maintain a/f and fuel pressure, they seem to all ways want to lean spike!! Andy

agreed....anything more then 200 a stand alone would be best

The system doesn't feed off the rail though which helps in his case. The fuel noid has it's own seperate supply off a Y from the regulator.

That thing is going to fly.

plan to make some NA runs this Sunday @ Byron

tune the kit next weekend and then back out for some killer passes around the 21st

dyno graph -

www.ls1speed.com/pictures/ls1bu.jpg

Need more car pics.. Mine is coming together... 6.0, G5x3... what tranny mods you have? I want OD, but not wanting to spend the moolah on it.... Killer setup

Nice #'s!!!! Did you have to flycut the pistons with that cam? I'm looking for a custom grind to replace my MS3.

no flycutting or when it had stock pistons

original setup
stock short
59CC ETP 215's
Cometic .040

This would need to be checked on a stock head setup as we have not done so yet.

By chance was the bent rod in cylinder #3 ?


well bringing this back to the top...

-intake back end was clean blown off

-1 rod was bent

during the down time the car went thru a lot of changes

gutted interior, new carpet, seats, cut out 10pt cage, re-wires entire car, sound proof everything etc, etc

anyway : The motor now is a Sportsman 348 with a couple extra touches.
Eagle Rods
Diamond Pistons
Stock Crank
Fast 90 intake ( unported )
NW 90 TB
ETP 215 59 CC ( out of box )
Cometic .045
12.2:1
Nitrous Outlet 90MM Plate... 200+ hit sooner or later :devil:

The stall was also sent back to Yank for an upgrade.

The car will be on the Dyno tomorrow and hoping for some good results & track Sunday.

NA only for now until we finish up some Nitrous stuff and do some testing with the new setup.

winter project : port intake and put some real headers on the car

Trans is a speed inc 4l60e. Have had in the car for 5 seasons now. Trans has never given me any problems.

I'm real happy with the results. I'm having the tunning double checked today. Feels like the car might be getting some knock retard on the street. Car didn't knock on the dyno. I'm running about 12 to 1 compression. I might need to mix in some octane booster or a little 100 octane.

I don't remember which rod was bent.

I drove it in today and thought I heard a little detonation. The weather is great and making more power. This could have just put us over the border line for fuel requirements.

a few logs and tweaks and I am sure it will be good

track sunday for some testing :cheers:

Very nice!!!!

well all is good with the car....needs a little mix of 100 octane to keep it away from detonation with the compression.

yes..timing can be pulled, but it was built to make power :)

The car should show some good results Sunday if weather sticks with us.

I am going to get some updated pics to of the car at the track.

Just go done driving 30 miles to work. The driveability is great. I want to thank everyone at speed inc for the fine work and attention to detail.

Just go done driving 30 miles to work. The driveability is great. I want to thank everyone at speed inc for the fine work and attention to detail.



Sounds good it should rip tomorrow!

will be waiting for results. so the answer was a little added octane cause of the ait temps putting 93 a little under the edge of "enough" octane? what symptoms did it have? loss of power due to knock retard?

audible ( sp ? ) detonation in 3rd gear

a little 1 octane and it is good

We are leaving for the track soon and will have results this evening.

not the best outing

20-30 mph head wind :(

killer for a car which has 0 aerodynamics

full street trim with 17 ZR1's

I don't have the time slip. but think it was as follows...

1.58 60ft
11.45
114 mph

I think with a good day the car will go 117-118 and 11.2's especially after some miles on the motor. The combo was built for a spray setup and I am sure it will be a solid 9 second car on a 150 shot.

I am sure my brother can be a bit more accurate on the above info.

so not bad for the first day out concidering the bad wind and weather

few pics :

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o184/svtspeed04/dad-charlie002.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o184/svtspeed04/dad-charlie018-1.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o184/svtspeed04/dad-charlie019.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o184/svtspeed04/dad-charlie001.jpg

Best time was
11.48 et
1.58 60ft
115.73 mph

I was expecting solid 116-118 trap speeds
I think the car still has 11.20's pass on horsepower. That was what I wanted to build. Car shud rock on the jug. I sometimes forget that I am comparing my old non aerodynamic car to f bodys whick have aerodynamic advantage. I'm sure the bad head wind would just make that worse. Car is not set up for horse power I'm only going thru the traps at 6300 rpm and my car shifts at 6800-7000 rpm. Hopefully we will get some better weather and less wind and I'll have some better results.

Should have some nitrous results in a few weeks.

End of the year is getting close for us in chicagoland.

Race weight 3510 lbs.

3510 with or without you ?

Nice ride and numbers. Can't wait to hear what she does on the jug. Back to the original post, if you made 676 that early from 445 (which comes later) you were really running more of a 250 shot. I don't care how they label it, the car was making 250 over NA. Something to keep in mind next time out on the hit. Too bad it did not hit right, would have been nice to see numbers at the end. But I am guessing the rod would have bent after that size shot.

Why did you cut out the 10pnt?

I dont agree with your 250 shot coment. Let me give you some history on the setup. I think it is in the original post. My last heads and cam combo with the same tnt kit made 413 rwhp on motor and 585 rwhp on spay. So is was picking up 170 rwhp with a 200 shoot. That was ls6 heads with stock valves stage one porting and a 230/232 xer came with 112 lobe sep. With the same stock shortblock and swaping to ET heads and a custom cam I made 445 rwhp on motor and 676rwhp on the same 200 shot TNT. So now I'm picking up 230 rwhp on a 200 shot. Same kit same jets. So the setup is what made the nitrous pick up more power. When I made the 676 rwhp is when the fuel solenoid when bad and motor when lean and had a nitrous backfire.

Weight is 3510 with me. Keep in ming that is without my 20lb nitrous bottle. Also that is without my radio amp and sub in the car. That is gonna add a good 100 lbs.

YES...a much better H/C combo can show greater gains with same jetting

The 10 PT. he removed to make it less of a PITA getting in and out being a street car.

no trailer queen here....see the rock chips

I understand that a better combo will do better on the gas, but you can't create power from nothing. If it is pilled to make another 200hp, then it should not make more than 200hp. Now, I can see the motor making a little more due to being lean, but 200hp of N2O is 200hp of N2O. So the jetting is not a true 200hp of N2O. Unless the pressure was higher. But all in all, now he knows what the "200" jets can do on his new motor.

I am fine with saying I am no nitrous expert.

I hear what you are saying in regards to HP....jets are all base figures to work off of. I see this in many cases that we have to jet the fuel side up 1-2 sizes for a safe A/F.

however the power gains are obvious at the same jetting..though a little leaner. This leads me to believe the combo works much better on the jug in which it was designed for.

who knows .... it will get the job done it was intended for :)

who knows .... it will get the job done it was intended for :)

This is all that really matters.

Just more proof that TNT is under rated is all I am getting at.

I think I am going to drag him out to Cordova for the MFBA rental. This should give us enough time to sort out the N20 stuff.

you going out to that ?

Not Cordova, but Moraco if it is still going on. OctaneZ28 said it still may be on. No confirmation yet.

This is all that really matters.

Just more proof that TNT is under rated is all I am getting at.

With a 232/240 cam and 5.3 Stg 1.5 heads with 225cc intake volume my car would pick up 200 RWHP on a TNT 250 shot.

With competition level hand finished LS6 heads with a 232cc intake port volume and a exhaust port that flowed 240 @ .400 and 270@ .500 on a 3.90 bore, it would pick up almost 300 RWHP on a 250 shot, same cam, same headers, etc.

Brian...good info

when are you testing the new combo ?

With a 232/240 cam and 5.3 Stg 1.5 heads with 225cc intake volume my car would pick up 200 RWHP on a TNT 250 shot.

With competition level hand finished LS6 heads with a 232cc intake port volume and a exhaust port that flowed 240 @ .400 and 270@ .500 on a 3.90 bore, it would pick up almost 300 RWHP on a 250 shot, same cam, same headers, etc.

I believe it. Not doubting it. I would just think as you are building a set-up and know what you want to throw at it and it makes more, then you are at risk of blowing stuff up. Sure more is always better, but there are limits and if you know you are close by throwing in 200 jets, then it makes 250, better hope you did not hurt it. But then I guess it is your own fault for not starting low and working up. Just an observation and food for thought.

BTW: Sorry to sidetrack.

so the car weighs ~3300 lbs? i'm guessing you at ~200lbs obviously. how much did the sound proofing material weigh? geez...

shortness runs in our family :) I am guessing my lil bro in the 170 area.

Going to the track next friday for some motor passes and to try out the nitrous kit.

I believe it. Not doubting it. I would just think as you are building a set-up and know what you want to throw at it and it makes more, then you are at risk of blowing stuff up. Sure more is always better, but there are limits and if you know you are close by throwing in 200 jets, then it makes 250, better hope you did not hurt it. But then I guess it is your own fault for not starting low and working up. Just an observation and food for thought.

BTW: Sorry to sidetrack.



When your fuel soleniod doesn't work your going to have a problem a any size shot! Nitrous is risky business.

Nitrous is risky business.

got the right...

I always think about the guys with 400+ and how they can even tune something like that.

one bad hit and thats all she wrote

Brian...good info

when are you testing the new combo ?

At this point I'm as bad as a woman who doesn't know which dress to wear. :emb:

I had a 427 N/A shortblock, sold that to buy the twin turbo kit with the W2W shortblock, sold that because I was poor. Started working on a stock shortblock, thought I would rering it, had it honed, the walls were in bad shape, bought oversize pistons and rods, and now I am thinking about selling it before it's even finished so I can build a stroker. :confused:

I would love to have a 440-454 cu in LSX block like Vengeance or LMR built and make over 600 RWHP on motor. If my car doesn't run by next spring I'm going to have to find a new place to live, cause it currently takes up the entire 2 car garage and it snows about 50" a year here, and my wife is tired of scraping windows. :punch:

:funny: :rotflmao:

Tooley, you and your car are gonna be livin in a tent!:jest:

Sounds like a fun car. Black out that grille.

still the same old you :)

tonight is going to be killer for the track... 54 for the high & low 40's- high 30's at night

no head wind either to slow the tank down

going out in full street trim with 17" M/T DR's again, but should see some 11.2's on nuts and looking for some decent MPH on 150 shot

we'll see:devil:

tonight is going to be killer for the track... 54 for the high & low 40's- high 30's at night

no head wind either to slow the tank down

going out in full street trim with 17" M/T DR's again, but should see some 11.2's on nuts and looking for some decent MPH on 150 shot

we'll see:devil:

good luck with those drag radials in teh cold. I was pulling 1.64 sixties in 95deg heat in june, then went back in sept. thinking those tires were working great after all, but with a cold track, couldnt get traction for SNIT. I think those tires are only ok when the sun is beatin down, and the track is very hot. Id take along a set of et streets if you got some just in case you want to switch to them if you cant get traction. I hate getting all the way to the track, spending the money to only spin.
Im only guessing you got another set of wheels cause the way you said your goin in street trim. implying that you have a set of race wheels too? anyways good luck, cant wait to see the results. I waited all fricken summer to go to an event last sat. cause it was supposed to be cold right? wrong. it was 85 and felt like 95 due to the humidity. but this weekend should be great for you.

chris

The DR's worked great in the cold. The car was actually in the 1.5's NA pulling the front tire w/17's.

I do not recall the details, but will get mt bro to post them up.

admin...if you would like us to post in Drag Racing please inform us

must be the difference in track prep then. were they torching the line? they did not when I went (diff. track ofcourse) in 50 deg. temps and cloudy so no sun either to warm up the starting line.

must be the difference in track prep then. were they torching the line? they did not when I went (diff. track ofcourse) in 50 deg. temps and cloudy so no sun either to warm up the starting line.

track prep was good, but we raced at night in low 40 degree weather

I was also racing my fathers 01 Z/28 which has 275/50/15 M/T's and went 1.48 60FT

Drag radials worked pretty good considering the cold track.

I have a new best on motor and some nitrous results.

Motor
1.60 60ft
7.22 et 1/8
94.29 1/8 mph
11.41 1/4 et
117.17 1/4 mph

I was trying to get the car to work on the 275/40/17 ET Street radials
I delayed the nitrous to 4000 rpm. Car left on motor then nitrous came on 40 feet out. I felt some bad tire shake/spinning. I stayed in it and this is what I got

1.56 60ft
6.67 1/8 et
104.62 1/8 mph
10.45 1/4 et
128.90 1/4 mph

The car is about out of gear for this 150 shot on the 275/40/17 drag radials
Car shifts at 6900-7000 rpm and I'm going thru the traps at 7200 rpm. I think I should pick up some mph with my 28 inch tall tires. I'm really happy with how the car performed. The nitrous tune up is extremly safe.

I ran tr8 plugs gapped at .030
110 octane fuel
20 degrees of timming
a/f in the 11.5/1 area.

I want to the everyone at speed for the help with the setup.

Next time I'm going the the track with the 28/1050/15 et drags and a 150 and 200 shot.

I forgot to mention that I drove the car to the track whick is about a 220 mile round trip and raced/ I averaged about 20-22 miles per gallon on my trip to the track. I had only one problem all day. I ripped two spark plug wires changing plugs in the pits. I had to borrow to spark plug wires from a friend. Thanks buddy.

glad to help Bro

car is working well

I do want to note that nothing goes for free on this car. I do not want it to look as a shop build though we help in every way. We sell all parts and built the motor, but the installs are always at home in the garage. The parts and dyno time are discounted but all paid for...nothing is free.

anyway...can't wait to get it on a tire and really let it fly. The 9 sec pass will come and then drive it home :)

This is a home built setup. I get great help and advise from Speed. They give me great deals on products. But this setup has has many long sleepless nights put into it by me. Along with some blood/sweat and beers. :nod:

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o184/svtspeed04/OctRSD07fri048.jpg

Damn, nice launch on the 17s! Track prep at GLD has been much better this year.

:hail: damn impressive. my 1.59 launch's dont look anything like that. perhaps due to weight and my stock struts and cut coil's?
eitherway, thats a bad ass car you got there. good luck with it.

chris

Just an update. Got some good air. New results in drag racing section.
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8062911#post8062911