Ironxcross

iTrader: (8)

discuss

94CamaroZ28SS

well its simple the 160 Thermo opens at 160 degrees which keeps the engine cooler and is recomended if you use hypertech programmer. i think the stock thermo is 180 Degrees maybe 192 im not sure.

Formula350

iTrader: (3)

Stock is 180. 160 is good if you've got a tune.

FAD2BLK93

Stock starts to open at 180...fully open at 195
160 t-stat starts at 160...fully open at 175

CaramelPleasure

If I were to get a 160 tstat do I have to get a tune or is it ok for my car to have it stock.???

FAD2BLK93

My first mod was the 160 hypertech t-stat...and I ran it for months with no issues, before I got a PCMFORLESS tune.

Ironxcross

iTrader: (8)

i heard it makes the car run richer, reduces mileage slightly and might not let you pass emissions. any truth to that?

StealthFormula

iTrader: (35)

^^I'm doubting all that I use to have one in my '95 no problems. I wouldnt run one without the computer tuned for it though personally.

Formula350

iTrader: (3)

You can run any w/o a tune, it's just how WELL it runs. I'm sure it does impact your fuel and combustion enough to make a bit of a difference, but probably not a huge or noticeable one. I wouldn't doubt it having an impact on your emissions though. Whether or not it prevents you from passing, if you previously did, is another story (unless you were borderline).

3pnt4maro

iTrader: (2)

heats up a bit faster if you dont have the tune to get your fans on earlier..or a fan switch..these two should compliment each other..

infinitebird

iTrader: (11)

There's nothing in the computer to "tune" for a thermostat. It's purely mechanical. So you don't need a tune for it per se. The tune most people recommend with it is to lower the fan enable temperatures. This is a complimentary thing that can enhance cooling along with the thermostat, but its seperate and not related to the thermostat operation at all.

infinitebird

iTrader: (11)

I don't see any reason why it would run richer, so I call bs on that.

It may reduce gas mileage slightly simply because you will get better mileage with the engine running hotter, but you won't make as much power. I would guess the difference would be very small though.

The emissions thing is kind of the same idea, to pass emissions you need to heat things up enough to warm the cats before the test, I don't see why it would affect that significantly though as long as its been running for a while before the test.

Formula350

iTrader: (3)

I'll be the first one to chime in and start to correct you.

For starters, you can't tune for the Thermostat itself, but everyone here knows that. You tune for the conditions the lower temperature gives. Cooler air is more dense, and dense air is MUCH better for cars. You get more power, better fuel economy, and much better combustion. The reason why it's not exaclty "good" to run a 160 w/o a tune, is because the computer is under the assumption you're running the stock stat, and it'll still calc out everything with that in mind. You tune it for a 160 and you then get to factor in all those new things. Thats why running a 160 is such a good idea, and why most smart people with a Carb motor (who don't really worry about winter time), run a 160. The reason it's nice to run a hotter stat in winter, is simply to have warmer heat

All those factor into the power, emissions and gas mileage.

Ironxcross

iTrader: (8)

well im confused.

i have the 160 stat with the tune. i havent really noticed a drop off in mileage, it runs cool all the time. i dont know. im still confused as hell.

infinitebird

iTrader: (11)

You must have misunderstood me, because you just agreed with what I said. I was saying you won't make as much power with higher engine temps, i.e. you will make more power by lowering them, which you can do by installing a 160.

I completely agree that it is "good" to run a 160. As to the notion that you must have a tune or that it's bad to change the thermostat without one, sorry bro but you are wrong here. The computer is not under the "assumption" that you are running any thermostat. As I said it's purely a mechanical part. It has no interaction with the computer. All the computer cares about is the coolant temp. I have tuned a lot of LT1 cars and there is absolutely nothing in the ecu settings (at least that are programable) that has to do with the density of the air or such things that needs to be changed just because of a different temp thermostat. There are a few tables that deal with coolant temp that could possibly be optimized but that's definitely not a necessity. Even with the stock tune the computer will know what settings to use for the temp it's seeing. That's all it cares about. The only thing that may be beneficial other than the fan tems is that you could probably run a few more degrees of timing because of the cooler temps. I'm not saying a tune cannot benefit you. There are many benefits you can get from a tune even on a stock car, but the idea that it is somehow harmful to not have a tune with a 160 thermo is completely false.

The thermo has one function, it opens to allow coolant passage when the specified temperature is reached. It has zero interaction with any electronic components or sensors.

sdm1234

iTrader: (8)

exactly! having a 160 t-stat without a tune won't damage anything. the computer won;t know the difference. it just won't kick the fans on as early, that's all. and with all these people that say a cooler engine helps with combustion, that's correct ONLY for the air coming in. it's been proven time and time again that only Chevy blocks, optimal heat for most efficient combustion is anywhere is between 190 and 210. there's no arguing that! however, for those saying a cooler temp will make better power, that only applies if the air it's drawing in is hot air around the block. for those running Ram Air and CAI, this doesn't apply to you. for those running stock setups, the cooler block will make the air around it cooler, making the air going into the intake cooler, resulting in denser air, which makes more power due to enriched gasoline mixture. otherwise, with those running Ram Air/CIA setups, the air is drawn directly from the outside, so air inside the engine compartment doesn't affect the air going in the intake. Optimal combustion temp is between 190-210. that's where you'll find the most gain. cooler engine temps only decrease air temps surrounding the block, not the air going through the plenum. so, if you're drawing the surrounding air from around the block, then YES a cooler engine will make a difference. otherwise, no change will result.

Ironxcross

iTrader: (8)

so if you're running a richer mixture, that will reduce your mileage... right? but if you get it tuned for it, wont it sort of cancel out?

so does the 160 stat drop your mileage down?

sdm1234

iTrader: (8)

running a richer mixture will reduce gas mileage, but a 160 t-stat won't cause that. the PCM tells the car how rich to run. the mixture is not correlated with the coolant temp because the 02 sensors define what air/fuel ratio to run at. you can have 32 degree air entering the intake plenum (very dense air!) which, in-turn, calls for more fuel per air ratio. or you can have 120 degree air (not so dense) which will mean less fuel per air. however, the that doesn't mean a different A/F ratio. you'll always be running 14.1:1 or whatever it's set at. coolant temp doesn't change how rich the mixture (unless your definition of a "rich" mixture is having higher surplus of both air AND fuel together... then yes is will make a "richer" mixture but that's not standard definition..)

Formula350

iTrader: (3)

Of course I know the ECM doesn't have anything to do with the TStat. Thermal Mechanics do.
Just because you've done multiple tunes, doesn't mean you understand. I know I sure don't. Just because something in the ECM doesn't directly relate to the operating temperature, doesn't mean it doesn't effect it. As you said yourself, you could run lower timing since it's not as prone to pre-detonation. I would most certainly consider the VE tables to deal with the temp of the engine. Why? Well because the VE table is dealing with how much air the motor and take in and then exhaust. By knowing that it will adjust the air:fuel ratio. Running a cooler TStat lets the incoming air be cooler. Cooler air is more dense, and denser air means more is getting into the engine. So you adjust the VE tables to account for that increased air density. In a carbed motor, you adjust the appropriate screws. If I understood all the tables in the ECM more, I'm sure I could figure out more related things as well.

To clear up any other misunderstandings, I never thought that changing the TStat would hurt a motor in any way. Only the power and/or gas mileage (and by association the emissions).

EDIT: Typo. Also, forgot to add that cooler intake air temp helps exhaust temp too, which means freer flowing exhaust. (Thats why you use exhaust wrap or splurge for the ceramic coated headers.)

infinitebird

iTrader: (11)

The VE tables might apply to yours (93) but they really aren't used on 94+ MAF cars.

And I wasn't claiming to understand everything, however I do maintain that there is nothing of appreciable significance that needs to be changed just because of a different temp thermo. I think if there was that would be well known by now, but the only thing I ever see recommend is the fan temps, which does help but in another way.