Rod Ends....
05-09-2007, 10:11 PM
#1
Rod Ends.... Are they supposed to be this damn noisy? Prior to installing my UMI bits (LCAs non-adjustable and SA PHB with a rod end), the rear of the car didn't make a sound. I torqued the LCAs to the necessary 87ft/lb, and the PHB to the same (or is that too much?)... used proper grease, and that Energy Suspension Pro-Lube Formula whateverthefuckit'scalled. I hear a faint pulsing click from the rear driver side (where the rod end is). Do I just live with this, or did I do something wrong? I have LTs and Duals and I still manage to hear it when I'm just cruising (with any throttle I can't hear **** any how 
). Thanks.
-J
). Thanks.-J
05-10-2007, 12:32 PM
#4
Rod-ends are metal on metal bearings. Those have a small liner in them to help with noise, you should hear cheap ones........
First, if you mounted the rod-ends on the body side, you need to flip them so the bushing is there and the rod-end is @ the axle side instead. Second, you need to make sure the rod-end isn't setup crooked. The body needs to be straight up and down to make sure you have correct articulation. If you have it canted over you'll run out of movement and bind the rod-end.
First, if you mounted the rod-ends on the body side, you need to flip them so the bushing is there and the rod-end is @ the axle side instead. Second, you need to make sure the rod-end isn't setup crooked. The body needs to be straight up and down to make sure you have correct articulation. If you have it canted over you'll run out of movement and bind the rod-end.
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05-10-2007, 01:26 PM
#5
Do yourself a favor and check the inside diameter of the sleeves UMI provides to neck down the rod-end centers to a more bolt-sized diameter. You just need to make sure the bolt is large enough to fill up that diameter...for example, on their LCA sleeves, the stock bolt size is 12mm, but the sleeve inner diameter is 1/2", so there is a lot of play in there. That right there would be enough to cause noise...
But I think what you are hearing is normal...even with the nice teflon-lined QA1 ends, there is some noise. I've found that to be true for both LCAs and panhard rods. It is the nature of the beast. If people aren't hearing the noise, they are either deaf (or on their way to being deaf), or they don't know what to listen for. I can hear mine rattle even over my loud-*** exhaust (but the roads here in Ohio suck).
But I think what you are hearing is normal...even with the nice teflon-lined QA1 ends, there is some noise. I've found that to be true for both LCAs and panhard rods. It is the nature of the beast. If people aren't hearing the noise, they are either deaf (or on their way to being deaf), or they don't know what to listen for. I can hear mine rattle even over my loud-*** exhaust (but the roads here in Ohio suck).
05-10-2007, 01:32 PM
#6
Thanks for the info Sam. I actually just corrected the alignment, it was SLIGHTLY off center, and is now aligned properly.
Steve, that's good to know and I'll have to check out the inner diameter this weekend when I got some free time. I remember before buying this PHB that people complained about the noise of rod ends... this certainly isn't loud, but nobody can hear it except me (maybe because I know what to listen for and drive it every day so the slightest diversion from the norm catches my attention). Now I'm just worried after reading this that I'm gonna destroy my parts
-J
Steve, that's good to know and I'll have to check out the inner diameter this weekend when I got some free time. I remember before buying this PHB that people complained about the noise of rod ends... this certainly isn't loud, but nobody can hear it except me (maybe because I know what to listen for and drive it every day so the slightest diversion from the norm catches my attention). Now I'm just worried after reading this that I'm gonna destroy my parts
-J
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05-11-2007, 06:03 PM
#8
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[QUOTE=MeentSS02]Do yourself a favor and check the inside diameter of the sleeves UMI provides to neck down the rod-end centers to a more bolt-sized diameter. You just need to make sure the bolt is large enough to fill up that diameter...for example, on their LCA sleeves, the stock bolt size is 12mm, but the sleeve inner diameter is 1/2", so there is a lot of play in there. That right there would be enough to cause noise...
i hate when they do that. i hate switching between metric and american wrenches. so i think every one should use meric bolts. i know spohn does. i like
i hate when they do that. i hate switching between metric and american wrenches. so i think every one should use meric bolts. i know spohn does. i like
05-11-2007, 08:01 PM
#9
Originally Posted by Big Bird WS6
i hate when they do that. i hate switching between metric and american wrenches. so i think every one should use meric bolts. i know spohn does. i like
Ryan
05-11-2007, 10:31 PM
#10
You are probably hearing noise from loose tolerances while using a metric bolt in a standard hole as Steve has mentioned. We may lose customers since we don’t claim to use OEM bolts with our setups, but this is the reason why we do not.
Our QA1 XM series rod-ended LCA setups are 199.99 including the bolt kit (offset or standard). We will NOT sell them without our included bolt kit as metric and British units do not mix well.
When you switch to a component that does not dampen noise as your stock rubber bushings provide, if your tolerances aren't tight, you'll pick up noise from the components movement will be found in areas that should not move….Thus why you may be hearing knocking sounds. Tightening them won't help correct tolerance deficiencies.
The ONLY movement that you should see is from the rod end's ball/socket. They will not clunk, rattle, or knock if they are not worn-out. The Teflon liner provides lubrication. The only noises you'll hear is increased road-noise rear-end noise etc...Vibrations travel easier through these components. If you hear any additional knocking sound and the setup is correct as mentioned above, then you’re probably hearing noises through other components that may be worn or loose.
Our QA1 XM series rod-ended LCA setups are 199.99 including the bolt kit (offset or standard). We will NOT sell them without our included bolt kit as metric and British units do not mix well.
When you switch to a component that does not dampen noise as your stock rubber bushings provide, if your tolerances aren't tight, you'll pick up noise from the components movement will be found in areas that should not move….Thus why you may be hearing knocking sounds. Tightening them won't help correct tolerance deficiencies.
The ONLY movement that you should see is from the rod end's ball/socket. They will not clunk, rattle, or knock if they are not worn-out. The Teflon liner provides lubrication. The only noises you'll hear is increased road-noise rear-end noise etc...Vibrations travel easier through these components. If you hear any additional knocking sound and the setup is correct as mentioned above, then you’re probably hearing noises through other components that may be worn or loose.
05-12-2007, 10:11 AM
#12
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I'm confused. So if I buy LCAs from say, UMI, and i buy the bolt kit that they sell with them, will I have clunking? Are the bolts that are supplied w/ the LCAs the right size?
05-12-2007, 10:19 AM
#14
Originally Posted by michaelg589
I'm confused. So if I buy LCAs from say, UMI, and i buy the bolt kit that they sell with them, will I have clunking? Are the bolts that are supplied w/ the LCAs the right size?
05-12-2007, 10:25 AM
#16
That's what I did, but there is still SOME noise. It took a few thousand miles before my rod ends started clunking a little. If you want quiet, rod ends really probably aren't for you. The ride is harsher, and it transmits noise...that is just how it is.
05-12-2007, 10:26 AM
#17
I have SJM Manufacturing rod end LCA's and PHR. Very noisy, but the rear end is definately more planted and stable. I will take the noise in exchange for added stability any time.
05-12-2007, 10:51 AM
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Since SJM doesn't offer a poly/rod LCA, if you wanted to cut down on some noise it would probably be best to get a UMI single adjustable LCA and change to 1/2" bolts.
05-12-2007, 11:08 AM
#19
Rod ended components will transmit noise more period. The noise you hear shouldn't be coming from the component. Noise that is heard is road noise, rear-end noise, other things creaking or knocking on your car that is transmitted into the frame through the solid components.
I can’t believe the posts on which is LCA/PHR is better etc…
I’m not trying to create a war or flame any manufacture. Please do not misunderstand my comments. My point is that the rod-end component properly designed with the correct bolt configuration will not add additional noise if the rod end is not worn. Unfortunately, many manufactures making these components, if they are using a bronze or oil-lite insert bushing, more than likely they are suggesting to use the stock 12mm bolt while the inside diameter of the bushing is ½” substantially larger creating a large amount of play transmitting as additional noise.
An analogy (use your imagination on this one)… your knee joint, when healthy, there is no noise during movement. As you wear the joint, it will make noise during movement which is transmitted and heard. When your rod end wears, it will make noise as well. If neither is worn, there is no noise from the joint (or rod end).
If you start with a rod end that is new and place it on a pivot point that is incorrectly sized, the rod end will inherently make noise from the start, even if the rod end is new. This is due to the fact it is literally floating on the pivot point and moving in multiple directions. You cannot correct this by tightening down the bolt more. Overstretching a bolt creates new problems as well. The joint will STILL move and make noise.
On a side note, rod ends will wear over time…just as tires wear, add gas in the car etc…so this is not a set-it and forget-it component. We do have for our customer’s replacement rod-ends for ~20.00.
If you guys want a very quite setup, stick with the stock bushings. If you want the best performance, a pure rod-ended setup works best. Use the correct bolt for the configuration. If a rod end setup has an internal diameter of ½”, use a ½” bolt. If the manufacture doesn’t supply it, then pick some up elsewhere.
I can’t believe the posts on which is LCA/PHR is better etc…
I’m not trying to create a war or flame any manufacture. Please do not misunderstand my comments. My point is that the rod-end component properly designed with the correct bolt configuration will not add additional noise if the rod end is not worn. Unfortunately, many manufactures making these components, if they are using a bronze or oil-lite insert bushing, more than likely they are suggesting to use the stock 12mm bolt while the inside diameter of the bushing is ½” substantially larger creating a large amount of play transmitting as additional noise.
An analogy (use your imagination on this one)… your knee joint, when healthy, there is no noise during movement. As you wear the joint, it will make noise during movement which is transmitted and heard. When your rod end wears, it will make noise as well. If neither is worn, there is no noise from the joint (or rod end).
If you start with a rod end that is new and place it on a pivot point that is incorrectly sized, the rod end will inherently make noise from the start, even if the rod end is new. This is due to the fact it is literally floating on the pivot point and moving in multiple directions. You cannot correct this by tightening down the bolt more. Overstretching a bolt creates new problems as well. The joint will STILL move and make noise.
On a side note, rod ends will wear over time…just as tires wear, add gas in the car etc…so this is not a set-it and forget-it component. We do have for our customer’s replacement rod-ends for ~20.00.
If you guys want a very quite setup, stick with the stock bushings. If you want the best performance, a pure rod-ended setup works best. Use the correct bolt for the configuration. If a rod end setup has an internal diameter of ½”, use a ½” bolt. If the manufacture doesn’t supply it, then pick some up elsewhere.