tracar91

iTrader: (1)

5/5/07

Well, after the L98 giving up after 237,000 good miles, I started my LS1 swap. I hope to document the step by step in this thread if I don't get too lazy.

1st step, List the scope of the project.

I use the car on nice days, weekends for car shows or autocross, and 3-5 weekends a year for open track days on various road courses. I very occasionally will take it down the drag strip. Within a couple years I'd like to compete in the NASA time trials for Ohio/Indiana and a high speed road race like the Silver State Classic.

In phase 1 I intend on getting the LS1 in the car and running, without alot of extra power improvement stuff. Phase 2 will be the beginning of the modfest.

2nd step, the preparation.

I have a 2000 trans am LS1 with all accessories on the engine stand. I won't be doing any internal stuff just yet, that will be phase 2. So for now, I intend to clean up the engine, and remove all the pollution stuff that isn't required.

The car already has a t-56 from a 97 trans am, but as we all know LT1 T-56's do not work with LS1 motors. So my plan is to remove all the LT1 trans stuff (master/slave, bellhousing, clutch, input shaft, front cover) and converting the trans for use.

I wish to retain AC, which means either:
1) Notching the K member
2) Using the third gen compressor with an adaptor
3) Or getting a tubular K-member.

I don't have the means to easily notch the K-member, and I don't like how the third-gen compressor looks (mounted high) when I can have the compressor hidden low. So I made a call to Thunderracing.com and ordered a Spohn tubular K member with all the extra bracing for street and road race applications. Unfortunately, it looks like a 8 weeks lead time.

The only major power improvement on tap for phase 1 is Hawk's stainless LS1 conversion longtube headers. I debated about this (because of the expense) but I knew I wanted to do them in the future and didn't want to do the exhaust twice. Plus I found a used set online at LS1tech.com for a greatly reduced price.


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5/18/07
Big Day two. Over the last week I have been doing small stuff like pulling plugs and labeling wires, removing small stuff, and trying to organize the garage a little. My plan was to get a couple guys to come over on Friday night and put a big dent into the deconstruction phase of the project. I already had buyers for several of the old engine components, so they needed to be removed for delivery.

About 7:00 PM Friday, Speagle pulls in the driveway with Hodge and Mike M in the car. (Thanks guys!)
Heres how it looked when they arrived:
http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5498658

We proceed to the unbolting:

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5498670
http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5498669

and by 11:00pm both the motor and trans are sitting on the floor beside the now much lighter car.

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5498672 I think we left a loose nut under the car!
http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5498674
http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5498675 Man, the engine didn't look this dirty when it was in the car!
http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5498691 You think maybe I can beat my old best time of 14.011 @ 98 mph?

Sunday I got a chance to clean up the tools and straighten up the garage so here is where the swap is now:

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5498683

Next step is to strip out everything under the hood and prep it for a coat of the same paint as the rest of the car:

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5498689 Boy, I have a lot of cleaning to do!

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (17)

James,
Looks like you got a good start going there. The best part during my swap was being at the point you are at now. Being able to clean all the old wiring out and eliminate everything I didnt need. It was so nice to look in there and see hardly any rat nest.

And I know what you mean about the motor looking better when it was in the car. haha. I actually dropped my selling price of my motor once it was out because of how filthy it was.

Only tech tidbit I have to offer you is on the A/C. Its really not hard to notch the k-member. If you had the k-member out of the car, its even easier. You could just cut the notch, then take it to a shop and have it welded. Shouldnt cost much.

But you should be happy with the new tubular k-member.

The other thing is, with those hawks headers...did you get his y-pipe with those? Or are you planning on building your own??

Looks good so far! Definetly keep us updated! I can tell by the way you are talking your way through the progress that its going to be a good read!

Justin

P.S. If you run into any issues there are some good people around that have done the exact swap and we can help you for sure...so just ask!

a10beav

Good luck getting the Spohn piece in 8 weeks; I was told 2 months and I cancelled after 3, they (Spohn) kept making excuses. I switched to BMR and had the K-member in less than a week. If you're not in a hurry, then I'm sure it will be a great K-member. But the high compressors aren't that bad, I used Street & Performance mounting kit.

fast377

iTrader: (52)

Looking good! Looks like you will have yours done before me . I also went with the BMR k-member...nice piece! The spohn is too...but that's a long wait.

NemeSS

iTrader: (127)

i have the PA Racing kmember, and it has the shock perches also
also it came in price lwer than the bmr, but its the mild steel version.

StevenK

I have the Hawks one before Spohn took over, and its a piece of crap.

From what I hear, the Spohn version has the same problem mine has in regards to the draglink/tierod ends hitting the center brace.

EVERETTDREW

iTrader: (2)

I want to do this exact swap in mt ta, hopefully one day ill get around to doing it. Good luck!

tracar91

iTrader: (1)

I work for a OEM exhaust manufacturer, so I plan on fabbing everything from the headers back. (It's nice working for a place that makes 3" mandrel bent 409 SS every day!)

I debated about the K-member, and the research I did suggested that for daily drivers and road course cars the Spohn unit was the strongest piece. Everything else seems to be targeted towards limited use drag cars. I'll use the backlog as an excuse to clean more than I would if I was rushing to get the car done by a deadline.

BTW, thanks for all the interest!

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (17)

Man...jealous of the access to the mandrel bends! I was stuck with ordering magnaflow bends because I wanted stainless and they are cheap.

I do have some advice for you though. Since you are fabbing your own y-pipe, it might not be a big deal to ya. But if you are using the spohn transmission crossmember, it is kind of a pain to navigate around. Its a great piece, just doesnt leave much room for a y-pipe.

Me, along with a few others, started to build our own with "humps" to clear the pipes. One guy got his to clear a 3" y-pipe. There is a guy over on thirdgen.org that sells them. I got one, but didnt use it because it wasnt heavy enough for me, and there was no provision for the spohn torque arm.
Which is why I built my own.

Just something to think about. If you have some fabbing skills, it might be worth a shot. Search around...if you cant find info on what Im talking about, Ill shoot you some threads and some pictures of mine.

This area of the swap has DEFINETLY been the most challenging. i bought the hawks headers and y-pipe with the idea that it was going to all bolt up and work. Well...it didnt. I had to chop up the y-pipe, and even then it hung so low, and had so many bends it was just silly. Now my y-pipe will be almost straight and wont be the lowest part under the car anymore.


Justin

tracar91

iTrader: (1)

You are probably talking about Andris Skulte, of Skulte Performance Design. He's a buddy of mine from an event we goto each year (www.fbody-event.org) and I have a new crossmember coming from him as we speak. I had a Spohn crossmember but sold it to avoid the clearance issue. My current plan is to build just past the crossmember, go into a X crossover, then go into bullets dumping in front of the axles to start. I'm also looking at what changes I can make to the rear suspension to 1) get over-the axle duals and 2) fit 335 rear tires. It means I'll probably have to ditch the entire rear suspension and start over.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (17)

Not thinkin of Andris... Although he is a great guy and Ive gotten other stuff from him. Guys screen name is "drews" over on TGO.

As for your plan, it sounds awesome! Ive seen true duals come back to an "X", then run side by side, over the axle, then off to their separate bullets. Kind of like the GTO dual exhaust when they first came out.

BMR makes a panhard bar brace drop kit, that moves that brace that goes from the chassis to the panhard bar mount down some, and also lowers the panhard bar more to make it closer to horizontal. That goes a TON more room for over the axle stuff. But Im sure you've probably seen it since it sounds like you have your stuff together.

As for fitting the 335's...thats gonna be fun. Another guy over on TGO did fender widening to the back of his camaro to fit 335s. Looks GREAT...but man it was a ton of work. Hope he doesnt mind but Ill post a pic of it to show ya...looks great with those meats in the back. Im gonna link them so i dont clutter your thread..if you havent seen his build thread over on TGO, and want to see it, Ill send ya the link.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...C/DSCN0169.jpg

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...C/DSCN0171.jpg

Justin

a10beav

I used Drews crossmember with the intent to attach Spohns torque arm, but it would have taken a lot of work. I now have BMRs Xtreme kit. It's solid but I think it's made for drag racing; the cross brace dips below the exhaust and hangs very low. It's been a clearance problem several times. I'm trying to find another way to mount a torque arm.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (17)

Yeah...honestly, drews xmember didnt even fit. I would have had to egg the mount holes out big time. Probably my car is tweak or something... Also, the stength bothered me. So I made mine from 1x3 tubing. Then Steve Spohn sold me the parts needed to hook the torque arm to it, and I welded that up too.

But he has something coming from Skulte...which Im curious to see. So when you get it post some pics up! Just a quick pic of what i made...ignore the rust...

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...r/S6000810.jpg

Hey tracar91, what are you doing for a rear? Beefing the stocker or going aftermarket??

Justin

a10beav

Good job on that torque arm, I think the Skulte looks pretty similar to it. We thought about boxing in Drews piece, but the guys at the shop thought it would be strong enough.

Sorry for hijacking your thread tracar91, but it sounds like you've got a good set-up in mind!

tracar91

iTrader: (1)

Thanks Justin, I have seen the panhard bar mod from BMR and I think it might give me enough room for what I want. I have cruzed all the fit X tire under there threads and that's why I was looking at probably changing the whole rear suspension, since I have to take out the coil spring pocket in order to mini-tub the back. I haven't gotten too far with my planning on that, it just seems that one project always spills over into another (motor-->exhaust-->rear end-->mini-tub) Ahhhh, you gotta love project creep!

tracar91

iTrader: (1)

Here is the link to Skulte's crossmember
http://www.skulte.com/product_info.p...products_id/83

I will probably use the stock rear until it goes BOOM!, then change to either a 9" or a 12 bolt. I've also seen some really interesting pictures of a C4 rear mounted under a 4th gen firebird.

http://www.fbodymotorsports.com/jay_s_94_formula

But I haven't seen any follow up information.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (17)

Yeah Ive seen the pics of Skulte's x-member ont heir site, but the pic isnt so great, and I cant tell how they have that thing situated. I figured once you got it and snapped some pictures it would clear things up.

Man...other than going with a totally custom 4-link set up or something in the rear, I dont know what else you could do to make room. Those darn controls arms...

You can go coil over, and maybe figure out a way to make angled control arms. A certain year of jeep grand cherokee has bent lower control arms. so the middle will be towards the inside the car... Im definetly going to keep track of you to see where you go with this...

Justin

a10beav

How do you plan to do a mini-tub? To keep those wheels from sticking out too far you'd have to cut and move the frame rails in. I'm sure it's been done, but I'm not sure I'd use it as a street car after that.

bygblok

iTrader: (4)

nothing really attaches to the rear rails on a 3rd gen that can't be moved inside to accomodate the mini-tubs. As long as it has a rear section to a cage in it you can notch the rails and still compete in most real or limited street classes that require at least part of the rail be in the factory location and still have the car not fold up on you. The biggest problem you're going to have will be moving the lca's inboard. This would be the perfect time for a set of southside bars if you could find a set. You could fab up a relocated set of control arms to be like ladder bars then. I know of at least one guy at our local track that has a custom made set of ladder bars that bolt into the stock lca mounts too. No torque arm issues for him but the bars are VERY short. The car works though
He broke a couple of 7.625's and an 8.8 until he finally went with a 9". Small tire car too but it dead-hooks like all hell!!

tracar91

iTrader: (1)

I have collected all the parts I need, so I started working on the car again. My dad and my Cousin showed up at 9:30 this morning and we are done as I'm writing this. Finished disassembly, pulled it out in the driveway to powerwash and prep the surfaces. Pulled it back in, taped it up and away we sprayed. I guess the pictures will explain better than me typing.