Adrenaline_SS

iTrader: (4)

People who have used this weight oil, how do you like it?

I have GC in my car now and it still sounds like a sewing machine, esp at idle or when coming to an idle. It about time to change the oil and I was thinking of trying the M1 5-40 syn oil for desiels being as M1 tends to run a little on the thin side. From my understanding, its prob just a little thicker than the GC but its also a lot cheaper (a la Walmart) and is easier to find. So.... Anyone who has used this oil please give some feed back... Anyone do an oil analysis on this stuff?
Thanks

myk

iTrader: (4)

I dunno' about the M1, especially if you're trying to escape the sewing machine sound. I'm running M1 and I still have the sewing machine at least until the motor warms up...

coolformula

iTrader: (21)

Most people have good luck with the M1 5-40W and the 10-40W. I think people are picky, some have more valetrain noise than others, but they all seem to go over 150K miles. Maybe you justneed louder exhaust.

Mr Incredible

I've used the old M1 TrSUV. It's the same as the new version, just a different name. I got a good oil analysis from it. But I'm on the path for a good UOA from a thinner, non-GC oil. We'll see what my current fill looks like in another 1200 miles.

The sewing machine sound doesn't appear to be unusual for LS1s, nor harmful. GC is an outstanding oil, but is difficult to find for many. There are any number of oils that will work, M1 5w or 10w-30 coming to mind.

I think the "too thin" bandwagon has reached a point of becoming comical. 5w and 10w-30 is called for by the manufacturer, and there are a dozen oils that range from thin to thick within the 30w range. You could use any of 30 of the below listed oils and your motor would not show a death-rattle UOA. All the opinions around here seem to be based on slick marketing, "it hasn't died yet", and "it's the most expensive so it must be good." Hardly anyone has done a used oil analysis and actually seen what is going on inside their engine.

And with as little true oil knowledge as is displayed by the average driver, I wouldn't take anything said as gospel. Look it up and learn for yourself.

Adrenaline_SS

iTrader: (4)

Mr. Incredible, thats a great list. I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to oil and viscosity terminology. What does cSt stand for, and what is it a value of? What is the ideal cSt range for LS1s?

Mr Incredible

cSt = centistoke (A unit of kinematic viscosity.)

Motor oil viscosity is measured at serveral temperatures that are relevant to their intended uses. The measurements are made in centistokes.

40*C is 104*F. 100*C is 212*F. Extreme low temperature viscosities are measured at various degrees per manufacturers desires and are approximately -30* to -60*. These temperatures are important to us users because they represent extreme cold in winter, approximately summer temps, and actual operating temperature.

I'm not real sure what the ideal viscosity point is for the LS1. The factory says use 10w-30 for temps above 0*F, and 5w-30 for temps below it. But, as you can see from the list above (which I got from BOBISTHEOILGUY.Com), 0w, 5w, and 10w-30 ranges far and wide! Add the 0w and 5w 40w's and you can see that the LS1 (and by inferrance most any motor) can use a wide range of oil weights and still stand tall.

Many hundreds of people have posted great results from German Castrol (GC), but I couldn't tell you whether that's because of the viscosity of the oil or the fact that it's such a well put together (pure and true) synthetic oil. I think more the latter.

I got results square in the GC range from M1 TrSUV oil. I didn't like the sluggish feel I got from my car while using it. That's some mighty thick stuff...like using straight 30w! Still, the LS1 had enough power to overcome it.

GC is thick for a 30w, but there are thicker. M1 30w has been badmouthed as being thin. As we can see, it's thicker than GC at startup. It's not even a point less viscous at operating temps. And, it's thicker at operating temp than Redline, which is often spoken highly of here.

I'm going thin in my LS1. I'm not one of the "thicker is better" crowd. Decreased viscosity means increased flow. My current fill is Havoline Deposit Shield in a 5w-30. I've got about 800 miles on it now and it isn't making any more noise than it was with 5w-30, 10w-30, or 5w-40. Oil pressure at warm idle is 30. Piston slap is present, but no more or less than it was...maybe even a little less 'cause I have to listed hard to hear it sometimes.

Of course, I won't know if I'm pissin' in the wind or not until I get a UOA done on it at about 2000 miles. I have to dump it anyway at that time since it's an Auto-RX rinse fill.

TXZ28LS1

iTrader: (5)

im running castrol syntec 5w-40. i love this stuff. no oil consumption or anything at all. very happy with it.

ChocoTaco369

this freaking oil. don't even get me started.

okay, so i'm a big fan of GC. yes, my engine ticked with it. LS1's just plain tick. let's just GET OVER THAT. LS1's run to 150,000 miles ticking the whole way. it's the design. want to get rid of ticking? put some gear oil in there. the ticking will be gone and the engine will blow up. the ticking isn't a big issue. it's just a noise.

anyways, a few months ago, i decided to not by GC and try mobil 1 5W-40. well, i put that in. first thing i noticed: slightly higher oil psi at start-up. obviously, the 5W will have higher pressure initially than a 0W. however, once the car heated up, i lost about 2-5 psi of pressure - and i went UP in weight.

as for the ticking, my tick is either exactly the same or slightly louder than with GC. it definitely didn't go down at all. fuel economy is relatively unchanged.

now, this is what pisses me off. i've had this oil in for about 4,100 miles. my LOW OIL light came on yesterday when i was casually idling. apparently, i'm burning this quite a bit faster than my GC. i ran my GC for over 4,500 and i NEVER got a low oil light. that GC surely could have gone longer, too. so i had to top off with my remaining half a quart today. i figure i'll run it for 900 more miles to hit the 5k mark and get it out of my engine.

now, here's what pisses me off:

i had 1 quart of GC left. i drove to autozone today - a 25 mile hike - to get some more GC. they had FOUR QUARTS LEFT and none in the back i have no idea if they're going to get more in...so i was forced to buy MORE MOBIL 1 5W-40 all i needed was ONE MORE QUART OF GC. ugh...i'm so frustrated.

so i guess i'll be running this stuff for another 5k miles...

so why did i buy more mobil 1 5W-40? because it's the best crap mobil 1 makes. every other oil is a significant step down, so if i can't get GC, i'm stuck with this.

and GC is up to $6.19 a quart! i was paying $5.49/quart last summer no one sells motor oil online, either. you'd think you'd be able to find it discounted for $5 bucks a quart somewhere, but no...

this post was not written in anger. it was written in frustration

Adrenaline_SS

iTrader: (4)

[QUOTE=ChocoTaco369
no one sells motor oil online, either.
[/QUOTE]

Actually yes.... WS6 Store sell GC 0-30 for 39.99/ case

FWIW... I'm not really complaining about the GC...(I have 10 quarts stashed away; most of which I bought when Autozone had it on sale- ~4.75/quart). Everything I've read on here and on Bob is the Oil Guy says that its a really good oil, BUT there are alot of people who swear by M1. I just was curious to get some feedback from people who have actually used the 5-40 diesel oil. Thanks for the input.

ChocoTaco369

i'm aware that GC is sold on WS6store (i got PM'd right when they started offering it ). i see no reason to pay $40 for a case plus shipping when you can get it at autozone for $38 after tax...

the people that swear by mobil 1 are old timers from when mobil 1 used to be a really good oil - before exxon bought it and changed it (for the worse). my car has proven that even though the 5W-40 is thicker, it'll make the same or more engine noise while consuming more oil and losing oil pressure...and that's the best mobil 1 out there.

Mr Incredible

I don't think there is a "Best" oil. The most accurate thing we can say is that a particular oil may be "Best at our application."

My LS1 didn't have any consumption using M1 TrSuv, and it gave very good results in the UOA. It's good for many applications, but it may not be the best for all.

GC may not be the best for all, but it works well in the LSx family. It's an outstandingly well-engineered oil. But it is far from the best in all applications.

M1 still makes good oil. Sure, they aren't what the used to be. But, what is? The only constant in the universe is that everything changes.

By the way, Choco, have you looked at the oil viscosity chart yet? The reason I asked is you said, "obviously, the 5W will have higher pressure initially than a 0W." But if you look closely at the chart you will see several 0w oils that have a higher startup viscosity than many of the 5w oils. Perhaps it isn't quite as obvious as you suspect and there's more to oils than can be generalized.

ChocoTaco369

when you're comparing a 40 weight oil to a 30 weight oil, the 40 weight should always be thicker. yes, some 30 weights are thicker than others and some 40 weights are thicker than others, but a 40 weight should ALWAYS be thicker than a 30 weight at operating temps in order to classify as a 40 weight. you would think that a thicker oil would always lead to higher oil pressure. think again. obviously, the mobil 1 shears down faster than the castrol.

brad8266

iTrader: (23)

Anyway just throw some supertech synthetic in there, its the same **** as the other expensive synthetics pretty much. Why waste your $$ for the same ****?

Mr Incredible

If discussing operating temps, you would be correct. But you were discussing startup, not operating temps. That's what I was asking you about, not operating temps. I'm surprised you missed that...

ChocoTaco369

yes, i did miss that. there is a tad more oil pressure at startup with the mobil 1. however, that doesn't concern me at all. i would never run more than a 5W at startup. the engine spends so little time there, it doesn't matter. i care about how my oil performs when the engine is hot. from the readings my gauges are giving me, GC is the superior oil. i really don't feel like paying $30 for the UOA...

Mr Incredible

Choco, is a high oil pressure at temp your only criteria for what makes an oil good? If so, there are many oils than GC that will provide it. Perhaps the Quacker State Q Advanced in a 5w-50? That'll give you some oil pressure, Boy Howdy...

There won't be much flow, but MAN what pressure.

brad8266

iTrader: (23)

But on LS1 tech oil flow and lubrication means nothing, its all about how high you oil pressure is. You didnt know that more oil psi = more HP???

ChocoTaco369

did you not even read my posts? i gave several reasons, oil pressure only being one of them. my oil pressure was closer to ideal with GC. at NO POINT has by oil pressure ever been "high", and i don't ever want it to be "high".

mobil 1 has been inferior in MANY accounts, and i listed some of them.

high oil pressure is not the criteria for good oil, but how much your burn is. when you burn half a quart to a quart more mobil 1 than you did GC, that makes it pretty clear your engine prefers GC. my oil pressure at idle was 45 with GC. with mobil 1, it sometimes drops below 40. my oil pressure with mobil 1 is 55 crusing. it was 60 with GC.

i haven't had any change in fuel economy, so that means the flow of the oil is about the same. if one didn't flow as well as the other, it would be noticible in fuel economy if the difference was very large. obviously, whatever difference there is, it wasn't very much at all.

GC should also flow better as it's a little thinner.

mobil 1 loses in all accounts thus far. it may be a "good" oil, but it's still far inferior to GC.

Mr Incredible

Sure I read your post(s). Your entire criteria for oil has been lack of consumption, and "ideal pressures" as manifested in how your engine reacts to that particular oil. Which begs this question, GC/M1TrSuv notwithstanding, Would you give up a lower wearing oil for a lower consuming oil, assuming .5 to 1 qt consumption over 5k miles? This question, Define the ideal oil pressure for your car at idle and at op-temp. And this question, Do you believe you can tell how your engine is wearing with any particular oil fill by how it "feels" while you drive it?


You believe it to be consumption prone and not shear stable. That's two. What are the other of the many problems with M1 TrSUV...that you've gathered from <5k miles of use without an analysis. Notwithstanding, of course, the mere difference of a few psi to GC psi's.


I agree, high oil pressure is not important. Neither, however, do I consider up to 1 qt consumption over 5k miles to be a killer. It's just icing on the cake if your good performing oil doesn't consume.

I don't know that I'd go so far as to say a motor would "prefer" an oil because it doesn't consume it. Perhaps you could be getting some pretty screwy wear numbers (on any other oil but GC) on an oil that stays put. How would you ever know without an analysis?

The oil I'm using now gives a warm idle of 30psi, and maybe 45-ish psi at 2k rpm. I'm comfortable with those numbers. What do you think?

The visosity for GC at op-temp is 12.1, and for TrSUV it'ss 14.8. I've tried TrSuv in my V10 Ford truck, and I'm now using Motorcraft 5w-20. The difference in the way the engine feels between the two is like dancing with Grandma (TrSuv) and dancing with Paula Abdul (when she's not drunk). Night and day. But the fuel economy is hardly different. There are so many variables to consider as to not make it an issue worth considering. And with the two oils in question, too close to call.


For the LS1 in my car, wear numbers from TrSuv gave GC-quality wear numbers, and it did it with minimal consumption. It's likely cheaper, and it's easier to get. I can't see a problem with it. I think the M1 0w-40 would be a good one try, too.

ChocoTaco369

it goes like this:

i know the GC will likely post better wear numbers. why? because the mobil 1 isn't providing as good oil pressure, it's providing less protection on startup because of the 5W number (which is where a lot of engine wear takes place - startup, since the oil isn't readily available) and i'm consuming more oil, which means at any giving second, there is less oil available inside the engine to help lubricate things.

see above reasoning.

it's just the fact that since it's being consumed faster than GC, that means at any given moment, there is comparatively less oil in my motor protecting things.

personally, i think it's too low. i like the engine to be at about 40 psi at idle when fully warmed up and 55-60 psi when cruising. while high oil pressure is not the most important thing about an oil, generally, a few more psi is better than a few less psi. 30 psi at idle is a little on the low end, and i'd feel uneasy with that. remember, if you're sitting in traffic and the car gets very hot, it's going to further thin out and you'll be in the 20's at idle. that's way too low IMO.


[QUOTE=Mr Incredible]The visosity for GC at op-temp is 12.1, and for TrSUV it'ss 14.8. I've tried TrSuv in my V10 Ford truck, and I'm now using Motorcraft 5w-20. The difference in the way the engine feels between the two is like dancing with Grandma (TrSuv) and dancing with Paula Abdul (when she's not drunk). Night and day. But the fuel economy is hardly different. There are so many variables to consider as to not make it an issue worth considering. And with the two oils in question, too close to call/[quote]
yes, a thicker oil will lead to a more sluggish engine and less fuel economy, but IMO, a little slower revving is worth it for a little better protection. you can't rev an engine if it's broken.

i don't want mobil 1 0W-40. i'm very against any of mobil 1's mainstream oil. if i'm going to buy mobil 1, it's going to be the harder-to-get 5W-40 (this batch i bought yesterday is truck and SUV, the batch before was turbodiesel).

to answer your question, if for some reason i got a UOA that showed the mobil 1's numbers were slightly better than the GC, i'd still rather run the GC due to the less consumption and more oil pressure. it all depends how close the wear numbers are. if they're equal, i'd pick the GC. i'll tell you what though, a quart of GC is almost twice as heavy as a quart of mobil 1. it's incredible how heavy of an oil GC is. seriously, weigh the two. i was holding 4 quarts at the store looking for a 5th and i was practically dropping them. i put them down and grabbed 6 quarts of mobil 1 and it was easier to carry no wonder it gets consumed faster.