View Full Version : nitrous pull....


NVR KNO
06-03-2007, 08:03 PM
just got the car dynoed today with the nitrous kit. tell me what you guys think. here are my cars mods....
99 SS M6
42lb injectors
lid
longtubes
dual cutouts
stock catback
12bolt
3.73 gears
NOS dry kit

here are my numbers.
337/348 cutouts closed N/A
344/356 cutouts open N/A
408/444 cutouts closed 100 shot
434/476 cutouts open 100 shot
435/490 cutouts open 150 shot

it just finished raining and the temp was 94 in the shop. the humidity was over 85% too. my AFR was reading under 12 to 1. she has been running rich as shit lately and i know i need new O2s too. all runs were with stock spark plugs also. bottle pressure was right at 900psi. does this seem right? i know NOS rates to the flywheel but i think i should have made alil more power, especially torque. let me know what you guys think.

daniel6718
06-03-2007, 08:29 PM
wot shouldent be affected by o2's...the 150 shot didnt gain much? did it go way rich? if not then somethings wrong, i definately wouldent be using it for that little gain

bad6as
06-03-2007, 08:41 PM
swap out thoes plugs with tr-6

NVR KNO
06-03-2007, 09:08 PM
wot shouldent be affected by o2's...the 150 shot didnt gain much? did it go way rich? if not then somethings wrong, i definately wouldent be using it for that little gain

the 150shot didnt gain much from the 100shot. i cant read my AFR when the cutouts are open, i can only read it when the cutouts are closed.

NVR KNO
06-04-2007, 09:08 AM
can spark plugs make that big of a difference?

bad6as
06-04-2007, 11:03 AM
they are 1 heat range colder and with the 150 shot it could melt the plugs and blow the motor swap out to tr-6s asap

BADSZ28
06-04-2007, 11:16 AM
What jets? NOS dry is rated at the crank.

NVR KNO
06-04-2007, 11:20 AM
i know NOS rates to the flywheel...

i dont remember the jets he said. what sizes do they have?

BADSZ28
06-04-2007, 11:25 AM
Just for referrence, I made 110rwhp and over 200rwtq from missplaced nozzles with .040 jets. Also a little lean. But I have a cam. I think your torque will not gain soo much due to the stock cam. I think the cam allows more mix in, increasing cylinder pressures even further, creating more torque.

NVR KNO
06-04-2007, 11:55 AM
im not expecting a huge gain from this kit. i know its rated at the flywheel too. my concern is i gain a good amount from the 100shot. when i jetted it for the 150shot, i gained 1hp and 14tq. like i said earlier, AFR was under 12 to 1 so i was no where near lean. its a dual nozzle setup so nozzles were placed on either side of the lid. if i can remember he said .36 jets for the 150 shot.... does that sound right?

P.S. i also know i have a 12bolt and 3.73 gears so that will eat up some.... they ate up 20hp just on motor only.

BADSZ28
06-04-2007, 12:04 PM
im not expecting a huge gain from this kit. i know its rated at the flywheel too. my concern is i gain a good amount from the 100shot. when i jetted it for the 150shot, i gained 1hp and 14tq. like i said earlier, AFR was under 12 to 1 so i was no where near lean. its a dual nozzle setup so nozzles were placed on either side of the lid. if i can remember he said .36 jets for the 150 shot.... does that sound right?

P.S. i also know i have a 12bolt and 3.73 gears so that will eat up some.... they ate up 20hp just on motor only.

I thought the 0.040s were 150 and learned they are more like 135. The 36s are more like 120. What pressure were all runs on? You may have had less pressure on the "150" pull from the "100" pull. Pressure makes a big difference. I made 90rwhp from a 85 crank hit at 1200psi.

NVR KNO
06-04-2007, 12:15 PM
pressure was right at 900psi. what size jet do i need to make it a true 150 shot? i looked in the Master Jet thread, but didnt see it.

p.s. he said the .26s were for the 100 shot.

BADSZ28
06-04-2007, 12:23 PM
Nope. 28s are for 85. I have a request into Robert56 in sizing jets for dry kits. He has lots of experience and already has lots of data. My guess is for a true 150rwhp hit you would need like a .050 jet or more. Also, I would run 950psi.

NVR KNO
06-04-2007, 12:50 PM
do you know what could have gone wrong in my practically no gain from the "so called" 100shot to 150shot?

edcmat-l1
06-04-2007, 02:14 PM
they are 1 heat range colder and with the 150 shot it could melt the plugs and blow the motor swap out to tr-6s asap
The heat range wont necessarily make the plugs melt or not. Heat range is how hot the tip of the plug runs at. It doesnt effect how hot the charge burns. Hotter plugs are better for burning off deposits, but the down side is they run hotter (the plug tip) which can promote detonation.
Plugs being burned out in nitrous motors is usually due to a severely lean condition that probably wouldnt be helped even with a colder plug.
All that being said, back to the OP questions. Nitrous is pressure dependent. Drops in pressure means drops in power. Too rich? Add more N2O. Increase the pressure, or increase the jet size. Are you logging while you're sprayin on the dyno? Is it pulling timing? That would cost you a few HP, not a bunch but some.
Did you adjust the ifr in the tune? If not that would be a good reason for it to run rich. I'd get a bung in the header so you can see the a/f with the dump open. Or use a longer tube on the WB on the dyno, to get up in there farther.
Regardless, this is all stuff they should know over there.....

BADSZ28
06-04-2007, 03:05 PM
Do you know what timing was set at? Could have seen some KR. That will hurt power.

If you are rich, increasing pressure or jet sizes will not help in a dry kit. The MAF is reading the amount of N2O and adding fuel. Actually, you want to be rich. The bigger the shot, the more rich you want to be really to be safe. Your 12.0:1 is perfect for 100-125rwhp. After that, I would get closer to 11.5:1. You really need a TR6 or colder for ANY N2O. This will also cause KR and other bad stuff to happen. Nozzle placement is also a factor.

NVR KNO
06-04-2007, 03:17 PM
timing is stock.... i think. it was tuned so long ago i can t remember. edcmat-l1 tuned it for me the first time, maybe he can remember. i have the TR6 plugs ordered and will be put in before the next nitrous pull.

and ed, yes the ifr was changed to handle the 42lb injectors before it went on the dyno. also remember when you tuned it for me, we couldnt use the wideband because of the dual cutouts. you had to tune it thru the stock catback with the cutouts closed.... so no i couldnt log and afr during the runs.

edcmat-l1
06-04-2007, 04:03 PM
Do you know what timing was set at? Could have seen some KR. That will hurt power.

If you are rich, increasing pressure or jet sizes will not help in a dry kit. The MAF is reading the amount of N2O and adding fuel. Actually, you want to be rich. The bigger the shot, the more rich you want to be really to be safe. Your 12.0:1 is perfect for 100-125rwhp. After that, I would get closer to 11.5:1. You really need a TR6 or colder for ANY N2O. This will also cause KR and other bad stuff to happen. Nozzle placement is also a factor.
HUH???? you sprayin ahead of your MAF? Whenever you add or subtract nitrous, whether its with a jet change or increasing/decreasing pressure, it will lean or richen the mix.
I do agree with the colder plug for N2O, but the way it was referenced earlier just didnt make sense. Alot of people dont understand spark plug heat range.

edcmat-l1
06-04-2007, 04:05 PM
timing is stock.... i think. it was tuned so long ago i can t remember. edcmat-l1 tuned it for me the first time, maybe he can remember. i have the TR6 plugs ordered and will be put in before the next nitrous pull.

and ed, yes the ifr was changed to handle the 42lb injectors before it went on the dyno. also remember when you tuned it for me, we couldnt use the wideband because of the dual cutouts. you had to tune it thru the stock catback with the cutouts closed.... so no i couldnt log and afr during the runs.

Thats why I said put a bung in it or us a longer pick up tube. Get it up further into the exhaust.

NVR KNO
06-04-2007, 04:06 PM
i am spraying before my MAF, i have the nozzles on both sides of the air lid pointing towards the maf.

gtobizman
06-04-2007, 04:24 PM
1 hp gain from 100 to 150 looks like fuel starvation. Your MAF can only compensate so much.

edcmat-l1
06-04-2007, 05:07 PM
i am spraying before my MAF, i have the nozzles on both sides of the air lid pointing towards the maf.
OK. just looked at the directions and thats where it should be. Learn somethin new everyday. Never put one in that sprayed across the maf.

NVR KNO
06-04-2007, 06:39 PM
where is the best place for the nozzles?

NVR KNO
06-04-2007, 06:41 PM
what is the best place for the nozzles?

NVR KNO
06-05-2007, 08:11 AM
is there a better place to position the nozzles?

newtoLS1s
06-05-2007, 08:16 AM
try taking nitrous pressure to 1000PSI and check the A/Fs

NVR KNO
06-05-2007, 09:45 AM
1 hp gain from 100 to 150 looks like fuel starvation. Your MAF can only compensate so much.

fuel should be fine.... just put 42lb injectors in and i have a FPSS so if the pump couldnt handle it, wouldnt the switch shut it off? there was no missing in the upper rpms either.

BADSZ28
06-05-2007, 10:16 AM
HUH???? you sprayin ahead of your MAF? Whenever you add or subtract nitrous, whether its with a jet change or increasing/decreasing pressure, it will lean or richen the mix.
I do agree with the colder plug for N2O, but the way it was referenced earlier just didnt make sense. Alot of people dont understand spark plug heat range.

Yes, in a wet system you are correct, but with a dry shot across the MAF, the MAF will read more air (cooler temps) and add fuel when adding nitrous and visa versa. Also, if the jets are pointed directly at the MAF wires it will read more rich. I have never heard anyone run dry after the MAF. Well except PatrickG, but he has a special SD tune that adds fuel and the bowling balls to do it.

Fuel system limitations were never a concern based on the data LastLT1 gave. So I still think it is timing and plugs. The bigger the shot, the less timing you want and the colder the plug you need to run. If the car is tuned for NA, most likely needs to have some timing pulled.

BADSZ28
06-05-2007, 10:19 AM
For now, stay off the button till you get plugs. My tuner would not touch my car till I changed my plugs had at least 42s and upgraded the pump. You are SI so pump should be fine. All else is fine sounds like.

Keep the nozzles in the kit specified location. Seams to work well there.

Noyzee
06-05-2007, 10:30 AM
well, here is my input.
put tr-6 in there right away.

run 1100-1200 psi on the pressure (that ket needs pressure)

be very carefull with af on the dyno, you want it around 11.5- 12.1 on the dyno, that on a real pass will be close to perfect.
the jetting is not correct either, the 34 jet i believe is 125 at the motor so a 40 would be about40 more crank HP
timming will also effect HP.
pressure from 900 to 1100 will pick up about 25 hp if the tune is correct.
good luck

NVR KNO
06-05-2007, 10:56 AM
thanx guys. ill be at the shop on thursday so ill let you know then how it pans out.

edcmat-l1
06-05-2007, 03:25 PM
Keep the nozzles in the kit specified location. Seams to work well there.
Definitely.....

edcmat-l1
06-05-2007, 03:28 PM
Yes, in a wet system you are correct, but with a dry shot across the MAF, the MAF will read more air (cooler temps) and add fuel when adding nitrous and visa versa. Also, if the jets are pointed directly at the MAF wires it will read more rich. I have never heard anyone run dry after the MAF. Well except PatrickG, but he has a special SD tune that adds fuel and the bowling balls to do it.

Fuel system limitations were never a concern based on the data LastLT1 gave. So I still think it is timing and plugs. The bigger the shot, the less timing you want and the colder the plug you need to run. If the car is tuned for NA, most likely needs to have some timing pulled.
Yeah I agree. Its probably a timing issue. I would pull 3 degrees out right off the bat. Not across the board but where the nitrous is activated. And I agree on the plugs also, although that has nothing to do with the amount of power it makes.
PS Get the bottle pressure up too. Pressure = power.....

edcmat-l1
06-05-2007, 03:32 PM
Did anybody else have any problems with the site late yesterday? I posted a few times but when I looked they were never there. Very strange. Dang computer gadget thingys :eek2:

NVR KNO
06-05-2007, 03:48 PM
well, here is my input.
put tr-6 in there right away.

run 1100-1200 psi on the pressure (that ket needs pressure)

be very carefull with af on the dyno, you want it around 11.5- 12.1 on the dyno, that on a real pass will be close to perfect.
the jetting is not correct either, the 34 jet i believe is 125 at the motor so a 40 would be about40 more crank HP
timming will also effect HP.
pressure from 900 to 1100 will pick up about 25 hp if the tune is correct.
good luck

yea but isnt the limit on the 15lb bottle only like 1300psi?

NVR KNO
06-05-2007, 03:49 PM
Did anybody else have any problems with the site late yesterday? I posted a few times but when I looked they were never there. Very strange. Dang computer gadget thingys :eek2:

the database was messed up yesterday. i pmd Noyzee and that what he told me. that why you and me have 5 posts saying the same thing.

BADSZ28
06-05-2007, 04:17 PM
Plugs have to do with being safe, not power when talking power adder.

The kit is rated at 950psi. No sense in going higher unless you want to avoid pill changes. I do it so I can not frown upon it, but I know what I am pilled for when I do it. If you put in more pill and raise the psi, you are going to have a much larger hit. Also, I have found that as the bottle gets lower, higher pressures take longer to reach if at all. So just go with the right pills. With 4lbs left in the bottle, it took FOREVER to reach 900psi. Under rated pressure.

edcmat-l1
06-05-2007, 05:47 PM
Plugs have to do with being safe, not power when talking power adder.


Well aware of that.

Noyzee
06-05-2007, 05:49 PM
yea but isnt the limit on the 15lb bottle only like 1300psi?
i run my dry kit on my vett at 1150 shut off on the bottle heater pressure switch. i had an issue with the noid sticking once, but i ditched it and got a new one and since then its fine.

NVR KNO
06-08-2007, 02:37 PM
well i picked it up yesterday. changed the plugs to the tr6s and she runs tip top! had alil issue with the window switch interferring with the spark made by the plugs, but seemed to have fixed it. took her down the road for the first nitrous run and she definetly has some more ass to her now!! she pulls hard as shit in 4th gear too!!

Shawn @ VA Speed
06-08-2007, 08:46 PM
glad to see it's running good.If you can bring it over on Sunday i got something i want to try.

NVR KNO
06-09-2007, 08:22 AM
glad to see you got the screen name. me n kyle were planning on coming by on sunday.... ill bring the car.