Venom14

I hear (read) that almost everyone gets a tune at one point or another

My question is when do you get a tune??? After you mod your car or can you tune a Stock car???

Im all stock…for now…but would a tune be worth getting…whats the price of a tune and what does it consist of???

Lol there is more then 1 ? in this post sorry guys

Fibbado

iTrader: (8)

There are different types of tunes. The one I would say is worth it when your stock is generally like 50$ ( at least in my area ) and it will do the following:

Tune out 02's
Advance/Retard Timing
Tune out AIR/EGR
Disable speed limiter
Disable skip shift
Modify shift points (automatic cars)
.......basically the stuff a handheld programmer does but for cheaper.

The other tune is what you would do when you make major changes, not just catback /intake... like headers or a cam or heads... hell anything power wise is best with a tune. A good tune is a must with a new cam to help out with power/mpg/drivability. Likewise it is important for any type of forced induction or when swapping heads.

cookba

iTrader: (10)

^^ i agree

Venom14

i have a 98 M6 Trans am...and i think the guy that had it before me put the K&N ram air kit on it...it has the ram air hood....

sounds like you know what your talking about....so do you think its worth it???

would i gain any Noticeable power

TLUZLS1

iTrader: (6)

If you wait till after you get a lid, catback, longtubes and a y pipe you will get more out of the tune. Its better to wait until after those mods. IMHO a tune on a stock car is not really worth it if you are gonna mod it. When i say tune, Im referring to a custom dyno tune, its the best and i think the only way to go. They can change shift points, rev/speed limiter, air/fuel ratios, pretty much anything involving the computer. The tunes job is to get the most out of your car, and not just the most hp but rather the best hp. Some tunes are more consertvative than others, if you daily drive your car you may want a more conservative tune that gives you good but power but all the while maintains good gas mileage. These can cost usually anywhere from 300 to 500 bucks and are worth every bit.

Hope this helped

Venom14

Thanks

yes this did help

it hasn’t even been 2 months since i got the car so I’m just doing the research before I do anything to it….so it will stay stock for some time

tylerdj

iTrader: (31)

I wouldn't get a tune until you get some decent upgrades - headers/exhaust or cam, etc..

davered00ss

iTrader: (4)

I have seen stock 01/02 cars gain a lot from a tune 10+rwhp. A nod modded 98 probably not worth it. Tune is normally in the $500 range. I have never seen $50. I would avoid the handhelp programmers. Check for someone reputable in your area. Post the question in your local forum on here.

Fibbado

iTrader: (8)

No not 50$ for a DYNO tune, 50$ for a minor tune ( tuning out 02's/AIR/EGR/ speed limiter, etc.) stuff that takes just a few clicks ya know. HSW did all of that for me for 50$. A DYNO tune on the other hand might land some power on a stock car,,,,, MIGHT. I can see where the 01,02's might gain more from a tune.

FieroZ34

iTrader: (1)

I wouldn't let anyone touch the PCM until you modify the engine.

GM has spent more money than you're family tree will ever make on tuning the LS1. The guys that create, and modify the PCM's are without a doubt some of the smartest people GM has working for them. They've enabled a LS1 to run hard and safe in conditions none of us would ever dream of going in, but it could happen. I guarantee you I can put 85 octane in my car, drive it to Death Valley nearly 300 feet below sea level on a 120* day, and run it time after time to redline as hard as I can. And the next day? It will be coming back for more, because the professionals at GM enabled it to.

Here's his list of stuff that some random guy on the interent that you've never met says you should mess with, despite the better judgement of the people who made the car. So if I tell you to pull out your air filter, are you going to listen? At least my mod would accomplish something.

Tune out 02's
-Why would you want to touch any of these? So that the PCM doesn't know what A:F level the car is running at? So it can't tell you when your Cat Converter is failed? Why not just put a carburetor on the car and call it a day?

Advance/Retard Timing
-Why one would retard timing is beyond me. But why would you advance it? So that when you accidentally get a bad tank of fuel you knock and pre-ignite until the Knock sensor tells the PCM to pull timing. Then you start it up again and the process repeats itself. I'm not totally positive, but I'm pretty sure detonation isn't good for your engine. But go ahead and trust the gas companies, I mean at $3.80/gallon they have to have smarter people than GM does.

Tune out AIR/EGR
-Again, why would one do this? It isn't going to get you any power. It isn't going to make your engine get better mileage. It isn't going to make your engine run better. Quite simply, it will make your engine run worse, and you will dirty up the environment more than you already are. You may as well save your money, save the time, save the headache, save your brain from frying brain cells as your car reeks of exhaust for the first 10 minutes after every start-up, and you'll be making the world a better place for your kids and my kids.

Disable speed limiter
-It'd be quite hypocritical for me to argue against doing this. However, it is free and takes but a second to unplug your VSS before you wish to make a top speed run.

Disable skip shift
-Again, it'd be quite hypocritical for me to argue against doing this. However, it is cheaper to just get a Skip Shift eliminator.

Modify shift points (automatic cars)
-The factory places the shift points at THE MOST OPTIMAL place for a factory LS1. I've poured over a lot of dyno sheets, and the stock shift points are within 100rpm of optimal for the first 3 gears for a stock LS1. Why change it? So you can rev higher and stress your motor just so you can run slower?

FieroZ34

iTrader: (1)

Bullsh!t. I watched a bone stock 2002 dyno a few days ago. Bone stock down to the paper air filter. His A:F ratio was a straight line at 12.8:1 from 2,000rpm to redline. You think your tune is going to get better fueling than that? That was also at 6,000ft altitude. Take the car down to sea level and see what happens. I'll bet you pink slips it's a straight line at 12.8:1 from idle to redline. And now timing. Yes, there can be a small, very small, amount of power to be gained from advancing timing. But is it worth the detonation you'll undoubtedly face when you get a bad batch of fuel? Or your wife puts in 85 octane because it's cheaper? Or the air temperature is much hotter than the guy who you hired for $500 tuned your car for? I'll sacrifice 5hp for 50,000 miles any day of the week.

infinitebird

iTrader: (11)

FieroZ34, Not to sound like an *** here, but a lot of your post really makes no sense to me.

While it's probably not worth it for most people, there are quite a few changes you can make that can be beneficial even on a stock car.

While this is true, what you seem to be implying by it (that GM knows how to tune these cars better than the average enthusiast) is not necessarily true. GM's stock tune is a lowest common denominator type thing that has to work for everyone that could be driving the car (including everyone from teenagers to old grandmas) and it has to take into consideration a bunch of things like MPG, emissions compliance, reliability, etc which can rob power. If someone's goal is to get the most power out of their car and is willing to sacrifice some of those other things, the stock tune is most definitely not the most optimal for them.

That's a pretty retarded statement. Yeah it might not blow up, but it will ping like crazy and will definitely NOT be a good idea. Since you seem to be saying GM is right on everything, I think you should check your owners manual which states that 91+ octane is needed. If you are going to consistently run less, you need to reduce the stock timing to account for that.

While it's true that you shouldn't listen to any random person giving you stupid advice on an internet site about your car, there is a difference between doing that and relying on sound advice that a knowledgeable community has developed a reasonable consensus on. Removing your air filter is a patently absurd suggestion which would be labeled as such by 99+% of people on this forum, however there are many common mods (which improve performance over stock) which have been proven over and over by many people.

How about people who have removed their cats (for more power, for sound, whatever) and still have to pass emissions. Tuning these out is essential for those people. Install a carburetor?? I'm sorry but your analogies are so over the top as to be absurd.

How about if you are running a big shot of nitrous? or boost? or you want to run 85 octane like you mentioned above?

In the midst of your misguided rant against tuning its becoming clear that you really don't know that much about general engine modification either.

Simple, for more power. If you can safely run more timing then stock, why not? If you have tuning capabilities (oh wait you hate that, nm) you can safely advance timing (while getting no knock).

This statement coming from the same person who just said you could do ***** out runs on 85 octane with no consequences???!!!

How about to make your engine bay look a lot cleaner and make it easier to work on your car. That's why I did it on mine.

You continue to display your naivete. Removing the AIR/EGR will neither make your engine run worse nor will it noticeably change your exhaust smell. You might fail an emissions test, but that will be about the only negative consequence involved. The only things that are going to do what you're describing wrt the exhaust are things like installing headers, removing the cats, etc.

I don't always know before driving my car when I will want to do a top speed run. That's usually a when the mood strikes kind of thing. Why would I want to constantly unplug a sensor when I can just tune it out and be done with it? You're making less and less sense here.

Not for me. Since I already have tuning software, I can do it for free.

Maybe beacause you don't like the mood/character of part throttle shifts. Not everything is about top power at WOT. Lots of different people drive cars many of which have different tastes and driving habits. The ability to change your shift points is just another feature you get when you tune your car to better match your goals for it.

In summary you seem to be of the opinion that GM got everything right (a position easily refuted by the number of widely documented common flaws on these cars). I think you need to widen your mode of thinking a little.

tylerdj

iTrader: (31)

Fierzo --- Infinitebird is right...I was going to take the time to reply to each post but infinitebird took the words out of my mouth. None of your posts really make that much sense...I mean if you basically look at what you said it would be stupid for anyone to physically modify anything on their car because it won't run the way GM sent it from the factory. Seriously, look up that stuff first (removing o2's, removing egr/air) theres some pretty good discussions that explain that removing egr/air WILL NOT harm your engine or make it run worse.

5301113

iTrader: (18)

I AGREE

98Camarod

iTrader: (43)

The tuners around here said it would be 50 to tune out o2's, egr, air, correct speedo, and change fans, PLUS 100 for the license. I'll be getting my own hp tuners here shortly.

Wait until you throw a cam in there before you get a tune, it would be a waste other wise if you look at the horsepower you COULD gain compared to the price you will pay. It would be beneficial to get a tune after a cam and or head swap and it is necessary.

FieroZ34

iTrader: (1)

Yah. You're spot on, the average enthusiast knows how to tune these cars better than the genius who built it. Right. GM build it, and tuned it, to make the highest amount possible whilst still retaining a margin of error for the unexpected. Like a bad tank of gas. Like a bad fuel filter. Like your wife putting 85 in. If you want to throw all of this safety out the window, and trust the gas companies who are making love to your prison hole, go ahead. But I'll be 5hp down from you, and with a running engine the day we both get a bad tank.

Of course it's not a good idea to do so, but it can be done. As for the pinging like crazy, not really. It will ping and detonate for about 8 engine cycles, and then the PCM will adjust for it, and until you start the car again, it won't ping. 91+ is needed for optimal performance, but some females don't understand that. Thus I'll be 5hp down from you, but my car won't blow up with a few tanks of 85 octane fuel.

So let's see this proof. I want a before and after dyno on a STOCK car with just a tune.

I CLEARLY said STOCK CARS. That doesn't mean the guy who took a hacksaw to his exhaust system. That means someone like me, who hasn't so much as touched the engine on their Camaro, right down tot he paper air filter. I then clearly stated that tuning a car is a good idea once you modify it. But if you are going to tune out your O2's, you may as well install a carb, as you've just taken away one of the biggest functions EFI brings to us.

Maybe you can read it this time.

How so? Because I understand GM fuel injection because I have spent over 8 years studying and modifying it, only to figure out that on a stock car, it really isn't possible to outdo what the factory did and retain the margin of error? That's not one proving he knows little about automotive modification, that's one understanding where no good will come from screwing with it. Don't fix what isn't broken.

Find me one gas station that gives out perfect gasoline, EVERY GALLON. Then you can safely run more timing than stock. About enough timing to give you 4-5hp. I've done this, on many cars, only to be quite unimpressed with the results.

And you can. The only consequence is that for those first 8 engine cycles, you will ping. But after that, it will be safe. You may only make 200hp, but it will be safe to do so.

I haven't needed to work on any of my LS1s. The day I do, it goes to the dealership under warranty

I removed AIR and EGR on a friend's LS1 a few eeks ago. I;ve since put both systems right back on the car. It REEKS of exhaust for the first 10 minutes of run time. It is to the point that it gives you a headache. GM made the cold-start maps under the assumption that these systems would be on and operational. Removing the AIR system does the same thing as removing the cats for the first 10 minutes of runtime.

Understood, however I'm not sure if I would spend $50 solely to remove the limiter, but I understand some people would.

I'll give you that one too, however there's a reason GM put a 6-speed in the cars. My shifts are however I want them to be.

When it comes to the PCM and EFI, GM did get everything right. That is one of the few parts on any GM vehicle that I can honestly say is perfect. Even in the old days of OBD1, they were still fantastic.

ls1charged

iTrader: (8)

unless u have a rare car, or a 1 out of 300 something or other, who the hell leaves there f body stock?

FieroZ34

iTrader: (1)

Maybe someone who enjoys the car as it is. Someone who bought it, is completely happy with the 345hp it has, loves the stock sound, and has no interest in trying to make it faster.

I fit the role, as do hundreds of other LS1 owners. Yes, it is a great platform to modify, and in a car that is known for heavy modification. But that doesn't mean a lot of people aren't happy with the way it is stock.

Fibbado

iTrader: (8)

Look the tune I was talking about was all commonly done, accepted, safely practiced (perhaps not the timing, I did not do anything there) but for someone that is modifying there car perhaps LT's leave the car with no cats and so you would tune out the REAR 02's ( sorry I did not think that I would have to clarify that, please forgive me master) rear 02's don't affect performance/reliability in the least.. they monitor the catalyctic efficiency. Tuning out the AIR/EGR is also another LT install tid-bit as MOST LT's leave you with no provisions for those systems.

Agreed now that I look back at my post it was stupid to reccomend tuning out those systems when stock and I should have explained what each provision should accompany, my apologies. However both the EGR and AIR systems will continue to work if tuned out... tuning them out does not affect their functionality... it only sets the PCM to see them as always functional and never set a trouble code. Thats why the AIR system still blows for a while when i start my car even though the AIR is tuned out. As far as changing the smell, it quite possibly could as without the cats being heated up they are doing nothing essentially to catalyze the exhaust gases. You are right there.

I was just trying to describe the different type of tunes that people generally get, I did not mean to suggest one or the other. Although now that I read my post again it looks like I did, my apologies.

Venom14

After reading all this there is only one word I can say WOW….like I mentioned before im the new guy, I have only had my Trans am for just a little over a month now….i have now seen how different people have different opinions about what to do and what not to do to these cars….i would like to thank all of you that posted…this gives me a better understanding of why or why not to tune a stock car….i initially asked this question about the tune because I was curious about getting more HP with out any other mods…for the simple fact that right now I don’t have the money to spend on Long Tubes, Cam, Cat Back and the other good stuff….but later once I save some money will definitely be getting some bolt ons.

All in all thanks for the info