Woo hoo no drinking order!
06-24-2007, 05:58 AM
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Woo hoo no drinking order! Im down in Crete and got banned from drinking downtown in Hania! Wow thank god I didnt make tech or the line number would have gone bye bye!
06-24-2007, 07:35 AM
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06-24-2007, 09:26 PM
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I wouldn't exactly be bragging about that??
What are you, like 12 or something? Grow up!
As being an NCO you have the responsibility to your troops that you are "mature" and will DO the right thing. Getting a no drinking order isn't exactly, um, good. Glad I'm not your troop. The guys that you write on (IF any) will have horrible EPR's JUST because it's you...
See it first hand, I would say "THANKS SARGE!"
What are you, like 12 or something? Grow up!
As being an NCO you have the responsibility to your troops that you are "mature" and will DO the right thing. Getting a no drinking order isn't exactly, um, good. Glad I'm not your troop. The guys that you write on (IF any) will have horrible EPR's JUST because it's you...
See it first hand, I would say "THANKS SARGE!"
06-26-2007, 02:42 AM
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holy **** dude, chill out. yeah, as an NCO he's supposed to uphold certain standards, but come'on - u dont even know his situation. i know people that were awesome troops but suddenly turn for the worse in a day because of a whole bunch of personal stuff that happened and they just get fed up with life and dont care anymore. perhaps thats what they just figured wuld be the best option at the time. was it right? no. but they'll think about it after the consequences and realize how serious their actions were.
maybe the NCO here had a real bad week or weekend and decided this was the best way to relieve the stress? was it wrong? yeah. but does it mean he's worthless as a supervisor? not in the least. he culd know more regs than u know people, and he may have even stood up for his troops when they've screwed up in the past, but since he had a bit too much fun one night, that makes him a horrible NCO?? get real dude.
seriously, grow up. its people like YOU, splitz, that make the AF a bad day at work. people like you that have the same philosophy make it hard to get along at work. yeah, the AF has regs, rules, and standards, but that doesnt mean that if u dont adhere to them to the fullest that ur a dirtbag. u know, sometimes, all a troop needs is to have an NCO simply talk to him/her, on the side, and tell him/her what could happen if the action continues. i remeber when i was on mids and i was doing burnouts on the bridge right before the bombdump one night before work, some TSgt. caught me and reported me directly to the Chief. i didnt even hear about it til my shop chief - MSgt. - talked to me one morning an said that i just gotta stop doin that, but he's already talked to the Chief an straightened it out. i havent done a burnout on the bridge since then.
am i a dirtbag because i did that? id like to think not. im young and have a fast car - im gonna be tempted to do such things. all it took was someone to pull me aside an say "hey, this needs to stop. i took care of it this time, but i wont do this for u again."
maybe the NCO here had a real bad week or weekend and decided this was the best way to relieve the stress? was it wrong? yeah. but does it mean he's worthless as a supervisor? not in the least. he culd know more regs than u know people, and he may have even stood up for his troops when they've screwed up in the past, but since he had a bit too much fun one night, that makes him a horrible NCO?? get real dude.
seriously, grow up. its people like YOU, splitz, that make the AF a bad day at work. people like you that have the same philosophy make it hard to get along at work. yeah, the AF has regs, rules, and standards, but that doesnt mean that if u dont adhere to them to the fullest that ur a dirtbag. u know, sometimes, all a troop needs is to have an NCO simply talk to him/her, on the side, and tell him/her what could happen if the action continues. i remeber when i was on mids and i was doing burnouts on the bridge right before the bombdump one night before work, some TSgt. caught me and reported me directly to the Chief. i didnt even hear about it til my shop chief - MSgt. - talked to me one morning an said that i just gotta stop doin that, but he's already talked to the Chief an straightened it out. i havent done a burnout on the bridge since then.
am i a dirtbag because i did that? id like to think not. im young and have a fast car - im gonna be tempted to do such things. all it took was someone to pull me aside an say "hey, this needs to stop. i took care of it this time, but i wont do this for u again."
06-26-2007, 05:53 AM
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Well, guess when I took the NCO creed it actually MEANT something instead of just words that I repeated.
Higher EXPECTATIONS come with that 4th stripe, your expected at ACT differently, THINK differently, and BEHAVE differently.
This is the inherent problem in today's USAF, people don't understand the valuve of what they have in the military. Don't RESPECT the rules and regulations because "IT was JUST a burnout, Why does it matter?".
WHY does it matter??? BECAUSE it's innappropriate behavior! The military expects a different standards of behavior that's "higher" than others.
I'm sorry if I think on a higher level than you and expect more of NCO's. I guess I had good TGt. MSGT, and 1st SGT's that expected MORE of their NCO's. He guided into THINKING like one, not like some kid out of Lackland who truely doesn't know any better.
Off soap box.
Higher EXPECTATIONS come with that 4th stripe, your expected at ACT differently, THINK differently, and BEHAVE differently.
This is the inherent problem in today's USAF, people don't understand the valuve of what they have in the military. Don't RESPECT the rules and regulations because "IT was JUST a burnout, Why does it matter?".
WHY does it matter??? BECAUSE it's innappropriate behavior! The military expects a different standards of behavior that's "higher" than others.
I'm sorry if I think on a higher level than you and expect more of NCO's. I guess I had good TGt. MSGT, and 1st SGT's that expected MORE of their NCO's. He guided into THINKING like one, not like some kid out of Lackland who truely doesn't know any better.
Off soap box.
06-26-2007, 07:52 AM
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They do have to behave different and think different but when it comes down to it we are all just human and humans make mistake's. Now you just have to learn from them if you go out and do it again then you have a problem.
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06-26-2007, 04:22 PM
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so u actually think that simply because an NCO had a bad night out, that it makes him a horrible, pathetic, worthless NCO?? thats what i dont understand about you. how can you automatically come up with that conclusion about someone that you really dont even know? what if that NCO did everything in his power to stand up for his troops? what if he made sure his troops got every award they deserved, and made sure they get ample comp. time? what if he counseled his troops when they messed up, but praised them when they did an above-exceptional job on their duties? you're going to call someone out simply because of one screw-up, and make sure everyone knows that they're a p.o.s. NCO because of it? THATS why people hate going to work everyday in the AF - because nobody gives them a chance after one screw up. supervision wants to rail anyone for the slightest mistake, then turn around and wonder why their shop has low morale.
paperwork is NOT the answer to all problems. why dont you get that? it seems like thats everyone's solution to every problem, when sometimes, all it takes is a down-to-earth conversation from a higher rank. we're humans - treat us that way. a mistake happens once; after that, it becomes a habit.
the OP chose one of two paths after this incident: either a) he realized his mistake, took the punishment to heart (however serious it was), and decided not to do it again; or b) figured the best thing to do is give up, since thats wut it seems like wut supervision is doing for him.
paperwork is NOT the answer to all problems. why dont you get that? it seems like thats everyone's solution to every problem, when sometimes, all it takes is a down-to-earth conversation from a higher rank. we're humans - treat us that way. a mistake happens once; after that, it becomes a habit.
the OP chose one of two paths after this incident: either a) he realized his mistake, took the punishment to heart (however serious it was), and decided not to do it again; or b) figured the best thing to do is give up, since thats wut it seems like wut supervision is doing for him.
06-26-2007, 09:19 PM
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Well, to the original poster, I doubt he'll answer this question "Is this the 1st time you've been "Warned" for drinking?".
Honestly, I think there is more to the story and I severly DOUBT this is a first time offense. Most of the time that I've come across this starts the pattern.
If I'm wrong I'll apologize and admit my mistake.
I've seen it first hand. I had an E4 that I was writing on. Was taken to the hospital one night for being nearly DEAD in his dorm room and had a BAC of .26. I kept it under the table (took **** for it), counceled the guy (LOC/MFR). TWO weeks later, he did the SAME thing. Couldn't save him this time, ended up with a "no drinking order", had to goto AA meetings and couldn't drink for 6 months. The LOR came from Squadron commander (O-5). Because of this I wrote the E4 a 3. It got kicked back to me THREE times because of his "pattern" and it was knocked down to a 2, no matter HOW much fighting I did. They also required me to put the last line of the EPR as "Does NOT recommend for Promotion at this time". He wasn't due to test anyway, he's gonna have it hard the next couple of cycles.
As an NCO you should know when to drink and when NOT to drink. Shop Chiefs/SUpervisors that are over E-7 try to handle it at the lowest level. ONce it gets above their level, there was a PATTERN of behavior.
WE're not hearing the entire story........So don't my *** for doing the "right" thing.
Yes, we are human and can make mistakes, but doing something like that in my opinion isn't a MISTAKE, you CHOOSE to drink, it was the wrong decision and should be "punished" for his actions. So yes, I will call him out. Coming on here and bragging about it to me, felt shame for being a USAF member and serving with a guy that has obvious disregard of personal behavior in a foreign country. IF a guy goes into his commanders office and takes a dump on his desk, is that a "human" mistake?
Drinking is NOT a mistake, it's a CHOICE! Most AFI's are broken via personal decisions, NOT mistakes. List can go on and on....that's why its SO easy for the military to kick people out nowadays. Once mistake and it's "Dereliction of Duty" then force shaping takes effect. It's a sucky USAF world, and the way it is now, ONE mistake can screw aNYBODY up. There isnt' room for "mistakes".
Integrity, Service Before SELF, and Excellence in all we Do (but doesn't include getting drunk in another country and ending up with that).
Honestly, I think there is more to the story and I severly DOUBT this is a first time offense. Most of the time that I've come across this starts the pattern.
If I'm wrong I'll apologize and admit my mistake.
I've seen it first hand. I had an E4 that I was writing on. Was taken to the hospital one night for being nearly DEAD in his dorm room and had a BAC of .26. I kept it under the table (took **** for it), counceled the guy (LOC/MFR). TWO weeks later, he did the SAME thing. Couldn't save him this time, ended up with a "no drinking order", had to goto AA meetings and couldn't drink for 6 months. The LOR came from Squadron commander (O-5). Because of this I wrote the E4 a 3. It got kicked back to me THREE times because of his "pattern" and it was knocked down to a 2, no matter HOW much fighting I did. They also required me to put the last line of the EPR as "Does NOT recommend for Promotion at this time". He wasn't due to test anyway, he's gonna have it hard the next couple of cycles.
As an NCO you should know when to drink and when NOT to drink. Shop Chiefs/SUpervisors that are over E-7 try to handle it at the lowest level. ONce it gets above their level, there was a PATTERN of behavior.
WE're not hearing the entire story........So don't my *** for doing the "right" thing.
Yes, we are human and can make mistakes, but doing something like that in my opinion isn't a MISTAKE, you CHOOSE to drink, it was the wrong decision and should be "punished" for his actions. So yes, I will call him out. Coming on here and bragging about it to me, felt shame for being a USAF member and serving with a guy that has obvious disregard of personal behavior in a foreign country. IF a guy goes into his commanders office and takes a dump on his desk, is that a "human" mistake?
Drinking is NOT a mistake, it's a CHOICE! Most AFI's are broken via personal decisions, NOT mistakes. List can go on and on....that's why its SO easy for the military to kick people out nowadays. Once mistake and it's "Dereliction of Duty" then force shaping takes effect. It's a sucky USAF world, and the way it is now, ONE mistake can screw aNYBODY up. There isnt' room for "mistakes".
Integrity, Service Before SELF, and Excellence in all we Do (but doesn't include getting drunk in another country and ending up with that).
06-27-2007, 12:15 PM
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It was a passover celebration gone bad. **** happened but since I am a exceptional worker it got lifted two days later. I screwed up but I took not making it super hard especially when a achievment medal would have made the difference. Oh well
06-27-2007, 12:16 PM
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Mr splitz
It was a first time offense. I dont normally go out and get smashed and break the rules everyday. Oh and please dont tell me that you are that perfect if so you wouldnt be you know what nevermind because its just going to turn into a pissing match over the internet. Which will make us bothlook unproffessional.
It was a dumb post but damn man I have never gotten in trouble like this before but I work hard and it was a night out that I could drink to passover and it went bad. **** happens unfortunatly for me it happens all the ******* time.
It was a first time offense. I dont normally go out and get smashed and break the rules everyday. Oh and please dont tell me that you are that perfect if so you wouldnt be you know what nevermind because its just going to turn into a pissing match over the internet. Which will make us bothlook unproffessional.
It was a dumb post but damn man I have never gotten in trouble like this before but I work hard and it was a night out that I could drink to passover and it went bad. **** happens unfortunatly for me it happens all the ******* time.
06-27-2007, 03:13 PM
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Please accept my apology!
Just for the record, I don't get **** drunk. I know my limit! And two is just about it. I'm a pathetic drinker so I DON'T do it.
And if I do attempt it, I'll just fall asleep...
Just for the record, I don't get **** drunk. I know my limit! And two is just about it. I'm a pathetic drinker so I DON'T do it.
And if I do attempt it, I'll just fall asleep...
06-27-2007, 03:23 PM
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I fell for you man, the days for being able to take care of your people are over. The “Wingman” concept of a pile of crap. I just got a LOR/UIF for professional relation ship because my wingman helped me out during an ugly divorce. This was all based of perception, no facts. Fell luck this was not a member of the opposite sex you would have really been screwed.
06-27-2007, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Splitz
Well, guess when I took the NCO creed it actually MEANT something instead of just words that I repeated.
Higher EXPECTATIONS come with that 4th stripe, your expected at ACT differently, THINK differently, and BEHAVE differently.
This is the inherent problem in today's USAF, people don't understand the valuve of what they have in the military. Don't RESPECT the rules and regulations because "IT was JUST a burnout, Why does it matter?".
WHY does it matter??? BECAUSE it's innappropriate behavior! The military expects a different standards of behavior that's "higher" than others.
I'm sorry if I think on a higher level than you and expect more of NCO's. I guess I had good TGt. MSGT, and 1st SGT's that expected MORE of their NCO's. He guided into THINKING like one, not like some kid out of Lackland who truely doesn't know any better.
Off soap box.
Higher EXPECTATIONS come with that 4th stripe, your expected at ACT differently, THINK differently, and BEHAVE differently.
This is the inherent problem in today's USAF, people don't understand the valuve of what they have in the military. Don't RESPECT the rules and regulations because "IT was JUST a burnout, Why does it matter?".
WHY does it matter??? BECAUSE it's innappropriate behavior! The military expects a different standards of behavior that's "higher" than others.
I'm sorry if I think on a higher level than you and expect more of NCO's. I guess I had good TGt. MSGT, and 1st SGT's that expected MORE of their NCO's. He guided into THINKING like one, not like some kid out of Lackland who truely doesn't know any better.
Off soap box.
My favorite type of "ate-up" right there.
06-27-2007, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Splitz
Well, to the original poster, I doubt he'll answer this question "Is this the 1st time you've been "Warned" for drinking?".
Honestly, I think there is more to the story and I severly DOUBT this is a first time offense. Most of the time that I've come across this starts the pattern.
If I'm wrong I'll apologize and admit my mistake.
I've seen it first hand. I had an E4 that I was writing on. Was taken to the hospital one night for being nearly DEAD in his dorm room and had a BAC of .26. I kept it under the table (took **** for it), counceled the guy (LOC/MFR). TWO weeks later, he did the SAME thing. Couldn't save him this time, ended up with a "no drinking order", had to goto AA meetings and couldn't drink for 6 months. The LOR came from Squadron commander (O-5). Because of this I wrote the E4 a 3. It got kicked back to me THREE times because of his "pattern" and it was knocked down to a 2, no matter HOW much fighting I did. They also required me to put the last line of the EPR as "Does NOT recommend for Promotion at this time". He wasn't due to test anyway, he's gonna have it hard the next couple of cycles.
As an NCO you should know when to drink and when NOT to drink. Shop Chiefs/SUpervisors that are over E-7 try to handle it at the lowest level. ONce it gets above their level, there was a PATTERN of behavior.
WE're not hearing the entire story........So don't my *** for doing the "right" thing.
Yes, we are human and can make mistakes, but doing something like that in my opinion isn't a MISTAKE, you CHOOSE to drink, it was the wrong decision and should be "punished" for his actions. So yes, I will call him out. Coming on here and bragging about it to me, felt shame for being a USAF member and serving with a guy that has obvious disregard of personal behavior in a foreign country. IF a guy goes into his commanders office and takes a dump on his desk, is that a "human" mistake?
Drinking is NOT a mistake, it's a CHOICE! Most AFI's are broken via personal decisions, NOT mistakes. List can go on and on....that's why its SO easy for the military to kick people out nowadays. Once mistake and it's "Dereliction of Duty" then force shaping takes effect. It's a sucky USAF world, and the way it is now, ONE mistake can screw aNYBODY up. There isnt' room for "mistakes".
Integrity, Service Before SELF, and Excellence in all we Do (but doesn't include getting drunk in another country and ending up with that).
Honestly, I think there is more to the story and I severly DOUBT this is a first time offense. Most of the time that I've come across this starts the pattern.
If I'm wrong I'll apologize and admit my mistake.
I've seen it first hand. I had an E4 that I was writing on. Was taken to the hospital one night for being nearly DEAD in his dorm room and had a BAC of .26. I kept it under the table (took **** for it), counceled the guy (LOC/MFR). TWO weeks later, he did the SAME thing. Couldn't save him this time, ended up with a "no drinking order", had to goto AA meetings and couldn't drink for 6 months. The LOR came from Squadron commander (O-5). Because of this I wrote the E4 a 3. It got kicked back to me THREE times because of his "pattern" and it was knocked down to a 2, no matter HOW much fighting I did. They also required me to put the last line of the EPR as "Does NOT recommend for Promotion at this time". He wasn't due to test anyway, he's gonna have it hard the next couple of cycles.
As an NCO you should know when to drink and when NOT to drink. Shop Chiefs/SUpervisors that are over E-7 try to handle it at the lowest level. ONce it gets above their level, there was a PATTERN of behavior.
WE're not hearing the entire story........So don't my *** for doing the "right" thing.
Yes, we are human and can make mistakes, but doing something like that in my opinion isn't a MISTAKE, you CHOOSE to drink, it was the wrong decision and should be "punished" for his actions. So yes, I will call him out. Coming on here and bragging about it to me, felt shame for being a USAF member and serving with a guy that has obvious disregard of personal behavior in a foreign country. IF a guy goes into his commanders office and takes a dump on his desk, is that a "human" mistake?
Drinking is NOT a mistake, it's a CHOICE! Most AFI's are broken via personal decisions, NOT mistakes. List can go on and on....that's why its SO easy for the military to kick people out nowadays. Once mistake and it's "Dereliction of Duty" then force shaping takes effect. It's a sucky USAF world, and the way it is now, ONE mistake can screw aNYBODY up. There isnt' room for "mistakes".
Integrity, Service Before SELF, and Excellence in all we Do (but doesn't include getting drunk in another country and ending up with that).
If you felt shame for someone you dont even know getting a no drinking order, you need to step away from the PFE and get back to the real world.
I like how you jumped right to judgement about Ryan without having a clue about him. Congrats, thats typical Flight Chief assumptions right there, I can tell you will go far in this AirForce. To assume that "we arent getting the right story" right off the damn bat, man thats so typical for someone that yacks about "NCO creed" and AFIs and the Core Values.
Great job. PROMOTE NOW!
06-27-2007, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by MoesSS
I fell for you man, the days for being able to take care of your people are over. The “Wingman” concept of a pile of crap. I just got a LOR/UIF for professional relation ship because my wingman helped me out during an ugly divorce. This was all based of perception, no facts. Fell luck this was not a member of the opposite sex you would have really been screwed.
I feel you on "perception" when I was getting divorced my commander slapped me with a "no contact order" on a woman they couldnt even name, now how does that work? My ex-wife wanted no part in the order, my sorry *** commander just up and ran with a "no contact order with any female other than wife" and I swear thats exactly how it read. Like I raped somebody. The idiot didnt have a name to give me a no contact against, so he wrote to say "any female", how stupid is that?
The AirForce needs to stay out of members bedrooms, especially when tough times and divorce is involved. People are stressed enough at home, no need to bring the bullshit on you at work as well.
06-27-2007, 04:38 PM
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lol at people who are overly concerned because he got put on a "no drinking order" I've seen Majors and LTC's get DUI's and they are supposed to be the actual leader of a squadron?? Sorry, but this is an imperfect world and some things just happen. He had a bad night, or he went out and had fun. For all you know hes a 24 year old Staff who just got cheated on by his wife back home and this was a way for him to destress. Yea hes a NCO and he needs to uphold his responsibility of being the mentor for his troops, but he is also human. Everyone makes mistakes.
06-27-2007, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by BigT2002
lol at people who are overly concerned because he got put on a "no drinking order" I've seen Majors and LTC's get DUI's and they are supposed to be the actual leader of a squadron?? Sorry, but this is an imperfect world and some things just happen. He had a bad night, or he went out and had fun. For all you know hes a 24 year old Staff who just got cheated on by his wife back home and this was a way for him to destress. Yea hes a NCO and he needs to uphold his responsibility of being the mentor for his troops, but he is also human. Everyone makes mistakes.
06-27-2007, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by camaroguy_02
so u actually think that simply because an NCO had a bad night out, that it makes him a horrible, pathetic, worthless NCO?? thats what i dont understand about you. how can you automatically come up with that conclusion about someone that you really dont even know? what if that NCO did everything in his power to stand up for his troops? what if he made sure his troops got every award they deserved, and made sure they get ample comp. time? what if he counseled his troops when they messed up, but praised them when they did an above-exceptional job on their duties? you're going to call someone out simply because of one screw-up, and make sure everyone knows that they're a p.o.s. NCO because of it? THATS why people hate going to work everyday in the AF - because nobody gives them a chance after one screw up. supervision wants to rail anyone for the slightest mistake, then turn around and wonder why their shop has low morale.
paperwork is NOT the answer to all problems. why dont you get that? it seems like thats everyone's solution to every problem, when sometimes, all it takes is a down-to-earth conversation from a higher rank. we're humans - treat us that way. a mistake happens once; after that, it becomes a habit.
the OP chose one of two paths after this incident: either a) he realized his mistake, took the punishment to heart (however serious it was), and decided not to do it again; or b) figured the best thing to do is give up, since thats wut it seems like wut supervision is doing for him.
paperwork is NOT the answer to all problems. why dont you get that? it seems like thats everyone's solution to every problem, when sometimes, all it takes is a down-to-earth conversation from a higher rank. we're humans - treat us that way. a mistake happens once; after that, it becomes a habit.
the OP chose one of two paths after this incident: either a) he realized his mistake, took the punishment to heart (however serious it was), and decided not to do it again; or b) figured the best thing to do is give up, since thats wut it seems like wut supervision is doing for him.
I am a SrA who will be testing for Staff when I get home. Stationed at Ramstein and Shaw I've had my mix of all branches, and I see and hear the difference when NCOs and subordinates talk to one another. However, if you have seen what I've seen then you KNOW that we are not like them. Look at the officers who make inappropiate jokes or comments to enlisted personnel and don't have anything happen to them because of rank? Look at the SNCO's that don't even know how to do their own damn AFSC anymore because they are "management" positions. Its kind of hard to lead your flight or squadron when you, in turn, can't even remember what regulation states what. Look at the NCO's who just don't care about their appearance. I've had to get on three Techs because they weren't shaving. When I told the other SrA he needed to shave because he was definately out of regs my NCOIC told me to "chill out" and "remember your in a hostile area, we don't care about things like that." Yep that is the kind of NCO you want me to be like because she hasn't gotten in trouble and she kisses their CC's ***? As a E-4, SrA, subordinate...I would take a NCO who got a DUI on one bad night over someone I can't respect to uphold our core values day in and day out.
off my soap box