MNY PIT

do you guys think the 3 point SFC's are worth the extra $150.00 dollars? Im going to buy a set of umi's but can not figure out which to get... 2 point or 3.

subtlez28

iTrader: (15)

IMHO there is no real proof (like scientific data) that SFCs are worth the $, period.

But in theory the 3pts should be better than the 2pts because they tie into more of the chasis, and support more than 1 demension. If you are going to spend the money, I'd get the 3pts that tie into both sides of the LCA pocket (like the UMIs).

If you are just starting modding...spend your $ elsewhere (like shocks/springs/tires/exhaust). Much more real gains there.

MNY PIT

thanks bud for your input. anyone else?

Ruckus46Gt

iTrader: (9)

i'd like my car to stay straight. I know on mustangs they make a huge diff with twisting cars. I'd imagine they are the same but idk

subtlez28

iTrader: (15)

I just realized I am a horrible speller (after reading my other post)!

Anyway, 4th gens are supposed to have pretty stiff unibodies. A comparison to mustangs may be a little unfair (except the 05 and newer mustangs that are said to be WAY stiffer).The whole SFC issue is much debated on here. A search will find alot. But anyway, the SFCs only tie into 2 or 3 pieces of sheet metal..people are expecting too much of them (IMHO).

If you've read about quarter panel dimples (common) you should also see that they are associated w crush zones over the axle. SFCs do not strenghten this critical part. If simple 3pt SFCs made a serious diff, GM failed on there chassis design. Thee real way to strenghten the car is a roll cage. Short of that is probly just wishful thinking.

Eric @ WAR

IMO SFCs should be one of the first suspension mods you get. I've always recommended them and everyone is happy that they got them early on. Trust me you'll hate the squeeks and rattles once they form. Prevent that now with SFCs and you'll be a happy camper (even though you may not know it at the moment).

There are also more 2pt SFCs on cars than 3pt (that goes to show you that 2pts are very capable)_ For your everyday driving, weekend 1/4 mile beast, and occassional auto-x stints...2 pt will be fine. Either way, you'll be glad you got a set.

NHRAMAN

iTrader: (1)

I AGREE 100%

MNY PIT

wow guys thanks for the input. i think i just may pick up a set of 2 pts.

Eric @ WAR

You'll be happy with your SFCs.

To put things into perspective, we've always used 2pt SFCs on all our project F-bodies ranging from 500hp to 900hp. I'll do an occasional auto-x but it's mostly straight line racing, daily driving or some moderate canyon carving for me.

Good luck and enjoy your squeak free ride!

subtlez28

iTrader: (15)

Did you notice the word opinion coming up again, and the lack of any real data. The fact that somewone else has them w "500-900 rwhp" doesn't really mean much, sorry. And if you think they will solve all your squeaks and rattles...

I'm not saying these are evil, or will hurt your car, or even that I can/want to proove they don't work. I just think they are oversold, and should be low on the mod priority list (since there is no PROOF they really improove anything).

I'm not trying to get on a soap box here, but this forum is about sharing information. And I don't want to see people spending $ on parts just because "my cusomers have the" or "I run this -brand/part- its the best". Objective reviews and real data should come into play, I think.

Eric @ WAR

** Want to precede this with I'm not trying to start an argument or fight, nor am I trying to portray a tone that promotes any hostility...so please don't take offense to anything here **

OK...I believe that you thinking SFCs are oversold or should be low in the priority list due to lack of data is your "opinion". If not, please provide hard facts or empirical data supporting the fact that SFCs aren't made for what they're intended for.

At any rate. If people don't have opinions, how do you expect to get 95% of the answers here? Even based on experience people will have opinions on any mod. What other facts are you looking for? Formulas? Tensile/sheer strength data on the forces that act on the body of the car? How about data from the tens of thousands of F-bodies running around and that SFCs are an important suspension mod to have. It's a fact that the F-body's body will flex under the sheer torque/hp these cars have. From the factory there is nothing effectively tying in the main points of the car. After constant flexing your squeaks and rattles will occur. Ask the ton of people who have experienced it. Will SFCs be the one all cure all. NO. But they will dramatically help. Even with the squeaks and rattles, the SFCs have reduced them once installed. This is not my opinion but an experience I have seen countless times.

Give the benefit of the doubt to people honestly answering someone's question. I have helped thousands of F-body owners and never once tried to steer them towards spending unwanted money. Now if you heard me say something like "Yes get those STG III heads for your stock TA. Nevermind that you don't have anything to support those heads but by golly those heads produce great numbers. Don't mind the price tag"...then by all means please please bash on me (lol)

Needless to say, SFCs are an important staple to your mod list. It's high on my list and have always been. Again, this is my opinion based on experience. I can only offer honest opnions/advice. I will never force someone's decision either way. It's ultimately up to them to take in the opinions/advice from others and make their decision. I hope my advice/opnion will help in their decision either way.

DuronClocker

iTrader: (25)

I would like to say that once I installed my 3pt UMI SFCs, I have zero interior squeaks, and I did have a few before had (chassis as 117k miles on it now...SFCs were installed over winter). The Koni shocks didn't fix any of the squeaks when I installed them like some people say they will, but why would they? They were chassis/interior squeaks that I had, not suspension.

I would like to say that I felt the ride got harsher after the SFC install. I imagine this is because the body isn't able to flex and give as much, so whatever the suspension can't soak up all the way, you'll feel more transmitted through the car from each wheel. My Strano springs seem to have made ride quality better though.

I also didn't want my car twisting any more than it already is with any 5000rpm clutch dumps, and figured where the 3pt SFCs mount in the middle of the car would strengthen that area more to better support my chassis-mounted torque arm. Triangle increase torsional rigidity in more directions far better than a single straight line too Not to mention the added safety they provide by having another large steel tube running on the outside of the car to help with accidents.

I'll have to try and find a picture of a third gen that got the entire front end smashed, and damage stopped promptly where beginning of the SFCs were, and that's a head-on collision. Side impacts are improved as well. I've got a 6pt rollbar in my garage going in the car for added strength as well as allowing me to bolt in a harness to be track legal.

Eric @ WAR

Yep after the SFCs are in and if you do an STB the car will definitely be rigid. Because of this you would feel some of those road bumps more than before. A good set of springs/shocks will help give you a more comfortable ride.

subtlez28

iTrader: (15)

Just quoting myself here because I think this point was overlooked in my responce.

I'm not "bashing" anyone for buying/reccomending SFCs. I put them on as one of my 1st mods (I later took them off, but thats another story). Point being that other mods (shocks/springs/tire/exhaust) will get you quantifiable improvements (better lap times/ETs/skid pad Gs/dyno HP). Maybe I had a bad design (SLP bolt ons) but I am much happier w the gains (that can be prooven) from other mods.

Again there have been plenty of threads on the SFC issue, so I won't "argue" any further. My opinion differs from others. Theirs and mine are only opinions. And yes...that is how 95% of the thread questions get answered. I just want to point out that this is an opinion issue...not a black and white factual issue.

Eric @ WAR

Nah we're not "arguing"...just having a conversation expressing our opinions. It's all good!

RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

Like Subtlez28 said, there have been a number of threads in which this has been hotly debated. A few hi-tech guys brought a lot of science to the discussion - mostly against SFC's.

My experience: when I first got them, I hated them because of the impact harshness they transmitted to the cabin. But as time has gone on, I've started to appreciate how my car feels like a tight unit compared to other f-bodies I've driven that feel like they're going to fall apart when you hit a bump.

I would only say get some good shocks first before you do SFC's and then decide if you still want/need them. And I agree that 2 pts. ought to be fine for most applications.

infinitebird

iTrader: (11)

I would agree that, while there seems to be not much scientific data on exactly how sfc's help, and a lot of the pro suspension people in here seem to be against them, there does seem to be a large quantity of unscientific data (namely people's opinions/experiences, sotp feellings etc) that suggest they are a good mod to reduce chassis flexing and creaks/rattles. Given that, its up to everyone to decide for themselves whether they want to get them.

I think part of the issue is that, yes there is less quantifiable ways to measure the benefits from sfcs than other mods. Like you can say swaybars/shocks cut your autox time by X amount or torque arm cut X off your ET. The benefit to SFCs seems to be a more qualitative assessment of improvement in general ride feel.