View Poll Results: What have YOU seen/done/actually experienced?
Katech.. Swap-n-go, the only way
19
23.75%
ARP...Swap-n-go (no rod resizing)
25
31.25%
ARP... Swap-n-blow (actually seen problems w/not resizing rods)
0
0%
Ive heard sex lube with Re-used stockers work best(do you just wanna click a button? 
)
)
36
45.00%
Voters: 80. You may not vote on this poll
Rod Bolts! lets get a poll going to get some actual numbers
07-12-2007, 01:02 AM
#1
Launching!
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Rod Bolts! lets get a poll going to get some actual numbers Bolts... countless threads, and no seemingly conclusive results. the two schools of thought are:
Katech, the only way to replace bolts without resizing your rods
and
ARP.. Fine to swap-n-go.
maybe we can actually snag an engine builder in this one who has had some experience and clear this up a bit for the constant controversy that has surrounded this topic.
someone who uses severely abuses their car, i.e. road racing or drag racing should chime in here.. Ill be calling vengeance in the morning, as I just ordered arp's and some other goodies from them to see what they have to offer for advice.....
Nine Eight
Katech, the only way to replace bolts without resizing your rods
and
ARP.. Fine to swap-n-go.
maybe we can actually snag an engine builder in this one who has had some experience and clear this up a bit for the constant controversy that has surrounded this topic.
someone who uses severely abuses their car, i.e. road racing or drag racing should chime in here.. Ill be calling vengeance in the morning, as I just ordered arp's and some other goodies from them to see what they have to offer for advice.....
Nine Eight
Last edited by nine-eight; 07-12-2007 at 01:09 AM.
07-12-2007, 12:23 PM
#6
bolts
Originally Posted by N4cer
Which means nothing.
Now sure there are tons of engines out there running further out of balance than this and not rattling peoples teeth when they drive them. BUT, are these the ones that are prematurely wiping the bearings and having oil pressure problems, or worse, blowing up. Lots of variables here.
If you are going to run it 7000+ I think I would be concerned for the longevity the engine.
Basically boils down to, how **** are you and what you expect for engine life.
Me, I'm ****. Ask my wife!
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07-12-2007, 12:56 PM
#11
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I have always been afraid of doing the rod bolts without checking/re-sizing the rods. Last thing I want to do is put some nice Katech rod bolts in my Daily Driver/ Only Trasnportation and have it spin a bearing a couple weeks after install.
I guess since it is my only car, I will just have to live with 6200RPM and the stock weak 1998 rod bolts...
I guess since it is my only car, I will just have to live with 6200RPM and the stock weak 1998 rod bolts...
07-12-2007, 01:06 PM
#13
Originally Posted by helicoil
Depends who you talk to you on that. that equates to 12 grams per crank throw. guarantee many builders shoot way tighter than that when assembling one from scratch, including myself.
Now sure there are tons of engines out there running further out of balance than this and not rattling peoples teeth when they drive them. BUT, are these the ones that are prematurely wiping the bearings and having oil pressure problems, or worse, blowing up. Lots of variables here.
If you are going to run it 7000+ I think I would be concerned for the longevity the engine.
Basically boils down to, how **** are you and what you expect for engine life.
Me, I'm ****. Ask my wife!
Now sure there are tons of engines out there running further out of balance than this and not rattling peoples teeth when they drive them. BUT, are these the ones that are prematurely wiping the bearings and having oil pressure problems, or worse, blowing up. Lots of variables here.
If you are going to run it 7000+ I think I would be concerned for the longevity the engine.
Basically boils down to, how **** are you and what you expect for engine life.
Me, I'm ****. Ask my wife!
Thanks ..
.. I did not have the time or energy to go into an explanation..sweating the details (another term for ****) is what seperates the best from the rest of the heard in building a good engine..
07-12-2007, 01:11 PM
#14
Originally Posted by helicoil
Depends who you talk to you on that. that equates to 12 grams per crank throw. guarantee many builders shoot way tighter than that when assembling one from scratch, including myself.
Now sure there are tons of engines out there running further out of balance than this and not rattling peoples teeth when they drive them. BUT, are these the ones that are prematurely wiping the bearings and having oil pressure problems, or worse, blowing up. Lots of variables here.
If you are going to run it 7000+ I think I would be concerned for the longevity the engine.
Basically boils down to, how **** are you and what you expect for engine life.
Me, I'm ****. Ask my wife!
Now sure there are tons of engines out there running further out of balance than this and not rattling peoples teeth when they drive them. BUT, are these the ones that are prematurely wiping the bearings and having oil pressure problems, or worse, blowing up. Lots of variables here.
If you are going to run it 7000+ I think I would be concerned for the longevity the engine.
Basically boils down to, how **** are you and what you expect for engine life.
Me, I'm ****. Ask my wife!
Playing devils advocate..
And what is the weight difference between stock and Katech's? The whole out of balance thing may not be relivant.
07-12-2007, 01:28 PM
#15
Launching!
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I beleive the katechs are matched to the stock weight and dimensions of the factorys, so no difference there.
as a side note, sex lube with reused stockers is winning the poll by a vast majority... perhaps that wasnt the best alternative to add in the poll
as a side note, sex lube with reused stockers is winning the poll by a vast majority... perhaps that wasnt the best alternative to add in the poll
07-12-2007, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by nine-eight
as a side note, sex lube with reused stockers is winning the poll by a vast majority... perhaps that wasnt the best alternative to add in the poll
07-12-2007, 01:43 PM
#17
Launching!
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well many thanks for your helpful reply I understood where you stand with your first post on this thread. if you have nothing informative or helpful to add, please leave. it seems you know there has been countless threads, if youve read many of them, perhaps you could add what you have learned to the thread?
in any case, there HAVE been many discussions on this topic, and i spent almost four hours reading through posts. so far, all there has been is some info here and some info there, all heresay from backyard mechanics. hopefully if we can get some actual info from hot rod shops or engine builders that would clear things up a bit. I spoke to vengeance racing today and I was told that the cheaper ARP bolts, not the wave loc ones, are just fine for bolt-n-go. coming from the ex GMMG shop I take this in good faith and will have no problem bolting the arp's up. granted, this is in violation of the ARP factory warning so doing so is at your own risk and not any of vengeance's.
Personally, Im thinking that ARP did very few, if any trial tests with the bolts, and are just saying the have them checked to cover their a** in the case of failure with long term use, which is hard (read $$$) to do. so far ive seen ONE story in all fifteen threads ive read on rod bolts where someone has actually had an issue, any numerous others who havent a problem at all with them at repeated, 7 grand track visits. which I dont see to be enough evidence that the arps have to be resized.
I understood where you stand with your first post on this thread. if you have nothing informative or helpful to add, please leave. it seems you know there has been countless threads, if youve read many of them, perhaps you could add what you have learned to the thread?in any case, there HAVE been many discussions on this topic, and i spent almost four hours reading through posts. so far, all there has been is some info here and some info there, all heresay from backyard mechanics. hopefully if we can get some actual info from hot rod shops or engine builders that would clear things up a bit. I spoke to vengeance racing today and I was told that the cheaper ARP bolts, not the wave loc ones, are just fine for bolt-n-go. coming from the ex GMMG shop I take this in good faith and will have no problem bolting the arp's up. granted, this is in violation of the ARP factory warning so doing so is at your own risk and not any of vengeance's.
Personally, Im thinking that ARP did very few, if any trial tests with the bolts, and are just saying the have them checked to cover their a** in the case of failure with long term use, which is hard (read $$$) to do. so far ive seen ONE story in all fifteen threads ive read on rod bolts where someone has actually had an issue, any numerous others who havent a problem at all with them at repeated, 7 grand track visits. which I dont see to be enough evidence that the arps have to be resized.
07-12-2007, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by nine-eight
so far ive seen ONE story in all fifteen threads ive read on rod bolts where someone has actually had an issue, any numerous others who havent a problem at all with them at repeated, 7 grand track visits. which I dont see to be enough evidence that the arps have to be resized.
07-12-2007, 02:12 PM
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yet there are a significant number of people who are firmly standing with katechs being the only way- with no track record whatsoever of failures from arp bolt-n-go, and with some shops saying its fine, I feel its worth digging a bit more to find out why.
katech supporters, I understand the katechs were designed to be a direct replacement. according to some shops, ARP says the same thing, hence the two grades of bolt. what exactly is your reasoning behind the ARP being an issue? the extra bolt weight? the manufacturers warning? i can certainly understand both but has anyone actually measured or seen a failure because of the arps?
katech supporters, I understand the katechs were designed to be a direct replacement. according to some shops, ARP says the same thing, hence the two grades of bolt. what exactly is your reasoning behind the ARP being an issue? the extra bolt weight? the manufacturers warning? i can certainly understand both but has anyone actually measured or seen a failure because of the arps?