Drag Racing Tech - How to hook up a high HP drag radial car discussion

Anyone want to discuss the best proven ways to get a high hp drag radial car down the track? I'd love to discuss what seems to work for the different setups.

* Front spring rates and effect on traction/weight transfer
* Rear spring rates and effect on traction/weight transfer
* Pinion angle
* Tire pressure vs track conditions and temp
* Weight distribution/adding weight to rear over tires
* Rear shock valving and effect on traction/weight transfer
* Front shock valving and effect on traction/weight transfer
* Torque arm adjustments/Control arms
* Travel limiters
* Power management 0 - 400' out
* Converter preferences
* Anti-roll/sway bar and chassis preload

Phil will you be running the 315/60 0r the 325/50?

You have the added advantage of having a 4-link. In my opinion getting the ramp rate on the boost controller is going to be your biggest challenge.

I'm curious to as im going to have to get away from the 29.5/10.5 and go with the 315/60

All of the above and alot of computer logs. I dont know if anyone is going to give out the tricks they are using. I know unless Brady posts them I am not.

Phil will you be running the 315/60 0r the 325/50?

You have the added advantage of having a 4-link. In my opinion getting the ramp rate on the boost controller is going to be your biggest challenge.

I'm curious to as im going to have to get away from the 29.5/10.5 and go with the 315/60

I'm running the 325/50s right now. The ramp rate is going to be one of the big keys and after seeing Wolfe and a couple of the other big guns it appears like they have everything online about 2 seconds on prepped tracks.
Phil

Less than that Phil.

Phil, Like Madman said... getting a big HP radial car down the track is a science and I doubt people will share thier secrets for you... You might want to get in touch with someone like Don Bailey to help you with the tune... the fact that you are working with a 4 link and very low race weight will be to your advantage... I am looking forward to hearing about your car once it's complete! We share 99% of the same hardware and I already went 169MPH @ 3460lbs with an 80mm inlet turbo on my 2 outing... if my powerplant was in your car it would go about 181MPH... with a bigger turbo I believe 190MPH is possible at 2800lbs with 1500RWHP...

Less than that Phil.

ET is made up in the 1st 100ft...

Less than that Phil.

Your right, from looking at tapes boost is online about 60-80' out.

Phil, Like Madman said... getting a big HP radial car down the track is a science and I doubt people will share thier secrets for you... You might want to get in touch with someone like Don Bailey to help you with the tune... the fact that you are working with a 4 link and very low race weight will be to your advantage... I am looking forward to hearing about your car once it's complete! We share 99% of the same hardware and I already went 169MPH @ 3460lbs with an 80mm inlet turbo on my 2 outing... if my powerplant was in your car it would go about 181MPH... with a bigger turbo I believe 190MPH is possible at 2800lbs with 1500RWHP...

Your car is doing very well for the limited track time. I've talked to a handful of people around here and the key seems to be in adding weight ballasts and getting your boost curve down to a science. The suspensions only have so much adjustment, once you get the car to leave and leave straight, pinion angle is -2, its all about the shock settings/boost curve/weight. At the end of the day this is still a hobby, not NHRA.

I'm running the 325/50s right now. The ramp rate is going to be one of the big keys and after seeing Wolfe and a couple of the other big guns it appears like they have everything online about 2 seconds on prepped tracks.
Phil

Phil, are you running the BS3 for boost control or something like an Exile/AMS1000?

You should be able to leave with at least 10lbs of boost. If not the suspension isnt right. From their its all up to what buttons you push.

Phil, are you running the BS3 for boost control or something like an Exile/AMS1000?

Yeah, we're setup with the AMS1000 with C02.

You should be able to leave with at least 10lbs of boost. If not the suspension isnt right. From their its all up to what buttons you push.
:lol: whats this the fast and furious now? :lol:

:lol: whats this the fast and furious now? :lol:

Only if you decide to run the NAWS too....

Let me know how that controller works out, i've been reading they are a PITA to tune.

You should be able to leave with at least 10lbs of boost. If not the suspension isnt right. From their its all up to what buttons you push.

lay down the crackpipe... :engarde:

You can probably launch with that much boost with perfect track conditions, but if you're really competitively racing, those conditions are far and few between..

more like 5# and ramp it over 1.X seconds... ;)

lay down the crackpipe... :engarde:

You can probably launch with that much boost with perfect track conditions, but if you're really competitively racing, those conditions are far and few between..

more like 5# and ramp it over 1.X seconds... ;)

10lbs resulted in instant tire smoke :) About 6-8lbs seems to be the range for us... we still have a long way to go...

Only if you decide to run the NAWS too....

Let me know how that controller works out, i've been reading they are a PITA to tune.

Interesting, everyone I have talked to said they loved them but than again they also tune the cars as well.
Phil

10lbs resulted in instant tire smoke :) About 6-8lbs seems to be the range for us... we still have a long way to go...
I agree. :)

hmm, i'd have to agree with madman. but what do i know :)

Screw it I am goona get my damn car back on the road and see what it does leaving at 10lbs. Should make for a good video. My suspension is pretty basic UMI stuff for now.

On a turbo car you should be able to leave with higher boost. Now on Bradys I do agree with all the torque and instant boost we leave a little softer and ramp quicker.

On a turbo car you should be able to leave with higher boost. Now on Bradys I do agree with all the torque and instant boost we leave a little softer and ramp quicker.

Boost is really only part of the equation... every car makes different power at different boost levels... suspension along with the car's weight play a huge role... along with the obvious things like tire choice and track conditions...

I would say the range is 5-10lbs... I would love to see my car leave with 10lbs... but at close to 3500lbs with alot of the weight on the nose of the car (the bare block and turbo are 300lbs alone!) I don't think it will be possible on an ET Street or DR... at some point I will try a 29.5W and wheelie bars and we'll see what happens!

one thing to remember is a DR is not near as consistant as a bias ply but if you get the DR to hook up and make a good pass it will be faster on the DR....

make a few hits on each adjustment before you rule out that certain combo...

Phill

The AMS1000 is the shit and if I could use it anyone can. I use to leave at 10-11lbs of boost with great results. The challange of running the LSX block (adding 125lbs to the nose) has changed everything still working on it I hope to be able to do it again. Its all trial and error testing testing testing.

Good luck

hmm, i'd have to agree with madman. but what do i know :)
Me too.

I left on 10 lbs even with a 4.10, th400, and 28" et streets.

Heavy cars, light cars, big CID, small CID, stock suspension, 4 link, wheelie bars or no, 1st gear ratios, final drive raios, converter, rpm etc etc.

Only one way to figure it out and it isnt on an internet message board ;)

Heavy cars, light cars, big CID, small CID, stock suspension, 4 link, wheelie bars or no, 1st gear ratios, final drive raios, converter, rpm etc etc.

Only one way to figure it out and it isnt on an internet message board ;)

Threadkiller :gruffy:

Threadkiller :gruffy:

lol, I applaud Phil and his efforts but man thats a lot of info to pack into one thread :)

I hear ya! Too many variables, and honestly boost pressure is the least of our worries, it's more of a "result" of setting the car up..

I hear ya! Too many variables, and honestly boost pressure is the least of our worries, it's more of a "result" of setting the car up..

That goes for any race car setup. There are what, six seven capable DR turbo cars on this site and already they dont agree on something as simple as starting line boost.

I'm not making fun of you or your questions Phil, just dont be too surprised how unhelpful other racers get when you start getting too close and the free info starts drying up :)

what was that old commercial??

"ancient chinese secret"

;)

Hmmmm alot going on in here.....
10psi has netted me my best pass so far and never got to try higher.....
I was wanting to try lower then 18psi in the tires and 14psi on the brake.....
A Certain Red car i thought was leaving on 14psi and not having problems with a 315/60's...

Get her to the track and see what does and doesnt work Phil.....
Quite a few 1/8 mile tracks around here to be able to get 10-12 passes on a friday night.....

Kyle

boost is irrelavent becaues they could be 2 totally different power variances there... or they could be using alot of timing with little boost or alot of boost with little timing....

drop enough boost and timing to where you can hook it then add a few more psi and start from there....

That goes for any race car setup. There are what, six seven capable DR turbo cars on this site and already they dont agree on something as simple as starting line boost.

I'm not making fun of you or your questions Phil, just dont be too surprised how unhelpful other racers get when you start getting too close and the free info starts drying up :)

You know its all good. I've always had the dedication to get setups working well and share my secrets. I could care less sharing info because I don't race professionally for a living and most of the people on this board don't either. Drag racing is still a hobby. Its no secret that the teams with multiple race cars are the ones that can get a handle on the track conditions the fastest. I really do feel that collectively as a group that you can go faster but its whatever. My goal was to get a couple of useful things in chassis setup to try in real life and if I do great. My goal for the car is to go 7.40s-7.60s with the fast DR guys.

You know its all good. I've always had the dedication to get setups working well and share my secrets. I could care less sharing info because I don't race professionally for a living and most of the people on this board don't either. Drag racing is still a hobby. Its no secret that the teams with multiple race cars are the ones that can get a handle on the track conditions the fastest. I really do feel that collectively as a group that you can go faster but its whatever. My goal was to get a couple of useful things in chassis setup to try in real life and if I do great. My goal for the car is to go 7.40s-7.60s with the fast DR guys.

I understand, but maybe a few more specific questions spread out would yield you better results. I'll tell you my whole car down to the last nut and bolt, even send you the tune, alignment, chassis specs, corner weights and whtever if I thought it would do you some good but it wont.

Now if I was running the car in NMCA street race or something and it was in the top five I may not be so forthcoming :)

But I understand what you are doing, but just remember that if you ask 10 different people you may get 10 different answers and all of those answers might be correct so sometimes it can confuse more then help.

Either way mid 7s in any door slammer is by no means easy, I can tell you how to run in the low 7s with a tube chassis N2o car pretty easy but that wont help you much either :cheers:

mid 7's in a tube chassis with BBC and n20 is so last year... just watch for tire shake and keep several bearings on hand.

mid 7's in a tube chassis with BBC and n20 is so last year... just watch for tire shake and keep several bearings on hand.

Its not easy to run 200mph in the 1/4 in a 2600lb anything. Try it and see..

i never spoke of it being easy.... we always run around at 1/8 tracks any ways i dont think we would have hit 200mph even if we did run 1/4 though..... they say life begins at 200mph..... i think that just means you have a second job trying to get there....

158mph is the fastest we went in a 3000lb car in the 1/8...

bleh, its easy to go 158 in the 1/8 lol.

i know... i did it :P


phil is gonna have to make close friends with some guys that have done what he wants to do or just spend alot of time at the track trying random crazy things... looks like a track rental is in your future.

Anyone want to discuss the best proven ways to get a high hp drag radial car down the track? I'd love to discuss what seems to work for the different setups.

* Front spring rates and effect on traction/weight transfer
* Rear spring rates and effect on traction/weight transfer
* Pinion angle
* Tire pressure vs track conditions and temp
* Weight distribution/adding weight to rear over tires
* Rear shock valving and effect on traction/weight transfer
* Front shock valving and effect on traction/weight transfer
* Torque arm adjustments/Control arms
* Travel limiters
* Power management 0 - 400' out
* Converter preferences
* Anti-roll/sway bar and chassis preload


Phil:

One problem is it will always be a little different from car to car. Alot of trial and error. The biggest thing on the small tire and especially on the drag radials it your front to rear weight bias. YOu can't have a nose heavy car on drag radials and get it to work.

Here is for our Mustang
*I believe we have either 150 or 175 lb front springs
*Rear springs are 10x375lb, but remember we are running them in stock location.
*Pinion angle -1 to -1 1/2
*about 14 1/2 on DR
*about 53 to 52 percent on the nose, if we add weight to the rear we hang it off the parachute mount
*don't remember where we had the rear shocks set at.
*Fronts are close to full tight
*Control arms are adjusted to center everything up and set pinion angle
*travel limiter are set about 3 1/2" total travel
*don't know the exact boost controller settings but i can tell you we are full boost in less than 2 sec and leave with a more than 10
*Neal Chance converter
*Sway bar is set per our instructions, and fine tuned based on what the car wants

Phil:

One problem is it will always be a little different from car to car. Alot of trial and error. The biggest thing on the small tire and especially on the drag radials it your front to rear weight bias. YOu can't have a nose heavy car on drag radials and get it to work.

Here is for our Mustang
*I believe we have either 150 or 175 lb front springs
*Rear springs are 10x375lb, but remember we are running them in stock location.
*Pinion angle -1 to -1 1/2
*about 14 1/2 on DR
*about 53 to 52 percent on the nose, if we add weight to the rear we hang it off the parachute mount
*don't remember where we had the rear shocks set at.
*Fronts are close to full tight
*Control arms are adjusted to center everything up and set pinion angle
*travel limiter are set about 3 1/2" total travel
*don't know the exact boost controller settings but i can tell you we are full boost in less than 2 sec and leave with a more than 10
*Neal Chance converter
*Sway bar is set per our instructions, and fine tuned based on what the car wants

Big thumbs up for that post Dan..

Phil:

One problem is it will always be a little different from car to car. Alot of trial and error. The biggest thing on the small tire and especially on the drag radials it your front to rear weight bias. YOu can't have a nose heavy car on drag radials and get it to work.

Here is for our Mustang
*I believe we have either 150 or 175 lb front springs
*Rear springs are 10x375lb, but remember we are running them in stock location.
*Pinion angle -1 to -1 1/2
*about 14 1/2 on DR
*about 53 to 52 percent on the nose, if we add weight to the rear we hang it off the parachute mount
*don't remember where we had the rear shocks set at.
*Fronts are close to full tight
*Control arms are adjusted to center everything up and set pinion angle
*travel limiter are set about 3 1/2" total travel
*don't know the exact boost controller settings but i can tell you we are full boost in less than 2 sec and leave with a more than 10
*Neal Chance converter
*Sway bar is set per our instructions, and fine tuned based on what the car wants

See thats what I am talking about. Thats basically saying, I've gone 7.40s with this basic setup, now come and get some. On a side note I had a crazy idea about adding weight and weight transfer but I'd feel like a dumbass posting it. :cheers:

See thats what I am talking about. Thats basically saying, I've gone 7.40s with this basic setup, now come and get some. On a side note I had a crazy idea about adding weight and weight transfer but I'd feel like a dumbass posting it. :cheers:

I also found a place thats outside of the car to hang some weight bars on cleanly that you cant see, the chute mount under the bumper that I just ordered from Wolfe :)

It's going to take close to 2000HP at the crank to see those kind of numbers... even at under 3000lbs... we are at 1500HP and are worried about the GM factory iron block!

You know its all good. I've always had the dedication to get setups working well and share my secrets. I could care less sharing info because I don't race professionally for a living and most of the people on this board don't either. Drag racing is still a hobby. Its no secret that the teams with multiple race cars are the ones that can get a handle on the track conditions the fastest. I really do feel that collectively as a group that you can go faster but its whatever. My goal was to get a couple of useful things in chassis setup to try in real life and if I do great. My goal for the car is to go 7.40s-7.60s with the fast DR guys.

Our Mustang was at about 3340lbs and on teh 325 on the 7.40 pass. We had alot of basic parts on the car. The front struts are just standard Strange single adjustable struts. The rear shocks are QA1 Stocker Star single adjustable shocks. There was alot of testing & changing to get the car to work as well as it was.

We are hoping that it doesn't take as long this time out to get it running were it should. It's basically a new car again.

I also found a place thats outside of the car to hang some weight bars on cleanly that you cant see, the chute mount under the bumper that I just ordered from Wolfe :)

i took out the rear bumper support and hung about 90 pounds inside the plastic bumper.... its as far back as i can get it and its outside the car... :nod:

i took out the rear bumper support and hung about 90 pounds inside the plastic bumper.... its as far back as i can get it and its outside the car... :nod:

My support is cut out but the wolfe chute mount will be the perfect place to put some tabs on. Out of the way yet easy to get them out.

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It's going to take close to 2000HP at the crank to see those kind of numbers... even at under 3000lbs... we are at 1500HP and are worried about the GM factory iron block!
Aren't you using the LSX block?

1500 hp + 3450 lbs = 169 mph??? Man I don't think I was making that much power and we were only a few mph off of your 1/8 (129 and change compared to 133 you said?) and went 161 on the limiter for the last 1.2 seconds of the pass. I thought the Ohio Boys were going 180 mph and they said they were making roughly 1500-1600 hp. Seems like you are more in the 1100-1200 range at the current boost level which was a lb more than I ran at the same weight. That's a lot of power but 1500 I'm not sure.

I am using a GM LS truck block... I am just saying what the horsepower calculators are saying (crank HP)... honestly, I don't care how much HP it makes as I am not building a dyno queen :nod:

Aren't you using the LSX block?

1500 hp + 3450 lbs = 169 mph??? Man I don't think I was making that much power and we were only a few mph off of your 1/8 (129 and change compared to 133 you said?) and went 161 on the limiter for the last 1.2 seconds of the pass. I thought the Ohio Boys were going 180 mph and they said they were making roughly 1500-1600 hp. Seems like you are more in the 1100-1200 range at the current boost level which was a lb more than I ran at the same weight. That's a lot of power but 1500 I'm not sure.