When to tune yourself?...
08-23-2007, 01:17 AM
#1
TECH Addict
Thread Starter
iTrader: (41)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Jefferson City, MO
Posts: 2,329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When to tune yourself?... I want to know when you guys think its a good idea to get into tuning your car yourself? I am well read in most aspects of these cars, but I am totally new to the tuning lingo, and the tuning processes and factors. BUT that is exactly why I want to get into it. Is it a waste of time for a guy to get into tuning his own ride if its just a cam-only or head/cam car?..Any advice on a good relatively budget and entry level self tuning system? (Not asking whats "best"....but rather whats a good idea for the novice to look into?) Trying to decide if it is at all cost effective to do some of my own tuning, or if I am way better of just going mail-order.
08-23-2007, 08:34 AM
#2
FormerVendor
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Jacksonville Florida
Posts: 668
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just do it!
Im biased towards EFI Live, but since your starting fresh check out the websites from the 2 major competitors and see what you think will be right for you.
Theres probably no "Best" time to start learning, just read, research, and then start tinkering!
Im biased towards EFI Live, but since your starting fresh check out the websites from the 2 major competitors and see what you think will be right for you.
Theres probably no "Best" time to start learning, just read, research, and then start tinkering!
08-23-2007, 08:39 AM
#3
TECH Resident
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Cleveland, Oh
Posts: 810
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I waited for too long to start tuning. I should have bought HP tuners 2 years ago. I had my car "professionally" tuned and trusted that the tuner knew what he was doing. When I looked into it I found a good deal of things weren't right. Since starting about 3 weeks ago, I've increased my MPG, throttle response and overall feel of the car dramatically. I'm not ready to take it to the dyno or the track yet but I'm pretty sure there will be gains there as well.
To quote Nike, "Just do it!". Be prepared to learn a LOT!
To quote Nike, "Just do it!". Be prepared to learn a LOT!
08-23-2007, 08:58 AM
#4
like he just said... just do it!
everyone that does it wants you to think its really hard and complex.
there is a decently sharp inital learning curve... but once you get over this hump... you'll find that you can do everything a "professional" can.. the only diff is because its YOUR car, you can spend the time to do it right.. get it perfect.. meanwhile the "professional" is limited in the time he can spend on your car.
if you're only ever going to be bolton only.. and you're not a hardcore stock internal racer, then its pointless to buy.
but if you buy ANY cam.. even a baby one, its worth it.
if you were going to buy any tune... its worth it.
i find it silly that people dont want to do it.. imagine years ago, if you changed heads, swapped the cam, changed intakes.... and then bolted the stock, emissions jetted Quadrajet on top... never touching it with a screwdriver or anything... and then you set the stock distributor with the stock timing.
that is basicly where you're stuck at right now... if it wasnt "magical EFI".. if it wasnt a black voodoo box, but instead was a physical device you could see, like a carb... alot more people would "tinker" with it.
thats another thing.. people worry "oh if i dont get the fuel just right, im going to blow my motor.." or "if i dont get the timing right, im going to blow it"
now think back to the last 5 decades or so.. people tuned the car by EAR... then stuck a timing light on it. street motors are pretty tough... not to mention, (generally speaking) its really easy to rough in a safe tune, and then you're in the ballpark and you're making small, tiny changes trying to tweak it... these changes wernt even possible until now... you're not going to hurt the motor adding or subtracting a tiny percentage of the fuel trying to get the afr curve or feel just right.. if this was a carb, it would be like having 20 jets, and changing one of them up and down half a size.
and timing... can you make it detonate? yes. of course. but as long as you do go out with the intention of doing something stupid, you wont hurt the motor.
of course, all this gets touchier and harder as you go up... a forced induction motor, or a hardcore race motor will of course be touchier then a mild cammed street motor.. but if you start messing with the tuning stuff now... by the time you're doing a race motor, you'll have the base knowlege you'll need.
you just need to do it.. and suddently you'll realise how easy it is.
everyone that does it wants you to think its really hard and complex.
there is a decently sharp inital learning curve... but once you get over this hump... you'll find that you can do everything a "professional" can.. the only diff is because its YOUR car, you can spend the time to do it right.. get it perfect.. meanwhile the "professional" is limited in the time he can spend on your car.
if you're only ever going to be bolton only.. and you're not a hardcore stock internal racer, then its pointless to buy.
but if you buy ANY cam.. even a baby one, its worth it.
if you were going to buy any tune... its worth it.
i find it silly that people dont want to do it.. imagine years ago, if you changed heads, swapped the cam, changed intakes.... and then bolted the stock, emissions jetted Quadrajet on top... never touching it with a screwdriver or anything... and then you set the stock distributor with the stock timing.
that is basicly where you're stuck at right now... if it wasnt "magical EFI".. if it wasnt a black voodoo box, but instead was a physical device you could see, like a carb... alot more people would "tinker" with it.
thats another thing.. people worry "oh if i dont get the fuel just right, im going to blow my motor.." or "if i dont get the timing right, im going to blow it"
now think back to the last 5 decades or so.. people tuned the car by EAR... then stuck a timing light on it. street motors are pretty tough... not to mention, (generally speaking) its really easy to rough in a safe tune, and then you're in the ballpark and you're making small, tiny changes trying to tweak it... these changes wernt even possible until now... you're not going to hurt the motor adding or subtracting a tiny percentage of the fuel trying to get the afr curve or feel just right.. if this was a carb, it would be like having 20 jets, and changing one of them up and down half a size.
and timing... can you make it detonate? yes. of course. but as long as you do go out with the intention of doing something stupid, you wont hurt the motor.
of course, all this gets touchier and harder as you go up... a forced induction motor, or a hardcore race motor will of course be touchier then a mild cammed street motor.. but if you start messing with the tuning stuff now... by the time you're doing a race motor, you'll have the base knowlege you'll need.
you just need to do it.. and suddently you'll realise how easy it is.
08-23-2007, 12:37 PM
#5
TECH Resident
iTrader: (17)
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: NC - Charlotte area
Posts: 3,747
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
its really not bad, but there is a STEEEEEEP learning curve and sorting through all the bullshit some people will tell you, best thing to do is get out there and do it and see what it does...then you learn how it all works...play with it yourself. problem is like anything with cars, you just need the proper tools 
aka tuning software and wideband and gauge and etc
aka tuning software and wideband and gauge and etc
08-23-2007, 12:54 PM
#6
Just get it. Even though I am pretty limited in my knoledge, I can tell you that some tuning shops don't know the right way to tune. I've seen two tunes (one mine, and one from another car) done by respected professional shops that were no where near close. Just don't forget, you NEED a wideband to tune the car properly.
08-23-2007, 12:58 PM
#7
TECH Addict
Thread Starter
iTrader: (41)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Jefferson City, MO
Posts: 2,329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks guys. Im going to do some research. Any advice on some good reading to understand tuning fundamentals, or at least form some foundation of learning?...
Trending Topics
08-23-2007, 02:11 PM
#8
On The Tree
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Kent, WA
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I ordered and read "Building & Tuning High-Performance Electronic Fuel Injection", By: Ben Strader and "Engine Management: Advanced Tuning" By: Greg Banish. That just got me going. Personally I ordered HP Tuners basic and now wish I had ordered the professional version. I am still on the steep learning curve but feel like it will sort itself out as I go along. There are tons of places on the net were you can find out information also.
08-23-2007, 08:34 PM
#9
Launching!
Originally Posted by Tails
I ordered and read ... "Engine Management: Advanced Tuning" By: Greg Banish.
Next up, buy a wideband to go along with whichever scan tool/tuning package you decide upon and watch the factory calibration in action before trying to outsmart them. GM literally spent millions on the calibration in your car, so you need to make sure that any changes you make to the tune reflect actual changes that you've made to the engine hardware. Enjoy!
08-24-2007, 07:14 AM
#10
TECH Resident
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Cleveland, Oh
Posts: 810
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by turbolx
Excellent choice.
Next up, buy a wideband to go along with whichever scan tool/tuning package you decide upon and watch the factory calibration in action before trying to outsmart them. GM literally spent millions on the calibration in your car, so you need to make sure that any changes you make to the tune reflect actual changes that you've made to the engine hardware. Enjoy!
Next up, buy a wideband to go along with whichever scan tool/tuning package you decide upon and watch the factory calibration in action before trying to outsmart them. GM literally spent millions on the calibration in your car, so you need to make sure that any changes you make to the tune reflect actual changes that you've made to the engine hardware. Enjoy!
+1 get HP tuners Pro (or the EFI live version) that lets you hook up a wideband.
08-24-2007, 08:11 AM
#12
11 Second Club
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: minneapolis,mn
Posts: 891
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was so frustrated with paying for tunes and there was never any drivability Since I started tuning all my cars and now all my customers cars run good on the street.
Really the best way to learn is to start slow with your own car and save new each time. I use ls1edit,hptuners and efilive. I would say efilive is the best and easiest to learn with.
Really the best way to learn is to start slow with your own car and save new each time. I use ls1edit,hptuners and efilive. I would say efilive is the best and easiest to learn with.
08-24-2007, 08:12 AM
#13
Originally Posted by MrDude_1
yea..
and if you didnt, dont worry.. just wire the wideband into the PCM...
and if you didnt, dont worry.. just wire the wideband into the PCM...
MrDude_1, is there a thread discussing how to do this? I currently run an LM-1 and AutoTap for my LT1, and I would really like to synch the signals in Autotap, rather than having 2 separate log files.
Thanks.
Last edited by koolaid_kid; 08-24-2007 at 10:01 AM.
08-24-2007, 10:55 AM
#14
Originally Posted by koolaid_kid
Partial
MrDude_1, is there a thread discussing how to do this? I currently run an LM-1 and AutoTap for my LT1, and I would really like to synch the signals in Autotap, rather than having 2 separate log files.
Thanks.
MrDude_1, is there a thread discussing how to do this? I currently run an LM-1 and AutoTap for my LT1, and I would really like to synch the signals in Autotap, rather than having 2 separate log files.
Thanks.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...&highlight=EIO
i wrote it for HPtuners, but the concept is identical.. you can probably apply the volt to AFR conversion formula too.
08-24-2007, 11:24 AM
#15
Superb. It will take me a while to digest and translate into AutoTap, but I understand the basic concepts that you laid out.
Would you mind if I passed this onto the LT1 community after I get it all working? Those of us with LT1Edit are pretty well fornicated when it comes to performing this functionality.
I will probably make its own thread in the LT1 section, with your original writeup and then my translation.
Thanks again.
Would you mind if I passed this onto the LT1 community after I get it all working? Those of us with LT1Edit are pretty well fornicated when it comes to performing this functionality.
I will probably make its own thread in the LT1 section, with your original writeup and then my translation.
Thanks again.
08-24-2007, 12:20 PM
#16
Originally Posted by koolaid_kid
Superb. It will take me a while to digest and translate into AutoTap, but I understand the basic concepts that you laid out.
Would you mind if I passed this onto the LT1 community after I get it all working? Those of us with LT1Edit are pretty well fornicated when it comes to performing this functionality.
I will probably make its own thread in the LT1 section, with your original writeup and then my translation.
Thanks again.
Would you mind if I passed this onto the LT1 community after I get it all working? Those of us with LT1Edit are pretty well fornicated when it comes to performing this functionality.
I will probably make its own thread in the LT1 section, with your original writeup and then my translation.
Thanks again.
08-26-2007, 01:48 PM
#19
TECH Addict
Thread Starter
iTrader: (41)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Jefferson City, MO
Posts: 2,329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
With something like efilive I notice they give you two vin licenses to start...can the vehicle be of any year/make?...Or does the other vehicle need to be the same year/make?...That is to say....I own a 01 SS and my brother owns a 99 WS6 ..could we go half on the software and both be tuning at the same time?...
08-26-2007, 02:19 PM
#20
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: San Antonio,Texas
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
thanks guyz you guys help me make my choice on just tuning it myself when u guys say wideband i get a lil confused because when do i check the wideband while the car is on and tune at the same time and where do i want the wideband to be at what numbers??? and if im tuning and a friend of mine is driving the car when do i look at the wideband??