View Full Version : No TCM Update until next year?


hexxLS4
09-14-2007, 07:50 AM
I heard it through the grapevine (Taz!) that we're not getting a Diablosport Predator TCM update until next year....I don't know how much truth there is to that, but Taz said he talked to Mike at Diablosport about it and thats what he said. This is :turd:!

06MonteSS
09-14-2007, 07:58 AM
Really????!!!!!!!! For Frickin' Real???!!!!!!

live2ride
09-14-2007, 08:09 AM
Really????!!!!!!!! For Frickin' Real???!!!!!!

If this turns out to be true then the rants from HARM...on Diablo's site were not undeserved. Iím very disappointed. They have a good product thatís simply incomplete for my use anyway. I guess I'm out of patience.

Lew,

Since you and Mike have spoken so often can you confirm this? If so I'm going to ask them to buy it back and I'll just go HPT.

hexxLS4
09-14-2007, 08:12 AM
If so I'm going to ask them to buy it back and I'll just go HPT has anyone else done this yet? I'm *this* close to going HPT as well. I just hope I'm wrong. Sprayjunkie, can you confirm this?

Taz34SS
09-14-2007, 08:20 AM
Mike told me yesterday that they ( Diablosport ) will take care of the units that will sell more and then take care of the other ones. So, if diablosport feels Ford Mustangs will sell more then the 2008 Impala, they will work on that tuner first, and then what ever comes next, and the Impala will come last.
I asked him when the 07 tuner would be out, and he said that it might be 2 months, it could be 6 months but never could give me an honest answer. I then asked him about TCM support and he said at first that its 2 months away, then 6 and then said it could be sometime next year before TCM support is offered and even if the new tuners come out, the TCM support "might" not be in there.

HP Tuners for me. :judge:

djfeezy
09-14-2007, 08:28 AM
I'm so glad I decided not to wait for them to come out with a tuner for the 07's. That's pretty shitty to have you all waiting for this long for the TCM updates.

live2ride
09-14-2007, 08:48 AM
I left a post on Diablo's site asking for them (Mike) to comment specifically on TCM and 06 LS4. I'll advise when I hear from them.

BuffaloSS
09-14-2007, 08:50 AM
The wife will be picking up a laptop soon...so i may be jumping over as well. This is complete BS.

Granted, everyone knew what they were getting to begin with, but this is still sucks.

Taz34SS
09-14-2007, 08:56 AM
Might want to ask Mike what he said at 5:03pm est last night from a guy asking about LS4 Support. Im sure he will try and cover his ass and come up with another story, but you can also ask him about the guy who talked about why should he wait when he can get the HP Tuner and be set to go.

sprayjunkie
09-14-2007, 08:57 AM
Mike told me yesterday that they ( Diablosport ) will take care of the units that will sell more and then take care of the other ones. So, if diablosport feels Ford Mustangs will sell more then the 2008 Impala, they will work on that tuner first, and then what ever comes next, and the Impala will come last.
I asked him when the 07 tuner would be out, and he said that it might be 2 months, it could be 6 months but never could give me an honest answer. I then asked him about TCM support and he said at first that its 2 months away, then 6 and then said it could be sometime next year before TCM support is offered and even if the new tuners come out, the TCM support "might" not be in there.

HP Tuners for me. :judge:
Dude, you have completely twisted my words.
I at no point stated that TCM support may not be until next year.
It is in fact being developed as we speak, just like I have said until I am blue in the face.
I know you called here more than once yesterday, and asked the same question to everyone you got on the phone. Why, well I think I see now....

Also, I did give you nothing but honest answers...what I could not provide was an actual ETA.
Also, you need to understand how this works.
If we develop a tool that supports the PCM used in the 07-08 MCSS, or any of the LS4 cars, we will add support for those vehicles into that tool. (Just like after we developed the U7191, we realized we could support the 06 LS4 cars and we did so).
I am not belittling this segment, as all of our customers are important to us, but we really don't sell that many tuners to the LS4 crowd, especially compared to how many of these cars are on the road. The majority of the U7191 sales are for Vettes and GTOs.

From now on, I will not discuss TCM support here, or on the phone, as apparently you guys are just looking for an excuse to rip us, and I aint playing that.
It will get done, and I will let you know when it is ready.

Thanks
Mike

sprayjunkie
09-14-2007, 09:02 AM
Might want to ask Mike what he said at 5:03pm est last night from a guy asking about LS4 Support. Im sure he will try and cover his ass and come up with another story, but you can also ask him about the guy who talked about why should he wait when he can get the HP Tuner and be set to go.So you basically just admitted here that your intentions were less than honest.
Nice.
Good job man, you have enlightened everyone with your made up statements.
I so didn't need this first thing in the AM.....

I am not trying to cover anything....Damn man, I was brutally honest with you, and this is what I get?
Goodluck with HPtuners.

sprayjunkie
09-14-2007, 09:04 AM
I heard it through the grapevine (Taz!) that we're not getting a Diablosport Predator TCM update until next year....I don't know how much truth there is to that, but Taz said he talked to Mike at Diablosport about it and thats what he said. This is :turd:!Would have been much more appropriate to call me and confirm this, or PM rather than posting a rumor that was obviously not true.

Taz34SS
09-14-2007, 09:19 AM
Atleast I have not been going off telling everyone something is comming from my product, and then keep putting them off. If you would like, I can go over my whole chat with you over the phone. You TOLD ME that you will support cars that sell more then the LS4's first, and then go for the LS4's after that, when others are done, is this not correct? Also, I flat out asked you about TCM support, and you told me that it could be 2 months, maybe 6 months and then you said it would be out with the 07 Tuner... So what is it???? I am really thanking myself for not getting your product and not listening to others about this because your company is full of BULLSHIT...!!!

As for saying I called more then once yesterday, thats kinda funny because I only called once. Want my phone number to check your records.

Mike, you and your company is digging a HUGE hole in the LS4 family and its not something your going to get out of very quickly if at all.

Maybe you should just tell everyone the truth and not just " oh, it will be 30-60 days before we have beta TCM testers ready" Remember that statement??? And now how long has it been? We keep getting the samething, " we are still working on it " Well, im sorry, but how come HP Tuners can offer TCM Support right off the bat and you are still sitting there, with your "GM" tech guy helping you "crack" open the TCM support? Makes no sense at all Mike.

Taz34SS
09-14-2007, 09:21 AM
Would have been much more appropriate to call me and confirm this, or PM rather than posting a rumor that was obviously not true.
You dont even know if your coming or going on this, do you? Just keep digging that hole.... :bs:

hexxLS4
09-14-2007, 09:23 AM
I am not belittling this segment, as all of our customers are important to us, but we really don't sell that many tuners to the LS4 crowd, especially compared to how many of these cars are on the road. The majority of the U7191 sales are for Vettes and GTOs.

This may be true, but it's no reason to shaft an entire community just because you're not making money on it anymore. Where is the ethics in that? Company's expect customer loyalty, well the reverse needs to happen first. Apparently existing customer satisfaction is not as high on Diablosports priority list as making new money.

The problem is, we've been told a couple weeks...now we're hearing a possibility of next year. Regardless of the validity of the "next year" statement...it's a very reasonable assumption based on the history of this tuner.


From now on, I will not discuss TCM support here, or on the phone, as apparently you guys are just looking for an excuse to rip us, and I aint playing that.
It will get done, and I will let you know when it is ready.


Mike, nobody is looking for a reason to rip you or diablosport. People just want their completed product. You've been very helpful to us as in individual employee...and we (I) praise you for that. But at the end of the day, we'd rather be discussing how we tune our transmission rather than WHEN we can.

Try to put yourself on the receiving end of this and you will understand why we are frustrated. I'm sorry Taz misinterpreted your information, but by isolating our community even further, you're just going to get people even more angry. Please don't take any of this personally. We need your help and appreciate all the communication and help YOU have given us. As for your company, they really need to sort out their priorities. They released a beta product and refuse to just get it done and enjoy a repaired reputation.

Taz34SS
09-14-2007, 09:29 AM
2 months or 6 months puts the LS4 guys into next year.

sprayjunkie
09-14-2007, 09:34 AM
OK, again, you twisted my words.
I said it could be 2-6 months for 07-08 support, and then said that TCM support would be available by then, not until then. Pay attention.

hexxLS4
09-14-2007, 09:37 AM
Would have been much more appropriate to call me and confirm this, or PM rather than posting a rumor that was obviously not true.

Mike, you might be right. I didn't realize that this would be so dramatic. However, there was nothing obvious about whether it was true or not. In fact, there is still really no clarity as to whether or not it's true.

At the end of the day, all you needed to do is just clarify the statements. This is a public matter, not a private one.

06 SS
09-14-2007, 09:41 AM
Would have been much more appropriate to call me and confirm this, or PM rather than posting a rumor that was obviously not true.


Like the 'rumor' you kept spreading about TCM support coming to beta testing in 30-60 days or would be released even sooner than that as a finished product (repeated every few weeks/months for the last year or so) or the rumor that first you had a GM expert working on it, then later wrote that management was starting to look at it, or that your company cared about all their customers, or...oh...wait, I do remember you were adament about it being ready at the end of the Summer (presumably 2007). Everyone would much prefer being told that there is no timeline on it, instead of being lied to. When you give a date range, it is assumed (and you know I am right) that there is information available that makes that date range reasonable. If there is no basis to make an ETA guess (like, oh...I don't know, actually having cracked the PCM), then how can an honest company spew made up stuff? It looks like the new owners are trying to squeeze more sales out based on the reputation of Diable before their penny pinching ruins that reputation. Very common in buy-outs. While it is obvious you are a company man (nothing wrong with that), I would bet that you are out of a job within 18 months. Think about how your employers are treating paying customers; how loyal are they going to be to you?

It is very telling that you resort to a personal attack on someone instead of coming up with a realistic timeline or an honest answer about you and your company's inconsistancies when it comes to your claims of support. When the facts are against you, dazzle the crowd with bullshit. Bra-vo! clap clap for the misdirection. Glad to know that you think that your core buyers (and while the LS4 crowd does not buy a lot of your programmers, they do own other vehicles as well that you might care about) are so stupid that they cannot see what your company is doing.

As far as being brutally honest with your discussions with Taz; you do not dispute his assertion that you said it might be 2 months or 6 months until TCM comes out. Only that you never said it might be next year. My calender says 6 months out is well into 2008. When you are reduced to trying to nit-pick the details of what he said, even when, by your own admission, you were being honest and the substance of the statement is completely true based on what you said, it is very clear to everyone that you have finally painted yourself into a corner and are trying to lash out at others simply because they expect you to live up to what you said.

If you don't like the insinuation that you are a liar, perhaps it is time to change the things you say and the way you say them. You know...just to avoid the misconception that you are misleading folks.

hexxLS4
09-14-2007, 09:42 AM
I give up. This is useless.

Taz34SS
09-14-2007, 09:43 AM
OK, again, you twisted my words.
I said it could be 2-6 months for 07-08 support, and then said that TCM support would be available by then, not until then. Pay attention.
By then and until then are the same.

Your looking more like an asshole the more you post. All us LS4 guys want is a product you offered to do what it was going to do, not pay 400 bucks and get something that is only 1/2 the product. You are cutting alot of ties here with your lies and empty promisses.

Taz34SS
09-14-2007, 09:47 AM
Like the 'rumor' you kept spreading about TCM support coming to beta testing in 30-60 days or would be released even sooner than that as a finished product (repeated every few weeks/months for the last year or so) or the rumor that first you had a GM expert working on it, then later wrote that management was starting to look at it, or that your company cared about all their customers, or...oh...wait, I do remember you were adament about it being ready at the end of the Summer (presumably 2007). Everyone would much prefer being told that there is no timeline on it, instead of being lied to. When you give a date range, it is assumed (and you know I am right) that there is information available that makes that date range reasonable. If there is no basis to make an ETA guess (like, oh...I don't know, actually having cracked the PCM), then how can an honest company spew made up stuff? It looks like the new owners are trying to squeeze more sales out based on the reputation of Diable before their penny pinching ruins that reputation. Very common in buy-outs. While it is obvious you are a company man (nothing wrong with that), I would bet that you are out of a job within 18 months. Think about how your employers are treating paying customers; how loyal are they going to be to you?

It is very telling that you resort to a personal attack on someone instead of coming up with a realistic timeline or an honest answer about you and your company's inconsistancies when it comes to your claims of support. When the facts are against you, dazzle the crowd with bullshit. Bra-vo! clap clap for the misdirection. Glad to know that you think that your core buyers (and while the LS4 crowd does not buy a lot of your programmers, they do own other vehicles as well that you might care about) are so stupid that they cannot see what your company is doing.

As far as being brutally honest with your discussions with Taz; you do not dispute his assertion that you said it might be 2 months or 6 months until TCM comes out. Only that you never said it might be next year. My calender says 6 months out is well into 2008. When you are reduced to trying to nit-pick the details of what he said, even when, by your own admission, you were being honest and the substance of the statement is completely true based on what you said, it is very clear to everyone that you have finally painted yourself into a corner and are trying to lash out at others simply because they expect you to live up to what you said.

If you don't like the insinuation that you are a liar, perhaps it is time to change the things you say and the way you say them. You know...just to avoid the misconception that you are misleading folks.
THANK YOU...!!!!! :cheers:

sprayjunkie
09-14-2007, 09:48 AM
As for saying I called more then once yesterday, thats kinda funny because I only called once. Want my phone number to check your records.

Mike, you and your company is digging a HUGE hole in the LS4 family and its not something your going to get out of very quickly if at all.

Maybe you should just tell everyone the truth and not just " oh, it will be 30-60 days before we have beta TCM testers ready" Remember that statement??? And now how long has it been? We keep getting the samething, " we are still working on it " Well, im sorry, but how come HP Tuners can offer TCM Support right off the bat and you are still sitting there, with your "GM" tech guy helping you "crack" open the TCM support? Makes no sense at all Mike.
Must have been some other LS4 guy asking about 07-08 support and TCM support huh? Likely story....

As for why HPtuners can do it....again you have no idea what you are talking about. We can crack anything, no problem...the issue is getting all of the TCM parameters put into simple to use adjustable parameters that can be put into the tool. But again, you have no idea how this works.
HPtuner will only allow you to access the TCM and flash the program from stock, there will not be any parameters that simply allow you to press + or - to raise line pressure or shift points.

Again, good luck with it.

06MonteSS
09-14-2007, 09:49 AM
you do not dispute his assertion that you said it might be 2 months or 6 months until TCM comes out.

actually, he did...

I said it could be 2-6 months for 07-08 support, and then said that TCM support would be available by then, not until then.
meaning that the new tool to support the 07/08 cars could be 2-6 months away, but that TCM support would already be available by then, so those new tools would have it in there already.

sprayjunkie
09-14-2007, 09:52 AM
By then and until then are the same.

Your looking more like an asshole the more you post. All us LS4 guys want is a product you offered to do what it was going to do, not pay 400 bucks and get something that is only 1/2 the product. You are cutting alot of ties here with your lies and empty promisses.By then and until then are the same?
Wow.
No wonder nothing I said is sinking in...

Taz34SS
09-14-2007, 09:56 AM
Must have been some other LS4 guy asking about 07-08 support and TCM support huh? Likely story....

As for why HPtuners can do it....again you have no idea what you are talking about. We can crack anything, no problem...the issue is getting all of the TCM parameters put into simple to use adjustable parameters that can be put into the tool. But again, you have no idea how this works.
HPtuner will only allow you to access the TCM and flash the program from stock, there will not be any parameters that simply allow you to press + or - to raise line pressure or shift points.

Again, good luck with it.
There might not be a + or -, but there is this thing called a Fourm, and Help Desk from HP with Great people there to help you tune your car the way you want it, not a CAN tune. There is so much more you can do with HP vs your product, but I guess thats not sinking in, is it? If you say you can "crack anything" then why dont you just do it and give the guys with the tuners the TCM Support they have been asking for now over well over a year or more??? Oh, BTW, you can change the shift points and line Pressure, but again you would need to know what your doing.

Oh, if you would like the phone number I called from, I will be more then willing to give it to you. Just PM me.

06 SS
09-14-2007, 09:57 AM
OK, again, you twisted my words.
I said it could be 2-6 months for 07-08 support, and then said that TCM support would be available by then, not until then. Pay attention.

Ok, put your money where your mouth is. If this statement is the start of a new honest era at Diablo then so be it. Why don't you either retract or modify this statement now or live with it and have a procedure in place for those who desire to return their Predator for a full refund if there is no TCM by the Ides of March?

If your company is serious about trying to keep their good name, this should be no problem.

Taz34SS
09-14-2007, 10:01 AM
Ok, put your money where your mouth is. If this statement is the start of a new honest era at Diablo then so be it. Why don't you either retract or modify this statement now or live with it and have a procedure in place for those who desire to return their Predator for a full refund if there is no TCM by the Ides of March?

If your company is serious about trying to keep their good name, this should be no problem.
That will take 30-60 days for the beta to come out ;-)

06MonteSS
09-14-2007, 10:07 AM
Wow, you guys are lucky I don't have my Mod priviledges yet - this thread would be locked down, and/or some posts deleted. Some of the stuff that's being said, and the WAY it's being said, is clearly against the forum rules...

Can still be civil and get points across without resorting to the foul-language name-calling, slander, etc etc....

yikes... :eek2:

Taz34SS
09-14-2007, 10:09 AM
Sometimes its the only way to get your point across.

live2ride
09-14-2007, 10:15 AM
Sometimes its the only way to get your point across.

I agree, but is still a sad thing and in the end serves no one well.

06 SS
09-14-2007, 10:29 AM
Live2Ride
Post subject: U7191 TCM Update delayed? Posted: Sep 14, 2007 - 08:45 AM

Joined: 02.17.07
Posts: 10
Good morning,

I wanted to have someone preferably Mike, confirm that the TCM updates for 06 LS4 cars have been postponed until next year.

Please be as direct and specific as possible with the response.

If this is indeed the case how do I get my money back? I've owned it for about a year while waiting on the TCM update and have no desire to continue to wait until next year.

I understand the business need to be "First to Production." I just want a straight up answer and return instructions.

Regards,

Bill






mikel
Post subject: RE: U7191 TCM Update delayed? Posted: Sep 14, 2007 - 09:09 AM

Joined: 01.16.07
Posts: 3076

OK, lets see.....ABSOLUTELY NOT!!

That was NEVER said, and someone has twisted my words to suit their own agenda.

TCM support is coming this year.

_________________
Mike Litsch
Diablosport inc.
561-908-0040
mlitsch< @ >diablosport.com

the above is from the Diablo website forums. It appears we don't even have to wait until March, very clearly states this year and not next year (which obviously means calender year, not a year from now)

hexxLS4
09-14-2007, 10:56 AM
Wow, you guys are lucky I don't have my Mod priviledges yet - this thread would be locked down, and/or some posts deleted. Some of the stuff that's being said, and the WAY it's being said, is clearly against the forum rules...

Can still be civil and get points across without resorting to the foul-language name-calling, slander, etc etc....

yikes... :eek2:

I agree. This has pretty much gotten us nowhere. There are ways to communicate discontent without personally bashing the messenger. This isn't Sparta! The world just doesn't work that way. Actually...unfortunately, the world does work that way....and look at it now....

Taz34SS
09-14-2007, 11:29 AM
How many seconds, minutes, hours, weeks, months years have they said support will be made for the TCM. Don't keep spewing the Sh!t just deliver, "Talk is cheap".
Yup and there talk is really pissing off alot of people. I am willing to bet there will not be any TCM support or 07/08 Monte/Impala/Grand Prix Tuner come the end of the year. Just remember, Mike is the one who told me it could be 2 months, it could be 6 months. :engarde:

SILVER LS4
09-14-2007, 11:32 AM
Just for pot stirring sake, why is it so hard to come out with a tcm tune anyway?? The tcm can easily be accessed ala hptuners, vector....I actually don't know of anybody that offers tunes not beaing able to tune the tcm.

hexxLS4
09-14-2007, 11:40 AM
Just for pot stirring sake, why is it so hard to come out with a tcm tune anyway?? The tcm can easily be accessed ala hptuners, vector....I actually don't know of anybody that offers tunes not beaing able to tune the tcm.


I'm going to take a stab at it and guess that HPTuners is more of a raw way of working with the computers data whereas something like the diablosport needs the interface to be programmed to access those same tables.

For any techies out there, think of it like working with SQL Manager to work with table data, etc, vs having an application written specifically to manipulate that data. HPTuners just gives you everthing you need at a lower level, with the sacrifice of usability by average folks.

It sounds like Diablosport probably knows HOW to access the TCM tables. They're just figuring out what the table values mean and translating that to a usable, friendly interface. You'd think that would be similar from car to car, particularly from LSX to LSX....but, that's not my area of expertise.

I'm also not sure what kind of programming API they have available for the predator...could be some really tedious, time consuming, low level programming language....and they just need the "time" to code it.

jabronie78
09-14-2007, 08:37 PM
Talk about good customer support. I personally think I got ripped off buying this. Half the things listed in the manual this tuner can't do. I'm thinking of putting it on ebay so someone with a GTO or a Vette will get better use out of it. If they don't make this TCM update they will have 0 LS4 users!!!! Not to mention they won't have my business in the future.