What Should I Do!?!?!
09-20-2007, 02:04 PM
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What Should I Do!?!?! ok so here is the deal...i'm getting LTs and an ORY...a tuner recommended i get American Racing or LG headers but after putting money down on a house and paying for school i'm limited to about $500-600 for headers and ORY...he suggested i go for the hooker LTs 1 7/8"...i have a pretty much stock 2000 LS1...all i got is a lid and magnaflow catback...he said the Pacesetter primary collectors suck but that if i wanted i could go with those and sell them later when i get some cash.
Oh yeah he also said i should get any header uncoated...he said they flow worse coated and that when tuned you cant really get all of the power out of them...this guy has his own shop and mainly tunes corvettes...he said he has tuned over 2000 LSX's...anyway the reason why he says i should get them uncoated its becuase the heat may cause detonation...in his experience with coated headers he has had to tune for detonation and thus cannot tune to get the most power out of the headers...any thoughts on this?? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
And one last question...I have been looking into electric cutouts and i think i might just order some soon...with my setup of most likely either Pacesetter or Hooker LTs, ORY and Magnaflow catback is it worth it?? i though about welding 2 electric cutouts to the ORY right after they connect to the LTs...what do you guys think?? would i see any difference in power and/or acceleration??
Oh yeah he also said i should get any header uncoated...he said they flow worse coated and that when tuned you cant really get all of the power out of them...this guy has his own shop and mainly tunes corvettes...he said he has tuned over 2000 LSX's...anyway the reason why he says i should get them uncoated its becuase the heat may cause detonation...in his experience with coated headers he has had to tune for detonation and thus cannot tune to get the most power out of the headers...any thoughts on this?? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
And one last question...I have been looking into electric cutouts and i think i might just order some soon...with my setup of most likely either Pacesetter or Hooker LTs, ORY and Magnaflow catback is it worth it?? i though about welding 2 electric cutouts to the ORY right after they connect to the LTs...what do you guys think?? would i see any difference in power and/or acceleration??
09-20-2007, 02:20 PM
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For a bolt on car you need 1 3/4 NOT 1 7/8 - you will loose a lot down low. I would definately go with coated headers. The coating cuts down significantly on underhood temps. The non-coated will rust sooo fast unless they car is only driven in perfect weather.
09-20-2007, 02:22 PM
#3
I would suggest Pacesetter coated longtubes. Im not sure why the headers would cause detonation if they were coated, never heard that before? Def pick up an ory and I dont think you would need dual cutouts, just a single electric cutout in the I pipe. Duals might net you a few more ponies but they your looking at an additional $250 or so for another electric cutout, plus unless your going large cam, heads, etc I dont think you will really notice a major difference with the dual cutouts over the single one. Hope that helps!
09-20-2007, 05:47 PM
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This is what he says:
One of the biggest things I look for on header design is the type of collectors they use. Most of the normal header company's that have been in the business for years, like to cut corners and use the cheaper style lower flow collectors... Basically all the tubes are cut straight off at the end of the primaries before going into the collector. I'm not a fan of those because the air has no direction after the primaries, and can go any which way it wants. Nicer headers will have a "scavenger spike" inside the collector between the 4 primaries. This helps direct the air flow to the center of the collector... getting it out of the header with the least amount of restriction possible.
This is the kind of collector you'll see on a good quality header like American Racing, or LG. It's a merge collector that shrinks down right after the primaries then goes back up to the size of your exhaust, essentially speeding up the air flow in the exhaust, and in turn causing your car to make more power.
This is just my experience from what I've seen in making headers. Another thing we could go into is coatings, and how much I dislike them on headers Ceramic coated headers always seem to cause detonation. Why? Well everybody jumps on this bandwagon of wanting to keep underhood temps down. Which is great, I love it, whatever you can do to keep underhood temps down is going to help make the motor produce more power. But what we're doing by ceramic coating the headers is we are locking that heat inside the exhaust... Not allowing it to dissipate... This heat now acts as an agent in producing detonation. Almost every car I've ever tuned that had ceramic coated headers, was not able to take as much ignition timing as a car with uncoated stainless steel headers. So the power was greatly reduced because instead of tuning for all out power, I had to tune for detonation. Extra fuel, and less timing... Things that have a great effect on what kinds numbers your car will put down on the dyno, and at the track.
One of the biggest things I look for on header design is the type of collectors they use. Most of the normal header company's that have been in the business for years, like to cut corners and use the cheaper style lower flow collectors... Basically all the tubes are cut straight off at the end of the primaries before going into the collector. I'm not a fan of those because the air has no direction after the primaries, and can go any which way it wants. Nicer headers will have a "scavenger spike" inside the collector between the 4 primaries. This helps direct the air flow to the center of the collector... getting it out of the header with the least amount of restriction possible.
This is the kind of collector you'll see on a good quality header like American Racing, or LG. It's a merge collector that shrinks down right after the primaries then goes back up to the size of your exhaust, essentially speeding up the air flow in the exhaust, and in turn causing your car to make more power.
This is just my experience from what I've seen in making headers. Another thing we could go into is coatings, and how much I dislike them on headers Ceramic coated headers always seem to cause detonation. Why? Well everybody jumps on this bandwagon of wanting to keep underhood temps down. Which is great, I love it, whatever you can do to keep underhood temps down is going to help make the motor produce more power. But what we're doing by ceramic coating the headers is we are locking that heat inside the exhaust... Not allowing it to dissipate... This heat now acts as an agent in producing detonation. Almost every car I've ever tuned that had ceramic coated headers, was not able to take as much ignition timing as a car with uncoated stainless steel headers. So the power was greatly reduced because instead of tuning for all out power, I had to tune for detonation. Extra fuel, and less timing... Things that have a great effect on what kinds numbers your car will put down on the dyno, and at the track.
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09-20-2007, 05:59 PM
#8
Originally Posted by Assassin66
This is what he says:
One of the biggest things I look for on header design is the type of collectors they use. Most of the normal header company's that have been in the business for years, like to cut corners and use the cheaper style lower flow collectors... Basically all the tubes are cut straight off at the end of the primaries before going into the collector. I'm not a fan of those because the air has no direction after the primaries, and can go any which way it wants. Nicer headers will have a "scavenger spike" inside the collector between the 4 primaries. This helps direct the air flow to the center of the collector... getting it out of the header with the least amount of restriction possible.
This is the kind of collector you'll see on a good quality header like American Racing, or LG. It's a merge collector that shrinks down right after the primaries then goes back up to the size of your exhaust, essentially speeding up the air flow in the exhaust, and in turn causing your car to make more power.
This is just my experience from what I've seen in making headers. Another thing we could go into is coatings, and how much I dislike them on headers Ceramic coated headers always seem to cause detonation. Why? Well everybody jumps on this bandwagon of wanting to keep underhood temps down. Which is great, I love it, whatever you can do to keep underhood temps down is going to help make the motor produce more power. But what we're doing by ceramic coating the headers is we are locking that heat inside the exhaust... Not allowing it to dissipate... This heat now acts as an agent in producing detonation. Almost every car I've ever tuned that had ceramic coated headers, was not able to take as much ignition timing as a car with uncoated stainless steel headers. So the power was greatly reduced because instead of tuning for all out power, I had to tune for detonation. Extra fuel, and less timing... Things that have a great effect on what kinds numbers your car will put down on the dyno, and at the track.
One of the biggest things I look for on header design is the type of collectors they use. Most of the normal header company's that have been in the business for years, like to cut corners and use the cheaper style lower flow collectors... Basically all the tubes are cut straight off at the end of the primaries before going into the collector. I'm not a fan of those because the air has no direction after the primaries, and can go any which way it wants. Nicer headers will have a "scavenger spike" inside the collector between the 4 primaries. This helps direct the air flow to the center of the collector... getting it out of the header with the least amount of restriction possible.
This is the kind of collector you'll see on a good quality header like American Racing, or LG. It's a merge collector that shrinks down right after the primaries then goes back up to the size of your exhaust, essentially speeding up the air flow in the exhaust, and in turn causing your car to make more power.
This is just my experience from what I've seen in making headers. Another thing we could go into is coatings, and how much I dislike them on headers Ceramic coated headers always seem to cause detonation. Why? Well everybody jumps on this bandwagon of wanting to keep underhood temps down. Which is great, I love it, whatever you can do to keep underhood temps down is going to help make the motor produce more power. But what we're doing by ceramic coating the headers is we are locking that heat inside the exhaust... Not allowing it to dissipate... This heat now acts as an agent in producing detonation. Almost every car I've ever tuned that had ceramic coated headers, was not able to take as much ignition timing as a car with uncoated stainless steel headers. So the power was greatly reduced because instead of tuning for all out power, I had to tune for detonation. Extra fuel, and less timing... Things that have a great effect on what kinds numbers your car will put down on the dyno, and at the track.
09-20-2007, 06:25 PM
#10
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Personally, I wouldn't even bother buying mods for your car right now. You just got done putting money down on your house and paying for school, and you're obviously low on money since you can't afford good headers. My financial advice to you is to save up and wait until you can afford a good set of headers, not throw something cheap on because you can't afford anything better at the time. I think getting headers right now when you're low on money after spending a bundle is putting your priorities completely out of order.
However, if you don't like my advice (which I expect you won't
), I would get a set of the XS stainless headers. I wouldn't put non-stainless headers on my car, so I'd NEVER buy Pacesetters. Even though the XS headers are not the best headers on the market, they're above and beyond better than the Pacesetters, will last a lot longer, will never rust, will show the same if not more power and are about the same price.
However, if you don't like my advice (which I expect you won't
), I would get a set of the XS stainless headers. I wouldn't put non-stainless headers on my car, so I'd NEVER buy Pacesetters. Even though the XS headers are not the best headers on the market, they're above and beyond better than the Pacesetters, will last a lot longer, will never rust, will show the same if not more power and are about the same price.
09-20-2007, 06:26 PM
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anyone have a rough estimate as to how much power i will be putting to the wheels with the Pacesetters, ORY, magnaflow catback and Lid?? and how much more power would i gain when i open the cutout?? 4-5rwhp maybe??
09-20-2007, 06:30 PM
#12
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Originally Posted by Assassin66
anyone have a rough estimate as to how much power i will be putting to the wheels with the Pacesetters, ORY, magnaflow catback and Lid?? and how much more power would i gain when i open the cutout?? 4-5rwhp maybe??
09-20-2007, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369
Personally, I wouldn't even bother buying mods for your car right now. You just got done putting money down on your house and paying for school, and you're obviously low on money since you can't afford good headers. My financial advice to you is to save up and wait until you can afford a good set of headers, not throw something cheap on because you can't afford anything better at the time. I think getting headers right now when you're low on money after spending a bundle is putting your priorities completely out of order.
However, if you don't like my advice (which I expect you won't ), I would get a set of the XS stainless headers. I wouldn't put non-stainless headers on my car, so I'd NEVER buy Pacesetters. Even though the XS headers are not the best headers on the market, they're above and beyond better than the Pacesetters, will last a lot longer, will never rust, will show the same if not more power and are about the same price.
However, if you don't like my advice (which I expect you won't
), I would get a set of the XS stainless headers. I wouldn't put non-stainless headers on my car, so I'd NEVER buy Pacesetters. Even though the XS headers are not the best headers on the market, they're above and beyond better than the Pacesetters, will last a lot longer, will never rust, will show the same if not more power and are about the same price.
09-20-2007, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369
Something like that, but you'll probably lose power overall with an open cutout. You'll probably run a better time without a cutout even on your car. I ran back to back 13.60's on a hot summer's night with just a lid and my Corsa catback, but after adding an aluminum driveshaft, the Fast Toys Ram Air kit and running an open cutout on a significantly cooler night, I couldn't beat a 13.79. The open cutout KILLED my ET because while you may gain a few rwhp up top, overall, you lose a lot under the curve.
09-20-2007, 07:17 PM
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i did a google search on the XS headers ChocoTaco recommended and all i could find was ricer forums who are running these...i looked on ebay and just the headers alone are close to $800 from some dude in england...anyone actually heard of these XS headers?? If so would you agree with ChocoTaco that might even be better?? i don't plan on dishing out $800...in that case i would just go QTP.
09-20-2007, 07:26 PM
#16
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Originally Posted by Assassin66
so are cutouts worthless then?? i will be taking my Z to the track soon...and i do the occassional street race...so should i just go ahead and ditch the cutout?
Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 09-20-2007 at 07:34 PM.
09-20-2007, 07:30 PM
#17
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Originally Posted by Assassin66
i did a google search on the XS headers ChocoTaco recommended and all i could find was ricer forums who are running these...i looked on ebay and just the headers alone are close to $800 from some dude in england...anyone actually heard of these XS headers?? If so would you agree with ChocoTaco that might even be better?? i don't plan on dishing out $800...in that case i would just go QTP.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...ight=stainless
black2002ws6 is a sponsor and sells both the y-pipe and race version of the headers for $550 SHIPPED. They're VERY NICE for the money, ABOVE AND BEYOND the quality of Pacesetters. They're stainless and will last a lifetime assuming the welds hold up. This is the route I'd go if money is tight.
However, it's also important to note that MPH Motorsports is running a sale on QTP headers. QTP's are one of the best if not the best header on the market (I run them), and they're on sale for $685. Now, this is a very good deal, but it's a lot more money than what you alloted to spend, plus their y-pipe doesn't fit well and a custom y-pipe is really necessary IMO.
In case you decide to spring for QTP's, here's the link:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/sponsor-sales-specials/780773-quick-time-performance-headers-y-pipe-sale.html
If not, I strongly recommend the XS over the Pacesetters since the quality is substantially higher for about the same price.
I didn't want to sound like a jerk or anything with my "financial advice" up top
Hey, I'm just a 21 year old know-nothing know-it-all myself. I just get bothered when I see people dump their life savings into these quickly depreciating cars. I guess what I'm saying is you sound like a young guy getting started with life, and having a fast car is cool and all, but having a fast car isn't so cool if that's what you're living in
09-20-2007, 07:50 PM
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cool...thanks man...by the way i'm only 22...so i guess we're kind of on the same boat...financially i'm stable...my girl just graduated from law school and now we just bought the house...so i know we'll be well off lol...only reason i stated i was short on cash was becuase people immediately start throwing out names likt American Racing and LG...headers that are upward of 1K...i'm not willing to spend that much for an extra 5-6 rwhp...but anyway im just looking to make my car run faster than it is right now and sound pretty mean doing it...thanks for the links by the way.
09-20-2007, 08:29 PM
#19
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Originally Posted by Assassin66
cool...thanks man...by the way i'm only 22...so i guess we're kind of on the same boat...financially i'm stable...my girl just graduated from law school and now we just bought the house...so i know we'll be well off lol...only reason i stated i was short on cash was becuase people immediately start throwing out names likt American Racing and LG...headers that are upward of 1K...i'm not willing to spend that much for an extra 5-6 rwhp...but anyway im just looking to make my car run faster than it is right now and sound pretty mean doing it...thanks for the links by the way.
