karthalin

For those of you that dont know me, I have a 2005 GTO with an APS TT system. Pushing 540rwhp/530tq. I have BMR upgraded driveline/axle stubs/cv joints and a slew of other mods. I am mainly drag racing at the moment and launch off of Weld Pro-Stars and M/T ET Streets. The best 60' time I have is 1.79, leading to a 11.568 1/4

Now, I am very interested in making launching slightly easier. I am extremely new to drag racing and I am having a hard time raising the RPMs to 5k to get a good launch and watching the other cars staging and watching my lights go down. I get consistent .4 R/Ts, and occasional .090

I want consitent sub .1 R/Ts, and I hear a 2-step is the way to go, especially for turbo charged cars. Plus it will help me build boost off the line.

My little research has shown that Synergy has made a two-step for our cars and I have read rumors that Harlan was at last trying to develop one. Are there any other two-steps available or being developed? Do you think an average mechanic can do a good install, or should I drop it off at my tuners shop and get it done right? Seems like this is a pretty important aspect that I dont want to screw up. Plus I would like to tune out most (if not all) of the backfiring that is assocaited with a two-step at the line, so I am leaning towards dropping the car off at TTi.

Does anyone have one installed on their Goat? Any help/response is appreciated

Jason Haines @ LPE

We (Lingenfelter Performance Engineering) have been testing our own 2-step for some time now. We will be releasing them to the public this week (probably Monday the 24th). Cost will be $249.95. Plug and play design - no wire cutting needed.

BTW - our 2-step has been tested an several different model vehicles, including the GTO.


Jason Haines

karthalin

You mean to tell me that the folks at Lingenfelter, the same folks who make other QUALITY, shop tested approved upgrades and has been in the business for years so you can trust them and have provem themselves time and time again to have super bad *** and cool mods are about to release a 2-step for the Goat? Damn, I got real lucky by starting to look for one now

Do you have any videos of any car running a Lingenfelter 2-step? I'd like to hear how they backfire. I heard the synergy one, and I didnt like it. It was either the design or the install. Regardless, I am trying to minimize the backfire. I know I cant get rid of it, but try to make it minimal

Nmbr1GMfan

iTrader: (1)

Jason, could you elaborate on the plug n play design?

Jason Haines @ LPE

What I meant by that is that the connectors for the coil pack connections are all plug and play. You disconnect the coil pack connectors on each bank, plug the coil pack connector into one side of our harness and plug the other side of the GM harness into our harness as well (male and female matching connectors). The only wiring required is for how you want to trigger the 2-step/launch controller. The controller can be triggered by a ground or by a +12 volt source (our box has both inputs) or you can put a momentary switch between the two wires and use the momentary switch to trigger the launch controller.

If you want to use the launch controller as an rpm limiter, then you just connect the ground trigger wire to the +12 volt trigger wire and the controller is always active and it triggers whenever the rpm point is reached.

I will try and get some pictures posted somewhere and link to them. We have them listed in our eBay store now with some pictures. They should be on our web site with more pictures soon as well. Some have asked for video so I will look into getting some video of the 2-step being triggered).

Jason

Jason Haines @ LPE

I don't have any video but I will try and get some from one of the test vehicle customers. If not, I might be able to get video from running it on the engine dyno. I will see what I can come up with.

It is going to backfire some - you are cutting off and re-enabling spark on a per cylinder basis and not cutting fuel. Ours should be as smooth or smoother than anyone elses but it is still going to backfire. You are basically inducing misfire so it isn't the smoothest thing in the world.


Jason

karthalin

Do you have a link do the store?

**EDIT**

I think I found it
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/LPE-A...mZ150164662539

Jason Haines @ LPE

That is the correct link. I didn't post a link - I wasn't sure what I was allowed to do in terms of product links etc. since I am an employee of the company (LS1Tech rules etc.).

Jason

karthalin

Understood.

Can you post some pics of it installed and a brief description of how it works? I understand the wiring aspect, but how does it work in practice?

For example, I want to launch at 4000RPM. So I get into the waterbox, push brake in, line lock on, 2nd gear, dump clutch, burnout, manually turn line lock off (via switch). Then before I stage I turn on the 2-step (via switch). Stage, clutch in, floor gas pedal, listen to backfiring as the RPMs bounce between 3900 and 4000, light goes green I dump clutch AND switch 2-step off, or does it go off automatically when I raise the clutch?

Hmm... mabye I just need someone to explain to me how to actually use a 2-step

Fastbird93

iTrader: (10)

Hmmm.......this is just what I need and it looks to be a simple enough install. Already ordered and paid! Thank you search feature!!!!

IIRC the 2-step should only be active in neutral/non-rolling.....it shouldn't remain active once the car is moving under load with the clutch out, so you shouldn't have to turn it off. At least that's the way it works in the 93 f-Body tunes I've seen. If this is incorrect I apologize, but having to turn it off would be a bit much given the quickness which you'd have to hit the switch upon launch.

Jason Haines @ LPE

I will try to post some pictures later today. When I have the installation instructions done (I am the hold up on shipping now), I will post a link to the PDF file location too.

What you have to manually switch on/off depends on how you wire the 2-step.

If you use a momentary switch (on the shifter or steering wheel etc.), then you are manually controlling when the 2-step is on.

You can also connect the 2-step to a line lock or trans brake switch and then the 2-step is activated when they are activated and the 2-step deactivates when they deactivate.

You could use a clutch switch such that when ever the clutch is pressed in, the 2-step is active. You could put a toggle switch in that wire as well so that you can turn off the 2-step.

If your burnout rpm is the same or lower than the launch rpm, then you can have the 2-step active during the burn-out.

Hopefully the instructions will answer some of these questions as well although I am sure I will go through several versions of the instructions, adding additional information (so once I have them posted the more feedback to me the better).

Jason

karthalin

EXCELLENT to know that there are multiple options out there, thank you for explaining that Jason.

That is how I want to wire it. Does your instructions have a good walkthrough to explain how to wire this in with the clutch switch? Do I need to purchase additional items to wire this up, such as a clutch switch and a different toggle switch that are not included with the kit? Does Lingenfelter have these additional items, or should I make may down to Radioshack and Autozone?

Thanx!

Fastbird93

iTrader: (10)

This response has me wondering now. If you're using the 2-step on the launch and are using a momentary switch for activation, then you would have to turn that switch off immediately upon launch even though the car is now under load...........any chance of wiring it in via the VSS so that if there is a speed signal being sent that it will be deactivated (I.E. active at a stop only)??? I want to wire mine in via a momentary switch, but think that's going to be a difficult thing to do launching and shutting that off that fast.

If you went through the clutch switch on it, then if you're banging gears down the track wouldn't it try to hold it down to the set points between shifts???

karthalin

I believe Jason was just spouting out the different options, some are feasable and some are not. From reading the description of this 2-step I do not think it is any different than other 2-steps in how its actually used. Its obviously designed differently, but it should work just the same as every other 2-step. I just do not know how a 2-step works in practice.

Nmbr1GMfan

iTrader: (1)

Hey guys just to elaborate a bit here. The 2 step needs a 12 switched power to activate "launch controll" (2-step). If you use a line lock (as I do) you just connect the 12v 2-step wire to your line locks 12v activation button. Mine is on the shifter so as I stage I hold the button and release just as I begin to let the clutch out. I usually will gently use the line lock to stage the car anyhow so I wont roll thru the beams.

Jason Haines @ LPE

If you use a momentary switch you would have to time letting go the switch at the same time you let go the clutch (or the brake on an AT car) so yes this could be a problem although I know some people use it that way.

If you are using the clutch on the shifts then you will also be letting off the gas during the shifts so I am not sure how much of an issue cutting the cylinders on the shifts would be. The VSS idea has me thinking though. We have another electronic box the we designed that takes the frequency output from the PCM and turns it into a 0-5 volt signal for input into boost controllers and other devices that can't read the GM speed sensor signal. I will have to do some looking into if we could somehow use this, at some adjustable cut-off point to disable the two step. Then once you are moving the clutch switch wouldn't trigger the 2-step/launch controller. Maybe we need an add on box that looks at the clutch switch and VSS for the MT applications that don't have line locks etc.

Connecting to the clutch switch might also cause some lag off the line depending on how high up in the clutch travel the clutch switch engages/disengages. Maybe a secondary adjustable clutch switch dedicated to the 2-step/launch controller would be better so you could adjust when it triggers without impacting the OEM clutch switch operation.

Just some ideas. As someone else mentioned, I think most of these things apply to any 2-step trigger (not just LS engine either).

BTW - I keep using 2-step and launch controller to describe our product. I am using the term 2-step to describe the function many people associate with the 2-step rpm limiters for launch control. Our device isn't really a 2-step and neither are most of the other products. A true 2-step has two steps or two rpm limits, a low rpm for the launch and then a high rpm as the engine rpm limiter. Our devices is really a 1-step, it only has one rpm limit. If you use our device as a launch rpm limiter then you need to use something else (like the ECM/PCM) as the engine

Jason

Jason Haines @ LPE

Here are pictures one of our beta test customers sent of the install on his GTO (note the launch controller is an early one without the decal). This install just uses a momentary switch to enable the secondary rpm limit at the line.

The launch controller was mounted next to the ECU on the driver side (US customer, not Australia). The customer routed the wires along the firewall and then had the two trigger wires go through the firewall at an existing location on the passenger side in the upper left corner of the footwell.

Hopefully these are of some use.


Jason

Jason Haines @ LPE

The initial instructions don't have descriptions for the activation installation. You can probably connect to the production clutch switch but I think it would be better to use a different switch so you could adjust where in the travel it triggers without impacting the factory switch. I don't think we have the correct switch to use for that in stock but we could probably get them (although we would probably go to Radioshack or one of the electronics parts catalog companies). Same thing goes for the toggle switch.

If you feel comfortable selecting the switches yourself at Radioshack etc., I would recommend doing that since we haven't put together a kit for that side of the installation and you may be more likely to find a combination of parts you like. Also, if we are getting them from the same places and we have to mark it up as well, it is just going to cost you more.

Jason

Fastbird93

iTrader: (10)

My only concern about tapping the VSS is the sensitivity of the speedo/odometer to voltage changes. I had to do TONS of testing on my 93 T/A (granted, it's obviously not the same, but the issue could very easily still pop up) to get the cleanest signal to the speedo as I could. I'd be worried that on my Vette that any signal change would whack out the speedo. But, if you had a 0-5v conversion box.....that would probably be pretty easy to scale, given that you could just set 0v to 0 MPH and scale up at whatever rate necessary, then set the .1v or whatever to disengage the launch control.

I may just do the momentary switch and try to get the timing down. I'm thinking that upon initial clutch release the RPM's are going to take a drop at which case I'd have to be right on it, and could probably get away with launching without my hand on the shifter for that short time.

Jason Haines @ LPE

The speedometer output to the dash from the ECM and PCM on most GM vehicles for the last 10 to 12 years has been a frequency output with a 4000 pulse per mile rate. This signal is fairly easy to tap into without impacting the output/reading of the speedometer or the odometer.

We choose to use the output from the PCM/ECM since it is already calibrated to the correct pulse rate for the tires, gears etc. (assuming the car's speedometer is calibrated correctly). This allows us to easily scale the 0-5 volt output to a 0 to 250 mph scale (or something similar). For this it might even be easier to leave it in pulse form for the module to go off of and then just have some kind of adjustment dial for the speed that relates to the frequency internally.

Jason