koolaid_kid

iTrader: (21)

I am looking at a set of 1.6 Roller Rockers to put on my stock engine. Stock cam, springs, valves and pistons. Will the stock springs work O.K. with these rockers? I do not over rev the engine. I do have the turbo, but it has no effect on the springs/cam etc.
Thanks.

RedLT4Mike

iTrader: (4)

You REALLY need to upgrade before you kill your engine by cutting
corners with your valvetrain... even WITHOUT the rockers.

koolaid_kid

iTrader: (21)

Please explain, Mike. Upgrade has so many possibilities.
Thanks.

koolaid_kid

iTrader: (21)

Also, please do not misunderstand my question. I will buy the dual springs if they are needed; hence the question. But I see no use in doing so if they are not.
Thanks again.
p.s. The motor only has 38k miles on it, mostly easy ones. Overall, it is in excellent shape. I am not talking about a beater with 170k miles on it.
The motor will become forged when it nears the point of requiring an overhaul. But with only 320/400 rwhp on it (dual boost, normally on low boost just because), it is not really being stressed from everything that I read on the forum.

CRAZZ28

iTrader: (13)

It sounds like you should be ok running the stock valve springs with that low of miles

GMRACER13

iTrader: (1)

For what it's worth I ran 1.6 rockers for over a year on the stock (140,000 miles) springs and never had a problem. The only reason I eventually changed them was because I put a cam in.

koolaid_kid

iTrader: (21)

Thanks guys. If/when I cam it, the springs will go in, for sure. I have never gone cheap on the car, and never will. (I bought it new in Feb. 97.) When the engine is rebuilt, it will certainly be cammed, new springs, performance head work, turbo pistons, etc. Of course, by that time it will already have the supporting cast of a built transmission and a new rear end.
If anyone else wishes to chime in, I welcome your advice/experiences.

97blackz28

iTrader: (6)

atleast get the lt4 springs if you are going to upgrade rockers. they are like 30 bucks for the set, cheap insurance if you ask me. you're engine may be ok, but who knows the springs are not the best. but its up to you.

96lt1m6

iTrader: (31)

just remember no matter the mileage our springs are old.
they came from GM with 85lbs.i just checked mine and they are 71-80 lbs with stock cam and valvetrain(i have not bolted on my new heads that have
new (performance springs with 130lbs).....
do yourself a favor and put new springs on,7/16 screw-in studs,gm plates,hard pushrods and a set of NSA 7/16 1.6 roller rockers.

3pnt4maro

iTrader: (2)

I would definitely upgrade the valve train if your gonna be boosting it..I know you havent so far and its not a requirement but I definitely think you would benefit from it

koolaid_kid

iTrader: (21)

Metal fatigue is certainly a valid point. I checked on the LT4 springs, they are rated a 100 lb. Certainly would function as a short term fix, were I to choose them.
I also found other brands, of course. I tend to lean to dual springs if I decide to upgrade them, since I can then use them on the new engine, rather than throwing them away.
My biggest concern at the onset was the lift the new(ish) rockers are going to provide. I know that one of the parameters of the springs is the lift they support, and that spring bind could result if they did not. I was not sure if the stock springs supported the extra lift. But you have certainly raised other valid points that make me lean to going ahead and upgrading now.

Rowdy94

iTrader: (13)

I'm in the same boat as you. I'm wanting to do a cam soon, but I made the decision that nothing gets installed valvetrain-wise until I do the whole thing. I say do it once, do it right.

On the other hand, you SHOULD be O.K. if you feel the need to just do rockers.

Formula_LT1

iTrader: (2)

Question?
Wouldn't going from 1.5 rockers to 1.6's increase the lift on the cam, thus causing the valve springs to float?
IDK, I'm just asking.

riodealz28

all i know is that when i installed my 1.6 roller rockers with stock springs and stock cam i reved my motor to 6400rpms and bam my oil pressure went to 0 oil spilled from 1 side of the cover and my car sounded like it had a cam missing bad then when they opend up my motor it turned out that the crank got twisted and i messed up the rods BAD

koolaid_kid

iTrader: (21)

I've done more research on the LT4. It had 1.6 roller rockers, so the valve springs from that engine should suit my needs fine. I would like to know where I can get them for $30, though. I went to gmpartsdirect, and they appear to be $58 for a set (not that big of a deal). But I'm not totally sure that I was looking at the right part. I looked at 96 vette, they had 2 different springs, for 2 different prices. The manual was cheaper, the auto was more expensive. I would sure like to know what to buy, the price difference is not that important, I just want to get the correct part.
And yes, Formula_LT1, the intent of the 1.6 rr (versus 1.5) is to increase lift. It was considered an easy performance mod back in the days of the LT1 production cars.

koolaid_kid

iTrader: (21)

Bummer, riodealz28.
I am glad that my rev limiter won't let me rev that high.
Did your rockers hit the valve covers?

riodealz28

nope my rockers stayed on but its that i had to rev that much cuz i street race alot and i dont like trowing to 4th at 110 so if i rev it till 6400 with 373's itll give me till 120mph or so but the weired part that only in that gear itll keep pulling to the 6400 rpm's cuz in a similar race if i shifted at the factory settings wich is around 5900 rpm's the guy would beat me but if i shifted at 6400 rpms i would win but remember i would only give it 6400 rpms on the 3rd to 4th gear shift

to tell u the truth i dont know if the rockers really fuckt up my car or not but that was the most recent mod and that was my first race with that mod and boom went the motor lol but im getting it rebult and camed so itll be out by this comming month

Boodyrider

iTrader: (2)

12551483 is the pn for LT4 springs, about 60 bucks. Only good to about .525 lift, AT THE VALVE, meaning, account for rocker ratio!

There are lots of good valvesprings available for higher lift up to about .575 or so, but they can get pricey... and they are overkill if you are staying under .525 lift - in that case, the LT4 springs are a great deal.

However, if you may ultimately go with a serious cam (say 575+ lift and steep ramps like an XFI), I strongly suggest the Patriot Gold dual springs; good for .650+ lift at suggested intalled height), and include springs, titanium retainers, seats, and locks for around 260. They ARE available for LT1, I got mine from TRTTurbo, but can be hard to find unless you call Patriot direct. PRC was also supposed to have an LT1 version of their similar setup, but were not available when I giot mine. They do require a valve with .250 tip if I remember correctly; some aftermarket valves, like my Manleys, have a .200 tip and require -.050 locks to clear the roller tips... which means high seat pressures because the installed height can't be optimal without machining the seats down an extra .050 to compensate. In other words, these are GREAT springs with a .250 tip valve, but with a .200 tip valve they need some effort to make work best. (Seat pressure is nearly 200 lbs if the -.050 locks are used with a .200 tip valve and you do NOT machine the seats, as well as losing .050 of their lift capacity)

96lt1m6

iTrader: (31)

another thing you should realize when using the Lt4 spring kit is this,the spring is designed to have the lightweight,sodium filled valves.those valves are something like 58.00 ea. i do not know the exact weight difference however i did compare them by holding them!
personally i WILL NEVER use the hot cam springs on anything!
the patriot drop in spring will save you a ton of aggrivation in the long run.

koolaid_kid

iTrader: (21)

Paul, you are right. The Patriots for the LT1 are going to be difficult to find.
AFA lift, the LT4 cam has more lift than the LT1 (447 I, .459 E vs. .476 I, .479 E), and has 1.6 rockers, so I should be O.K. in that regard
96LT1M6, the differences in weight are thus:
(LT1 vs. LS1 grams)
I - 95 vs. 75
E - 110 vs. 85
I admit being confused why the weight of the valve would have any bearing on the action of the spring. But I am not an ME, so I cannot claim to be an expert in this area, especially since this is a dynamics physics issue (ME area of expertise).
The LT4 springs do have slightly more force, 85 lbs. seated vs. 100 lbs. seated.
Price certainly can become an issue short term, $60 vs. ~$260-300 for true high lift springs, which are admittedly overkill at this juncture.

I appreciate everyone's input in this discussion, it has been very enlightening. This is my first venture into the internals of the engine, and I have learned quite a lot. And hopefully will continue to learn as I go forward (as opposed to going backward?) My old manager used to make that statement, "going forward", and I always wondered why anyone would consider going backward.