Automotive Careers - 18 years old... and college SUCKS!

Thats basically it, i am 18 years old, and i live in NY.
I am going to a college called Oneonta State, and the college is all book work, and it bores me the shit out of me. Its all book work, and i have never been good with book work.
Since i was about 9 i always was intrested in cars, and today i would like to go and pick up some school that can be involved with the performance field of cars.
A couple of schools that i have looked into are RANKEN tech. college, FULL SPEED Sam, MIT, and ITT. I have talked with them many times about what they have to offer, and its amazing, i love everything about them and teh distance doesnt matter. Heres the down side, i have an odd feeling that if i do something like that i will just be changing oil at honda or something like that kind of low (no effence), but i am trying to aim soooo much higher.
What i am looking for is i want to be the person who designs the parts for any car, like designing a piston or anyother part for that matter, including an entire car.
I used to be hands on all the time, and now that i am going to a "book working college" i have no time for anything. I used to install stereo, and do minor exhaust work, welding, and fabing brackets. I have no time for that anymore, and thats what i am good at. So does anybody have any ideas on colleges?
Its not like i am not looking, i am along with my parents and they hired a privet guidance counselor to help me out also.
On oct. 24-25 i am going to Skip Barber Racing School in Connecticut for a day or so to see how i do on the track, maybe that could be something that i am good at and just dont know yet. I will find out soon enought.

I am trying every possibilty, and so far i am coming up empty handed. I am almost thinking about calling GM and asking who designed the firebirds and see if i can get a hold of him to see where he got started. Or call Diamond and see who designs there pistons. (Pistons i am just using as an example)

If you have anyideas, please share them with me i really could use some help!

Thank You!

You are on the right track by contacting the companies directly to see what it is they are looking for to qualify for what you want to do.

Some offer paid training to become certified, it never hurts to google up the top dawgs, compose a one page stick-to-the facts letter which will most likely get a response. Also send a letter to the human resource departments of companies you are interested in, they can also give you a good idea of what qualifications they look for when hiring.

Don't waste money being a career college student - get out there and rattle some cages :nod:

You know, there's really no argument for doing college when you know what you want, and how to go about achieving it sans degree. A degree now-a-days means next to nothing. Seriously. I think of my current majors(mech engr. and physics) as merely certificates of bullshitting.

To design the parts, or at least critical parts, you'll need a engr. degree to back up your choices. That or start making parts and experiment. Find a niche. Go and find how things work, but mostly experiment.

What gearhed said, go out there and bust your hump and get after it! Good luck.

Don't waste money being a career college student - get out there and rattle some cages :nod:Damn good advice.

if you want to design engine parts you going to need a engineering degree, which yes, has a a lot of book work.

If you don't have a education you will most likely be working at a dealership for the rest of your life.

I fix airplanes for a living, about to go work for CAT I think.... a few friends fix cars.

Unless you want to be on the floor all your life untill you retire get a degree. It will make going to management much easier. When you are getting close to retire time you will not want to be still on the floor turning wrenches.

You can take the easy way out now and regret it later or take the hard route now and thank me later.


Its not going to take me much to get my ASE on Deisel's and Automotive, once I do that Ill be able to work on pretty much anything with wheels. Oh and I am a class away from my degree.

I also plan to take a few chassis building classes.

Thinking about opening my own shop.

Its also taken me like 5 years to get me assosiates, part of it do to a nasty learning disability in math. Don't wimp out.

college is for people that need that crutch. get out their and make it happen for yourself! you make money working for yourself not someone else. you have your own finanacial interest in mind at all times. With all that being said, you have to bust your ass no matter if you have a degree or not. Whatever floats peoples boats.

Concider a Polytechinc school. i attend Southen Polytechnic state University and its pretty cool (but still hard). I was in the same situation you are in now. I went to the university of goergia and felt like i was wasting my time. i considered going to wyotech or some school of such until i came across SPSU. My major is Mechanical engineering TECHNOLOGY (met for short). It is like a regular ME degree except it is based on application more than theory. I have classes like manufactoring process and welding outside of my regular class like thermo and statics and such. It gives you that bull shit piece of paper along with a little bit of real knowledge of how shit actually works by getting you out there to actually do it. We also have a formula SAE team where we build and race a formula car...pretty cool stuff. Actually last week in my graphics class, we designed a rocker arm using solid works. So just a concideration to give you more options...

college is for people that need that crutch. .

dumbest thing i've heard all day

college is for people that need that crutch.

+1 on that being the dumbest thing I have heard all day. Get real.

You want to be a designer, but you don't like "book work"? That seems a little backwards. What do you think design is about? I did do design work for while on track loaders. If you get bored in school you may not like design work that much. I didn't, so I went into test and development.

Also, as for college the company I work for (and I bet most others) wont hire design/development people without having a bachelors degree. It is usually the bare minimum these days.

If you want to work on cars that would be a two year vocational degree or nothing at all. If you want to design them that would be a mechanical engineering degree. There would be a lot of book work in mechanical engineering with all the math and physics.

I am in the same boat as you. I just started my first semester in school working towards my Mechanical Engineering Technology degree. I do have a lot of book work (technical mathematics and technical problem solving classes) but I also have CADD classes, manufacturing processes, technical drawing, electronical circuiting and so on and so forth classes. (not all in the same semester). I am going through a local community college while working at a local salvage yard (cleveland pick a part) working on GTO's, Corvette's, T/a's and Camaros. Ill tell you right now though, if you do not have the self discipline to do the "book work" to be a engineer then do not even think about it. The math alone will kill you. It sounds like you want a dream job with great salary but you dont want to get your hands dirty or work hard for it.

+1 on that being the dumbest thing I have heard all day. Get real.



Yeah no kidding..........dumbest thing I think I have read all year on here.


I know a guy that was a A and B student, we went to Purdue for Nucler Eng.

He droped it and went to something else.

I read threw one of his FRESHMAN math books and after the first few pages my head hurt. Having study groups was MANDATORY.

Any kind of ENG has a TON of book work and a ton of math.

YOu have to bust your butt and do things you don't want to do for your dream job.

Become a machinist.

Life of suffrage but you'll have every cool toy there is for a car/bike/gun/archery/ you name it.

Cause you made it yourself. . .

If you like mechanical, you may have more fun doing this instead.

If you don't like book work stay clear of engineering. I too was like you once, but realized I was going to keep automotives as my hobby. College is not easy, especially if you go to a good one, but it's worth it in the end. Without a degree it is going to be much harder to get a job, and or move up in a current job. Whatever you do, get some kind of degree

When i ment by "book work" is i am doing that book work right now, two math classes and a physics class. I dont mind it if is going to steer me in the right direction.
I cant find that direction theo.
Through out my high school years i have always struggled because my reading level was and still is below what it should be. But i did amazing in all my math classes.
I guess what i am looking for is a direction and some guidance of what i should be looking into.

http://met.spsu.edu/

check this out...

hey send me a PM, or IM me at the aim address i have posted under my username...good info

Yeah no kidding..........dumbest thing I think I have read all year on here.


I know a guy that was a A and B student, we went to Purdue for Nucler Eng.

He droped it and went to something else.

I read threw one of his FRESHMAN math books and after the first few pages my head hurt. Having study groups was MANDATORY.

Any kind of ENG has a TON of book work and a ton of math.

YOu have to bust your butt and do things you don't want to do for your dream job.

Its amazing how many people have been brainwashed to think that you need college to succeed in life. I have met so many dumb fucks and people working at dead end jobs with college degrees its not even funny. If you retards read my entire post i said you have to work hard no matter what path you choose. Apparently people with a degree think it means something, now thats a joke. :eyes:

not being able to think outside of the box is what is killing this country. Peoples over reliance and pumped up worth of a "college education" is sickening. Don't be a sheeple and put your head down and automatically go to college because you think you have to, you most certainly dont. You can make it and many, many successful people have, doing their own thing. If more emphasis was put on fiscal responsibility, STAYING OUT OF DEBT, learning how to manage the money you make, investing it properly and educating the average consumer not to be a total idiot, we would be a lot better off. Some people amaze me.....I could go on forever...

Get your degree first, or in conjunction with some type of technical discipline, then you'll be in the vast minority of engineers who can actually not only tell you the theory, but actually make the part and install it and modify it so it actually works
If you're interested in airplane engines (turbines) check out the major manufacturers, they usually have openings for techs/engineers in their product development areas

not being able to think outside of the box is what is killing this country. Peoples over reliance and pumped up worth of a "college education" is sickening. Don't be a sheeple and put your head down and automatically go to college because you think you have to, you most certainly dont. You can make it and many, many successful people have, doing their own thing. If more emphasis was put on fiscal responsibility, STAYING OUT OF DEBT, learning how to manage the money you make, investing it properly and educating the average consumer not to be a total idiot, we would be a lot better off. Some people amaze me.....I could go on forever...

Actually I agree, all too often the "engineers" that come out of college thinking they know everything (and it applies to all college degrees), are the reason for screw ups, I'm an A&P mechanic with 20 yrs experience, so some freshly graduated engineer might have a better knowledge of the mathematical theory behind the opereration, but doesn't even come close to having the real world knowledge that 20 yrs in the business teaches, so quit trying to tell me in the land of book work and theory it should work, when it damn well doesn't in the real world (sorry for the small rant)
After the degree, don't assume you know it all, listen to the guy thats been doing it for 20 yrs, you might just learn something ;)

Some interesting advice in this thread. Are you learning simply to get a job or learning to be a well rounded and better person in general?

Me... I loved school and still love learning new things.

That said... a college diploma is the minimum required these days... it opens the door for you. After that door is opened experience and actions will pull you through.

Sure many have "made it" w/o a degree, but it's rare and the road is harder. A company or employer will always choose the person w/ the degree all esle being equal.

If you want to turn wrenches... then get out of a "normal" school and go to a technical school... however, if you want to design parts and vehicles then you must study mechanical engineering which is incredible amounts of work.

I have a BBA from William & Mary... it's opened many doors. However, If I had to do it all over again I'd got somewhere and get my Mech Eng degree and then my MBA.

Another thing... around my area so many younger guys w/ wrench experience open up speed/tuning shops... most all fold after a few months to a year because the people running them have no business sense or business education. They have no clue how to manage finances, treat customers, deal with people.

Good luck! Get a degree.

Its amazing how many people have been brainwashed to think that you need college to succeed in life. I have met so many dumb fucks and people working at dead end jobs with college degrees its not even funny. If you retards read my entire post i said you have to work hard no matter what path you choose. Apparently people with a degree think it means something, now thats a joke. :eyes:


:secret::rotflmao:

Its amazing how many people have been brainwashed to think that you need college to succeed in life. I have met so many dumb fucks and people working at dead end jobs with college degrees its not even funny. If you retards read my entire post i said you have to work hard no matter what path you choose. Apparently people with a degree think it means something, now thats a joke. :eyes:

You should move out of Pismo and quit McDonalds. Of course having a college degree does not automatically tag you as being a genius and successful. Of course you have to work hard no matter what. But the fact is unless you work for yourself (which does not happen that often with success) you should have a degree if you want to move up in a company. Like many people have been saying here, sure turning wrenches sounds fun now, but when you're 60? Probably not so much. There are exceptions, but why hamper yourself when you can get a degree and make life a little easier.

The fact of the matter is what you said about college being a "crutch for those who need it" is insanely idiotic, especially when giving that advice to a teenager. I am an environmental scientist and I work for a big consulting firm, who would never even talk to someone about a job who didn't have a degree. I wouldn't exactly say I went to college because I needed a crutch to get a job with them. I don't think I could have started working for them as a janitor and moved up to where I am now.

Btw, when you go to a company with a resume from a competitive college, with a good gpa, and a degree from a reputable program, you impress people during interviews and that DOES mean something.

P.S. So I don't get flamed, I am not saying you MUST have a degree to be successful, I'm just saying that you do 90% of the time.

P.S.S. Why wouldn't anyone want to go to college, I have never had so much fun getting drunk, making friends, and screwing chicks in my life. Have some fun while you're still young.

Not needing a degree and still making the big bucks?

Maybe 15 - 20+ yrs ago this may have been case, not so now-a-days. At that point college was price exclusive so only rich kids went, and they got richer. This left a lot of very intelligent people without a degree simply because they couldn't afford college, not because they weren't intelligent. These people started "on the floor" so to speak, and excelled by use of hard work and intelligence. Now, 20 years later, yes they may be making some $$$ because they are the "boss". But these bosses are about to retire in a lot of positions, and companies are filling these with individuals with degrees. In many cases I've seen it doesn't matter what your degree is in, but rather that you have one> They can train you to do the specific job.

Today, the government helps subsidize the cost of college and there are easy to obtain college loans, meaning any one that wants to go to college, can. Whats this means is yes, some people that obtain a degree are not the brightest nor the best, but they still have the diploma to prove they completed the work. However, try searching for a job on Monster or Career Builder without a degree. Its become the "standard" for many positions. They wont even look at your resume unless it has a degree of some sort, regardless of your experience.

Without a degree you might make good money at a trade (truck driving, electrical,mechanic, mason, etc... etc...) but that usually has a maximum salary and limited growth potential.

With a degree, you can sit behind a desk in a nice comfy office pushing paper most of the day and make better money is less time. I dont know about you but id rather feed my family and save my body behind a desk then turning wrenches.

BUT: if you need more incentive to go to college, just look at Nineball's garage...

P.S.S. Why wouldn't anyone want to go to college, I have never had so much fun getting drunk, making friends, and screwing chicks in my life. Have some fun while you're still young.

Haha, thats the only fun part, i like working things also.

-Thank you for all the good information, now i have to do some searching...

check out morrisville state college. its another SUNY school like an hour away from stoneonta. I go there for a bachelors of science and technology in automotive technology. Its a GREAT hands on bachelors degree that teaches you the latest and greatest of new automotive tech. We have a brand new state-of-the-art auto building with 30+ lifts, a dyno, 2 alignment racks, tranny dyno, classrooms, full scan tools (manufacturer specific too), and everything else. Students can work on their own cars, and its just a blast doing it. Plus there really isnt that much "gen ed" classes, and book work that go along with it. morrisville.edu and then check out automotive tech. You can also PM me for more info

Oh ya and another auto building is under construction that will be the new(er) body lab, spray booth, and automotive performance center!

how large is the difference between an met degree and an aet degree? ive been told that the aet degree just puts you on-line to turn wrenches at a dealership

You should move out of Pismo and quit McDonalds. Of course having a college degree does not automatically tag you as being a genius and successful. Of course you have to work hard no matter what. But the fact is unless you work for yourself (which does not happen that often with success) you should have a degree if you want to move up in a company. Like many people have been saying here, sure turning wrenches sounds fun now, but when you're 60? Probably not so much. There are exceptions, but why hamper yourself when you can get a degree and make life a little easier.

The fact of the matter is what you said about college being a "crutch for those who need it" is insanely idiotic, especially when giving that advice to a teenager. I am an environmental scientist and I work for a big consulting firm, who would never even talk to someone about a job who didn't have a degree. I wouldn't exactly say I went to college because I needed a crutch to get a job with them. I don't think I could have started working for them as a janitor and moved up to where I am now.

Btw, when you go to a company with a resume from a competitive college, with a good gpa, and a degree from a reputable program, you impress people during interviews and that DOES mean something.

P.S. So I don't get flamed, I am not saying you MUST have a degree to be successful, I'm just saying that you do 90% of the time.

P.S.S. Why wouldn't anyone want to go to college, I have never had so much fun getting drunk, making friends, and screwing chicks in my life. Have some fun while you're still young.

Not even going to comment on the Mcdonalds remark, personal attacks are pretty dumb. Apparently you and everyone else on the U OF Bullshit bandwagon still dont want to address what this country really needs and that is financially educated people (that aren't knee deep in debt, 53% of americans have no emergency savings= emergency savings = 3-4 months of income in a seperate account) that actually know what to do with their big "corporate" paychecks when they get them. My original comment of "crutch for those who need it" is exactly true. I will forever stand by that comment. For those sheeple that like to get in line and punch the clock in their windowless office and work the 9-5 at some job "where only degrees" are accepted is fine by me. For some people a general degree at whereever college will get them a decent job that they can put themselves on autopilot with for the rest of their lives. Me, I choose something better, something off the beaten trail. Working on being financially literate, investment savy and having the drive to STOP WORKING at an early age is something everyone should strive for. Its what gets me up every morning to work hard and what keeps me up at night messing with my stocks. To get back to topic. This kid should go where his heart desires and never listen to people who say you can only be successful if you do things one way. Don't ever let someone tell you, you cant do something. If you have the hunger your halfway there. Threads like this make financial independence my own way that much more rewarding...:D

Lol, you act like everyone who has gone to college can't possibly have it as good as you. And for the record, I am not in debt, my job isnt 9-5 or in a windowless office, and yes, my company will only accept people with a degree. And lets talk about personal attacks, you are the one that came in here calling people "retards" who think college is a good idea :lol:.

By the way, for a job like becoming an airline pilot for example. If you don't have a degree you can not get a job. End of story.

This guy was talking about wanting to design pistons and engines, you think he will ever get a f'ing job without going to school first? Get a clue.

Not even going to comment on the Mcdonalds remark, personal attacks are pretty dumb. Apparently you and everyone else on the U OF Bullshit bandwagon still dont want to address what this country really needs and that is financially educated people (that aren't knee deep in debt, 53% of americans have no emergency savings= emergency savings = 3-4 months of income in a seperate account) that actually know what to do with their big "corporate" paychecks when they get them. My original comment of "crutch for those who need it" is exactly true. I will forever stand by that comment. For those sheeple that like to get in line and punch the clock in their windowless office and work the 9-5 at some job "where only degrees" are accepted is fine by me. For some people a general degree at whereever college will get them a decent job that they can put themselves on autopilot with for the rest of their lives. Me, I choose something better, something off the beaten trail. Working on being financially literate, investment savy and having the drive to STOP WORKING at an early age is something everyone should strive for. Its what gets me up every morning to work hard and what keeps me up at night messing with my stocks. To get back to topic. This kid should go where his heart desires and never listen to people who say you can only be successful if you do things one way. Don't ever let someone tell you, you cant do something. If you have the hunger your halfway there. Threads like this make financial independence my own way that much more rewarding...:D

wow, some strong words here. Best advice is for what you are after is getting some kind of degree wether its engineering or a trade, etc. Sounds like you are pointing in the direction of engineering, mechanical at that. Word of advise is its not all cracked up to be and only once you are there you will truly know if its for you are not. Not many people end up doing what they wanted to do out of or in high school, not b/c of they can't wether its financial or intellectual but b/c they simply jsut didn't want to. Thye ended up not liking it and decding it wasn't for them after 4 or more years of school. A waste? Well to some but not to everyone, something to fall back on but some years of wasted time setting yourself up on your feet or finding what you wnated to do. Atlest you don't have the, 'Gee I wonder if that was for me, God I wish I had done that'. It boils down to what you want to do, don't listen to someone but simply take into consideration of their advice. I have always loved cars and was like you at my younger years installing, fabing, tinkinering, etc pertaining to the automotive industry. I knew that simply pulling wrenches in a garage wouldn't do it for me both financially or emotionally speaking. I first thought of a trade b/c that was what my waste of time guidance consellor had mentioned than I was thinking Mech Eng. I knew countless people that not only failed out but ended up not even using this digree if managed to pass. Some very smart people, I wasn't afraid of the feat as I was fairly smart when putting the effort in but figured that wasn't the route either. Quickly closing in on grade 12, my dad had given me a reccommendation for Power Engineering. A glorified Process Operator, Jack of all Trades, Master of none. EVerything you can basically think of, a lil of this a a lil of that. Touching a bit of everything, knowing how it works and operating it. Some places pending where you work you will fix to some extent but not were I currently work. We are not allowed to, a very big Heavy Oil Upgrading Facilty. Anyways, I ahve all of the time to learn and epand my knowledge if I desire and can take myself as far as I desire. Weith some study on the job, I can achieve my second class cirtificate and actually challenge my degree in Mechainical Engineering if I choose. Some very serious stuff if you decide to take the journey. Not sure Id I will, I am content at the level I am at as I am only 23 but still strive to work hard but home always comes first. I make enought money to have the toys and do all the tickering on my days off that end up being more thatn I actually work. I can shoose a project and unload into it. I ahve always wanted to own my own shop and stated tha if I 'were' to win the lottery I'd open my own shop, not to be rich but to do something I love. Its hard to have a job that you actual love and make allot of money,etc. Its usually one of the other and I knew I couldn't do it with the rich hobbies I've always had. Once you get the big pay cheques its hard to go back down.

I like to ramble on, keep your eyes open and do what only you want. You are young so if you decide to do something and not like it, its not the end of the world. The key is to get on track and stay on it, find somthing that you are good at doing. Not all of us can have that dream job and pick what we want to do and make a shit load of cash. You can't always have you cake and eat it too.

Good luck, hope I helped out. If not I tried. Make sure to leave sometime for having fun too, you are still young. Once you get older, ahve kids, etc it's too late. I am nearing that stage right now. Good Luck :chug:

At university of north carolina at charlotte they have motorsports engineering and mechanical engineering. you might want to check that out.
i know someone who has a major in mechanical and a minor in motorsports engineering and he is currently a race day engineer in the Busch series for car number 6 i think.

BUT: if you need more incentive to go to college, just look at Nineball's garage...

:chug:

First thing you have to do is decide FOR YOURSELF... what you want to do.. College or even school for that matter isnt for everybody.. I personally hated school but did ok.. I started working on race cars when I was 13 I knew buy the time I was 16-17 it was what I wanted to do for a living So college wasnt even a thought.. Racing has been good to me it also is the curse that is the cure tons of sacrifice injury you name it.. its almost like a rodeo...But there is nothing better than winning...For different people that maybe closing a huge deal putting some scumbag in jail...build a piston thats 3HP better Find out what you want to win...I couldnt imagine going to work everyday in some highrise in a suit and tie doing the same shit day in and day out for some big corparation that dosent give a shit about you with or anyone else for that matter...stick me behind some big desk I'd kill myself...takeaway that thrill of competition or winning whats left ? Nothing I want...I have been all over the world racing from Pell City Alabama... Tokoyo Japan met some trully awesome and unique people I wouldnt trade it for the world.. Take what people have to say in moderation dont let them sell you on something you really dont want to buy...Your 18 you can afford to piss away a few years dont sit in a cubicale 10 years from now with a wife and 2 kids at home and wonder what could of been.. Theres alot of different paths to get where you want to go in life some are just a little tougher than others.. hard work dedication and commitment to exelence...A job like mine has given me one thing,that would be work ethic... dosent matter if we have to work 8 hours or 20 7 days a week it has to be done they wont hold a race because your not ready...I could take that to "a real job" and do well with it...getting the other lazy bastards to understand is wgere there would be a problem...

You need to decide how deep you want to go. A Mechanical Engineering Technology program might be for you.

Its amazing how many people have been brainwashed to think that you need college to succeed in life. I have met so many dumb fucks and people working at dead end jobs with college degrees its not even funny. If you retards read my entire post i said you have to work hard no matter what path you choose. Apparently people with a degree think it means something, now thats a joke. :eyes:

You obviously NEVER attended college..Iam not even done yet and Ive done work for Roush Performance, Superformance and now Toyota (head office). Try that w/o an education big guy.

have you looked into UTI (universal technical institute) or NTI (nascar technical institute) both are really good schools and highly acredited when you complete the year and a half course you will be ASE certified and everything ready to go straight into the automotive field...and i believe they have hardly any bookwork...i have the same problem i cant do anything but hands on learning and training...good luck.

I think LoyolaCub68 said it pretty well- you want to do anything corporate and get somewhere a degree is VERY important. There was an article in the local paper a month or so ago about people who work jobs very different from what they majored in, but that little piece of paper showed they had the dedication and drive to stick with something. Among other things my dad is in charge of hiring people occasionally for the seed business he works at, and he's told me several times how Person A with more real world expierence has lost out because he didnt have a college degree like Person B (along with some real world exp.). Right or wrong that's the way its worked out several times for him.
For those that go to start their own business a college degree isn't necessary. What is necessary is personal and finance skills. Maybe you go and take some classes to get an understanding of finance and manage money but never get a degree, as long as you have the skills to succeed no matter how you get them. If you understand finances, find something your extremely passionate/knowledgable(sp) about, and have good people skills your chances of running a successful business are far greater, but there is still luck involved.
I know several people who run their own business very successfully and they all have a couple things in common- passion for what they do and people skills. The choice is yours, but if you plan to move your way anywhere up a corporate ladder you will need a degree at some time or another. If you start a business and it fails odds are you will end up working for someone else, and to get into a good spot with that company guess what? You'll prob. need a degree. It never hurts

The arguments of degree vs non-degree is futile. Obviously the majority of the people in each bucket are going to defend it to the death to prove they didn't wast 4 years of their life in either scenario (with obvious exceptions). The point is to figure out what you want to do and how to get there. Talk to people and companies that you do what you want to do and ask how they got there or what is required to get there. If an overwhelming response is a degree, then do it. If it's not, then don't. College is a great benefit for those types of jobs requiring it. Obviously not all jobs do. You are going to hear tons of stories about the guy that never went to college but now is a CEO, as well as the other end of the spectrum about a guy that is a CEO that would have never made it there without college. As for college being a crutch, well there is nothing to say to that level of intelligence that already hasn't been said in such a statement. There is nothing worse than discouraging someone from going to college, and the same goes for pushing someone who feels it may not be for them. Personally, I wouldn't be anywhere close to where I am today without my college degree. I was someone that wanted to go to college to get the best education possible for my area (computer security). I busted my ass while other people were farting around. This is not to say I didn't have fun while I was doing it b/c there are so many times I can't remember that I was wasted or just had fun in general with the college experience. However, when it came to work time, that's what I did. I'm only 23, have my BS, Masters, and several comp sec accreditations. Because of this, I am making 6 figures straight out of school. In my field, college was not only necessary, but critical to my success. However, this is just my personal experience. There are people that went to trade schools and are doing equally as well. It all matters about what your passion is. To argue about whether college is worth it or not is like arguing religion or politics. It's all opinion. I can't say it doesn't amaze me to hear some people argue against college based on simple claims that they got nothing from it or don't think there is anything to get from it, but that's their prerogative. That has no effect on what I knew I wanted to do, where I wanted to go, and where I am now. The bottom line is that a degree will NEVER hurt you, no matter what anyone says. There is absolutely NO ONE that will turn you down for the simple fact of having a degree, whereas the reverse is quite opposite and you WILL be turned down from places for the simple fact of NOT having one. However, the question is whether these places that might turn you down are the ones that you will be looking to be a part of. That's where your research lies.

I "wasted" 6 years working in the industry (gaining experience) THEN I went to automotive business school, the two play off each other WAY BETTER THAN I THOUGHT!! Iam still firm, you need some type of education to inflate your paycheque, otherwise the employers just dont take you seriously...

Not even going to comment on the Mcdonalds remark, personal attacks are pretty dumb. Apparently you and everyone else on the U OF Bullshit bandwagon still dont want to address what this country really needs and that is financially educated people (that aren't knee deep in debt, 53% of americans have no emergency savings= emergency savings = 3-4 months of income in a seperate account) that actually know what to do with their big "corporate" paychecks when they get them. My original comment of "crutch for those who need it" is exactly true. I will forever stand by that comment. For those sheeple that like to get in line and punch the clock in their windowless office and work the 9-5 at some job "where only degrees" are accepted is fine by me. For some people a general degree at whereever college will get them a decent job that they can put themselves on autopilot with for the rest of their lives. Me, I choose something better, something off the beaten trail. Working on being financially literate, investment savy and having the drive to STOP WORKING at an early age is something everyone should strive for. Its what gets me up every morning to work hard and what keeps me up at night messing with my stocks. To get back to topic. This kid should go where his heart desires and never listen to people who say you can only be successful if you do things one way. Don't ever let someone tell you, you cant do something. If you have the hunger your halfway there. Threads like this make financial independence my own way that much more rewarding...:D

So you paraphrase some text from a Kiyosaki book and now your an expert on the value of higher education? Financial literacy is a separate discussion.

I have been on both sides of the fence on this debate. However, I do have a ME degree and couldn't do without it.

If you love vehicles, why not learn how they work? You dont need to go college to get this, but it sure helps. Its fun, and you can get a good job afterward. (And I mean really learn how they work, the cool aspects of dynamics and thermodynamics)

Unsubscribed from this thread because of the lack of some rational thinking (TanRchy). Good to see a few voices of reason coming in here.....:nod:

i too am 18 and am halfway through my first semester as a Mechanical Engineer. i thought this was what i wanted to do all my life. get a job with GM or Harley-Davidson, designing engines and cars. i realized that inorder to do that i would need a degree otherwise they wouldnt consider me. i worked in a shop for about a year and gained a fair amount of experience working on cars. its really waht YOU want to do man. dont listen to all these one-sided people. if you want to work on design then you ned a degree, to work for like a race team putting hte engine together and working on it you can go to UTI or a trade school like that. they have a guaranteed job for almost every graduate from what i hear. i am actually transfering my major after this semester. its not cause its ridiculously hard even though i know its getting that way and will be, its just i found something else to do. after a while in the major im sure you will decide for yourself if its for you or not. i am going into Physics and Astronomy which i dont think will be any easier, but i always been fascinated with space :)

ArcticZ28, Must be damned nice to be making 6 figures straight out of school. And you do computer security? What company do you work for?

Stay with the book work,,, it will pay off in the long run. You dont want to be fixing cars till your 60.

ArcticZ28, Must be damned nice to be making 6 figures straight out of school. And you do computer security? What company do you work for?

It is nice. I'm glad I put myself through hell for 5 years. It paid off. I work for a national lab doing computer security things. That's about all I'll say :)

Its amazing how many people have been brainwashed to think that you need college to succeed in life. I have met so many dumb fucks and people working at dead end jobs with college degrees its not even funny. If you retards read my entire post i said you have to work hard no matter what path you choose. Apparently people with a degree think it means something, now thats a joke. :eyes:

The problem is he will be hard pressed to get into the design door for an automotive company without a Degree. I know this first hand.


I was in the machinist/engine building field for almost three years. I finally quit so I can finish my Engineering Degree. The one thing I am lacking to help secure my spot in the professional field. I would like to do more then be an engine builder the rest of my life, even though I thoroughly enjoy it.

I will add my whole take on this later, in detail.

If you love cars then definitely don't work on them professionally, Have a career that can support the life style you want and your car hobby.

Schooling is there to teach you the principals of how and why things work. By understanding the basic principals you are then able to improve a design or modify a design to make it fit a specific application.

An employer such as GM will not care that you can rebuild an engine and make 1000hp out of it, they can do it to. They want someone who can build the architecture from scratch and make it reliable enough to last for 10yrs 100,000 miles with basic maintenance.

They don't care that you've been a professional body man for year and have had countless magazine articles/cover for custom body work, they want someone who can analyze and set trends and predict what design will sell in 5-10 years.

Drafting will make up 30% of an engineering curriculum but once you become an engineer you will hardly ever touch a cad program, your time is too valuable sure you may do a draft design but the draftsman is the one who gets paid to sit in front of the computer for countless hours making sure it's drawn properly. the engineer is out with the client or working on other projects.

A Formal education is never going to be waste, it use to be that a 4yr degree use to get you a great job, now employers are looking for masters degrees as well.

Just remember this: (no disrespect to mechanics)
Engineers Design the cars and make the work from the ground up, mechanics/techs fix the little problems that go wrong from day to day uses.

If you want to design most car items, you will need at least a BSME. A masters would be better, but more book work. You could also go the BSEE route, and do the electronics. A side path would be a Computer Science degree, to do the software. But if you want to do the "real" car work, you want an ME degree.
The toughest parts you will find will be the math (All levels of Calculus required, as well as Differential Equations) and the physics (both General Physics as well as Engineering Statics and Dynamics). You will also have to take such courses as Strength of Materials, very important in the design world.
Is is easy? Of course not. Is is fun? Not for me, it wasn't. Did it pay off? Like gangbusters.
Are there engineers out there that don't know their sphincters from a hole in the ground? Of course, there are in all, repeat ALL, professions.
Best of luck with your decision.

Actually I agree, all too often the "engineers" that come out of college thinking they know everything (and it applies to all college degrees), are the reason for screw ups, I'm an A&P mechanic with 20 yrs experience, so some freshly graduated engineer might have a better knowledge of the mathematical theory behind the opereration, but doesn't even come close to having the real world knowledge that 20 yrs in the business teaches, so quit trying to tell me in the land of book work and theory it should work, when it damn well doesn't in the real world (sorry for the small rant)
After the degree, don't assume you know it all, listen to the guy thats been doing it for 20 yrs, you might just learn something ;)

Engineers coming out of college don't think they know everything, they act like they know everything, and thats how you make money. Almost all answers an engineer can come up with are wrong, but you state the answers with certain assumptions, conditions, etc. and try to get it close enough. The guy who does this will get promoted but the guy who says "i dont know" isnt going anywhere.

Engineers coming out of college don't think they know everything, they act like they know everything, and thats how you make money. Almost all answers an engineer can come up with are wrong, but you state the answers with certain assumptions, conditions, etc. and try to get it close enough. The guy who does this will get promoted but the guy who says "i dont know" isnt going anywhere.I have to say, that is the silliest thing I have read in this thread.
College taught me two things: First, I will never know everything, and when I encounter anyone (engineer or otherwise) who thinks that they do, I walk the other way.
Second, they taught me how to think things through. Give me a problem, and a somewhat reasonable amount of time, and I can figure the problem out, provide alternate solutions, make recommendations, and have data to back it up. And it will be in a report appropriate to the audience, even if it is the president of the company.

Engineers coming out of college don't think they know everything, they act like they know everything, and thats how you make money. Almost all answers an engineer can come up with are wrong, but you state the answers with certain assumptions, conditions, etc. and try to get it close enough. The guy who does this will get promoted but the guy who says "i dont know" isnt going anywhere.

This is not a silling statement. I work at a very large Heavy Oil Upgrading facility that employs well over 300 people alone not include contractors in shich I would be unable to even take a stab at. Our engineer's all get laughed at, they think they know everything but who operates the damn facility anyways? They tell us to do something b/c they are a boss but we say no this will happen we can't do that. After hours of 'discussion' we finally agree ok than I'll do it. I wonder what happens, retarded decisions everyday. Make it feel like it s a ticking time bomb and you could prevent it but hey what do we know they are 'engineers'. LOL, I applied and was going to persue mech Eng, after seeing this I am so glad I never. Lat night at work this actually came up and I said exactly this. I am proud of my career choice, I do less and make more than them anyways. Only been at this plant for a year now and will make over 100 000 g's easy this year. Guys that have been there for 5+ years will make between 120-170. Thats me in 3-4 years. :chug:

Your statement reminds me of the Navy: The officers have the "prestige" if you will, but the chiefs run the Navy.
I did not make my career choice for the money, I made it because I enjoy it and I am good at it. I am happy that you approve of your career choice; it takes all kinds to make the world go 'round.

Society has been brainwashed by the man man! Live free! f*** college! it's useless (seriously... I wish everyone would stop going now... would give me job security :D)

You really need to reevaluate your goals... My dad's been an auto mechanic at the same dealership for 35 years, his dad worked there also... after that ammount of time he has no desire to work on even his own cars lol... now business is so slow (Jaguar Dealership) there are days he won't even do any work... and other days he will work all day (Commission only)

You can get good money if you really bust your ass (He had a few 6 digit years in the late 80s and early 90s) but it's a whole lot easier to make that ammount and maintain it if you're doing something of a less manual labor nature...

If you think college is hard... wait till you get a job w/demands, a house, etc... I would suggest re-evaluating your major... worst case get a liberal arts degree, then you can always go back later and get a masters in something you enjoy (Masters degrees are for losers though... so no one should get those either :D)

Myself... I went to college for my computer science degree... while working full time and graduated after 2 years w/my 4 year degree. However... I loved the math classes, the CS classes, etc... It was/is my passion. When I first got my degree I didn't get an immediate bump since I already had the job, but w/out that degree I can guarantee I would not be making what I do now after just 7 years in Corporate America....

Really the way I look at it is this:
College Degree - gives you the edge over those w/out a degree, demonstrates that you are capable of starting a difficult task and completing it.

After you're in the industry for a while the degree is not as important (someone with 7 years experience in a certain position w/no degree will be picked over someone w/a degree and no experience) but the degree really helps get your foot in the door and allows you to move up the ladder quicker.

Well stated, Horist.
A college degree will help get your foot in the door, but YOU have to make the effort after that. I have worked with engineers (and techs) that couldn't pour piss out of a boot if the instructions were written on the heel. And I have worked with techs that were better engineers than most of the engineers I worked with, because they applied themselves.
My dad had an MSEE, but worked at the Post Office all his life, because he enjoyed it.
Also, I suggest avoiding general statements such as "all college grads are idiots" or "all non-college grads couldn't make the cut", "all engineers are idiots", etc. IMHO, this is discrimination in its basest form.

too lazy to read the whole thread, but I go to tstc in waco, texas for automotive. you should check them out. not a lot of book work, mostly hands on, and the book work is actually interesting. The reason I chose it over a lot of the other tech schools is because you actually get a degree there, and the teachers have a lot of connections as far as jobs go. in my new student seminar, there was a guy from the cayman islands, and when the instructor asked why he came all the way to texas for school, he said his company sends all their employees to tstc for school.

Just remember this: (no disrespect to mechanics)
Engineers Design the cars and make the work from the ground up, mechanics/techs fix the little problems that go wrong from day to day uses.



If you work hard at what you do and do it well you will succeed, Not everyone can be a rocket scientist. I know mechanics making 90k a year and I've meet ones owning a business making 200k a year. I have been a auto tech for 2 years and making a 40k a year so far.

You may not NEED a college degree for what you want to do, but you do need a college education. You aren't going to design pistons without knowing the underlying principles that define them. It worked in the old days when everyone was just experimenting, but the technology is far enough along in this day and age that you need to know what you're doing to do something different.

http://www.ces.clemson.edu/me/automotive/

/thread.

If you don't like book work it'll be pretty hard to get through any type of Bachelors in Engineering; Calc. 3, diff E., and Calc. based physics are some of the harder classes you have to get through here at TTU. I changed my major to a Engineering technology degree, and i could still get a design job designing automated machines and what not, but I won't be anything close to M.E., maybe a I.E.. Anyways, just take your time, you don't want to get caught up in something you hate.

If you're looking for hands on instruction, you should think about the School of Automotive Machinists. They have a great reputation in the racing industry.

i'm all for college, but it is HOW you work that will move you up. The degree gets you the second look so you can prove your work skills. A degree with no work skills is worthless, but chances are if you get a degree like an engineering degree, you have work ethics. I am 23, i started college for international business and screwed around, while paying my own way, for a few years. I finally figured out what i wanted about 2 yrs ago and i have a year and a half left for my electrical engineering degree. Will i know everything after getting it? No. But i have worked full time since highschool, putting myself through a private highschool and college, and do my fulltime school work. I make good money wokring as a mobile electrinics install manager, but 1) 50k a yr will not support the life i want for me or my future family, 2) i don't ever want to worry about working weekends or holidays when i have a family and 3)i dont want to deal with the ignorance i see everyday for the rest of my life. I know ignorance is everywhere, but when you are surrounded by educated people who worked to get what they have, there is less ignorance than the general public.The degree gets you the job, your hard work gets you more money and promotions. As long as you like it and have work ethics, you will suceed.

snip

:word:

a degree is more or less to show you can FINISH something. it's meant to be hard. its not like grade school. you have to teach yourself how to work.

it took myself a while to figure this out as well, but it finally hit me. if you want more for yourself, you will push yourself harder to get what you want. you wont make millions being lazy unless you win the lottery

Im going to harper college for business to keep my parents off my back , Im going to try to enroll in UTI for night classes and do both

because your parents want you to is the worst reason there is to make a decision. yes parents do have years of experience in life under their belt and take their advice strongly...but dont do something just because they want you too. they are just people and don't know everything. my one friends mom is so brainwashed that you need a degree in business to do anything other than the drive thru at mcdonalds...but she's interested in the health field (a field that will yeild a rewarding life in any aspect of it nowadays, i'm in the radiology program myself). so that business degree isn't going to do shit for what she wants to do. listen to parents advice but take it with a grain of salt also. your outta high school now and big boys and girls. theres a whole world out there, you can do anything you want. its alright to make major life decisions on your own. but best advice is to talk to as many people as you can and put all their experience and advice together and make your decisions. and when you do decide on the path you want to take make sure you put all your effort into it everyday. hard work shows and pays off! and college life is sick...ahhhh soo many good nights:D. best years of your life enjoy it

You want to be a designer, but you don't like "book work"? That seems a little backwards. What do you think design is about? I did do design work for while on track loaders. If you get bored in school you may not like design work that much. I didn't, so I went into test and development..

Exactly, you have to go to college if you want to design. You are actually located in the same city i work in, actually right up the hill.

I'd recommend going to school for mechanical engineering, I went for Civil and sort of regret it, really wish I had gone mechanical. Most the guys i graduated with (mechanical guys) ended up working for allison transmission and new venture gear.

In school the civil guys built a bridge and the mechanical guys built a buggy, man was that upsetting :bang:

I have a friend that goes to school in Cleveland, we are from Buffalo, you should look into UTI or a similar type of program, I know my friend finishes pretty soon and will be working for BMW... Just a thought!

WOW! this is the best argument I've ever heard! I love it.
-I'm not choosing sides (or maybe i am?) but I'm currently in my second year at MU in Columbia, MO and i've had the greatest year and a half of my life. I am in exactly the same position as the kid who started this post. I HATE the book-work and am dreading the thought of doing it for another 3 or 4 year. I've drooled over muscle cars and anything with an engine since I was 7 years old. In order to do the fun stuff (design automotive projects/parts/or accessories) one must hit the books and hit them hard! If you cant handle a little book work, you dont deserve to do what you want in life. I cant wait to graduate and start collecting toy's! I hope you figure things out and things turn around for you. . .

'Intelligence plus character - that is the goal of true education.' - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr

Society has been brainwashed by the man man! Live free! f*** college! it's useless
This all depends on who you are and where you are at in life.

Going to college was one of the best decisions I ever made.

I agree that you shouldn't do it just b/c your parents say so or because that's the typical thing to do, but saying it isn't a good choice in any situation is totally off base.

just do both man. put it this way... if you ONLY go to say UTI and you apply for a job for a nascar team or NHRA or indy or whatever, and another guy that went to UTI applys also but he has a mechanical engineering degree, then your screwed... they wouldnt even consider you over him. Im in the same boat as you are but im 20 and have 2 1/2 years of my mechanical engineering degree out of my way... then im going straight to SAM.

i dunno if im too late on this but i just saw it, i am in new england tech in rhode island currently, its 60% hands on and 40% book. they also offer a high performance semester for free when u finish your associates =)

While you do not NEED ANY degree to get the job you want, think of it this way. They bigger better degree you have the more likely you are to get a better salary. If nothing else think of it this way, say you and another guy are applying for the exact same job, you both have the exact same motivation and level of skill, however you have an assiociates, a tech degree whatever...who do you think would get hired? You would because you have that one small thing over him which makes you a better candidate for the job position. You may hate bookwork, but somewhere along the line your going to have to get through it, unless you WANT to change oil at honda forever :eyes:. Find a good Tech School, keep looking until you find exactly what you want. I currently attend Cowley County Community College, per hour of bookwork we get about 2 hours hands on.

What good is hands on if you dont know what the fuck your doing when you walk out to the shop?

Good luck with whatever you decide though I hope it works out for you

if you dont got ocollege/have a rich family/are a badass you should cancel your ls1tech acct. THIS STUFF COSTS MUCHO $$$$$....oh and those automotive schools, be careful, alot of them are garbage, im a recruiter and do hiring/HR and some of the people who come out of these know nothing and have alot of trouble finding jobs... and I live down the street from RHS, comp cams, XFI, holley, NOS etc etc

I think of my current majors(mech engr. and physics) as merely certificates of bullshitting.



Exactly, I'm currently in college (Mech Engineering), I know a handful of engineers and everyone of them has told me their degree doesnt mean shit, everything they know was learned on the job.

I'm like the original poster, I'm hands on tell me I'll go do it. I'm book smart to but god I hate this shit. I have to do what I have to do I guess though, just bite my lip and ride out 3 more years. :bang:

Wow u can really tell who has gone to college and who hasnt on this thread. Stay in school, just look at the stats and the average income of a college grad vs. a non college grad.

Hey if your over at oneonta you could go to Delhi they have automotive technology, i use to go there for a year and a half and i transfered home... but i was feeling the same way as you its rough to do all the required work to achieve a degree but its well worth it. Having transfered home i regret it but i got to spend time with my dad before he passed away and im going to community college now to complete the degree, and i hope to go into business administration when im done with the automotive. Stick it out college can be difficult at times but when you have that degree no matter in what it is in it shows you are hard working, and you can be trained to do something. Good luck and hopefully the girls look better over in Oneanta for you then they did in Delhi for me LoL... for those that dont know there Neighboring towns...

No college here, no regrets.

But you have to be ready for different challenges in life depending on the path you choose, then ask yourself some questions and BE HONEST about the answers. FACT: You don't need to make $150k/year to have a decent life. FACT: It's less about how much you make, and more about what you do with it. FACT: School alone gets you nowhere in life. If you manage to buy your way into a degree without actually learning much of anything, or developing any skills, then any good company will see this in short order and you're time there will be over as quickly as it began. You have to really WANT the degree and career you're going to school for, otherwise don't bother.

I didn't want to deal with student loans or start off my working life in massive debt, nor did I have any real interest in spending more years in school after HS. So I went to work straight away. In the beginning I didn't make much, and by some people's standards I still don't make much today. But I make enough to live in a nice place, have a couple toys parked in the garage, have a nice chunk of cash and investments to my name, and I'll be able to retire early. No, I can't afford a 10 mil estate, or a 90ft indoor pool, or $30k vacations to the finest sections of europe every summer, but I have no desire for those things. My wants are pretty simple, and I don't have super-expensive tastes, so I really don't need a massive 6-figure salary to live what I consider to be a good life.

So first, decide what you want out of life, what you're willing to deal with, and what you need to do to get there.

I just gotta say something about this though.....

2) i don't ever want to worry about working weekends or holidays when i have a family

...Wow. That shows your young age and lack of experiance. Do you honestly beleive that having a degree means you won't ever have to go that extra mile to be sucessful in your career? I work with dozens of college graduates, and every one of them has to put time into their work on weekends or holidays on occasion. That's life if you ever want to move ahead in any modern company. If someone else is willing to do what you are not (and beleive me, someone always is), they will move up and you will not.

^^ What do you do for a living?

WOW, This was two+ years ago.
Glad i got my stuff figured out, doing much better for sure! Can not believe 6 thousand viewed this.
Took 2008/2009 off and opened a shop in Oneonta, NY - had a chance to build the shop with my contractor and then a house on the same property.

Currently going to Suny Delhi for Computer Aided Design and Drafting, after 3 more semisters here plan on going to get some engineering degree - would like a job in safety for all kinds of racecars or maybe for the military.
Shop is still open, now mostly for personal use, and the people who want Dyno time (disappointment machine). I am living at delhi but i come back every weekend to have fun with my toys and i am still working with my contractor on other job sites.