Maggie and new pistons!Need to balance all the internals?
10-18-2007, 04:47 PM
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Maggie and new pistons!Need to balance all the internals? Hello!!
Some questions buds!!
I am going with a Maggie for december, and I was thinking on just leave the stock bottom end the way it is, stock, but then I had second thoughts! A set of new pistons and rod bolts might be a good idea, just to refresh the engine! Will pull 8 pound from the charger, and get net 5.5!! Where I live is at 8,000 ft over sea level and the average is 11,000 DA
We got 12.2 psi of atmospheric pressure down here.
I thought about Mahle pistons and rings, plus some Katech rod bolts, leaving stock rods on their place. The engine has 52,000 miles on it, and the only thing used on it are AFR heads not milled (66cc) and G5X-2 cam (232/240 112 LSA), the average compression on every cylinder is 130 pouds, and as with all LS1 engines stock, some smog at WOT.
Well, to the point!! Do you guys think that by swaping the pistons (-2cc) which are lighter than stock, and adding Katech rod bolts which are supposed to be installed without the need of engine balancing, should I get the whole engine balanced??? OR not?? Or should I just hone the engine to 3.905 for pistons and be done with it?
I should not change main bearings right? Just seat the crank there and install new pistons? MMM!!! Many questions flying around my mind!
PLEASE, any info to make my mind will help greatly! Thanks in advance!
Some questions buds!!
I am going with a Maggie for december, and I was thinking on just leave the stock bottom end the way it is, stock, but then I had second thoughts! A set of new pistons and rod bolts might be a good idea, just to refresh the engine! Will pull 8 pound from the charger, and get net 5.5!! Where I live is at 8,000 ft over sea level and the average is 11,000 DA
We got 12.2 psi of atmospheric pressure down here.I thought about Mahle pistons and rings, plus some Katech rod bolts, leaving stock rods on their place. The engine has 52,000 miles on it, and the only thing used on it are AFR heads not milled (66cc) and G5X-2 cam (232/240 112 LSA), the average compression on every cylinder is 130 pouds, and as with all LS1 engines stock, some smog at WOT.
Well, to the point!! Do you guys think that by swaping the pistons (-2cc) which are lighter than stock, and adding Katech rod bolts which are supposed to be installed without the need of engine balancing, should I get the whole engine balanced??? OR not?? Or should I just hone the engine to 3.905 for pistons and be done with it?
I should not change main bearings right? Just seat the crank there and install new pistons? MMM!!! Many questions flying around my mind!
PLEASE, any info to make my mind will help greatly! Thanks in advance!
10-18-2007, 05:04 PM
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changing the pistons will require a rebalance if the pistons and rings weigh different from the stock pistons and rings.. Might as well change the main and rod bearings while you have it apart. You will need to hone the cylinders for the new rings as well..... I would just hone the engine to 3.905 for pistons and be done with it. I just finished building my new 347 motor. Have 300 miles on it so far..Running like a champ..Also $400 more gets you new forged eagle rods with ARP rod bolts...
Motor details
347ci, Eagle LS1 6.125" rods, 3.905" Diamond -8.6 dish pistons, stock crank, new LS6 block, ARP head studs, custom Comp Cam 226/232 116LSA, Texas speed CNC LS6 stage 2.5 heads 2.04in 1.575 ex valves that I took apart and hand finished, Kooks 1 7/8" headers, ECS dual nozzle meth kit, ported Weiand intake, 9.5:1 compression
Motor details
347ci, Eagle LS1 6.125" rods, 3.905" Diamond -8.6 dish pistons, stock crank, new LS6 block, ARP head studs, custom Comp Cam 226/232 116LSA, Texas speed CNC LS6 stage 2.5 heads 2.04in 1.575 ex valves that I took apart and hand finished, Kooks 1 7/8" headers, ECS dual nozzle meth kit, ported Weiand intake, 9.5:1 compression
10-18-2007, 05:09 PM
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changing the pistons will require a rebalance if the pistons and rings weigh different from the stock pistons and rings.. Might as well change the main and rod bearings while you have it apart. You will need to hone the cylinders for the new rings as well..... I would just hone the engine to 3.905 for pistons and be done with it. I just finished building my new 347 motor. Have 300 miles on it so far..Running like a champ..Also $400 more gets you new forged eagle rods with ARP rod bolts...
Motor details
347ci, Eagle LS1 6.125" rods, 3.905" Diamond -8.6 dish pistons, stock crank, new LS6 block, ARP head studs, custom Comp Cam 226/232 116LSA, Texas speed CNC LS6 stage 2.5 heads 2.04in 1.575 ex valves that I took apart and hand finished, Kooks 1 7/8" headers, ECS dual nozzle meth kit, ported Weiand intake, 9.5:1 compression
Motor details
347ci, Eagle LS1 6.125" rods, 3.905" Diamond -8.6 dish pistons, stock crank, new LS6 block, ARP head studs, custom Comp Cam 226/232 116LSA, Texas speed CNC LS6 stage 2.5 heads 2.04in 1.575 ex valves that I took apart and hand finished, Kooks 1 7/8" headers, ECS dual nozzle meth kit, ported Weiand intake, 9.5:1 compression
That is what my common sense was telling my mind to do
I guess I will just buy the Maggie kit, and install it, be happy for a while, and then build the whole engine with tuffer rods, pistons and the whole deal!! I do not want a bigger engine, all I want is a healthy 347 ci! I will shot for 500+ whp with the Maggie!! Lets hope it leaves me play happy more than enough 
10-18-2007, 05:13 PM
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Thats where I was when I had a Maggie on my car. Ran a 2.9" pulley, saw 11-12psi of boost with a small 224 cam and headers all else stock I was around 500rwhp and trapped 126mph in the 1/4 mile...
10-18-2007, 05:20 PM
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I roadrace the ride! I will also follow the path the the guy with 243 heads and MS4 cam, mid to big cam (mine is a G5X-2 cam), and nice heads (Mine are AFR 205 heads) plus 10.5 static CR!! Lets see if it goes well
Ed from LM is going to help on the SD Tune! 
I will save some, while that happens, lets enjoy the ride!! I have never been on the roots blower equiped car!! I guess is gonna be lots of fun!!
10-20-2007, 12:55 PM
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To hone the motor you will have to pull the crank. I would not use the same bearings once you take the crank out. The crank will probably be OK, but you should check it for straightness, wear, and size. Reginding a crank isn't that much money. Also, you could have a machine shop cut a keyway on the snout too.
Cylinders should be honed with TQ plates, and honed according to the ring manufactors recommendation as for as cross hatch and finish. Different rings require different finishes. And different pistons will require different piston to bore clearances.
I wouldn't waste time or money on the stock rods. You can get some forged rods for $450-$600, depending on brand and bolts that are in the rods.
Also, if you decide to put in some new cam bearings, be sure to take the cam you are going to use to the machine shop and have them check the fit.
I would also recommend decking the block square. And defently rebalance it. The blower will need a pinned or keyed crank snout. IT would be a good idea to do that before rebalancing, to keep it all as perfect as possible. Even though the pin isn't going to cause a balance problem, but if you are rebuilding with forged pistons, might as well do it before the balance if you are going to rebalance.
Cylinders should be honed with TQ plates, and honed according to the ring manufactors recommendation as for as cross hatch and finish. Different rings require different finishes. And different pistons will require different piston to bore clearances.
I wouldn't waste time or money on the stock rods. You can get some forged rods for $450-$600, depending on brand and bolts that are in the rods.
Also, if you decide to put in some new cam bearings, be sure to take the cam you are going to use to the machine shop and have them check the fit.
I would also recommend decking the block square. And defently rebalance it. The blower will need a pinned or keyed crank snout. IT would be a good idea to do that before rebalancing, to keep it all as perfect as possible. Even though the pin isn't going to cause a balance problem, but if you are rebuilding with forged pistons, might as well do it before the balance if you are going to rebalance.
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10-20-2007, 07:43 PM
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To hone the motor you will have to pull the crank. I would not use the same bearings once you take the crank out. The crank will probably be OK, but you should check it for straightness, wear, and size. Reginding a crank isn't that much money. Also, you could have a machine shop cut a keyway on the snout too.
Cylinders should be honed with TQ plates, and honed according to the ring manufactors recommendation as for as cross hatch and finish. Different rings require different finishes. And different pistons will require different piston to bore clearances.
I wouldn't waste time or money on the stock rods. You can get some forged rods for $450-$600, depending on brand and bolts that are in the rods.
Also, if you decide to put in some new cam bearings, be sure to take the cam you are going to use to the machine shop and have them check the fit.
I would also recommend decking the block square. And defently rebalance it. The blower will need a pinned or keyed crank snout. IT would be a good idea to do that before rebalancing, to keep it all as perfect as possible. Even though the pin isn't going to cause a balance problem, but if you are rebuilding with forged pistons, might as well do it before the balance if you are going to rebalance.
Cylinders should be honed with TQ plates, and honed according to the ring manufactors recommendation as for as cross hatch and finish. Different rings require different finishes. And different pistons will require different piston to bore clearances.
I wouldn't waste time or money on the stock rods. You can get some forged rods for $450-$600, depending on brand and bolts that are in the rods.
Also, if you decide to put in some new cam bearings, be sure to take the cam you are going to use to the machine shop and have them check the fit.
I would also recommend decking the block square. And defently rebalance it. The blower will need a pinned or keyed crank snout. IT would be a good idea to do that before rebalancing, to keep it all as perfect as possible. Even though the pin isn't going to cause a balance problem, but if you are rebuilding with forged pistons, might as well do it before the balance if you are going to rebalance.
Thanks you very much for the comments and suggestions!
I will wait a little till I get all the parts to get the engine done in the right way! While that happens I will install the Maggie on the engine. And get some fun.
The only thing that keeps my mind worry is about temperature and the maggie, this on roadracing! I read on the Vette forum that if you want to roadrace a ride with a Maggie on it you should wait about 1 to 2 hours between every "trip" Lets say a trackday
Now I am wondering if that is true? Or is it based on how fast you sping the blower, depending on the pulley size! 
Thanks in advance.
10-20-2007, 09:49 PM
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Rudolph;
I have a maggie on my car that I bought from Ed @ Late Model Speed. It takes some work to install, but nothing that a good shade tree mechanic can't handle. The hardest part for me was the welding, I'm not a welder. Had to get some good help for that. If your staying with a stock bottom end, then stay with the 3.4 pulley, you'll see about 5-7 pounds of boost. Anything more than that and your asking for a big boom on a stock bottom. The MP112 will only push 10 psi effectively, after that it spins and generates more heat and loses efficiency. Ed will work with you to get the tune done right, just let him know exactly what you have in parts and their specs, so he'll know what to help you out with in the kit. Good luck, I can't wait to get home and get back to finishing mine up.
I have a maggie on my car that I bought from Ed @ Late Model Speed. It takes some work to install, but nothing that a good shade tree mechanic can't handle. The hardest part for me was the welding, I'm not a welder. Had to get some good help for that. If your staying with a stock bottom end, then stay with the 3.4 pulley, you'll see about 5-7 pounds of boost. Anything more than that and your asking for a big boom on a stock bottom. The MP112 will only push 10 psi effectively, after that it spins and generates more heat and loses efficiency. Ed will work with you to get the tune done right, just let him know exactly what you have in parts and their specs, so he'll know what to help you out with in the kit. Good luck, I can't wait to get home and get back to finishing mine up.
10-21-2007, 11:06 AM
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Rudolph;
I have a maggie on my car that I bought from Ed @ Late Model Speed. It takes some work to install, but nothing that a good shade tree mechanic can't handle. The hardest part for me was the welding, I'm not a welder. Had to get some good help for that. If your staying with a stock bottom end, then stay with the 3.4 pulley, you'll see about 5-7 pounds of boost. Anything more than that and your asking for a big boom on a stock bottom. The MP112 will only push 10 psi effectively, after that it spins and generates more heat and loses efficiency. Ed will work with you to get the tune done right, just let him know exactly what you have in parts and their specs, so he'll know what to help you out with in the kit. Good luck, I can't wait to get home and get back to finishing mine up.
I have a maggie on my car that I bought from Ed @ Late Model Speed. It takes some work to install, but nothing that a good shade tree mechanic can't handle. The hardest part for me was the welding, I'm not a welder. Had to get some good help for that. If your staying with a stock bottom end, then stay with the 3.4 pulley, you'll see about 5-7 pounds of boost. Anything more than that and your asking for a big boom on a stock bottom. The MP112 will only push 10 psi effectively, after that it spins and generates more heat and loses efficiency. Ed will work with you to get the tune done right, just let him know exactly what you have in parts and their specs, so he'll know what to help you out with in the kit. Good luck, I can't wait to get home and get back to finishing mine up.
I will be using the 7 psi pulley, and see 4.5 to 5 psi, due to the fact of where I live that is at 8,000 ft over sea level, where atmospheric pressure is 12.2 avergare, so any boost I add, I have to pull 2 to 2.5 pounds
My ride is on the 430ish to the wheels, lets see how it goes.BTW, take care and good luck where you are my friend
10-22-2007, 12:43 PM
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Awsome Man. Im glad you decided to go this route. Also something to keep in mind. I am only seeing 5.5-6psi with a 3.2 pulley. But its because of my cam on a 111lsa. Less boost=less heat also which is why im not complaining. Good luck with it and make sure to keep us updated when you get it and all that good stuff. Its a F^(king blast to drive when its done.
10-22-2007, 02:28 PM
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Congrats on going FI in the near future! I would say wait till your engine lets go and just get a fully balanced forged shortblock from a sponsor when the time comes as you will get a warranty and know that everything will be balanced and in order prior to installing. Although adding forged components to your stock ls1 block is a little cheaper I think its much less of a headache in the long run to buy entire shortblock from a sponsor than trying to find a good engine shop to do the work. Good luck and let us know how the install goes!
10-22-2007, 10:48 PM
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Woow!! Thanks a lot guys for the congrats!!
I have been reading and reading about Roots and Centris, and I must say the roots is the one I like the most!! Even with the downs, but in love with the pros!!
BTW, please, just let me know if those that have roadraced the Maggie have experienced high engine temps or something alike! As I said I read that one guy mentioned that after a lot of WOT's the maggie needs at least one hour to cool down!!
Is this true? Or is only based on the boost you are adding? I know that you should not go above 6,500 rpm for sure, due the high temps at that rate!
All I need is comments about the last question I have about the MAggie!! PLease, some input!
I have been reading and reading about Roots and Centris, and I must say the roots is the one I like the most!! Even with the downs, but in love with the pros!!
BTW, please, just let me know if those that have roadraced the Maggie have experienced high engine temps or something alike! As I said I read that one guy mentioned that after a lot of WOT's the maggie needs at least one hour to cool down!!
Is this true? Or is only based on the boost you are adding? I know that you should not go above 6,500 rpm for sure, due the high temps at that rate!All I need is comments about the last question I have about the MAggie!! PLease, some input!
10-23-2007, 04:47 PM
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the maggie water to air intercooler is way to small. Mine heat soaked like crazy at the drag strip, I can't imagine road racing a maggie..Maybe if you added meth injection, a lager water reservoir and a larger heat exchanger to help keep things cool...
10-23-2007, 05:48 PM
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I have seen some videos of Vettes with Maggie chargers, road racing! I wonder if they had use meth and larger heat exchanger!?
Info is the key!
10-23-2007, 07:11 PM
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I tried to look for it using the SEARCH button MANY times, and I did not get what I wanted!! When I search I get info about maggies mechanism and downs about heat and all that stuff, but no matter how much I look for on road racing, I get nothing! Maybe I am not typing the "key" Words
Thanks man.
Last edited by Rudolph; 10-30-2007 at 05:25 PM.
10-23-2007, 07:44 PM
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well it can be done. with the new larger intercooled 122 maggie they offer and the 90mm snout/90mm throttle body, 7-8psi of boost, meth injection and a Dewitts radiator would be a good start. An oil cooler also would be good...The larger 122 shouldn't make as much heat at 7-8psi of boost and meth will keep it cool...
Or the KenneBell is a screw compressor = less heat
Or the KenneBell is a screw compressor = less heat
Last edited by chriswtx; 10-23-2007 at 08:07 PM.
10-24-2007, 01:12 AM
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well it can be done. with the new larger intercooled 122 maggie they offer and the 90mm snout/90mm throttle body, 7-8psi of boost, meth injection and a Dewitts radiator would be a good start. An oil cooler also would be good...The larger 122 shouldn't make as much heat at 7-8psi of boost and meth will keep it cool...
Or the KenneBell is a screw compressor = less heat
Or the KenneBell is a screw compressor = less heat
I guess that cent type is pulling me
