General LSX Automobile Discussion - new muscle cars threat !!!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22340556/

Oh well. The ZR1's badass!

But it is kind of the opposite of what other car manufacturers are attempting to create.

That is kind of sad to see, but it seems just like what happened back in the early 70s. GM is just going to have to work around it and divise new technology. When they came out with the GEN III engines that was revolutionary. I think the new emmision laws suck, but the side effects of pushing GM to create new technology will benefit us all.

PS: Why the hell are they putting such large wheels on the ZR1? The first thing I'd do is buy a nice set of 17s or 18s for it.

^^ It's a track car. Bigger wheels = better feed back to the driver due to thinner sidewall. I know there is a point how big is too big, but i don't hink they were going for bling factor in this case. I think they serve a purpose.

They used to think we'd be in flying cars by now too.....I wouldn't be too worried.

PS: Why the hell are they putting such large wheels on the ZR1? The first thing I'd do is buy a nice set of 17s or 18s for it.

Good luck fitting them over the brakes. :eyes:

They used to think we'd be in flying cars by now too.....I wouldn't be too worried.

The "year 2000" right? :D

I thought that too. Boy were we wrong.

The "year 2000" right? :D

I thought that too. Boy were we wrong.

Yeah, that's why I held out for a 2000 model year car.....what a disappointment.

Not to worried. Even if there are harder restrictions from the factory there will always be an aftermarket and the sponsers on the left to help us out with our go fast needs. :nod: ------------>

thats gonna suck if they essentially kill the muscle car by emissions laws. but like was said before, it pushes gm to build a more fuel efficient car. anything with the same performance with twice the fuel economy will be even more groundbreaking than the gen III

We can thank Al gore and the rest of our liberal tree hugging freinds for this.

Ehh I welcome this regulation with open arms. Why? Let's think about it for a second.

Horsepower is getting out of hand right now. We're at the point where 400 horsepower is nothing. 500+hp cars are coming out from the FACTORY, and with little more than tires and a tune, production cars that your Average Joe can afford (with some responsible spending) are hitting 11's and lower. That's insane. The current horsepower wars are already out of hand IMO, and without regulation, it'll be even MORE out of hand :eek2:

So, regulations will set things back a bit. So what? This will force companies to create engines with the same performance that get a lot better fuel efficiency. It may set things back 10 years, but it'll be worth it. If these regulations are not set, then this would NEVER HAPPEN. Make no mistake about it, if automakers don't have to upgrade their automobile's fuel economy, they won't. Why spend the extra money in R&D if you don't have to?

Besides, these cars will always be available. No matter what NEW regulation has to say, it won't encompass our cars and the current muscle cars they are producing now. They will all be exempt, and these regulations will actually cause our cars to depreciate in value a lot more slowly. These cars will be in demand because they escape the regulation. It'll make these current waves of muscle cars even more sought after and even more special.

I think it's great what they're doing. So what if it sets us back 10 years? Imagine a 400 hp car that gets 35 combined mpg. These regulations are what force automakers to reach for the stars and try something new. Being against these regulations means being content with mediocrity. Embracing these regulations means you thirst for something better. The muscle car isn't going anywhere. It just may have to lay low for awhile.

Look at it like this: if gas was still $0.35/gal and the first wave of emissions standards didn't occur in the 1970's, the LSx platform probably wouldn't exist. Through the ashes, something new and beautiful is born.

We can thank Al gore and the rest of our liberal tree hugging freinds for this.

yea, even though President Bush signed this law into effect :eyes:

yea, even though President Bush signed this law into effect :eyes:

You have to be joking...anybody that pays any attention knows that the democrat party is pushing the "environmental" laws.

I put that in quotes because a lot of it is junk science. For example, and you can easily look this up...in england, the courts have ruled that due to extensive inaccuracies, by law they must give a disclaimer before they show Al Gore's movie in the schools in that country. The sad thing is they still allow it to be shown with the proven lies in it.

For another example, notice you don't hear about the hole in the ozone layer? That's because it was a bunch of unproven crap. They never knew the ozone layer to not have a hole, and it turned out the hole grows and shrinks and has nothing to do with emissions. You can dig deeper if you really want to know some of the underlying reasons for these lies, but they are perpetuated by power hungry people getting paid off by people that want to bring down the united states. Unfortunately, many many many people who don't pay attention beyond the surface of these stories go along with it and make ignorant comments like you did there. [/rant]

Al Gore's movie is pure BS. That chart he used - the one showing carbon dioxide production and temperature increase - you know, where they mirrored so closely - well, what he didn't tell you that carbon dioxide levels increased AFTER the temperature went up! He fed it to you the other way around.

Now, how could this be?

Well, that's because the Earth's temperature is controlled by the sun and jet streams. So, sun output/weather patters change, the Earth heats up and life becomes easier for animals. What do animals exhale? Ah, carbon dioxide. Warmer temperatures = more animals = more carbon dioxide emissions from exhalation.

Or...what else could it be?

Perhaps the increase in temperature was due to an increase in volcanic activity, and what gas comes out of volcanos? Ah, CO2.

It's pure BS. Al Gore cares about the environment because be makes millions caring for the environment. If Al Gore didn't make a dime off his crusades, he wouldn't be doing it. Al Gore likes the paychecks, not the environment.

Have you ever seen his office? The guy has more papers scattered around than a city dump. His house uses more electricity in a month than the average American household in a YEAR! He owns a NICKEL MINE. Mining nickel is one of the worst things you can do to the environment. Mining nickel is soooo much worse than drilling oil. It's one of the worst things you can mine from an environmental standpoint.

I can't believe people are so ignorant and believe this crap. Man, this is why I have no faith in humanity. You can make a movie out of anything these days and people believe it. These are the same idiots that watch Michael Moore movies :eyes:

http://robitaille.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/gore-office.jpg

Your hero at work. 3 HUGE monitors and a bigass TV on at the same time, and he has half a rainforest of trees lying around his office. What a joke.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d173/ChocoTaco369/AlGoreOrb.jpg

Behold, your prophet. Disgusting old man.

You have to be joking...anybody that pays any attention knows that the democrat party is pushing the "environmental" laws.

I put that in quotes because a lot of it is junk science. For example, and you can easily look this up...in england, the courts have ruled that due to extensive inaccuracies, by law they must give a disclaimer before they show Al Gore's movie in the schools in that country. The sad thing is they still allow it to be shown with the proven lies in it.

For another example, notice you don't hear about the hole in the ozone layer? That's because it was a bunch of unproven crap. They never knew the ozone layer to not have a hole, and it turned out the hole grows and shrinks and has nothing to do with emissions. You can dig deeper if you really want to know some of the underlying reasons for these lies, but they are perpetuated by power hungry people getting paid off by people that want to bring down the united states. Unfortunately, many many many people who don't pay attention beyond the surface of these stories go along with it and make ignorant comments like you did there. [/rant]

and, at the end of the day, guess who's name is on the dotted line?

and, at the end of the day, guess who's name is on the dotted line?
What does that have to do with the fact that everyone that believes Al Gore is an idiot?

There's simply no arguing that statement I just made. If you believe Al Gore, you're an idiot. A toolbox. A complete, uneducated moron. All you have to do is put in an hour's worth of research to realize he does nothing but feed you lies. We have less than 0.0001% of the Earth's weather history and WE know climate change?

Did you know 25 years ago, the big concern was global COOLING? Now, it's global WARMING. It's whatever these people can make the most money off of. The average temperature of the Earth hasn't changed in the past 2 or 3 years. Does that mean global warming is over? We're not getting any hotter. The Earth's temperature was hotter in the 1920's than it is now. So, since we're cooler now than we were back then, aren't we in a cooling trend?

Sun cycles last ~11-12 years. It's global warming right NOW. In the next decade, we'll be cooling down.

People's ignorance is terrifying. The scariest thing of all is that you people that believe this crap have the right to vote.

run a catless Y pipe on your car and sit by the exhaust and try to tell everyone that pollution doesn't matter. that is just straight ignorant. and there is no hole in the ozone? you're eyes are closed man, have you ever been to australia?? in many place there they put sunblock on the children at school because the incidence of skin cancer is out of control and you get sunburned like shit there, directly and scientifically linked straight to ozone problems,

i welcome regulation that forces companies to build more efficient cars,

innovation = good for everyone

Excellent post Choco. I think the engineers could do better in terms of efficiency but they haven't had to yet.

Also, Ive been wondering where the horsepower wars will end. People with very little driving experience can go buy cars(and bikes) that are too fast before they are even modified. I'm sure I'm gonna get lynched for this but maybe people should have to take a driving corse and be warned of the risk before they are allowed to drive them home. I saw a kid a couple of years ago get a new GTO and kill himself in a matter of days. And yes I know chevettes can break the speed limit as well. No one wants to hear it but its the truth.

Also the people always look at cars as the big polutor but factories(espiacially in third world countries) are the big polutors. Not cars. Coal burning is another big one. Not here but in other counties.

I didn't say there was no hole in the ozone, what I said was they don't know that there ever wasn't a hole in the ozone layer. Get it? They made a big deal about a hole that has always been there and still grows and shrinks.

Yes you are right pollution is bad. I don't want you puoring mercury in the water or anything. But there is a point where people like Al Gore are lying to you big time. It's sad the people don't want to know about it, they'd just rather fit in and blindly follow and say Bush is an idiot or a liar or the next hitler rather than sound ignorant as they actually are because all they pay attention to in the world is brittney spears and american idol.

What does that have to do with the fact that everyone that believes Al Gore is an idiot?

There's simply no arguing that statement I just made. If you believe Al Gore, you're an idiot. A toolbox. A complete, uneducated moron. All you have to do is put in an hour's worth of research to realize he does nothing but feed you lies. We have less than 0.0001% of the Earth's weather history and WE know climate change?

Did you know 25 years ago, the big concern was global COOLING? Now, it's global WARMING. It's whatever these people can make the most money off of. The average temperature of the Earth hasn't changed in the past 2 or 3 years. Does that mean global warming is over? We're not getting any hotter. The Earth's temperature was hotter in the 1920's than it is now. So, since we're cooler now than we were back then, aren't we in a cooling trend?

Sun cycles last ~11-12 years. It's global warming right NOW. In the next decade, we'll be cooling down.

People's ignorance is terrifying. The scariest thing of all is that you people that believe this crap have the right to vote.
Hey buddy, where did I say I support Al Gore or believe anything he said? Here's what I've posted in this thread:
yea, even though President Bush signed this law into effect :eyes:

and, at the end of the day, guess who's name is on the dotted line?

hmm...nothing about Gore...no mention even of his name. Get off your high horse. The point I'm arguing is that Bush signed it; nothing deeper than that. Disprove me on point, and then maybe you'll look smart because your Strawman fallicies and you putting words in my mouth aren't getting it done.

as long as they don't put any regulation into effect regarding the modification of said cars, who gives a shit? we will still be modding cars to get the amount of power we want, regardless of any regulations on the automakers.

that said, i really do think that fuel economy regulations are good for everyone (except the oil suppliers).

think about it, if the majority of cars out there are forced to meet a certain MPG rating, that will force automakers to step up and innovate to meet those requirements. this leads to more advanced technology, which (in most cases) is a good thing.

also, the less fuel a car uses, the cheaper fuel will be....and i'm sure NO ONE will bitch about that (except, like i said, the oil suppliers).

the less fuel that is being used, the less pollution is being pumped into the atmosphere, which will help keep people, animals, & the environment healthier....that can never be a bad thing.

once they learn how to create engines that get better gas mileage, what happens? they start learning how to pump up the horsepower while using the same amount of fuel.

it's just a temporary setback.....don't get your panties in a twist.

still wont get me to put cats back on my car. they can go DIAF.

im surprised they dont bring up the hummer.

Hey buddy, where did I say I support Al Gore or believe anything he said? Here's what I've posted in this thread:
I never said you supported Al Gore. I simply said anyone that agrees with him is an idiot. That doesn't mean you support him. However, if you do...well...you fill in the blank :D

GWB had to sign something like that into effect. There's too much pressure not to. Any president would have with all the global warming demons breathing down everyone's necks. GWB didn't write the bill. Our overly liberal (and worst rated in the history of the USA) Congress did.


hmm...nothing about Gore...no mention even of his name. Get off your high horse. The point I'm arguing is that Bush signed it; nothing deeper than that. Disprove me on point, and then maybe you'll look smart because your Strawman fallicies and you putting words in my mouth aren't getting it done.
No high horse on my end. Believing in Al Gore is just stupid. If you support him, I pity you. If not, I applaud you for having your own independent thought process. The people that believe Al Gore are the idiots that don't research anything on their own and just believe everything they see and read. They're tools. Spend one night researching and you'll realize the whole global warming argument is BS and soooo many of the scientists are paid off. Plus, most of the people in organizations AREN'T scientists, they're activists, and activists are the worst people to get data from because it's never supported and even if you prove them wrong, you're never right.

So why does global warming have so much support? It's blown down our throats on a daily basis by the hippie-controlled mainstream media, and since most Americans - hell, most of the world - are too stupid to do any research on their own before they take a side, they just assume because it's on TV, it's infallible.

Stupid is a bit harsh of a word I think, maybe naive, ignorant, uninformed sheeple might be better words, but your right on most of what you say taco.

Also, it's unfortunate that so many people bllindly think of talk radio as nerdy and/or hateful, because the reality is that is where the issues are actually discussed between listeners on the air somewhat fairly honestly unlike tv or newspapers. It also gives you important topics and perspectives to research further. Of course it sucks with all the static, but nowadays, you can listen static-free to any station around the country, streaming on the internet. For a directory, I use a site called streamingradioguide, what I do is google the host name in quotes and streamingradioguide and it'll give you links to where you can listen to any show static free online. The most informative guys have to be John Batchelor and Glenn Beck. Plus Glenn Beck is funny as hell. Unfortunately he has a sub until after Christmas, and the sub is nowhere near as good.

http://streamingradioguide.com/radio-show.php?showid=212

The thing about it is, is they have to control all emissions, not just vehicle emissions. They're putting too much pressure on the automakers, but they need to start spreading it around to other companies/corporations, like airlines, industrial factories, and the actual government itself. Fricken Al Gore's private leer jet puts out almost as much co2 emissions in one cross country trip as my car does in a year... so just think that one over...

Al Gore is a tree hugger, he better be driving a Toyota Pruis or his is a hypocrite.

You have to be joking...anybody that pays any attention knows that the democrat party is pushing the "environmental" laws.

Al Gore's movie is pure BS. Disgusting old man.

Al Gore is a tree hugger, he better be driving a Toyota Pruis or his is a hypocrite.

I like you guys. Al Gore is an idiot. He just talks outta his ass.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j222/TheTransAmKid/Funny%20Pictures/goreflametp1.jpg

But we should probably get back on topic before this gets :lock:

We have a section on ssu.com for political discussion.

AL GORE is a better man than many---even that lil' w.

I don't usually agree with what choco says in general, but he does know what he is talking about when it comes to Al Gore.

and +1 to the people that said its not just the US causing the problem with pollution. I'm surprised nobody has mentioned china and the outrageous ammounts of shit they are pumping into the atmosphere from all the industrializtion they have going on over there.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j222/TheTransAmKid/Random%20Pictures/manbearpig23.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j222/TheTransAmKid/Random%20Pictures/manbearpig-bumper-sticker.jpg

"Performance cars of the future may be powered by smaller engines or electric motors, he said, but they won't die."

ooooooooo....I frig'n want to cut that guys pinky off with pruning sheers for saying that!!! Thats an import car way of thought. Domestic=V8

AL GORE is a better man than many---even that lil' w.

You just made a big switch from facts to opinion there friend...

GWB had to sign something like that into effect.
Glad we've reached an agreement



No high horse on my end. Believing in Al Gore is just stupid. If you support him, I pity you. If not, I applaud you for having your own independent thought process. The people that believe Al Gore are the idiots that don't research anything on their own and just believe everything they see and read. They're tools. Spend one night researching and you'll realize the whole global warming argument is BS and soooo many of the scientists are paid off. Plus, most of the people in organizations AREN'T scientists, they're activists, and activists are the worst people to get data from because it's never supported and even if you prove them wrong, you're never right.

So why does global warming have so much support? It's blown down our throats on a daily basis by the hippie-controlled mainstream media, and since most Americans - hell, most of the world - are too stupid to do any research on their own before they take a side, they just assume because it's on TV, it's infallible.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e147/SmokePanther1/StrawmanPoster.jpg

Back to the subject at hand:
Engineers and car designers aren't paid to churn out the same crap, they're paid to create new and better designs. Thusly, this bill is nothing to worry about. You'll still have your 11-second cars...they'll just be getting 35ish MPG and farting out rainbows

Back to the subject at hand:
Engineers and car designers aren't paid to churn out the same crap, they're paid to create new and better designs. Thusly, this bill is nothing to worry about. You'll still have your 11-second cars...they'll just be getting 35ish MPG and farting out rainbows

Lol for a second I thought you were serious until the rainbow part heh.

Sure technology can improve effeciency generally, but in all technologies, eventually you reach a limit to what is possible. You can't go past 100% efficiency. I'm not saying they should or shouldn't make laws to make cars run cleaner, just that sometimes these laws can do good, BUT sometimes they can really do harm.

As a different example, I remember ten years or so ago, they made it law that they had to put that MTBE stuff in the gas to make it burn cleaner. Well it turned out that the burned mtbe fuel turned out to be be more harmful to the environment so they removed it again. Now many are so pro-ethanol...but the drive-by media don't tell you that they use a ton of fuel to creat the ethanol fuel, plus they don't mention that with all the water shortages we are basically burning in our engines all the water used to water that corn. Another one was a bunch of laws caused different states to need different mixes of gasolines in different states, which directly caused gas prices to go up also because they had to have so many different blends.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j222/TheTransAmKid/Random%20Pictures/manbearpig23.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j222/TheTransAmKid/Random%20Pictures/manbearpig-bumper-sticker.jpg

Youtubing that manbearpig episode right now, lol already hehe

:lol: @ ManBearPig!

first of all Al Gore did not create the EPA he invented the internet (his words not mine) Richard Nixon created the EPA. thats the truth.
politics aside efficenty = horsepower
old school street cars if you were making one HP per cube that was pretty much benchmark that you had a perfomance car.
2007= you have the sweet engine option (any car ) its doing that or more stock.
aluminum heads,block,six bolt mains,windage tray,rollercam,sfi,coils per cyl,composite intake\w no hot oil on the bottom of it. and omg carbs!!! was that not that some great drivability BraaaHaaaa!!!
race technology is main stream
i can't wait till they get the voltage up on the electrical systems to at least 36v and cams what the hell is that? all that can be computer controlled.
politicians from both sides are trying to blow smoke up your ass

Im not going to read through all this left vs right crap.....i could care less about the enviorment and emissions, I live in california and have always driven v-8's

ITS NEVER BEEN AN ISSUE FOR ME!!!!

I like you guys. Al Gore is an idiot. He just talks outta his ass.[/IMG]
Al Gore is not an idiot. He's great at what he does. He's making a killing raking in cash hand-over-fist by exploiting the ignorance of the mass public. He's brilliant on the same level as a con artist.

Engineers and car designers aren't paid to churn out the same crap, they're paid to create new and better designs. Thusly, this bill is nothing to worry about. You'll still have your 11-second cars...they'll just be getting 35ish MPG and farting out rainbows
If there were no regulations, it would take 10 times the length of time to achieve the same goal. Hell, it may not happen at all. If there were no regulations, we'd probably run out of oil before the 35 mpg muscle car would be created.

Engineers and car designers ARE paid to churn out the same crap. Look at the companies out there - they're all producing the SAME CAR. They even look the same. Honda, Toyota, Hundai, Nissan...all their cars look the same and have the same features. They're all geared toward the same crowd, and the different classes of cars out there are beginning to merge. Cars are becoming crossovers. It's all the same crap out there and the market is now less inspired than ever!

I go to an engineering college. I KNOW engineers. All my friends are engineers. If there's one thing that engineers DON'T have, it's creativity and inspiration. They wear the same clothes, write with black pens, can't write a paper, spell most things wrong and have less knowledge than a bar of soap when it comes to the fine arts. They're the least creative people in the world, and you think they're full of inspiration? :confused: Have you ever MET an engineer?

Engineers like the same thing - consistency. The best engineers are lazy engineers. Ask any engineer and they'll tell you that. Engineers find the easiest, most consistent way out of all situations. That's what engineering is all about - finding the simple solution that works every time. Guess what that is in the car market? The same, boring, plastic 4-door sedan that gets 32 highway mpg that every single car manufacturer has 3 of in their product line.

Al Gore is not an idiot. He's great at what he does. He's making a killing raking in cash hand-over-fist by exploiting the ignorance of the mass public. He's brilliant on the same level as a con artist.
__________________ that is the best way to sum up al gore.

Engineers...

The exception though, engineers in the high performance industry get to make some cool stuff. Think of working on the dodge tomohawk or the bugatti veyron or working for his name eludes me, mr bigfoot chuck whatsisname, or scaled composites or something...

But you're right though, automotive is such high production numbers industry, it's all about minimizing every penny of production costs over a very large scale. The company that saves the most money in production can sell the best value and wins.

Im not going to read through all this left vs right crap.....i could care less about the enviorment and emissions, I live in california and have always driven v-8's

ITS NEVER BEEN AN ISSUE FOR ME!!!!

A-freaking-men...

A-freaking-men...

whos that girl in your sig? shes hot lol :pimp:

I find it funny that people are so concerned about air pollution in the U.S. I can see it in areas like L.A. where the hills lock their air into the valley, but for the most part, anywhere east of the mountains doesn't have to terrible of air. Well, Anchorage had some bad air too.

You guys want to see some shit air, come to Baghdad, stand on a roof top and look over the city. Baghdad and Anchorage have something in common, they get most of their power from diesel generators. Pretty much everywhere I've been in Iraq, if you can see a light, you can hear a diesel generator running. There are very few hydro electric power plants, I've seen no wind powered generators, and no solar panels. What do they have a shit-load of here in Iraq -- open expanses and tons of sunlight. It's only rained twice since I got here in May. It's sunny nearly everyday.

My point is, people are so worried about what the US is doing about pollution when there are a lot worse offenders around the world. People in Iraq think nothing of pollution. You can see that by walking down the streets in any of their cities.

The US at least has regulations to scrub the air leaving refineries, power plants and factories. It's not like you can find a passage way carved into the dirt like a miniature canal, filled with oil going into a brick factory like you'll see here in Iraq. They just burn the oil to make their bricks and let that thick, rich smoke blow.

But yeah, blame cars for the worlds problems.

I'm not too worried about it. Manufacturers will always find a way to get performance in no matter what the regulations, that's what they get paid for.

al gore is an idiot he couldnt count his balls and get the same answer twice. And screw george bush he's a dumbass If brains were gasoline, he wouldn't have enough to power an ant's motorcycle around the inside of a Cheerio.

The #1 gas that most contributes to global warming is H20.... maybee we should put God on trial?

The dems keep picking some real winners to represent there party.

Liberals do more harm to the US by polluting the minds of uninformed Americans than all terrorist organizations combined.

The fact that John kerry allmost won the last ellection says a lot about how informed the American people are. Kerry was one of the front runners for the groups that spit on our soldiers after returning from nam. He had a statue in a comunist country made in his honor for his treasonist acts against the US after the war. For those that say it didnt happen my father has memories after he returned that suggest otherwise.

I also believe that if Clinton had answered a few of the several terrorist attacks while he was in office 9/11 may have been avoided. We can also give thanks to Clinton for funding the nuclear power plant in North koria.

The fact that John kerry allmost won the last ellection says a lot about how informed the American people are. Kerry was one of the front runners for the groups that spit on our soldiers after returning from nam. He had a statue in a comunist country made in his honor for his treasonist acts against the US after the war. For those that say it didnt happen my father has memories after he returned that suggest otherwise.



Even worse, after his record time setting tour, he without authorization, traveled and met with the enemy leadership on his own free will and confessed to them unprovable american atrocities in nam. I've seen footage of him giving detailed descriptions of specifiec atrocities commited by us men, well then why didn't he stop them at the time? That guy...

represent there party.
allmost won
North koria.

Uninformed americans like the one above. Shit happens and we deal with it. as for nuclear who gives a shit the US owns 90% of the nuclear weapons on the plannet. if we want a nuclear free plannet we need to set the example. I work with a guy that said in iraq they would go into villages at 3 in the morning and kick in doors on the houses to look for insurgents. screw that if some foreign soldier kicked my door in at 3 in the morning i'd be pretty pissed. its no wonder why we have so many enemys. These people didnt just wake up one day and say I think i'll hate america today. The doors were kicking in maybe one of those doors is the door of a future dictators house and 20 years from now when hes in power he'll say those american assholes are gonna get what they deserve. as for the epa were screwed gas is only going up and we have to have it. even if it cost $.10 a gallon to make ethanol. were paying $3.25 or better now so if were willing to pay that for gasoline why would they charge much less for E85

Uninformed americans like the one above. Shit happens and we deal with it. as for nuclear who gives a shit the US owns 90% of the nuclear weapons on the plannet. if we want a nuclear free plannet we need to set the example. I work with a guy that said in iraq they would go into villages at 3 in the morning and kick in doors on the houses to look for insurgents. screw that if some foreign soldier kicked my door in at 3 in the morning i'd be pretty pissed. its no wonder why we have so many enemys. These people didnt just wake up one day and say I think i'll hate america today. The doors were kicking in maybe one of those doors is the door of a future dictators house and 20 years from now when hes in power he'll say those american assholes are gonna get what they deserve. as for the epa were screwed gas is only going up and we have to have it. even if it cost $.10 a gallon to make ethanol. were paying $3.25 or better now so if were willing to pay that for gasoline why would they charge much less for E85

Those "foreign soldiers" are putting their lives on the line to protect you and your family and all of us. 2001 proved that we are at war and people who know things you and I don't say we need to do this to protect america. If you think the other side is right, then go fight with them.

hey fuck the other side my cousin gene has been to afghanistan and made 3 trips to turkey and my cousin tommy has been to kuwait twice. god bless everyone that has fought over there and any of the families that have lost loved ones my cousin gene gets 3mo home 3mo overseas. I was talking to the marines and was diagnosed with a chronic illness(cant join). I'm no liberal tree hugger but I'm not a right wing bomb enthusiast either. weve tried and tied and nothing works over there. I wish I knew a for sure solution. everyday i hear another soldier has died and it hasnt hit close to home for me yet but i dont want it to. were fighting an idea. years and years ago our country had an idea freedom and if we hadnt won the revoloution we wouldnt have said well guys no freedom for us lets all have tea and crumpets. people cant be forced into submission you have to change their way of thinking.

Just because the drive-by media and you say something isnt' working doesn't make it so or not. You and I do not get the important information to even pretend to know if the true goals are being met or not. If you disagree with what's going on, elect someone with what you think is a better solution. Do you have a better solution or just to declare peace on earth, do you think that will really work? Until the next election, the current govt has to make decisions based on information only they have.

gm just needs to make a car that makes 500rwhp and gets 50mpg and by doing this there would be a mass celebration followed by an everlasting world peace.

Uninformed americans like the one above. Shit happens and we deal with it. as for nuclear who gives a shit the US owns 90% of the nuclear weapons on the plannet. if we want a nuclear free plannet we need to set the example. I work with a guy that said in iraq they would go into villages at 3 in the morning and kick in doors on the houses to look for insurgents. screw that if some foreign soldier kicked my door in at 3 in the morning i'd be pretty pissed. its no wonder why we have so many enemys. These people didnt just wake up one day and say I think i'll hate america today. The doors were kicking in maybe one of those doors is the door of a future dictators house and 20 years from now when hes in power he'll say those american assholes are gonna get what they deserve. as for the epa were screwed gas is only going up and we have to have it. even if it cost $.10 a gallon to make ethanol. were paying $3.25 or better now so if were willing to pay that for gasoline why would they charge much less for E85

There is a big difference between us, them and the way we use our power or intend to use it. If it werent for the US policing the rest of the world we might have all been dead a long time ago.

And for those villages you speak of, at least there able to sleep at night without fear of chemical weapons being tested on them and there children. Most of these people have lived there entire lives without law/order. You cannot expect to change that in a few years. There way of life is improving every day as well as there childrens futures.

As Americans we take things for granted and cannot begin to realize the magnatude of just how fortunate we are.

My thanks to all who serve or have served our country.

I love this country and everything it stands for.

hey fuck the other side my cousin gene has been to afghanistan and made 3 trips to turkey and my cousin tommy has been to kuwait twice. god bless everyone that has fought over there and any of the families that have lost loved ones my cousin gene gets 3mo home 3mo overseas. I was talking to the marines and was diagnosed with a chronic illness(cant join). I'm no liberal tree hugger but I'm not a right wing bomb enthusiast either. weve tried and tied and nothing works over there. I wish I knew a for sure solution. everyday i hear another soldier has died and it hasnt hit close to home for me yet but i dont want it to. were fighting an idea. years and years ago our country had an idea freedom and if we hadnt won the revoloution we wouldnt have said well guys no freedom for us lets all have tea and crumpets. people cant be forced into submission you have to change their way of thinking.

and what way of thinking is that? contrary to what you hear about from the media, in iraq there are insurgents like those from al qaida that are fighting jihad against americans and there are nationalist insurgents that feel they are fighting a U.S. occupation, well long story short a lot of those nationalist insurgents have joined us. heard anything about the turnaround of anbar province? throughout 2006 Ramadi was one of the most dangerous places in Iraq. today you'd be safer as an american tourist in western clothes than you would as a foreign al qaida fighter. your suggestion that nothing is working is complete shit. whether you agree with the reasons for coming to iraq in the first place or whether you feel that the cost has been too high, we have made significant progress in building this country from the ground up. and the Iraqis themselves have more to do with that than us. just remember it's a lot more complex than USA vs. the bad guys.

well getting back to muscle cars threat i believe that more restrictions will open up more of an aftermarket for cars made before any of the new regulations. but build a better mouse trap so i think theres plenty of hope for the cars to come

Unilateral legislation is worthless. Try asking China to reduce emissions see what they say. They still flare excess natural gas and just figured out that they can make plastic out of ethylene instead of flaring that too. Anyway, the legislation was a huge compromise for congress and a win for Bush. The original bill would have destroyed this economy. Look it up in its original form. Big waste of time. It will do nothing for the environment. Global warming is a natural occurance, and cars that get a few more mpg isn't gonna help.

They used to think we'd be in flying cars by now too.....I wouldn't be too worried. Yea! Whats up with that! I used to hear and believe that too. :ripped:

Yep I wanted one like George Jetson!!!!! :eyes::ripped:

http://robitaille.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/gore-office.jpg
This Clown sold out our military to china. Now his bitches are attempting to sell our auto industry to China. Be careful of who you vote for. Real Americans refuse to be bought or sold. Real AMERICANS WOULD NOT CONSIDER SELLING ONE ANOTHER!!!!

http://robitaille.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/gore-office.jpg
This Clown sold out our military to china. Now his bitches are attempting to sell our auto industry to China. Be careful of who you vote for. Real Americans refuse to be bought or sold. Real AMERICANS WOULD NOT CONSIDER SELLING ONE ANOTHER!!!!

What do you think the carbon footprint is on those three monitors...By the way, he and his crew slashed the military budgets in the 90's, and now they complain we didn't send enough guys to the war...maybe if they hadn't closed half the military bases!

What do you think the carbon footprint is on those three monitors...By the way, he and his crew slashed the military budgets in the 90's, and now they complain we didn't send enough guys to the war...maybe if they hadn't closed half the military bases!

The carbon footprint is about the same as it costs to make a gallon of E85 HaHa. Hey Algore.... :gtfo: What a joke.......And people actually believe all this crap.....

Al gore consumes more natural gas and electricity in a month to run his pool house alone than the average american does in a year. He flies around in his private jet burning thousands of gallons of fuel preaching about energy consumption and global warming. This being the worse kind of polution since its released so high in the atmosphere.

At the same time George bushes home that he built in Crawford Texas was one of the first Geo thermal homes built and consumes far less energy than the average american household. When it was first built it was a role model home that was in several publications for being the future in energy saving homes.

Lead by example!

Don't confuse dem with the facts ok? It works better for them just to say bush is soo stuped he lied people died the neocon...