View Full Version : The new ZR1 clutch.


raceme@you'dlose.com
01-05-2008, 10:56 AM
I read that the new ZR1 is going to have a twin disk so I got to thinking is this going to be the next "best" clutch to use in our F-Bodies? I'm assuming it will be very streetable and if it will hold 620 HP it should be the perfect street/strip setup. Any thoughts?

TheLS1Kid
01-05-2008, 11:33 AM
I think it would be badass.

MeentSS02
01-05-2008, 12:28 PM
It will never work, and here's why:

Nestled inside the cylinder block is a forged steel crankshaft that delivers the LS9's 3.62-inch (92 mm) stroke. It features a smaller-diameter ignition-triggering reluctor wheel and a nine-bolt flange - the outer face of the crankshaft on which the flywheel is mounted - that provides more clamping strength. Other non-supercharged 6.2L engines, such as the base Corvette's LS3, have a six-bolt flange. A torsional damper mounted to the front of the crankshaft features a keyway and friction washer, which also is designed to support the engine's high loads.


Source: http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/vemp_0712w_ls9_engine_details/index.html

MeentSS02
01-05-2008, 12:45 PM
I'm wondering if that information should be made a sticky? I have a feeling a LOT of people are going to be asking this same question.

TheLS1Kid
01-05-2008, 01:32 PM
I'm wondering if that information should be made a sticky? I have a feeling a LOT of people are going to be asking this same question.
Damn good info. What a big disappointment.

I agree on the sticky.

MeentSS02
01-05-2008, 01:41 PM
Damn good info. What a big disappointment.

I felt the same way :( GMPP would stand to make a lot of money if they made a dual disk clutch like this that would work on the older Gen III and IV engines...it would be perfect for 95% of people out there doing moderate performance builds.

raceme@you'dlose.com
01-05-2008, 01:46 PM
I wonder if the clutch and pressure plate would work with the LS2/ LS7 flywheel since the LS9 flywheel definately won't work. I guess we'll have to wait and see. I hope it will because I think it would be a great clutch at least on paper.

MeentSS02
01-05-2008, 04:18 PM
I wonder if the clutch and pressure plate would work with the LS2/ LS7 flywheel since the LS9 flywheel definately won't work. I guess we'll have to wait and see. I hope it will because I think it would be a great clutch at least on paper.

That would be the only hope...it would be really nice, that's for sure.

wrd1972
01-06-2008, 07:39 AM
Guess GM does not want your guys money.
Why could a good machinist not drill the nine hole bolt pattern in the flywheel?

raceme@you'dlose.com
01-06-2008, 09:58 AM
Guess GM does not want your guys money.
Why could a good machinist not drill the nine hole bolt pattern in the flywheel?

That could probably be done but I don't know if I would want to. I think that could lead to several problems but that's just my opinion. I am sure that someone will either try the crank in our engines or the best case would be that the clutch and pressure plate will bolt up to the LS2/ LS7 flywheel. I don't think that GM would design a new engine that wouldn't at least have some interchangablity with previous LS motors. JMHO.

P Mack
01-08-2008, 01:42 PM
Someone would just need to design a new flywheel for it. Couldn't be that hard.

02silvaZ
01-08-2008, 02:41 PM
wow i hope they find a way to make this work

BanditTA
01-08-2008, 02:43 PM
Why could a good machinist not drill the nine hole bolt pattern in the flywheel?

I've done this on other projects in the past, never had any issues, usually to run a smaller TC. Then again that was a flexplate, not a flywheel, same difference.

Josh@MASPORT
01-08-2008, 06:03 PM
making a new flywheel with 6 bolts should not be an issue

MeentSS02
01-08-2008, 08:53 PM
making a new flywheel with 6 bolts should not be an issue

That would be the best option...an aftermarket company stepping up to the plate to make one would stand to make a lot of money, provided it doesn't also use some funky type of slave (or master) cylinder.

Project GatTagO
01-12-2008, 11:36 PM
Does anyone have pictures of the ZR1 clutch?

From looking at the ZR1 flywheel picture, it looks like a flat flywheel, similar to the LS1 flywheel. Not like the stepped LS2/7 flywheel.

I bet 50 bucks that the twin disk will bolt to an LS1 flywheel. If not, it would be nothing for a machine shop to drill new bolt and dowel pin holes.

Andrew

iansane
09-18-2008, 04:14 PM
Does anyone have pictures of the ZR1 clutch?

From looking at the ZR1 flywheel picture, it looks like a flat flywheel, similar to the LS1 flywheel. Not like the stepped LS2/7 flywheel.

I bet 50 bucks that the twin disk will bolt to an LS1 flywheel. If not, it would be nothing for a machine shop to drill new bolt and dowel pin holes.

Andrew


I know this is an antique thread but is this an option or just silly crazy talk? :D

Project GatTagO
09-18-2008, 04:24 PM
I know this is an antique thread but is this an option or just silly crazy talk? :D

It might be an option. Just have to see the design of the clutch.

Andrew

2000_SS
09-20-2008, 04:30 PM
solution: run a ZR1 crank too :D

N4cer
09-22-2008, 02:03 PM
So are these available at all now? I'm sure a machinist could drill the holes and re-balance the assembly.

iansane
09-30-2008, 09:51 PM
It might be an option. Just have to see the design of the clutch.

Andrew


Comparo of the LS9 flywheel and standard LS1 flywheel.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v521/iansane/0930081307.jpg

LS1:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v521/iansane/0930081308.jpg

LS9:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v521/iansane/0930081307a.jpg


I'm going to a local guy tomorrow to see if he can weld/redrill the ls9 flywheel for a standard 6 bolt pattern.

EDIT: Anyone have pictures/measurements of an LS2 flywheel to see if maybe it can be used?

Project GatTagO
09-30-2008, 10:23 PM
Awesome pictures. I have an LS2 flywheel/LS7 clutch combo in my car. From the looks of it, the LS9 disks are a smaller diameter. This makes sense since it is a dual disk clutch. I bet it will not take long for an after market company to come out with a hybrid flywheel. One that can accommodate the LS9 clutch and bolt to a standard 6 bolt LS1/2/3/6/7 crank.

Andrew

GNXClone
10-07-2008, 10:31 AM
Assuming one overcame the flywheel incompatibility...Do the clutch disks themselves have compatible splines for a T56 input shaft?

Project GatTagO
10-07-2008, 10:35 AM
Assuming one overcame the flywheel incompatibility...Do the clutch disks themselves have compatible splines for a T56 input shaft?

I would assume so, but that remains to be confirmed.

Andrew

GNXClone
10-07-2008, 11:15 AM
Another thought. What about the '09 CTS-v LSA twin clutch? It's not as stout as the LS9, but the press release claims the LSA uses a "less exotic forged crank". Maybe the LSA uses a 6-bolt crank...googling.... ;-)

Edit: Nevermind -> "steel crankshaft w/ 8-bolt flange"

Project GatTagO
10-07-2008, 11:21 AM
I wish there was a picture of the actual clutch components floating around somewhere.

Andrew

Project GatTagO
10-07-2008, 11:21 AM
Another thought. What about the '09 CTS-v LSA twin clutch? It's not as stout as the LS9, but the press release claims the LSA uses a "less exotic forged crank". Maybe the LSA uses a 6-bolt crank...googling.... ;-)

Edit: Nevermind -> "steel crankshaft w/ 8-bolt flange"

9-bolt flange :D

Andrew

iansane
10-07-2008, 10:58 PM
I wish there was a picture of the actual clutch components floating around somewhere.

Andrew


I'm ordering the dual disc clutch as we speak. Should be in, in a few days.

Project GatTagO
10-08-2008, 09:40 AM
I'm ordering the dual disc clutch as we speak. Should be in, in a few days.

Excellent!

Mind posting the part numbers and approximate cost?

Andrew

GNXClone
10-08-2008, 03:27 PM
LS9 Flywheel -- 12598613 -- $257
LS9 Clutch -- 24237568 -- $625

From: http://www.teamzr1.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2799

GNXClone
10-16-2008, 11:51 AM
Did you get your parts iansane?

WSsick
10-16-2008, 12:00 PM
damn, thatd be a big $$ maker for GMPP. but there are twin discs out now you can buy.

i think all the zr1 parts should be in a sticky. people have asked about the blower, now the clutch/flywheel, so whats next? +1 for the sticky.

iansane
10-16-2008, 07:01 PM
Did you get your parts iansane?

I didn't. I cancelled the order after talking to the guy that was going to redrill the flywheel. He said he didn't want to attempt it on cast iron. So I just went with the ls7 setup. Now I stock an LS9 flywheel. Haha.

Hans Grüber
10-21-2008, 11:25 PM
I wish there was a picture of the actual clutch components floating around somewhere.


Click links for high resolution.

http://gm.wieck.com/forms/gm/previewpage?049060

http://us.tnpv.net/2008/GMC200809/GMC2008090954595_PV.jpg

http://gm.wieck.com/forms/gm/previewpage?049059

http://us.tnpv.net/2008/GMC200809/GMC2008090954613_PV.jpg

http://gm.wieck.com/forms/gm/previewpage?049058

http://us.tnpv.net/2008/GMC200809/GMC2008090954576_PV.jpg

http://gm.wieck.com/forms/gm/previewpage?049057

http://us.tnpv.net/2008/GMC200809/GMC2008090954559_PV.jpg

Project GatTagO
10-21-2008, 11:34 PM
Beautiful clutch.

Andrew

on2
10-22-2008, 09:12 AM
I must be blind; I see only one clutch disc. Good chance for someone interested to count the splines on the disc.

Project GatTagO
10-22-2008, 09:33 AM
I must be blind; I see only one clutch disc. Good chance for someone interested to count the splines on the disc.

There are two disks. See attached picture. I have not counted the splines, but I would be very surprised if it is anything besides 26 spline. All that would be needed to use this clutch on an LS1/2/3/4/6/7 would be a custom flywheel that has the proper crank bolt pattern and the ZR1 clutch bolt pattern. The problem I see for companies like Spec, Ram or Centerforce is that developing such a flywheel would hurt their clutch sales. Perhaps Fidanza can step up to the plate.

Andrew

on2
10-22-2008, 10:19 AM
Fidanza makes clutches too.

Project GatTagO
10-22-2008, 10:24 AM
Fidanza makes clutches too.

Fidanza sells clutches. It would be a stretch to say that them make clutches. I would also bet that their clutch business is a fraction of their flywheel business.

Andrew

LSGunZ28
10-22-2008, 11:43 PM
It will never work, and here's why:



Source: http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/vemp_0712w_ls9_engine_details/index.html

what of they are able to make an adapter from 6 bolt to 9 bolt and make a slightly recessed flywheel in that area and thinner in some areas so the flywheel teeth still contact the starter?

Project GatTagO
10-23-2008, 10:25 AM
what of they are able to make an adapter from 6 bolt to 9 bolt and make a slightly recessed flywheel in that area and thinner in some areas so the flywheel teeth still contact the starter?

Adapters are scary. It is not just a matter of a proper bolt patter. The flywheel also fits tightly on the crank to make sure that it is centered. If you use an adapter it will push the center of the flywheel out. There really isn't much room left to accommodate bolts. You also start running out of room inside the bellhousing and alter the overall installed height of the clutch which changes the relationship with the TOB.

A custom flywheel is really not rocket science. I hope someone makes it happen.

Andrew

on2
10-23-2008, 11:25 AM
sounds like a bad idea.