User Support & Resources - Can the admins please define "sponsor bashing" for us?

As the subject says, I'd like to know what counts as sponsor bashing.
In evaluating internal engine parts for an engine, I believe that a part should be evaluated truthfully and without bias. Any less would be a disservice to the fellow enthusiast. Sponsors of this site should be competing for our business with the best possible parts and services. If a sponsor would hold its advertising $$$ against the site as reason to eliminate negative reviews, that in itself would be a disservice to its customers, and something that I hope the owners of the site understand is inappropriate.
Some of the members of this board have been treated poorly by various sponsors. If they have a legitimate complaint, I dont understand how including or voicing this complaint in more than one thread (when appropriate or when the subject is brought up by other members) becomes "sponsor bashing" so quickly. I agree that an irate or irrational member can take a complaint to far, often raising the subject countless times or in off-topic ways... BUT, I am beginning to feel that negative reviews are being squelched for the benefit of the sponsor in question.
Surely, LS1Tech.com believes its members are as important as the sponsors.

Thank you for your consideration of this issue, and I hope that we can come to a full and pleasant understanding of the limits.

Chris

LS1TECH allows members to post facts and details about sponsors, whether it be good or bad.

We do NOT allow flaming, bandwagoning, or false accusations. If you have a problem with a sponsor, feel free to post it in the feedback forum. We also ask that you post current issues, not problems from years back, and that you make an effort to resolve the issue with the sponsor directly before posting here. As long as you keep things factual, and professional, we will allow it to remain.

One thread per issue, no bandwagoning in the same thread. Please do not post heresay. If you were not directly involved, do not make accusations based upon a friend of a friend or something you saw posted on the net.

Ragtop summed it up perfectly. If you do have a complaint, please use the feedback forum located in the Sales and Sponsor section of the site.

We will do our best to get things resolved for you.

Tony

The thread in question was about ENGINE related performance reguarding a sponsors OLD heads and all of this was clearly stated.

It was:
1) Factual
2) Dealing with internal engine (thus, in the right forum)
3) Seemed professional enough except for the guy (ryan?) chiming in with the "I told ya so" BS.

The thread in question should not have been deleted, and I totally agree that it is a disservice to let factual objective threads get deleted like they were. Isn't this half the reason people left ls1.com and came HERE? It was for me.

(Note, I only read the thread up until late last night, so maybe it went very quickly downhill this morning before somebody deleted it)

We also ask that you post current issues, not problems from years back, and that you make an effort to resolve the issue with the sponsor directly before posting here.



Is an issue current insofar as its relevance to a current thread? ie, Member A relates that his Brand X oil pump was put together with the wrong bolts when it was installed 2 years ago, and now his oil pump has catastrophically failed. Member B notes in a thread that his oil pump from Brand X was found 2 years ago to also have been assembled with the wrong bolts. Members C through Z now appropriately wonder if they have bad brand X oil pumps.

Was member B's actions of relating a 2 year old occurance inappropriate? I would judge not.

Do you agree?

I am not trying to be confrontational... merely trying to come to an understanding as to how my experiences with a vendor can help others in the future, or even past customers in the future.

Chris

I will be very short.Guys we all know sponsors pay the bills at this site.ARE is doing a big $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ build for me at this moment.I will give an honest report when I get some passes in.I think the "My friends,friend heard this" BS has got to go.Stating facts in a non-confrontational way should be allowed though.

I will be very short.Guys we all know sponsors pay the bills at this site.ARE is doing a big $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ build for me at this moment.I will give an honest report when I get some passes in.I think the "My friends,friend heard this" BS has got to go.Stating facts in a non-confrontational way should be allowed though.



true, any data is helpful... But in some ways, thats the knee-jerk reactions to critique that the admins are probably legitimately guarding against. In a thread about ppl discovering huge power in re-porting old high-$ ARE heads, we wouldnt want people concluding "ARE resleeved blocks suck!" for instance. What we want to do is let people know that older ARE heads may warrant some attention. Many people know, for instance, that ARE made a significant management change a year or so ago. In a thread that names a vendor, each experience with that vendor is ONE peice of data, which when added to others should help you make an educated decision about a purchase. Unfortunately not everyone can be counted apon for mature response (and Im not talking about ARE422DP).

Lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater. (a strangely close-to-home analogy ;) )

chris

Visceral:
Member A is fine to bring it up since he just discovered the problem, even though the part was installed 2 years ago. If member B factually reports that he had the same issue (i.e. no flaming) that is fine; maybe C - Z who bought the same part 2 years ago might want to inspect their pump too.

If member B states that member AA should not buy a USED pump today because of a bad batch 2 years ago, that is a reasonable warning if handled in a non-flame manner. However, if member B states that member AA should not buy a NEW pump today because of a bad batch 2 years ago, I would question whether that is a fair conclusion.

So then the most recent thread that was deleted in Internal Engine ("you know the one")... For what reason was it deleted?

I did not approve of any thread to be deleted. IN fact, I never even read the thread that was deleted. Please do not assume that "The Admin" are "guarding" things if a thread disappears. PSJ is out ot town, Colonel isn't around much lately. Brains could probably care less about that crap. That just leaves me, and I didn't screw with it.

From now on, controversial threads will be moved to the Admin forum, not deleted. We will then decide if the thread should be returned, locked and returned, or left in the Admin section.

If you feel the thread in question had technical value and belonged in the internal engine section, please feel free to repost.

Tony

I think the discussions that I read were reasonable, and hit close to home for me because I experienced the same problem with my ARE heads and also did have some success re-porting them(although I feel they are still not quite right).

Why does this keep coming up after 2 years you ask? Well because everything from that time period was deleted, and 2 years ago or not, people are still having problems with these heads. Yes ARE has new management, you have to be living under a rock not to know that, but for me that made no difference -- numerous emails and phone calls were not returned as recently as a year ago. That 2 years ago crap should not be a blanket for covering up problems that are out there and continue to exist -- I could see locking the post, but deleting an informational post such as that one is wrong. I go to this site for information, and I dont expect my information to filtered down to the point of being useless.

I'm still trying to figure out what post we're all talking about -- I've been turning wrenches all day :)

Brian - I think Scott 98Z M6 sp? started it. It was talking about his results from reporting an old set of heads he had.

If wasn't too bad a thread except for some unnecessary comments from maybe one-two people. It was in the internal engine section. It's gone now though unless you can work some of your magic on the server??? :eek2:

John

Like I already stated, please feel free to start a new thread. Our apologies if something was deleted that was useful for everyone.

PS, none of our old tech posts are ever deleted. We have the first year's worth of posts located in the Internal Engine Archive forum.

Tony

Just for the record, I didn't delete that post, recommend that it be deleted, nor did I even know that it had been until a few minutes ago.

However, I did read much of the thread and for the most part it was ok. I wouldn't have deleted it.

Im pretty sure that Chris "ARE" 360 was the one, only because he was threatening to delete it for "sponsor bashing" reasons directly prior to this incident. If the thread would be tolerated in the future, thats enough for me. I dont need to determine "who", only if there was a "why". Thanks all...

chris

Chris admitted to deleting it, but says he did it by accident while trying to delete some of the more immature or flame-starter type replies. This issue is closed, please post the thread again if you wish. No more beating this over-dead horse.

Tony :judge: