View Full Version : MS3 cam question


Joey7489
02-06-2008, 09:05 PM
Just got an MS3.
Before I ordered I talked to Jon at Texasspeed who told me "The MS3 is the biggest cam that we offer that you can use with your heads without having to flycut."

However, I called in to double check today before I put it in, and the other Jon informed me that this cam will not fit with the PRC 5.3L 220cc 2.5 heads without a valve job.
I think when you order the heads you have to specify if your going to be running the MS3 and they will go ahead and perform the valve job before sending the heads out, however I never specified because I ordered the Torquer II originally and recently decided to upgrade.

What Im wondering is has anyone run the MS3 with these heads without flycutting or doing the valve job?
How much clearance did you have?


I donot want to have to pull my heads off again, Ill prob just end up selling the MS3 if it comes down to that.


Suggestions?

COOKIE MONSTER
02-06-2008, 09:10 PM
You missunderstood. Trust me, I have the MS3 and I have PRC Stage 2.5 5.3L Heads with a "5 angle vavle job (porting not fly cutting)", and I DID NOT need to fly cut.

Plus, TSP does sell a bigger cam that also does not require a FLY Cut.... the MS4

Joey7489
02-06-2008, 09:13 PM
You missunderstood. Trust me, I have the MS3 and I have PRC Stage 2.5 5.3L Heads with a "5 angle vavle job (porting not fly cutting)", and I DID NOT need to fly cut.

Plus, TSP does sell a bigger cam that also does not require a FLY Cut.... the MS4





I have the PRC 5.3L 2.5 220cc heads... Untouched.. No milling nothing.. Just straight from TSP.. Are you SURE this MS3 will fit without any clearance issues?

COOKIE MONSTER
02-06-2008, 09:15 PM
Yes, 1,000,000% sure.
Call 806-866-0734 (TSP) and talk to Trevor, the owner. He WILL say the same thing.

Joey7489
02-06-2008, 09:16 PM
Yes, 1,000,000% sure.
Call 806-866-0734 (TSP) and talk to Trevor, the owner. He WILL say the same thing.

I dont know why Jon told me it wouldnt work then.

hndakilr
02-06-2008, 09:17 PM
dont worry about it, it will work, maybe he got mixed up

The Dragon
02-06-2008, 09:26 PM
I dont know why Jon told me it wouldnt work then.

There was a miscommunication. Those heads wil not work with the MS4 camshaft. The lift on the MS4 is just too high to clear.

Your MS3 will work with those heads.

COOKIE MONSTER
02-06-2008, 09:26 PM
I dont know why Jon told me it wouldnt work then.

Hate to say it, but TSP has (2) Johns that work the phones there, 1 john knows what hes talking about, the other kinda doesn't know what he's talking about.
But if you talk to Matt, you're #&@(^!

Trevor is the man, he knows his shit, and will give you a recipe for success!

COOKIE MONSTER
02-06-2008, 09:28 PM
There was a miscommunication. Those heads wil not work with the MS4 camshaft. The lift on the MS4 is just too high to clear.

Your MS3 will work with those heads.

I'm pretty sure the Ls1 heads will lift up to .650 or is it .600???
the MS4 lifts to .649

I know for 1,000,000% sure they'll work with LS6 heads.

Joey7489
02-06-2008, 09:28 PM
hmmmm... This makes me feel alot better. fucking yesssss i can put the ms3 in after all :D:D:D:D



Has anybody heard of what I am talking about tho? Getting TSP to install shorter valves for the valves to clear the piston?

COOKIE MONSTER
02-06-2008, 09:36 PM
Don't worry about it, I'll Pm you tomorrow and let you know what Trevor said, but I would suggest calling him yourself tomorrow, waiting for 20mins on hold to talk to trevor, and tell him the deal...

Joey7489
02-06-2008, 09:44 PM
If ordered together they set up the heads so no flycutting is required, i run this combo and i did not flycutt, works great


We offer a PRC stage 2.5 5.3l head specifically configured for the MS3 camshaft. :) :)

One of my employees has a 475+rwhp daily driver setup just like that! Just make sure you order the combo specifically for the MS3 camshaft & you should be fine!



Hmm.....

COOKIE MONSTER
02-06-2008, 09:57 PM
Call tomorrow, we'll figure it out.

Jasonscott
02-06-2008, 10:00 PM
hmmmm... This makes me feel alot better. fucking yesssss i can put the ms3 in after all :D:D:D:D



Has anybody heard of what I am talking about tho? Getting TSP to install shorter valves for the valves to clear the piston?


they dont install shorter valves. they must machine the head down where the valve seals so it is sunk into the head more. Iv read about this in other threads. you actually may have to have that done. id call tsp and double check one more time.

john563
02-07-2008, 04:31 AM
I have those heads with a tr224/112. I wanted to go ms3,but was told I had to send the heads back to sink the valves. Had I ordered the heads with the ms3 it would have been done that way,but since i did not i had to remove and send back. I now have a custom by pat G and it measures 232/238 and it will fit so I'm going to install it

Camaro396
02-07-2008, 10:10 AM
I know the MS4 works with stock heads :)

Jon@Texas-Speed
02-07-2008, 10:40 AM
Alright guys, let me help you guys figure out what's going on here. You CAN purchase this setup (MS3/PRC 2.5 5.3L heads)and make it work without issue. However, if you want to run the MS3 cam, you MUST specify that you are running that cam when you order the heads. If you don't, then the valvejob isn't setup for the MS3 cam and there will NOT be sufficient PTV clearance. In this case, I don't think the proper valvejob has been done to allow the customer to run the MS3 cam without flycutting or sending the heads back to have the valvejob cut.

On a side note, every salesman here is very knowledgeable in these cars/engines and if there is one of us doesn't know the answer there is someone here who does 99% of the time. Matt, I think there was a misunderstanding between your and our salesman Matt yesterday. He was told there wasn't a torque arm for the M9 so that's what he told you. I just remembered you could run the TA and TA relocation with the True Dual Exhaust. Feel free to give us a call and talk to any of the sales guys. I'm 100% sure any of us can get you the help you need. :)

Jon

SOMbitch
02-07-2008, 12:31 PM
Do you lose flow when you recess the valves to clear a cam??? Can anybody from TSP answer??? Very curious....

Joey7489
02-07-2008, 01:46 PM
Soo is any one running the MS3 with the 5.3 heads without the valve job?

COOKIE MONSTER
02-07-2008, 05:09 PM
I talked to TSP today about this. Aparently I was right... The MS3 will work with 5.3 Stg2.5s with out a valve cut deeper. And no Fly cutting is involved. However, like in this situation, when you order the Torquer V2 with the PRCs, they did not cut the Head to the valve clearance they see fit. TSP DOES NOT RECOMMEND you run the MS3 with the PRC stg 2.5 5.3 heads UNLESS you have the "Valve Job". But they will still clear.

Did you talk to Trevor @TSP today? What he say?

Joey7489
02-07-2008, 06:25 PM
I talked to TSP today about this. Aparently I was right... The MS3 will work with 5.3 Stg2.5s with out a valve cut deeper. And no Fly cutting is involved. However, like in this situation, when you order the Torquer V2 with the PRCs, they did not cut the Head to the valve clearance they see fit. TSP DOES NOT RECOMMEND you run the MS3 with the PRC stg 2.5 5.3 heads UNLESS you have the "Valve Job". But they will still clear.

Did you talk to Trevor @TSP today? What he say?



When you ordered your 5.3 heads did you specify you were going to be running the MS3??


I didnt talk to Trevor today. I talked to John who said Trevor was at a meeting and would have him call me back, but he didnt call back.

COOKIE MONSTER
02-07-2008, 06:37 PM
Yeah, normally, you want to get your head assembled to the specs of your cam...

They say it will clear, but not by very much,and TSP doesn't recommend you try it, you will have to send them back, and have them cut the valves a bit deeper...

No fly cutting...

Joey7489
02-07-2008, 06:44 PM
Yeah but I dont want to take my heads off again. I did them myself and I promised myself after I put them on that Id never do heads on an LS1 again, so theres no damn way they are coming off.

COOKIE MONSTER
02-07-2008, 07:06 PM
What cam is in there now? TV2? If so, that is not a bad cam at all. Why swap?

Joey7489
02-07-2008, 07:18 PM
Overlap is 5 degrees. Intake closnig point is like 49 degrees. I need something with higher overlap and an earlier intake closing point and a later exhaust closing point to build compression quicker to fully take advantage of the heads.

COOKIE MONSTER
02-07-2008, 09:14 PM
Are you gonna use juice?

Joey7489
02-07-2008, 10:51 PM
Are you gonna use juice?

:nod::nod:

NBM99SS
02-08-2008, 01:06 AM
Joey like I told ya im willing to bet after all this you pick up a max of 10hp. Like jwall and I told you get your shit tuned for the nitrous first and see how it does. If you put the MS3 in without doing the head work, and miss a gear you pistons are gonna kiss those valves then your really gonna be in trouble

chrs1313
02-08-2008, 10:22 AM
Joey like I told ya im willing to bet after all this you pick up a max of 10hp. Like jwall and I told you get your shit tuned for the nitrous first and see how it does. If you put the MS3 in without doing the head work, and miss a gear you pistons are gonna kiss those valves then your really gonna be in trouble

agreed not worth the change and retune...maybe 10hp...is that worth taking the cam out and possibly having PTV issues and having to retune too...and why are you so set on the MS3...why not talk to patrick g or predator z and get a custom cam that will work great with the bottle and those heads...

COOKIE MONSTER
02-08-2008, 06:27 PM
^ ahh, I'm not sure about that, My prc heads and MS3 cam put down 462RWHP SAE.... I have a all the same shit he has and my motor had 104,000 miles on it... So, what did he dyno again???? hmmmmm

COOKIE MONSTER
02-08-2008, 06:29 PM
Another guy with same setup put down 471rwhp on the same Dyno..
PS, I dynoed 458 on a Mustang dyno with the same setup, so I ask again, what did he put down with the current setup and tune...
Maybe TSP can cut you a Half off on shipping, they do that kinda shit all the time...

projectdfc
03-09-2008, 07:54 PM
What rocker arm ratios can you go with when running the PRC 5.3 2.5 heads and ms3 cam?
Im looking at comps 1.75 rockers.

Eurospec2
03-09-2008, 08:18 PM
What rocker arm ratios can you go with when running the PRC 5.3 2.5 heads and ms3 cam?
Im looking at comps 1.75 rockers.

You will not want to change the rocker ratio from stock with that setup

projectdfc
03-09-2008, 08:19 PM
You will not want to change the rocker ratio from stock with that setup

Is there any aftermarket stock ratio roller tip rockers i can buy?

SOMbitch
03-09-2008, 08:52 PM
just use your stockers or go to a true roller like YT or HS. Or get HS to rebuild the stockers ($225)for added security. No more needle bearings to worry about.

Blu99T/A
03-12-2008, 12:40 AM
I bought a set of PRC 5.3 stage 2.5's wanting to run a MS3 cam and now realize I can't. So the ONLY option is sending the heads back or getting a different cam. What is a good cam recommendation, I was set on the MS3.
I might just sell the heads and buy the package deal this time.

RealArmyMan
03-12-2008, 05:12 AM
Probably a stupid question, but must you specify that you will be running the MS3 with the stage 2.5 5.3l heads if you order them as a package?

Camaro01SS4life
03-12-2008, 09:42 AM
You have to specify if you are running the MS3 with the 2.5 heads...If not, there will not be tollerable clearances...Will it work yes, but for how long is the question...
As for the MS4, it will not work with the 5.3 heads, or the LS6 stage 2.5's, due to the bigger valves, however they will clear with the LS6 stage one heads...
I think it would be wise to either pull the head and get the valve job done, or go with a different cam that wil fit...
TSP has some very promising packages that perform...I wonder what package I am going to go with :secret2:...

Kev