Florida Members - I Hate To Say I Told You So

Law enforcement budgets have started to be cut already. Just what we need right now. Thanks to all who voted for 1 and enjoy the extra $240.

http://www.sptimes.com/2008/02/16/Northpinellas/Pinellas_County_plans.shtml

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/opinion/sfl-editajjbsosbfeb16,0,537297.story

all local gov will have to be a little smarter the way they spend OUR $$$. i know i have to watch my finances even more than ever right now and its about time local officals had to as well. case in point.....here in jax the city council just installed a new mahagony and etched glass entry/security door for their offices. price tag......$18000.00. thats pretty pricey for a freakin door.

So does this mean cops will be issuing more tickets for the fun of it?

Up here in northeast fl we voted no. The other option is now to impliment a new tax, sorry surcharge to make up the difference. So by saving money on reale state we will end up paying more in the end. The people in south fl with the expense property are the only ones who will save money.

Ya the city's are going to cut the budgets, there going to cut staffing levels, that puts your familys at risk. There also going to up all the fees and permit cost, you end up spending more money then you save. Who ever voted yes, HOPE YOUR HAPPY!

i voted yes and i am very happy. now maybe the state will get smart and figure out some sort of a sur-charge or impact-fee for all the people who keep moving here. i am 46, been a home owner for the last 23 years, have been here all my adult life and i see no reason why folks like me should continue to foot the bill while people not from here continue to put strains on the infrastructure. i have watched all of florida change over the past several decades. i really find it hard to believe that with all this growth there should be or will be any shortage of funds.

i voted yes and i am very happy. now maybe the state will get smart and figure out some sort of a sur-charge or impact-fee for all the people who keep moving here. i am 46, been a home owner for the last 23 years, have been here all my adult life and i see no reason why folks like me should continue to foot the bill while people not from here continue to put strains on the infrastructure. i have watched all of florida change over the past several decades. i really find it hard to believe that with all this growth there should be or will be any shortage of funds.

Did you even read the articles I posted? They have already cut the budgets in most of the counties. And if you haven't noticed, the growth has hit a brick wall lately along with the housing market.

From 2003 until 2006 my property tax doubled. Now that it's dropping by 5%, budget cuts have to be made? Who the fuck got the 100% pay raise from the real estate boom?

From 2003 until 2006 my property tax doubled. Now that it's dropping by 5%, budget cuts have to be made? Who the fuck got the 100% pay raise from the real estate boom?

Did you change something about your property or build on to your house? Because unless I am mistaking, if nothing had changed and you are talking about your homestead property, the tax rate increase is capped at 3% a year. So how did it double?

My grandparents own property in Orange Park they have lived on for over 30 years. It is three acres lake front and they pay less than $1000 a year. I guess they are just lucky.

the government has PLENTY of money. if you think that voting Yes will actually affect public services you need to complain to your politicians. Why dont you say something about how much they're paid or like WS6nJax said regulate what they spend money on. 18,000 for a door is RIDICULOUS. so shove it, b/c its about time that the average guy stand up for himself. now stand up to your "leaders".

My house payment has gone up 11% in less than 2 years. No refi, no increase in interest rate.

the government has PLENTY of money. if you think that voting Yes will actually affect public services you need to complain to your politicians. Why dont you say something about how much they're paid or like WS6nJax said regulate what they spend money on. 18,000 for a door is RIDICULOUS. so shove it, b/c its about time that the average guy stand up for himself. now stand up to your "leaders".

Oh thanks for clearing that up. And here I thought we had a deficit. And once again, I never said anything about being against better regulation of funds because obviously that would be good. But this amendment will do nothing to help that. 18000 does seem high for a door, but I don't know the specifics of that situation and I see no documentation to back up that claim. The average guy as you say will stand to benefit almost nothing from this asinine amendment. I did stand up to my "leader", you know the one who proposed and pushed this amendment, by voting NO.

lol bro you're 3 years older than me. you and i have no idea what its like for the government to continually take money from the average guy year after year. now that the majority of the state has voted in favor of this b/c they're tired of being taken for, you're complaining. i can guarantee you that public outcry will not allow for law enforcement or any first responders to be cut because of THIS amendment. also if 240 dollars isnt a big deal to you...how about you start giving it to me once a year. i'm sure not gonna complain.

all local gov will have to be a little smarter the way they spend OUR $$$. i know i have to watch my finances even more than ever right now and its about time local officals had to as well. case in point.....here in jax the city council just installed a new mahagony and etched glass entry/security door for their offices. price tag......$18000.00. thats pretty pricey for a freakin door.

Um actually no they didn't it got cancelled and never put in. And the LAST place that needed cuts is Jax with the highest murder rate in the state and most of the country the last 3 years. So I hope everyone that voted for it enjoys that 20 or so bucks a month, just don't start bitchin when crime goes up DRASTICALLY. I am one to say police can be aggravating at times but we need them to get the murderers off the streets. And there is no money, if there was money to cover these cuts then why would Bush just sign a bill to give checks to homeowners and families to "boost the economy"? You wanna know who's fault it IS, the OIL TYCOONS, THREE HUNDERED PERCENT PROFIT??? ARE YOU KIDDING ME. They make sooooo much money off of us because they know we need oil, Now it IS the Governments fault for not regulating this crap and FORCING the oil companies to drop there prices I mean it won't kill them to get 850 million this year instead of 1 billion, they should still be able to feed there kids off of 850 million right????? There is a lot of aspects to look at when it comes to this economy but in MY OPINION this amendment should NOT have passed because NOW the governor and the government knows they can hold "whatever" in front of you to save you money, all the while in the fine print they also know that when you vote yes for "whatever" they add this and that to your current fee's and or taxes to recoop the "loss" case closed its the government no getting aroudn it.

I voted yes. There is too much fat. The highest building in my city is 3 stories. Why do we need a NYC style fire ladder truck? Accountability is a nice thing. If the tax increase went to the schools and meant better stuff and no more trailers, as well as more teachers, COOL!!!!

you all are to blame...you voted in these council and state members who cant balance a damn tire for all i give a damn...

now, that their there...they arent going to cut their salary...their not going to cut any special interest...their going to cut whats important...

for you jacksonville people...your down 250 officers REGARDLESS...this was before any problems...you were already down...the surrounding counties around that city are STILL growing...if you think 19 officers on duty for 300,000+ people in clay county is enough, your in a dream world...and the other surrounding counties are looking the same

this jackass governor i shouldnt have voted for, has a cabinet now talking of disbanding FHP?...!!11!!....do any of you realize what that will do towards services in the state?....aside from MILLIONS in seizures each year, they work wrecks that county cops cant, they enforce speed where county cops cant...and bring in revenue...

FWIW...departments dont make money off of tickets....for you slow people...go back and read what i just said....the avg. ticket (118.50) nets the DEPARTMENT...$3...the rest goes to your roads, courts, state, etc etc....

as for all services effected...the teachers will be affected just as firefighters and officers...duval county schools...will lose 76 million in the next 6 years...how can anyone justify that?

i own property in alachua county...one of the highest taxed areas in the state...but i could afford 8 acres on a deputies salary...my house in jacksonville is a joke on tax....for you ladies who live outside YOUR MEANS...ie huge house's on the beach, etc etc...if you want that house you have to be ready for what comes with it...like JACKASSES WHO BY BMW'S AND DONT WANT TO PAY 1400$ for tires...:nono: argueing that the city needs to be accountable when we have people living beyond what they can afford and then get mad for paying for public services is the pot calling the kettle black

what the hell is 240$ at the end of the year to know itll take JFRD 15 extra minutes to get to my house if its on fire?...do i believe they should slow down out of state growth...damn skippy, the state needs to consolidate...i was born here...and i hate seeing whats happening to my state...

rant over...that is all

PLEASE explain to me where all the money went when we shot up from $1200 to $5200 in 3 years????????????????? Dont tell me there isnt money to fund the police or fire. That is a cop out. It is total crap. The revenue has gone up by3 and 4 times but our services did not. Now they threaten to take away the services that were funded just fine before the big increase. GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK.

So you guys think its ok to keep giving to the government but get nothing back. Then after years of increases in revenue but no increase in services they want to take some away. Get real. We need to vote these JOKERS out. Where has our money gone over the last years when property taxes have skyrocketed??????????

Where have you been the last 3 years when they have been "trimming the fat" from ALL, ALL, ALL city owned and governed establishments ESPECIALLY the Police and Fire departments. They have cut back and cut back and cut back and STILL can't have enough people to man the streets to keep them safe and protected, instead we have little KIDS 18 years old shooting and trying to kill a cop over a FUCKING SHIRT. GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK those people earn every bit of what they get payed plus some, and now they wanna take away more, after they short staff them and take away raises for the last 3 years. YOU , Give ME a fucking break, I just HOPE your house doesn't get broken into, or catches on fire, and I just HOPE you don't get car jacked, because it can happen to anyone, and these assholes see the decline in officers on the streets because the pay decreasing and they figure hell its open season to do what we want. Unless you have had it happen to you then you can't say anything, My wife got the door kicked in on our old house almost two years ago now, and I was still at work, did the police get there fast? Kinda, did they get there fast enough to catch the bastards NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. I WANT POLICE AND FIRE TO BE ON THE STREETS THAT IS MY/OUR RIGHTS AS CITIZENS PERIOD END And with the chop chop chop the Governor's sorry ass is doing, hell the only police we will see are the ones at the mayor's office protection his scrawny ass, and the ones that escort the governor around for protection.

Jacob you caught that about the FHP- isn't that the most asinine thing you have EVER heard. That is about the stupidest fucking thing this state could ever do.

My opinion is the government needs to trim their budgets. As a normal Joe, I don't have the power to just go to my boss and demand more money because I keep spending more, but it seems our government does this all the time. I learned to live within my means, and so does the government. How simple is that?

Here in Brandon, they done stupid things like spending thousands to plant palm trees in the middle of some stupid fountain, for what? This kind of spending needs to be cut first. As for crime, I have been to other parts of the country, and crime is the same (and in some areas, worse) as here. I see enforcement here to be better than other places.

The one thing I hate is letting these street beggers with their "God Bless, give me money" signs everywhere. I say round them up and make them get jobs like the rest of us. The attitude of people living off our backs needs to go.

I voted no. My education will be directly affected by this bullshit. There are talks of no summer classes being offered anymore, class sizes will increase, less courses will be offered and of course tuition will spike up again. Not that universities don't make enough as it is, they will use this excuse to hike up tuition and offer less courses.

What I can't believe is that my girlfriends brother is a orange county deputy and her dad voted yes so he can save a couple bucks a year.

Bash me all you want but Govn. Christ is a fucking moron. Like I've said before there is nothing we can do except bitch and complain until there is something besides a two-party system in this country. Don't give me this BS and say there are third parties, the media never recognizes them and they never get the attention they should because these big money politicians who are rich off our taxes in the first place have some control in the media outlets to make sure that doesn't happen.

I see how this is going in Ormond Beach. The city leaders continue to build a "splash park" for residents that live one mile from the beach. This is at a cost of 210K. The city leaders accuse the police department of "taking money from the old folks and children" This city spent 650K to widen a road that the county would have extended in 2011! The city commisioners won't stop the sensless spending...they are going to stop paying their valued employees what they're worth.
Ormond Beach gave 30K to the London Symphony Orchastra as a donation! You gotta be fu***in kidding me.
I have another clue that I'll let you in on...all cities in Florida are going to start a "Fire Department Surcharge" Here's how it works:
You are driving through our fair city, on the way to Daytona Beach and you are involved in a car accident. If you A) are at fault, and B) not a city resident, then you or your insurance company will be billed for the services of the fire department.
This is not set in stone as of yet, but the cities are trying their best to start this program.

So it appears that everyones solution is to throw more money at the government and hope they spend it appropriately???

Well I hate to say it AGAIN, but the government gets plenty of money allready. They need to spend it more wisely. It is not my fault that the government spends and spends on crap. Look at Orlando, spending billions of dollars of middle class folk's tax money on an arena so millionaires can play basketball. It is costing them almost as much to design and draw up a performance arts center as it took UCF to completely build their stadium.

The number of tax payers, as well as the amount each pays has gone up ridiculously, but our services keep getting worse and worse. GET RID OF THE FRIVILOUS CRAP, dont expect the tax payers to keep giving more and more so they can keep their cousin Joe's company going(or in Orlando's case Cameron Kuhn's business), or so the people that dont even pay taxes can have more entitlement programs.

If they cut police and fire, and you drive throught the ghetto and the landscaping is nicer than ours, there is something wrong. VOTE these guys out!!!!!!!

You are right we need more emergancy services, but if you think the government doesnt have the money to do it you are sadly mistaken. It is poor use of money, not the lack of it.

So it appears that everyones solution is to throw more money at the government and hope they spend it appropriately???

Well I hate to say it AGAIN, but the government gets plenty of money allready. They need to spend it more wisely. It is not my fault that the government spends and spends on crap. The number of tax payers, as well as the amount each pays has gone up ridiculously, but our services keep getting worse and worse. GET RID OF THE FRIVILOUS CRAP, dont expect the tax payers to keep giving more and more so they can keep their cousin Joe's company going, or so the people that dont even pay taxes can have more entitlement programs.

If they cut police and fire, and you drive throught the ghetto and the landscaping is nicer than ours, there is something wrong. VOTE these guys out!!!!!!!

You are right we need more emergancy services, but if you think the government doesnt have the money to do it you are sadly mistaken. It is poor use of money, not the lack of it.

That's my point. The government will NOT stop spending as they see fit. They will continue to keep their cousin Joe in business and building splash parks and giving money to crazy stuff. They will NOT provide their employees with any kind of raise or incentive to stay in the jobs they're at. We just had an election here in October and our great citizens kept the same morons in office. I do hope the public catches on to the fire surcharge.
Oh and how 'bout our milage rate. They are going to raise the crap out of that and there going to keep doing it for the next 2 years.
A tax shift, not savings.

I voted no. My education will be directly affected by this bullshit. There are talks of no summer classes being offered anymore, class sizes will increase, less courses will be offered and of course tuition will spike up again. Not that universities don't make enough as it is, they will use this excuse to hike up tuition and offer less courses.

What I can't believe is that my girlfriends brother is a orange county deputy and her dad voted yes so he can save a couple bucks a year.

Bash me all you want but Govn. Christ is a fucking moron. Like I've said before there is nothing we can do except bitch and complain until there is something besides a two-party system in this country. Don't give me this BS and say there are third parties, the media never recognizes them and they never get the attention they should because these big money politicians who are rich off our taxes in the first place have some control in the media outlets to make sure that doesn't happen.


You talk about something other than a 2 party system. How about we just get our politicians to stop lying and if you are a Democrat, say so. Chris ran as a Republican, kinda like McCaine is doing, but for all intents and purposes is a Democrat. Make government bigger, waste money on lowlifes and criminals, raise taxes on the people actually working so the lazy bastards sitting on their porches drinking and smoking pot, dont have to work. The very same porches that the taxpayers money subsidises. Then they can just throw thier garbage all over the ground because, YOU GUESSED IT, the taxpayers will pay someone to come pick it up for them. They dont want to work because then they wont have time to shine up their 22" rims on their new Escelades. How does someone that doesnt work at all, or works at McDonalds afford something like that?? I cant and I make a pretty good living.

Lets all get together and tell Crist to stop pretending to be a Republican and come out of the closet.

you are all still missing the point...you put those people there...now you will have to deal with them...i wasnt emplaced by anyone when i was a cop, but i have EVERYONE trying to play with my salary?...

if you have a problem with council members...get them out...go to the meetings, put down the beer and stop being an armchair quaterback...

also...that growth in the tax bracket hasnt completely covered the influx of people, ive seen areas EXPLODE...in 4 years...look at all the apartments that have gone up and all the out of state people we have...they dont get taxed like homeowners...thats an issue the citizens have to take up and instead we've sat back...

im not arguing the point that money is being spent wrongly...because i believe it is to...but i believe no one's taking responiblity on both sides...

I vote against taxes, PERIOD! I vote against anyone wanting to expand entitlement programs and waste more money. The problem is, the people using the entitlement programs, and probably comitting the most crime, are also allowed to vote, or their families are.

People voted for this crap in Orlando. People voted in a train from Deland to Kissammee. Who does that benefit?? I dont know anyonoe that will ever use it, yet everyone that pays taxes will be footing the bill. I called my representatives, sent emails, etc etc etc and they still voted it in. So next time I vote for new people I will vote against them and try to vote them out.

the problem is ill informed voters. Oh he is a nice guy, articulate, and can give a good speach about change, lets vote for him or her. Nobody knows what they really stand for because they talk around the subject. Then nobody does the research and votes blindly.

But I keep plugging along, trying to research as much as I can to make an educated decision and maybe someday people will wake up and do the same.

We had 69 sworn positions when I got hired in 1996. We have had a huge growth in homes and people. We are down to 63 sworn positions. The city commision says your services won't be cut...sure. We are going to have a nice splash park. Mabe they'll give free tickets to the LSO. I can't wait.

The problem is that "we the people" have let the gov't gain so much power that any time a group of people tries to put things back in check it gets shot down immediately whether by legal or militant power. We lose more and more freedoms every second. We have the power to abolish an unjust gov't as people.

look i'm all for funding gov't services with tax dollars, but last year before the $240 was even voted on, my daughter had a seizure. i had to call 911. now thank God she was ok, but the 6 miles ride, to hospital in a county emt vehicle was almost $1000. so i ask if they are going to loose $$$ and cut the budget and cut back on county services, then what was my $1000 for??? and as far as a new arena, how about we get a team that wins first...

The grand is for the non-working fools who use the EMT/Fire/Police and don't pay taxes. Watch that grand go up to 2k real quick.

The local governments have the option to preserve
essential services and unload the feel-good frills. But
doing that, won't whip you back into line to give up
the wool like a good little sheep.

Government assessment increases on property were
"supposed" to be capped at 3%, but do anything
that involves a permit, and loophole #1 up your ass.
What do you think the state has been doing ever
since the SOH passed? Making sure they can set
another hook into you somehow.

I live 1 mile from a fire station that does not serve
my address and 3 miles from one that takes 15
minutes to get here. I know for a fact that my
house would be a total loss before I got any help.
That's before "tax cut", how worse can it go? I
pay a separate service fee for the sherriffs straight
up, to the county.

Besides, this "tax cut" just got voted on, it has not
hit the budget for this year, that's a done deal. So
anyone who's blaming present headcount "activity"
on it is a lying weasel with their own agenda. Or
just a drooler of secondhand disinformation.

The streets cannot be made "safe" with any amount
of "other peoples' money". And all you'll get for a
doubling of the budget is 10% more street cops (for
show, to be laid off next year when the budget
stays flat) and a brand new glass palace for the
law enforcement bureaucracy to work up next year's
demands, in. The bureaucracy protects itself with
no particular regard for the "real cops" and if you
want to blame the citizen who resists government
extortion one time, instead, I guess I know where
you stand - behind me with your hand in my pocket
and a pre-existing boner.

How 'bout a reacharound, buddy, just to show you
care?

The real problem with this country is that everyone
is "entitled". Except you, to the sweat of your own brow.
That's government property. Government says so. You
got to vote on which blue, red or green bastard got to
sell you out and sign you up for it. So you must have
bought in to whatever they decide to do to you later.
In perpetuity. Right? Right.

Land of the fee, home of the slave. Safety, safety,
boo hoo, here comes the bogey-man (again), give
"us" more money. All of it, would be best; that way
we won't have to keep up this ugly charade of
"democracy" every year.

The talk around the cities LAST year was to be prepared for Amendment 1 to pass. Budgets have been cut at least in Ormond for the FY07-08. The great leaders of our city told the employees to be prepared to loose another 12-15% with the budget FY08-09. Where the hell are they going to cut from? Our city manager makes 130K. His freaking assistant manager makes 110K. Yet these same morons will lay off records clerks who make maybe $12 an hour. There is a problem with our elected officials, but as I said, our citizens voted them in for another 2 years.
I sure wish the fire surcharge becomes the police surcharge. I can't wait to set some prices for calls for service

Check out this article I found - http://www.wftv.com/news/15352179/detail.html

BREVARD COUNTY, Fla. -- Channel 9 found out the Brevard County Fire Department has a $16 million surplus, even though the county has been claiming a severe budget crunch forced them to charging an extra fire fee to residents.

Expert say $16 million is enough to hire 512 new firefighters, buy 93 new ambulances, 54 new fire trucks or give every Brevard County property owner a $66 refund.

The news upset some taxpayers like Roger Shealy.

"I'm very upset. We're being told that it's tight budget year," said Shealey, a Brevard County resident.

Channel 9 also uncovered a letter sent to Brevard County commissioners last year warning them that the department would end up with $21 million extra. It was recommended that the $220 fee be lowered, but the commission kept it the same.

The county chairman claims the extra money is already budgeted.


What a joke...

The county/city commisioners are thieves. The things they do with the "general fund" is crazy. That article is a perfect example.

Its funny to see people vote based on what polititians say they will do or what they think polititians should do. Every intelligent person I know or spoke to voted no. Ultimately, taxes are going to go up. But hey, you all get your $240, right? And polititians are going to start budgeting and spending correctly, right?

you all are to blame...you voted in these council and state members who cant balance a damn tire for all i give a damn...

now, that their there...they arent going to cut their salary...their not going to cut any special interest...their going to cut whats important...

for you jacksonville people...your down 250 officers REGARDLESS...this was before any problems...you were already down...the surrounding counties around that city are STILL growing...if you think 19 officers on duty for 300,000+ people in clay county is enough, your in a dream world...and the other surrounding counties are looking the same

this jackass governor i shouldnt have voted for, has a cabinet now talking of disbanding FHP?...!!11!!....do any of you realize what that will do towards services in the state?....aside from MILLIONS in seizures each year, they work wrecks that county cops cant, they enforce speed where county cops cant...and bring in revenue...

FWIW...departments dont make money off of tickets....for you slow people...go back and read what i just said....the avg. ticket (118.50) nets the DEPARTMENT...$3...the rest goes to your roads, courts, state, etc etc....

as for all services effected...the teachers will be affected just as firefighters and officers...duval county schools...will lose 76 million in the next 6 years...how can anyone justify that?

i own property in alachua county...one of the highest taxed areas in the state...but i could afford 8 acres on a deputies salary...my house in jacksonville is a joke on tax....for you ladies who live outside YOUR MEANS...ie huge house's on the beach, etc etc...if you want that house you have to be ready for what comes with it...like JACKASSES WHO BY BMW'S AND DONT WANT TO PAY 1400$ for tires...:nono: argueing that the city needs to be accountable when we have people living beyond what they can afford and then get mad for paying for public services is the pot calling the kettle black

what the hell is 240$ at the end of the year to know itll take JFRD 15 extra minutes to get to my house if its on fire?...do i believe they should slow down out of state growth...damn skippy, the state needs to consolidate...i was born here...and i hate seeing whats happening to my state...

rant over...that is all

good point jacob

Its funny to see people vote based on what polititians say they will do or what they think polititians should do. Every intelligent person I know or spoke to voted no. Ultimately, taxes are going to go up. But hey, you all get your $240, right? And polititians are going to start budgeting and spending correctly, right?

well i guess i am one of the dumb-asses then, but let me make sure i have this correct.....

if you loose you job and your income changes, you just continue to spend beyond your means anyway. right? you cant spend what you dont have and you must be smarter about the way you budget. if the good folks in power cant figure all this out then i am sure peoples opinions will speak when they enter the booth on the next election.

Its funny to see people vote based on what polititians say they will do or what they think polititians should do. Every intelligent person I know or spoke to voted no. Ultimately, taxes are going to go up. But hey, you all get your $240, right? And polititians are going to start budgeting and spending correctly, right?

what do you base your vote on? how they look??!?! my pops is probably the best and smartest engineer in florida and he voted YES b/c he is tired of government not being held accountable on the way they spend money. so why not take from the government while you can...thats what they do to us. the "intelligent" people you must have been speaking with must have been politicians.

oh and since i dont own property i voted YES for him and every other guy that busts there ass day in and day out and keep getting walked all over by the "man".

You talk about something other than a 2 party system. How about we just get our politicians to stop lying and if you are a Democrat, say so. Chris ran as a Republican, kinda like McCaine is doing, but for all intents and purposes is a Democrat. Make government bigger, waste money on lowlifes and criminals, raise taxes on the people actually working so the lazy bastards sitting on their porches drinking and smoking pot, dont have to work. The very same porches that the taxpayers money subsidises. Then they can just throw thier garbage all over the ground because, YOU GUESSED IT, the taxpayers will pay someone to come pick it up for them. They dont want to work because then they wont have time to shine up their 22" rims on their new Escelades. How does someone that doesnt work at all, or works at McDonalds afford something like that?? I cant and I make a pretty good living.

Lets all get together and tell Crist to stop pretending to be a Republican and come out of the closet.

Funny you mention that about Crist coming out of the closet because I seriously think he is GAY......LITERALLY

i still ask...what have any of you done to fix the current problems in government?

id pay 20$ to see a video from someone in the past going to there city council meetins and telling them off....anyone?...

as for never approving new taxes...thats a dream to...do people not realize that the products of the service go up in price for the city?...perfect example is concrete...we had a shortage on that for quite a while...i had my personal reasons for being a cop for 33k a year...

idea...stop calling the police for bs...stop calling the fire department cause your damn cats in a tree...stop filling up the ER for your bruised elbow or cold...after you do that...stop by the voting booth or city council and let them know how you feel...dont go down the street and tell them cop " fuck you, you dont need a raise or better equipment or back up"...

these cookie cutter neighborhoods and apartments cost the city more to service and develop then they get out of it...

i still ask...what have any of you done to fix the current problems in government?

id pay 20$ to see a video from someone in the past going to there city council meetins and telling them off....anyone?...

as for never approving new taxes...thats a dream to...do people not realize that the products of the service go up in price for the city?...perfect example is concrete...we had a shortage on that for quite a while...i had my personal reasons for being a cop for 33k a year...

idea...stop calling the police for bs...stop calling the fire department cause your damn cats in a tree...stop filling up the ER for your bruised elbow or cold...after you do that...stop by the voting booth or city council and let them know how you feel...dont go down the street and tell them cop " fuck you, you dont need a raise or better equipment or back up"...

these cookie cutter neighborhoods and apartments cost the city more to service and develop then they get out of it...

You make it sound like it is us doing all this. Trust me, I dont call anyone unless it is a dire emergancy. I dont use the emergency room for anything unless somebody is dying. I call and email my representatives on a regular basis when I see something I dont like or think they should vote something down. Dont put all of us in this catagory that you speak of. THe people you are talking about are the same ones I am talking about, leaching the system for our tax dollars. The people in power need to stop giving them these freebies and maybe they will get jobs and wont have time to waste the police's time.

well i guess i am one of the dumb-asses then, but let me make sure i have this correct.....

if you loose you job and your income changes, you just continue to spend beyond your means anyway. right? you cant spend what you dont have and you must be smarter about the way you budget. if the good folks in power cant figure all this out then i am sure peoples opinions will speak when they enter the booth on the next election.
No. You're not a dumb ass. You have it correct. It's the city leaders that don't. They will spend on what tax money they do get. I can't speak for every city. Only where I work.
There was an interesting article in the New-Journal regarding what local cities pay for landscape. Port Orange was up around 50K per year.
The great City of Ormond Beach showed an expense of 900k per year for landscaping. This was in the paper prior to the election. Ormond actually admitted to buying flowers and replanting different flowers with every season.
If that wasn't enough to get the current commision out of office, I don't know what is.

Law enforcement budgets have started to be cut already. Just what we need right now. Thanks to all who voted for 1 and enjoy the extra $240.

http://www.sptimes.com/2008/02/16/Northpinellas/Pinellas_County_plans.shtml

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/opinion/sfl-editajjbsosbfeb16,0,537297.story


To put it frankly cops can kiss my ass. I am and always have been a law abiding citizen. I've called the cops 3 times in my life trying to do the right thing and they acted like worthless fucks. I know they're not all lazy dumbasses, but I think MOST are. Let them get real fucking jobs.

Screw the government at every level.

^^ u are an idiot.

move to africa or something. a real job??? lmao, let me see you put ur life on the line to protect society. u are a piece of low-life shit.

^^ u are an idiot.

move to africa or something. a real job??? lmao, let me see you put ur life on the line to protect society. u are a piece of low-life shit.

And when the socialists/democrats pass the laws to take our guns away you would quit your job before enforcing it, right?
I doubt it, you would be a good little nazi because "your just doing your job"
Again, kiss my ass.

There are good cops, my cousin is one. Even he tells me MOST are sorry pieces of shit. I've seen it first hand, I have needed the help of the police and they shit on me. I will now handle everything myself and fuck you and your vigilanteism is not right speech. When the government won't do it's job the people have the responsibility to do it.

Actually, let me be clear. I hate the fucked up broken system/government not all the individual cops. This thread pushed a button with me because of personal experience involving a life threatening issue with someone close to me2 separate times. The system AND the individuals were a disgrace. I ain't going to go into details here, but it happened and I am not some backwoods/teenager/moron cop hater.

I respected and supported them until I needed them and found out I was on my own.

And when the socialists/democrats pass the laws to take our guns away you would quit your job before enforcing it, right?
I doubt it, you would be a good little nazi because "your just doing your job"
Again, kiss my ass.

There are good cops, my cousin is one. Even he tells me MOST are sorry pieces of shit. I've seen it first hand, I have needed the help of the police and they shit on me. I will now handle everything myself and fuck you and your vigilanteism is not right speech. When the government won't do it's job the people have the responsibility to do it.

Actually, let me be clear. I hate the fucked up broken system/government not all the individual cops. This thread pushed a button with me because of personal experience involving a life threatening issue with someone close to me2 separate times. The system AND the individuals were a disgrace. I ain't going to go into details here, but it happened and I am not some backwoods/teenager/moron cop hater.

I respected and supported them until I needed them and found out I was on my own.


Because one TWO incidents you now HATE Cops. YOU sir are a moron you can't live with a grudge against all cops now because of one incident. EVERY SINGLE JOB IN AMERICA HAS PEOPLE IN IT THE OTHERS THINK ARE WORTHLESS. DON"T hold a grudge because of an ISOLATED INCIDENT. Do you really think that those cops personally didn't like you, I am not defending them because if they treated you wrong then that is messed up. HOWEVER, I seriously doubt they handled it with the idea "I don't like this asshole so I am going to be a dick"

COPS,FIREFIGHTERS, put there lives on the line EVERYDAY ALL DAY, for YOUR SAFTEY AND SECURITY, I don't know your circumstances but I do know I have been in one myself where no one got caught out of the deal because I felt like it was brushed aside like no big deal,but it caused irrepairable damage to me and my family, yet I don't hold a grudge even though I think the ones involved are PIECES of SHIT. I am glad we have cops to protect and serve and I think the LAST thing needing to be cut is the money they get just to save USSSSSSSSSS 240 dollars. End Rant.

I won't really get too involved..

But how about me and you wokring and paying our taxes so the family of 15 Mexicans can never learn english,get paid cash,and have there 10 kids go to public schools on OUR tax dollars?

I seen at least 9 Medicans driving around in a brand new 08 Superduty. Not one of them spoke english and all paid cash for there parts.

Why did I emntion this? I dunno its 12:04am and I've worked 60hrs this week...lol

I won't really get too involved..

But how about me and you wokring and paying our taxes so the family of 15 Mexicans can never learn english,get paid cash,and have there 10 kids go to public schools on OUR tax dollars?

I seen at least 9 Medicans driving around in a brand new 08 Superduty. Not one of them spoke english and all paid cash for there parts.

Why did I emntion this? I dunno its 12:04am and I've worked 60hrs this week...lol

TRUST ME I AGREE 100000% The government is piss poorly ran they don't take care of the bottom only those on the top and only those that aren't here legally because they don't bitch about shit, WE bitch about things because we see things like you are talking about and WE get the shaft. My whole point was that amendment didn't save us shit, because it'll wind up costing us double in the long run, and sooner than you think at that. MY whole bitch is they are chopping police and fire like they are of know use, if they weren't there at all this would be one hell of a state, it owuld be like the LA Riots everyday and NO HOPE IN SIGHT, sure we could all get out our rifles and pistols I sure as hell would, but you only have so many bullets before you get overwhelmed by the gangs, and thugs, and lowlifes that want to kill you your family and there unborn family.

TRUST ME I AGREE 100000% The government is piss poorly ran they don't take care of the bottom only those on the top and only those that aren't here legally because they don't bitch about shit, WE bitch about things because we see things like you are talking about and WE get the shaft. My whole point was that amendment didn't save us shit, because it'll wind up costing us double in the long run, and sooner than you think at that. MY whole bitch is they are chopping police and fire like they are of know use, if they weren't there at all this would be one hell of a state, it owuld be like the LA Riots everyday and NO HOPE IN SIGHT, sure we could all get out our rifles and pistols I sure as hell would, but you only have so many bullets before you get overwhelmed by the gangs, and thugs, and lowlifes that want to kill you your family and there unborn family.

sorry about you're wrong...mexicans/illegals dont bitch and we do!?!?! that is completely backwards. it is the mexicans/illegals that are doing the bitching and are getting their way b/c of liberal politicians that are afraid to be called "racist" or discriminate against a minority. while we the majority sit back and say NOTHING. you dont see any white marches trying to defend our country...but you will damn sure see a million-man mexican march and they're all illegal. if i was in charge i would have bus after bus lined up at that march deporting each and everyone and if you were a legal too bad you shouldnt have been down there.
they're not cutting first responders b/c they dont have money...that is the whole point here. THEY SPEND MONEY ABSURDLY without any monitoring. so as i said before i will and DID vote YES on the amendment b/c i am helping the average, hardworking man that continues to get shafted. :usa:

The problem is that "we the people" have let the gov't gain so much power that any time a group of people tries to put things back in check it gets shot down immediately whether by legal or militant power. We lose more and more freedoms every second. We have the power to abolish an unjust gov't as people.

Maybe another civil war is in the cards for the near future, if things do not start to change?

To put it frankly cops can kiss my ass. I am and always have been a law abiding citizen. I've called the cops 3 times in my life trying to do the right thing and they acted like worthless fucks. I know they're not all lazy dumbasses, but I think MOST are. Let them get real fucking jobs.

Screw the government at every level.

Let them get real fucking jobs, what the fuck do you do you useless douchbag. Have you ever been a police officer or in fact rode with one and dealt with the shitheads of society...probably not. Someone who makes this statement is obviously an uneducated PIECE OF LOWLIFE SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!! I have had a few times where I questioned the police, but in general to say for them to get a real job is bullshit. A friend of mine here in jax almost lost his life because of some shithead 18 yr ghetto lowlife who tried to steal a pair of jeans at regencey and unloaded a .45 hand gun into him after he fell to the ground, and he got up after several hits and shot that little bastard to hell to save his own life...and you want to say get a real job, FUCK YOU!!!!! :mad:

TRUST ME I AGREE 100000% The government is piss poorly ran they don't take care of the bottom only those on the top and only those that aren't here legally because they don't bitch about shit, WE bitch about things because we see things like you are talking about and WE get the shaft. My whole point was that amendment didn't save us shit, because it'll wind up costing us double in the long run, and sooner than you think at that. MY whole bitch is they are chopping police and fire like they are of know use, if they weren't there at all this would be one hell of a state, it owuld be like the LA Riots everyday and NO HOPE IN SIGHT, sure we could all get out our rifles and pistols I sure as hell would, but you only have so many bullets before you get overwhelmed by the gangs, and thugs, and lowlifes that want to kill you your family and there unborn family.

That is how they whip you into line. When we cut taxes they cut police and firefighters so you feel bad or get scared. How about they cut everything BUT the police. I am more than willing to call their bluff, but then I am also willing and able to take up arms against the government if need be.

I have a much cooler head today and would like to apologize to any decent law enforcement that I'm sure I offended. I know most cops are good people trying to do a good job. The government I am growing to hate.

Let them get real fucking jobs, what the fuck do you do you useless douchbag. Have you ever been a police officer or in fact rode with one and dealt with the shitheads of society...probably not. Someone who makes this statement is obviously an uneducated PIECE OF LOWLIFE SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!! I have had a few times where I questioned the police, but in general to say for them to get a real job is bullshit. A friend of mine here in jax almost lost his life because of some shithead 18 yr ghetto lowlife who tried to steal a pair of jeans at regencey and unloaded a .45 hand gun into him after he fell to the ground, and he got up after several hits and shot that little bastard to hell to save his own life...and you want to say get a real job, FUCK YOU!!!!! :mad:

Actually several family members of mine are in the military and law enforcement. I spoke to one last night who said he hates to admit it but he feels I was right. I showed him what I wrote and he was laughing. He said I got a little carried away but sadly was partly right.
I have one ex-close friend who was a well respected SWAT cop who is now serving 5 years for abuse, planting evidence, false reports, etc. He was more than happy to be a 265lb. steroid monster who put other steroid users in jail and kept some of the evidence. I had a car stolen and was harrassed by the responding officer because I was young at the time and he saw my Z28 and began going on and on about how he thinks I street race and therefore deserve what happens to me. I could go on and on. Much of it much more serious. I've seen dirty and/or stupid cops first hand.

YES, I'VE RIDDEN WITH ONE! I am, in fact speaking from experience. Sorry if you don't like it.

Like I said in my post above, I do believe many cops are good people. I'm not an anarchist, I know we need law enforcement. I also know from now on if I need a cop, I will rely on myself. Let me translate: If you ain't bullet proof, don't fuck with my family.

That is how they whip you into line. When we cut taxes they cut police and firefighters so you feel bad or get scared. How about they cut everything BUT the police. I am more than willing to call their bluff, but then I am also willing and able to take up arms against the government if need be.

I have a much cooler head today and would like to apologize to any decent law enforcement that I'm sure I offended. I know most cops are good people trying to do a good job. The government I am growing to hate.

I did actually laugh when I read the first post.
In this statement, I agree with you totally. The problem is the government will not stop building parks, planting palm trees, donating money to the London Symphony Orchestra, and planting flowers that cost 900k.
Employees cost the city money. The citizens don't see what goes on behind the scene.
Everyone needs to get together and vote these idiots out. If we had commisioners with no special interests, we would get somewhere.

I probably do need a real job, but it beats tacking up shingles on a roof in mid-July

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g37/Ragingwolf51/popcorn.jpg

:funny:

Legalize gambling in this state... at least before all the Casino's open up in Cuba.

Let's import some cuban Cohiba cigars while we're at it. I'd pay some tax for a good smoke.

Let's import some cuban Cohiba cigars while we're at it. I'd pay some tax for a good smoke.

Now that CASTRO has stepped down, the trade embargo will get shaken up a bit and sooner or later will get abolished. So COHIBAS for every one when that happens because they won't be restricted and you can buy as many as you want.

Let's import some cuban Cohiba cigars while we're at it. I'd pay some tax for a good smoke.

Welcome to the eighties. Cubans aren't the sh!t anymore. Go Dominican.

Welcome to the eighties. Cubans aren't the sh!t anymore. Go Dominican.
Oh I don't know. It's probably due to the fact I don't see a cuban too often.
Dominican's are real good

what do you base your vote on? how they look??!?! my pops is probably the best and smartest engineer in florida and he voted YES b/c he is tired of government not being held accountable on the way they spend money. so why not take from the government while you can...thats what they do to us. the "intelligent" people you must have been speaking with must have been politicians.

Yes..I base my vote on how they look.... I know I'm a couple pages late, but I guess I should add too that one of the "intelligent persons" I spoke with is an engineer(one of the other bestest and smartest in florida too) I work with who voted NO.

Just to illustrate my point, it is already starting.
http://www.wftv.com/news/15410954/detail.html
I am probably pretty safe in assuming that this wont be the first either. Just thought I would throw this out, and it's barely been a month.

The property owners will still come out on top unless they drive an incredible number of miles a year. It's about time that the tax burden is shifted off property owners and onto the general population.

i am curious about something. would all you good folks who are posting up in this thread mind giving a little info about yourself?

age...
homeowner...
how long have you lived in florida...
employee/employer/student...

I figure I wanna chime in on this because once I have a few years under my belt I really wanna be the governor of FLA.

Not a homeowner still live at home with my parents. We have lived in the same house for 14 years now, and I can tell you this. While the tax rate is capped a 3% a year, you have to understand that they can re-asses the tax value of your home. Ours went from something like 190k to 1.2 something (we live on the water). Now, I have seen the local government where I live waist tons of money. Building a giant city conference center that they won't even let the general public use the parking lot of when it isn't in use (I tried to set up meets on saturday nights and they wouldn't allow us to use the parking lot). Anyone who has been to Destin in past years knows how bad the roads are, they use to be so bad that you could barely drive a zo6 vette down 98 w/o scraping on the high center. The city wanted to build a judicial center instead of re-doing the roads. I graduate in the fall, with a degree in electrical engineering. I plan to do a career in the Navy as a Nuke Power Officer, then I am going to come back and start as Mayor of FWB, and I promise my first act will be to give myself a pay cut. I will be going nuts from their, re-arranging budgets, doing good republican things to solve problems in the city. Then I will move up through the ranks to become the Governor of FLA and repeat.

One law I will put forth: If you are in the left hand lane in a zone posted slower traffic keep right (any interstate or open HWY), a car behind you may result in a failure to yeild ticket unless yeilding would result in an unsafe lane change.

Also if you are using a cellular phone and involved in a collision when your vehicle is in motion you are at fault (sort of like a DUI).

I wanna have fun with this.

Edit: WS6inJAX
23
No
Work on a Gov Software Development Contract and in school.

i am curious about something. would all you good folks who are posting up in this thread mind giving a little info about yourself?

age...
homeowner...
how long have you lived in florida...
employee/employer/student...

34
homeowner 6 years
born and raised here 4 generations
management (brother owns the co. I work for)

Will vote to lower taxes and spend less always

The local governments have the option to preserve
essential services and unload the feel-good frills. But
doing that, won't whip you back into line to give up
the wool like a good little sheep.

Government assessment increases on property were
"supposed" to be capped at 3%, but do anything
that involves a permit, and loophole #1 up your ass.
What do you think the state has been doing ever
since the SOH passed? Making sure they can set
another hook into you somehow.

I live 1 mile from a fire station that does not serve
my address and 3 miles from one that takes 15
minutes to get here. I know for a fact that my
house would be a total loss before I got any help.
That's before "tax cut", how worse can it go? I
pay a separate service fee for the sherriffs straight
up, to the county.

Besides, this "tax cut" just got voted on, it has not
hit the budget for this year, that's a done deal. So
anyone who's blaming present headcount "activity"
on it is a lying weasel with their own agenda. Or
just a drooler of secondhand disinformation.

The streets cannot be made "safe" with any amount
of "other peoples' money". And all you'll get for a
doubling of the budget is 10% more street cops (for
show, to be laid off next year when the budget
stays flat) and a brand new glass palace for the
law enforcement bureaucracy to work up next year's
demands, in. The bureaucracy protects itself with
no particular regard for the "real cops" and if you
want to blame the citizen who resists government
extortion one time, instead, I guess I know where
you stand - behind me with your hand in my pocket
and a pre-existing boner.

How 'bout a reacharound, buddy, just to show you
care?

The real problem with this country is that everyone
is "entitled". Except you, to the sweat of your own brow.
That's government property. Government says so. You
got to vote on which blue, red or green bastard got to
sell you out and sign you up for it. So you must have
bought in to whatever they decide to do to you later.
In perpetuity. Right? Right.

Land of the fee, home of the slave. Safety, safety,
boo hoo, here comes the bogey-man (again), give
"us" more money. All of it, would be best; that way
we won't have to keep up this ugly charade of
"democracy" every year.

I like this guy. I would stand and fight with you when our voting and preaching no longer accomplishes anything.

Have you seen all the school closings in Volusia County? No matter how you voted, the service cuts have started.

school closings b/c of this??? wow! i cant believe you think that! "okay kids you parents want more money, but we're closing the schools and you will HAVE to stay home." sounds a little absurd if you believe that.

Yes..I base my vote on how they look.... I know I'm a couple pages late, but I guess I should add too that one of the "intelligent persons" I spoke with is an engineer(one of the other bestest and smartest in florida too) I work with who voted NO.

Just to illustrate my point, it is already starting.
http://www.wftv.com/news/15410954/detail.html
I am probably pretty safe in assuming that this wont be the first either. Just thought I would throw this out, and it's barely been a month.

just another example of how big business runs govt... national, state, and local levels.

Have you seen all the school closings in Volusia County? No matter how you voted, the service cuts have started.

I hate to tell you, but they were allready closing. It is a matter of good business and it is about time they woke up. There are not enough students to make leaving the schools in question open. They are wasting money hand over fist, and I for one am glad they are finally doing something about it. My taxes were $5200 last year, and I have yet to see a cop drive through my neighborhood in the 3 years I have lived here. Although I am sure they have been here, I have never seen an ambulance or fire truck here either. I pay $150 a month for water sewer and trash pickup. They have dropped down from 2 day a week pickup down to 1, but raised the price. The developer built the roads, sidewalks and drainage. WHERE THE FUCK DOES MY MONEY GO??????? My kid doesnt even use the public schools and we pay an astronomical amount so she can cheerlead for Pop Warner.

SO instead of belly acking about "only getting $240" maybe you should all be bitching about all the waste in the government and fix that instead of saying the homeowners should pay more. I am just glad I dont live in Orlando where they are spending almost as much as the entire UCF stadium cost to just draw plans for a performing arts center, and they gave Camron Khun millions to redevelope downtown only to see him go bankrupt. GREAT JOB GUYS!!! Now they are gonna raise gas taxes another 11 cents just add insult to injury.

By the way, I am 38, owned a home since 94, lived in Florida since 84 and I work in the IT industry. My taxes in 94 on a $100k home were $200, they are $5200 now on a $230k home(at least thats what I am paying on, its worth about double that). If I was paying on the full value of my home I would be paying over $10k a year. So thank GOD this got passed.

The local governments have the option to preserve
essential services and unload the feel-good frills. But
doing that, won't whip you back into line to give up
the wool like a good little sheep.

Government assessment increases on property were
"supposed" to be capped at 3%, but do anything
that involves a permit, and loophole #1 up your ass.
What do you think the state has been doing ever
since the SOH passed? Making sure they can set
another hook into you somehow.

I live 1 mile from a fire station that does not serve
my address and 3 miles from one that takes 15
minutes to get here. I know for a fact that my
house would be a total loss before I got any help.
That's before "tax cut", how worse can it go? I
pay a separate service fee for the sherriffs straight
up, to the county.

Besides, this "tax cut" just got voted on, it has not
hit the budget for this year, that's a done deal. So
anyone who's blaming present headcount "activity"
on it is a lying weasel with their own agenda. Or
just a drooler of secondhand disinformation.

The streets cannot be made "safe" with any amount
of "other peoples' money". And all you'll get for a
doubling of the budget is 10% more street cops (for
show, to be laid off next year when the budget
stays flat) and a brand new glass palace for the
law enforcement bureaucracy to work up next year's
demands, in. The bureaucracy protects itself with
no particular regard for the "real cops" and if you
want to blame the citizen who resists government
extortion one time, instead, I guess I know where
you stand - behind me with your hand in my pocket
and a pre-existing boner.

How 'bout a reacharound, buddy, just to show you
care?

The real problem with this country is that everyone
is "entitled". Except you, to the sweat of your own brow.
That's government property. Government says so. You
got to vote on which blue, red or green bastard got to
sell you out and sign you up for it. So you must have
bought in to whatever they decide to do to you later.
In perpetuity. Right? Right.

Land of the fee, home of the slave. Safety, safety,
boo hoo, here comes the bogey-man (again), give
"us" more money. All of it, would be best; that way
we won't have to keep up this ugly charade of
"democracy" every year.


I LOVE YOU. Or at least you thoughts.

Fuck it I'm moving to Alaska/Dakotas/Montana/Arizona/New Mexico/etc.
Anyone of the states people forget even exist.:jest:

Examples of well spent gov't money in Tampa.

They build these schools and before it's even opened they are over crowded and have portables outside. 2 years later they removed all portables. 1 year goes by with no portables. Next year they bring all portables back. This is all a true story, my wife is a teacher and I witnessed this first hand.

Alright school board morons, build the schools so that they can be BUILT UP. This means levels can be build on top of each other.

How about this one. Veterans expressway in Tampa. This 'expressway' is a virtual parking lot DAILY! The highway has only been open maybe 10 years. They collect tolls on this road and raise the toll rate every few years. Hey morons, instead of building an undersized 2 lane (2 lanes each side) build a 3 lane (per side) highway that can actually move some traffic. This past year these gov't morons REPAVED this highway and it in NO WAY needed repaving. Yes, they actually repaved veterans expressway this past year, didn't add in a 3rd lane or add in extra toll booths anywhere. Great way to spend money! Keep doing a fantastic job morons.

Okay next adventure. 75 and Bruce B downs in Tampa. Hello morons, do you know what a clover leaf design is?? No, lets build an on ramp OVER 75 to get onto the highway. Hell... doesn't seem like any traffic engineer in Tampa has any clue about clover leaf designs as they don't use them anywhere. How many millions are they spending to build an on ramp over the highway.

I could go on and on about this kind of stupid crap. These people make an absolute joke out of engineering.

Wah friggin Wah. When the heck did this turn into such a nation of whiners?

Florida sucks so bad? Move someplace you like better. But quit yer whinin. You sound like a bunch of babies or losers.

Wah friggin Wah. When the heck did this turn into such a nation of whiners?

Florida sucks so bad? Move someplace you like better. But quit yer whinin. You sound like a bunch of babies or losers.

So I guess you think its ok for them to waste our money?? That is why our taxes are so high, because of people like you. As long as we sit back and do nothing they will just keep taking more and more. But we are whiners and losers, we should just shut up and pay our money so they can redistribute it to those that do nothing, while they cut police and fire.

Instead of trying to find a solution or try to fix the obvious problem we should just leave. Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

So I guess you think its ok for them to waste our money?? That is why our taxes are so high, because of people like you. As long as we sit back and do nothing they will just keep taking more and more. But we are whiners and losers, we should just shut up and pay our money so they can redistribute it to those that do nothing, while they cut police and fire.

Instead of trying to find a solution or try to fix the obvious problem we should just leave. Yeah that makes a lot of sense.
So I guess you think whining on teh Intarwebs is "doing something"? You think that's "trying to find a solution"? Guess again.

And wtf does any of this have to do with LS1s? Huffington Post and Redstate.org are down the hall.

Ever wondered how we survived the stone ages of the 90's?

My home's accessed value is still 2.5x what it was in '99, which means it still pulls in 2.5x the tax revenue (give or take a bit for homestead exemption). Every home that's unhomesteaded or has sold since '04 fits into this. Even the homes with accessments capped under SOH have had their accessments increase 3% a year, even with declining market values.

If essential services are impacted by an extra 25K exemption, how does one explain the local, county, and state budgets providing for essential services when they had a fraction of the tax base?

29
Homeowner who voted "No" on Amendment 1, I want to see real property tax reform
Lived in Florida since '87 with stints out of state for school and to work for the General
Employee

I hate to tell you, but they were allready closing. It is a matter of good business and it is about time they woke up. There are not enough students to make leaving the schools in question open. They are wasting money hand over fist, and I for one am glad they are finally doing something about it. My taxes were $5200 last year, and I have yet to see a cop drive through my neighborhood in the 3 years I have lived here. Although I am sure they have been here, I have never seen an ambulance or fire truck here either. I pay $150 a month for water sewer and trash pickup. They have dropped down from 2 day a week pickup down to 1, but raised the price. The developer built the roads, sidewalks and drainage. WHERE THE FUCK DOES MY MONEY GO??????? My kid doesnt even use the public schools and we pay an astronomical amount so she can cheerlead for Pop Warner.

SO instead of belly acking about "only getting $240" maybe you should all be bitching about all the waste in the government and fix that instead of saying the homeowners should pay more. I am just glad I dont live in Orlando where they are spending almost as much as the entire UCF stadium cost to just draw plans for a performing arts center, and they gave Camron Khun millions to redevelope downtown only to see him go bankrupt. GREAT JOB GUYS!!! Now they are gonna raise gas taxes another 11 cents just add insult to injury.

By the way, I am 38, owned a home since 94, lived in Florida since 84 and I work in the IT industry. My taxes in 94 on a $100k home were $200, they are $5200 now on a $230k home(at least thats what I am paying on, its worth about double that). If I was paying on the full value of my home I would be paying over $10k a year. So thank GOD this got passed.

I sure you've noticed the shortage of teachers in this state. The school board can't pay teachers a competitive rate to stay employed. Who the hell would want to spend years in college to make 33k a year? Now we have a class size amendment. Where are we going to put these children when schools close?
Do you monitior your neighborhood looking for the police to drive down your street? You should make a public records request regarding the calls in your neighborhood. You can see if the police have ever responded to calls in your neighborhood. This is a great way to see if you're getting your money's worth.
I have to agree that Orlando sucks. The taxes spent overe there to sit in traffic on I-4 is crazy.
38
Lived in FL since 91'
Owned several homes. Current since '02

So I guess you think whining on teh Intarwebs is "doing something"? You think that's "trying to find a solution"? Guess again.

And wtf does any of this have to do with LS1s? Huffington Post and Redstate.org are down the hall.

Funny, you must think this is the only forums we post in. Do you think that because that is what you do?? The more people that know about this the better chance we have of changing it. SO yes posting here does help, even if it is only a bit.

Posting here probably brings attentioin to the problem more than posting on a political forum because everyone usually allready knows the problems and has done some research. By posting here about it brings a broader attention to the problem,

So to answer your question, yes it does help to an extent. And no it doesnt have anything to do with LS1

I sure you've noticed the shortage of teachers in this state. The school board can't pay teachers a competitive rate to stay employed. Who the hell would want to spend years in college to make 33k a year? Now we have a class size amendment. Where are we going to put these children when schools close?
Do you monitior your neighborhood looking for the police to drive down your street? You should make a public records request regarding the calls in your neighborhood. You can see if the police have ever responded to calls in your neighborhood. This is a great way to see if you're getting your money's worth.
I have to agree that Orlando sucks. The taxes spent overe there to sit in traffic on I-4 is crazy.

OK, my wife was a school teacher for 15 years and is now an Assistant Principal. I gotta tell you, the teachers make pretty good money for the time they put in. You have to remember how much time they have off, Christmas break, Spring break, Thanksgiving week, Summer etc etc etc. They dont really work a full 8 hours either and never have to work weekends. They get full medical benefits FREE, free retirement/pension. My wife always made a lot more than the base salary because she would work summerschool. She picked up student teacher assignments and made extra.

So $33k doesnt sound like a lot, but when you think about what else is out there directly out of a 4 year college, it is pretty good with all the perks they get. And as in any business, you can be promoted in a short amount of time due to lack of administration(teachers are typical union employees and are mostly content the way things are). BUT think about the perks if you have a child in school. When most people have to pay out the ass for childcare in the summer and before and afterschool programs teachers do not. Overall it is a damn good career, job stability, and just about the best perks anywhere, and all the time off that your kids have.

Now me on the other hand. My job requires a degree. I make about the same as my wife, but I work all year. I can never take off during holidays, I have no retirement, I cant get off when my daughter is off because all the guys I work with also have kids and want those times off. I am on call every other week, and although I am not scheduled, have to work most weekends.

Trust me, we have looked into the private sector for my wife. She is very qualified and now has a Masters Degree. But when we see salaries and lack of any perks it just doesnt make sense. When my wife retires she will still make a good chunk of money. I will get absolutely nothing except my own savings in 401k or stock options. She has that too though.

I work from home, and so do several of my neighbors. Then there are several retired folks in the neigborhood. We have talked about it on a regular basis, an no I dont have actual numbers, but there are many people here all day every day, and rarely see an officer. They definately do not have us on any patrol.

If you ran a business like our government is run, it would go under in short order.

OK, my wife was a school teacher for 15 years and is now an Assistant Principal. I gotta tell you, the teachers make pretty good money for the time they put in. You have to remember how much time they have off, Christmas break, Spring break, Thanksgiving week, Summer etc etc etc. They dont really work a full 8 hours either and never have to work weekends. They get full medical benefits FREE, free retirement/pension. My wife always made a lot more than the base salary because she would work summerschool. She picked up student teacher assignments and made extra.

Maybe this is true in the schools your wife has been in. I don't doubt there are schools out there with faculty and staff who get by on the bare minimum.

My wife puts in at least eight hours a day at work, and typically one to two every evening because the state mandates that her lesson plans be done well in advance yet her planning time is usually taken up by parent conferences or other administrative activities.

There are a number of other activities that get her working more than that outside of school - report cards, parent conferences, answering phone calls and e-mails from parents who feel entitled to have access to their child's teacher 24/7, professional seminars and conferences, etc. She has summers off, but that ends up being about a month of time off before her principal shuffles the deck on the entire school and she has to go in early to start moving her classroom, meeting with new team members, and getting familiar with the standards for her new grade.

My wife is a highly regarded teacher, one who has parents requesting her for their kids. She finds the work rewarding but the pay is a joke. She'll be leaving the profession in a year or two when we have kids because her net pay is about equal to the cost of good child care + tax savings from dropping her income. We'll net even, but in my not so humble opinion it's a big loss for her school and the kids that will go there in the future.

Maybe this is true in the schools your wife has been in. I don't doubt there are schools out there with faculty and staff who get by on the bare minimum.

My wife puts in at least eight hours a day at work, and typically one to two every evening because the state mandates that her lesson plans be done well in advance yet her planning time is usually taken up by parent conferences or other administrative activities.

There are a number of other activities that get her working more than that outside of school - report cards, parent conferences, answering phone calls and e-mails from parents who feel entitled to have access to their child's teacher 24/7, professional seminars and conferences, etc. She has summers off, but that ends up being about a month of time off before her principal shuffles the deck on the entire school and she has to go in early to start moving her classroom, meeting with new team members, and getting familiar with the standards for her new grade.

My wife is a highly regarded teacher, one who has parents requesting her for their kids. She finds the work rewarding but the pay is a joke. She'll be leaving the profession in a year or two when we have kids because her net pay is about equal to the cost of good child care + tax savings from dropping her income. We'll net even, but in my not so humble opinion it's a big loss for her school and the kids that will go there in the future.

A school teacher has a degree, so can get a job in the private sector too. Obviously you have determined that her working is not beneficial at all. Not that school teacher salary is too low. If that was all it was she would be looking in the private sector. BUT I know from experiance she will not find anything there making much more, and definately not with the perks. Most private companies have taken away almost all the perks. My wife would have to make over $100k to leave her current job and break even.

I would say for your wife to get her Masters and become an administrator. The oportunities are there. Not saying your wife is one of them, but most union teachers do work the minimum, and then bitch about pay, but have no aspirations to better themselves. So for someone that just wants to bitch and not do anything about it, then shame on them.

I agree there are some teachers that deserve more, but you can thank the Union for that. Seniority is the only thing that gets them a pay raise, no matter how hard they work, or if they just put in the minimum, like most. You have to love what you do to be a good teacher, if not you are just a Union member collecting a paycheck. And that is sad for our next generations.

If all of the good teachers took private sector jobs, where would we be? You could start at a Handy Way for about 30K a year.
That's the point of the whole issue. These folks need competitive pay and benefits to stay where they're at. Stop the wasetful spending on palm trees and flowers and put the money where it belongs.

My wife has her masters degree (as do I) and dropped out of the county union after one year of membership because they're worthless. She doesn't want to go into administration because the politics of the job is the biggest turnoff to her. Her passion (aside from working with the kids) is curriculum development. She's looking into private sector jobs with publishers.

Fact is that teacher salaries are a joke. I'm with you that the union here is a big part of the problem, but when you're offering 30K to a college grad you're going to continue to attract people that just want to collect a paycheck, not people that love what they do (what you need to be a good teacher).

If all of the good teachers took private sector jobs, where would we be? You could start at a Handy Way for about 30K a year.
That's the point of the whole issue. These folks need competitive pay and benefits to stay where they're at. Stop the wasetful spending on palm trees and flowers and put the money where it belongs.

Oh I agree completely. I am just saying that teachers dont really have horrible pay. And you definately cannot get a job at Handy Way for $30k unless you are a district manager, and you dont get a retirement or free healthcare or all that time off. My position starts at $22000 and requires a minimum of a 2 year degree in IT or Computer Science. I pay $200 a month for healthcare and have no pension. I was hired in a lot higher because of my background. It is not Union, so I was able to work my ass off and get huge raises quickly. But...............

The job market is not as great as most people think it is. My sister has a 4 year medical administration degree, and is a school teacher now because the pay and benefits were comperable(everything added up that is) and she gets to be off with her daughter.

Now police and fire are the real losers in the pay scale. THey make less than teachers and work year round and put their life on the line every day.

If you think teachers are still under paid, check this out, it shows that first year teachers with free health insurance and pension basically come right out of college actually making $42000. At retirement time they are at $72000. Not bad for a teacher.

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:Ehcbeqa4sy0J:www.scps.k12.fl.us/hr/_docs/Salary_schedule.pdf+seminole+county+teacher+salary&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&lr=lang_en

If you think teachers are still under paid, check this out, it shows that first year teachers with free health insurance and pension basically come right out of college actually making $42000. At retirement time they are at $72000. Not bad for a teacher.

I know about the police and fire pay scale. It sucks.
The free health insurance probably depends on if you have dependents or not. Nothing is free. 72k is quite a lot of money. I can only speak for the Flagler Schools. I don't think many, if any teachers are making that kind of money. Administrators maybe.
The Florida State Retirement isn't too hot as a teacher either. I think their multiplier is what, 1 or 2 percent for low risk jobs. Teachers were low risk at one time in my opinion. Not anymore.

Administrator pay is higher. Trust me. And is not really that hard to get into here in Florida. It is not like in the North East where someone has to die to get a position. Of course their pay is considerably higher there too.

Administrator pay is higher. Trust me. And is not really that hard to get into here in Florida. It is not like in the North East where someone has to die to get a position. Of course their pay is considerably higher there too.

They also get better quality because of higher pay.

My wife taught in Bloomfield Hills when we lived in Michigan. They had 10K+ applicants for less than five open positions. Their salaries aren't even that much higher - I think my wife made in the mid-40's there. If we were still there she'd be in the low 50's.

When we moved back to Florida we found the exact opposite. We also found great things like teachers getting fired for ethics violations and getting rehired the next week to teach at a different school in the same county.

You get what you pay for.

They also get better quality because of higher pay.

My wife taught in Bloomfield Hills when we lived in Michigan. They had 10K+ applicants for less than five open positions. Their salaries aren't even that much higher - I think my wife made in the mid-40's there. If we were still there she'd be in the low 50's.

When we moved back to Florida we found the exact opposite. We also found great things like teachers getting fired for ethics violations and getting rehired the next week to teach at a different school in the same county.

You get what you pay for.

Now you are stretching a bit. I cant even get a job at the school board because of an agrevated assault arrest, without a conviction, from 1988. Trust me I have tried. I cant even go on feild trips with my daughter.

The teachers are at $42000 with all their benefits included, and they are not on a 12 month contract. It would be higher if they worked year round like the rest of the world.

Now if you dont need the benefits or you dont care about health insurance or retirement, then great, you can probably find something else for more money, but not much more.

Now you are stretching a bit. I cant even get a job at the school board because of an agrevated assault arrest, without a conviction, from 1988. Trust me I have tried. I cant even go on feild trips with my daughter.

The only area I may be "stretching it" is that I'm not sure if she was formally fired, or if she was given the chance to quit first. She got mixed up in some plagarism stuff, I know she was asked to leave because of ethical concerns.

The point is that if she was shown the door in my wife's old school district for any reason that would have been the end of her teaching in the state. Here she was in another school the next week.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on the pay. You think it's great, that it can't be matched for the time and benefits, and I see the state struggling to fill spots and offering older teachers "drop" to keep them on a few more years as a sign that the pay isn't enough to entice new blood into the profession in Florida.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on the pay. You think it's great, that it can't be matched for the time and benefits, and I see the state struggling to fill spots and offering older teachers "drop" to keep them on a few more years as a sign that the pay isn't enough to entice new blood into the profession in Florida.[/QUOTE]

...and this is just the beginning. If you look at all of the public sector jobs (teachers, fire, police) the great city leaders are taking a hard line against raises and other benifits. They are calling them "greedy" and accuse the employees of "taking money from the old people and children"
All the while, they are still funding crazy projects for their own interests.
I agree, something has to be done with wasteful spending. As to what, I don't know.

You guys are missunderstanding, I dont think I said it was great pay, but when compared to other professions that require a 4 year degree, the pay is not terrible. Not many other positions will give you what a teacher position will. And you can thank the Unions again for making it harder to get rid of shitty teachers with poor ethics. I thought you were talking about a sexual thing when you mentioned ethical issues. She probably wasnt fired, only not reapointed.

But you are all forgetting one major issue. People that are teachers choose to be teachers. It was a choice. ANd to stay when they think it is a lousy job with crummy pay is also a choice. Teachers are pretty marketable in the private sector. My wife's best friend is a consultant for a software company selling to elementary schools. She makes pretty good money, but not much better than she did as a teacher, and she has no pension.


I am just curious though, assuming your wife makes at least base first year teacher salary of $34000, Where the hell are you taking your kid for daycare that costs that much? I had a difficult time finding any childcare facilities over $300 a week. Your childcare facility must be the shit.

I am just curious though, assuming your wife makes at least base first year teacher salary of $34000, Where the hell are you taking your kid for daycare that costs that much? I had a difficult time finding any childcare facilities over $300 a week. Your childcare facility must be the shit.

$300 a week is $1200 a month. That's over half of what she nets. She's got four or five years and a masters. Brevard pay scale. Low net might be because I make a decent bit of change so as a couple we're in a pretty high tax bracket, I dunno.

It's not worth it for us as a couple to have someone else raise our kids so that we can net another $500 or so a month (considering lower taxes like I mentioned before). Not trying to sound like a prick, we;ve cut our spending and debt down significantly and we're blessed that we can live on my salary alone.

$300 a week is $1200 a month. That's over half of what she nets. She's got four or five years and a masters. Brevard pay scale. Low net might be because I make a decent bit of change so as a couple we're in a pretty high tax bracket, I dunno.

It's not worth it for us as a couple to have someone else raise our kids so that we can net another $500 or so a month (considering lower taxes like I mentioned before). Not trying to sound like a prick, we;ve cut our spending and debt down significantly and we're blessed that we can live on my salary alone.

Yep that makes more sense. It is not just the low pay, it is how you want to raise your kids. That is commendable. We are lucky because we had great people to watch our kids(no corporate daycare), and now being an AP she gets to take my daughter with her to school. When she gets to middle school we are probably sending her to private school. We gave Volusia schools a chance and they failed misearably. Again my taxes wasted.