had enough of low end cam surge
03-10-2008, 02:54 PM
#1
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had enough of low end cam surge i took my car back to the tuners friday and just picked it up today they said they couldn't do anything to help out the low end cam surge " bucking or jerking" when cruising with light throttle. i have a torquer2 installed and i know there are guys out the running bigger cams than myself. does everyone have this problem cause the guy said its " in the nature of the cam" or is it just the tuner? i've got 2 other guys saying they can get rid of it but they might just be out for my money. please give me some honest answers cause the car isn't even enjoyable to drive unless i'm at wot all the time.
03-10-2008, 03:03 PM
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well then obiously the tuner i had it at doesn't know ****... do you think it could have anything to do with not degreeing the cam? i lined it straight up and down perfectly the car runs fantastic except for low end issues i'm so fed up i dont even want to drive it like that
03-10-2008, 03:20 PM
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They are right and wrong. It IS the nature of the cam, but a good tuner should be able to get rid of alot if not all of it for a torquer 2. Everyone has a different opinion of what a good tuner is. I say give the other guys a shot.
03-10-2008, 03:26 PM
#6
Here's what you should do:
Print out as much testimony as you can on LS1Tech where people are running similar or larger cams and were able to get rid of the cam surging with tuning. Take all of that information and go back to your tuner...slam the stack of papers down on their desk and say "Look...the internetz told me that you can tune the cam surge out." They should be more than happy to work with you after that.
Print out as much testimony as you can on LS1Tech where people are running similar or larger cams and were able to get rid of the cam surging with tuning. Take all of that information and go back to your tuner...slam the stack of papers down on their desk and say "Look...the internetz told me that you can tune the cam surge out." They should be more than happy to work with you after that.
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03-10-2008, 03:50 PM
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Not if you thought you could fix it, and you wanted to stay in business. Don't phrase it like, "I ain't paying unless.." Simply ask them what they would charge to get the tune right, i.e. !surging ext. Pay them at the end if you are satisfied, and if not then just say that this is not any better and that you would like them to try again. If they get smart with you, just tell them that you don't mind paying for quality work but you don't feel that you can pay for the work they did. Get in your car and leave. Really nothing wrong with that, just as long as you are clear about what you expect.
03-10-2008, 04:08 PM
#12
There's no reason why you can't tune out the surging. It should just be a matter of correct fueling and amount of spark. I'm not 100% sure on it, but surging can be reduced or eliminated with the right combo of those two things.
Before I'd go demanding or threatening, question the tuner like any contractor you would hire. Ask them if they've ever tuned a car similar to yours and if so give you contact info. Then contact those people and ask how they liked their experience with that shop. I'd even go as far as asking them for a ride in their car to see if it meets your expectations.
In realestate it's location location location. For modding cars, I like to think it's research, research, research.
Before I'd go demanding or threatening, question the tuner like any contractor you would hire. Ask them if they've ever tuned a car similar to yours and if so give you contact info. Then contact those people and ask how they liked their experience with that shop. I'd even go as far as asking them for a ride in their car to see if it meets your expectations.
In realestate it's location location location. For modding cars, I like to think it's research, research, research.
03-10-2008, 04:33 PM
#13
Not if you thought you could fix it, and you wanted to stay in business. Don't phrase it like, "I ain't paying unless.." Simply ask them what they would charge to get the tune right, i.e. !surging ext. Pay them at the end if you are satisfied, and if not then just say that this is not any better and that you would like them to try again. If they get smart with you, just tell them that you don't mind paying for quality work but you don't feel that you can pay for the work they did. Get in your car and leave. Really nothing wrong with that, just as long as you are clear about what you expect.
This is exactly why I've never gone into the tuning business...there are just too many internet experts out there, and too many people that think they should be getting world class service for coach fare. People just don't realize how much up front money is required to have all of the models/licenses available to run a tuning business. There are tons of costs that they need to cover, so don't expect them to react well to you walking out on them without paying.
03-10-2008, 04:51 PM
#14
Time is time, and you still should pay them for theirs. If you didn't ask good questions up front to gauge whether or not they could do a good job, then that one is on you. Simply getting in your car and leaving is not a good idea at all...it'd be like accidentally putting 87 octane gas in your car, and driving off without paying because it really wasn't what you wanted.
This is exactly why I've never gone into the tuning business...there are just too many internet experts out there, and too many people that think they should be getting world class service for coach fare. People just don't realize how much up front money is required to have all of the models/licenses available to run a tuning business. There are tons of costs that they need to cover, so don't expect them to react well to you walking out on them without paying.
This is exactly why I've never gone into the tuning business...there are just too many internet experts out there, and too many people that think they should be getting world class service for coach fare. People just don't realize how much up front money is required to have all of the models/licenses available to run a tuning business. There are tons of costs that they need to cover, so don't expect them to react well to you walking out on them without paying.
Personally, I got tired of paying other people and relying on other people, so I decided to buy HPtuners myself. This way, I have no one to complain to except myself.
But if I got a decent size cam, and paid a tuner to make the car daily drivable with excellant street manners, I should get that. It's no different than if I pay a roofer to fix a leak. I don't care how much he has in up front expenses, if the roof still leaks, I shouldn't have to pay him.
To the original poster, who was it that did your initial tune? Was it a sponsor or just a weekend tuner? If it was the later, then you get what you get sometimes. I reccomend talking to the local tuners, you're pretty close to Harris Speed works, and see what they say.
03-10-2008, 04:55 PM
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My tuner told me that the more you make the cam 'lope' the more it will buck like that at low end. So it's more of a balance between driver quality and how you want it to sound.
03-10-2008, 05:09 PM
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sorry i didn't get back sooner i just picked up the car from the tuners i got 200 dollars back and he de-tuned my car back to stock now i'm starting at square one -200 dollars first off i read everything you guys said and it sounds like it should be tune-able to get the surge out of there. i have found very few peolpe that disagree about that subject. i am going to try a different tuner and i already informed him about the problem with the old tuner just so everyone knows the tuner i took it to is " harris speed works" they are fairly well known around my area and i thought they would be able to take care of the problem but he says no matter what timing or air fuel he gives the car he can't get rid of the surgeing.
xbrokex who is your tuner and is he located close to pa??
another weird thing that happened with the car when he tuned it vs stock is that the car would load up rich on take off and it would hesitate real bad and then clear its self up and then take off on its own. it was very hard for me to drive the car on the street bc i would either have to deal with the car loading up or ride the clutch real bad to avoid spinning the tires.
thanks for everyones info i am going to try and talk to people before i spend any more money
xbrokex who is your tuner and is he located close to pa??
another weird thing that happened with the car when he tuned it vs stock is that the car would load up rich on take off and it would hesitate real bad and then clear its self up and then take off on its own. it was very hard for me to drive the car on the street bc i would either have to deal with the car loading up or ride the clutch real bad to avoid spinning the tires.
thanks for everyones info i am going to try and talk to people before i spend any more money
03-10-2008, 05:11 PM
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But it goes both ways as well. You have people who buy the program and licenses and instantly become an expert and think they can charge as being an expert.
Personally, I got tired of paying other people and relying on other people, so I decided to buy HPtuners myself. This way, I have no one to complain to except myself.
But if I got a decent size cam, and paid a tuner to make the car daily drivable with excellant street manners, I should get that. It's no different than if I pay a roofer to fix a leak. I don't care how much he has in up front expenses, if the roof still leaks, I shouldn't have to pay him.
To the original poster, who was it that did your initial tune? Was it a sponsor or just a weekend tuner? If it was the later, then you get what you get sometimes. I reccomend talking to the local tuners, you're pretty close to Harris Speed works, and see what they say.
Personally, I got tired of paying other people and relying on other people, so I decided to buy HPtuners myself. This way, I have no one to complain to except myself.
But if I got a decent size cam, and paid a tuner to make the car daily drivable with excellant street manners, I should get that. It's no different than if I pay a roofer to fix a leak. I don't care how much he has in up front expenses, if the roof still leaks, I shouldn't have to pay him.
To the original poster, who was it that did your initial tune? Was it a sponsor or just a weekend tuner? If it was the later, then you get what you get sometimes. I reccomend talking to the local tuners, you're pretty close to Harris Speed works, and see what they say.
03-10-2008, 05:52 PM
#18
Well, I reccomended HSW only because they were close enough to you. Again, I personally got tired of giving away my money. For slightly more than you originally paid, you could have you're own HPtuners and be able to tune the car yourself. I personally am not familiar with that cam, but one question I have is what rear gears do you have. If they are stock 3.42s, that will hurt low end drivability with a large cam.
Good luck, and let us know how you make out.
Good luck, and let us know how you make out.
03-10-2008, 05:57 PM
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Maybe he had a case of the Yips when he was tuning it? It's a struggle to find the right tuner for your car sometimes. The closest one to me is ~3 hours one way. It's all part of the mod game. You could always call TSP since it is their cam and see if they could recommend a tuner near you. It's worth a shot I guess.
