I'm Dropping in an LS1 into a 4door 04' 3 series BMW!
04-14-2008, 09:59 PM
#1
I'm Dropping in an LS1 into a 4door 04' 3 series BMW! Hi everyone!
Just joined the forum to learn everything I can about the LS1 and what can be done to it. I grew up around Ford Cleveland 351's but never the chevy small blocks. Looking forward to being the first to drop in an LS1 into a sleeper 330i BMW. Don't hate...the e46 chasis is probably one of the best car chasis ever made, but with a motor to lack. Actually bought an M3 motor to swap in, but it was crap when I received it. Got back to thinking and realized what I've always known....there's no replacement for displacement!
The LS1 weight wise is actually supposed to be slightly lighter than the iron block IL6 M3 motor, with a lower CG. Once dropped in, I should have a near perfect 50/50 weight distribution. Coupled with an entire suspension swap, subframe stregthening, bulletproof t56, I should have a real TRACK winner. Not after the drag so much as I am the track. Anyways, I'll be coming back to this forum to get advice as to how to tweak the most amount of power from the LS1 before goin' FI.
Looking forward to this one!
Just joined the forum to learn everything I can about the LS1 and what can be done to it. I grew up around Ford Cleveland 351's but never the chevy small blocks. Looking forward to being the first to drop in an LS1 into a sleeper 330i BMW. Don't hate...the e46 chasis is probably one of the best car chasis ever made, but with a motor to lack. Actually bought an M3 motor to swap in, but it was crap when I received it. Got back to thinking and realized what I've always known....there's no replacement for displacement!
The LS1 weight wise is actually supposed to be slightly lighter than the iron block IL6 M3 motor, with a lower CG. Once dropped in, I should have a near perfect 50/50 weight distribution. Coupled with an entire suspension swap, subframe stregthening, bulletproof t56, I should have a real TRACK winner. Not after the drag so much as I am the track. Anyways, I'll be coming back to this forum to get advice as to how to tweak the most amount of power from the LS1 before goin' FI.
Looking forward to this one!
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04-14-2008, 10:30 PM
#2
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That is an awsome car for a lsx swap. I've always wanted to get a newer 5 or 7 series with a blowed up motor or something and swap in a stock ls2/4l60e and have a nice cruiser.
04-14-2008, 11:35 PM
#4
Good luck with your swap.
The front strut towers are apparantly a bit further apart than the E36, so that will make header construction a bit easier.
The most difficult aspect will be most likely wiring the gauge cluster. If what I have read is correct, the cluster exclusively uses CAN for all gauge data. You could probably get around this if you opened the cluster and removed the CAN decoder electronics and then just wired the gauges directly.
The front strut towers are apparantly a bit further apart than the E36, so that will make header construction a bit easier.
The most difficult aspect will be most likely wiring the gauge cluster. If what I have read is correct, the cluster exclusively uses CAN for all gauge data. You could probably get around this if you opened the cluster and removed the CAN decoder electronics and then just wired the gauges directly.
04-15-2008, 08:10 AM
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Good luck with your swap.
The front strut towers are apparantly a bit further apart than the E36, so that will make header construction a bit easier.
The most difficult aspect will be most likely wiring the gauge cluster. If what I have read is correct, the cluster exclusively uses CAN for all gauge data. You could probably get around this if you opened the cluster and removed the CAN decoder electronics and then just wired the gauges directly.
The front strut towers are apparantly a bit further apart than the E36, so that will make header construction a bit easier.
The most difficult aspect will be most likely wiring the gauge cluster. If what I have read is correct, the cluster exclusively uses CAN for all gauge data. You could probably get around this if you opened the cluster and removed the CAN decoder electronics and then just wired the gauges directly.
My suggestion would be to use the stock sensors for everything but tach and speedo so you can retain fuel level, coolant temp, oil temp on the cluster. I bet with some fiddling with trigger wheels and such you could get the speedo to work right. Dakota Digital makes some adapters that will work. FWIW I don't think the gauges are can bus.
04-15-2008, 09:31 AM
#7
Should be interesting. It has been done before. Retaining your cluster and climate controls will be a challenge because of the CAN
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/A...aho_119671.htm
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/A...aho_119671.htm
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04-15-2008, 11:16 AM
#8
My suggestion would be to use the stock sensors for everything but tach and speedo so you can retain fuel level, coolant temp, oil temp on the cluster. I bet with some fiddling with trigger wheels and such you could get the speedo to work right. Dakota Digital makes some adapters that will work. FWIW I don't think the gauges are can bus.
04-16-2008, 11:19 AM
#9
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I'd like to see an E46 swap. There are a number of E36 swaps running around. I think the E46 chassis looks great and should be similar to the E36 except for the electrical issues.
04-16-2008, 12:31 PM
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The rear subframes on the 3-series E46's are prone to snap/separate from the body. There's HUGE write-up on the poor design on E46fanatics.com. People were snapping them with the stock BMW drivetrains. I'm sure the subframe wouldn't last long with with all of the additional torque of an LS motor.
Unless you can reinforce the rear frame, I wouldn't even try that conversion. I owned an 00' 323ci and I started hearing the crunching in the rear right before I sold it. Would have been $6000 to fix it through the dealer.
04-16-2008, 01:07 PM
#11
Our LS1/T56/harness/all accessories/engine mounts/intake manifold weighed 603lbs; 260lbs on each engine mount (at the engine cross-member mounting pads) and 83 lbs on the tranny mount. Very light and compact!
As with others, the integration of the CAN bus will be a challenge (unless GM adpots it as a control standard for their systems ...) check out:
http://www.interfacebus.com/Design_Connector_CAN.html
for some basic info on the CAN Bus architecture. Some special-machine builders of industrial automation are using CAN in place of other control bus architectures from Siemens or Allen-Bradley. Depending on where you live, you may find a "friend" at such a firm who can moonlight help you. You are gonna need a "heavy hitter" electrical/software engineer to get the job done.
As with others, the integration of the CAN bus will be a challenge (unless GM adpots it as a control standard for their systems ...) check out:
http://www.interfacebus.com/Design_Connector_CAN.html
for some basic info on the CAN Bus architecture. Some special-machine builders of industrial automation are using CAN in place of other control bus architectures from Siemens or Allen-Bradley. Depending on where you live, you may find a "friend" at such a firm who can moonlight help you. You are gonna need a "heavy hitter" electrical/software engineer to get the job done.
Last edited by Steve VanS; 04-16-2008 at 01:21 PM.
04-16-2008, 02:31 PM
#12
There is no way in hell I'd put an Gen 3 into a 3series E46! I'm not sure about the 5 or 7 series.
The rear subframes on the 3-series E46's are prone to snap/separate from the body. There's HUGE write-up on the poor design on E46fanatics.com. People were snapping them with the stock BMW drivetrains. I'm sure the subframe wouldn't last long with with all of the additional torque of an LS motor.
Unless you can reinforce the rear frame, I wouldn't even try that conversion. I owned an 00' 323ci and I started hearing the crunching in the rear right before I sold it. Would have been $6000 to fix it through the dealer.
The rear subframes on the 3-series E46's are prone to snap/separate from the body. There's HUGE write-up on the poor design on E46fanatics.com. People were snapping them with the stock BMW drivetrains. I'm sure the subframe wouldn't last long with with all of the additional torque of an LS motor.
Unless you can reinforce the rear frame, I wouldn't even try that conversion. I owned an 00' 323ci and I started hearing the crunching in the rear right before I sold it. Would have been $6000 to fix it through the dealer.
04-16-2008, 03:21 PM
#13
I'm pretty sure that the BMW speedo drive runs off the differential, so the speedo shouldn't be a problem. As far as I can tell the tach should be the only normal gauge that will be a problem as long as you use the stock BMW senders. The ABS, claimate control, tach, and other BMW gadgets might be difficult though.
My conversion uses a Bosch 5.3 ABS system and all I will lose is the traction control system when I remove the stock powertrain.
The only electrical issues that I can forsee with this are the anti-theft system (should be easily removed) and wiring the gauge cluster.
The speedo will most likely operate from the ABS unit via one of the wheel speed sensors (it does on all Bosch 5.3 equipped vehicles, 5.7 as well I beleive, not sure which one the 3-series uses).
Electrically this swap should not be too complex.
04-16-2008, 05:29 PM
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Actually, it's not. Unless you consider dropping the entire rear end and welding in a TMS kit, easy. Putting in the reinforcement is definitely NOT a DIY; unless, of course, you have access to a welder and have sufficient fabrication skills.
Tuner Motorsports says the job requires 13 hours @ $95.00/hr. That's $1,235.00 not including the kit and the neccessary alignment afterwards.
Keep these figures in consideration if you're serious about doing this conversion.
Tuner Motorsports says the job requires 13 hours @ $95.00/hr. That's $1,235.00 not including the kit and the neccessary alignment afterwards.
Keep these figures in consideration if you're serious about doing this conversion.
04-16-2008, 07:29 PM
#17
Actually, it's not. Unless you consider dropping the entire rear end and welding in a TMS kit, easy. Putting in the reinforcement is definitely NOT a DIY; unless, of course, you have access to a welder and have sufficient fabrication skills.
Tuner Motorsports says the job requires 13 hours @ $95.00/hr. That's $1,235.00 not including the kit and the neccessary alignment afterwards.
Keep these figures in consideration if you're serious about doing this conversion.
Tuner Motorsports says the job requires 13 hours @ $95.00/hr. That's $1,235.00 not including the kit and the neccessary alignment afterwards.
Keep these figures in consideration if you're serious about doing this conversion.
I've taken the entire rear subframe out of several BMWs (e36 and e46). It's not fun, but pretty simple....
04-17-2008, 07:47 AM
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You're right, it's very time consuming, but not overly difficult. But for the lamen, that doesn't have fab skills and/or a welder, it's something to take into consideration if they were to do a swap like this. The last thing I'd want to see happen is for someone to drop serious coin on a drivetrain swap, and then unknowingly tear their subframe into pieces.
I think it's an awesome concept (I absoluletly love rao's car) but I've seen so many of these things come apart, that'd I'd be affraid to really get on it.
I think it's an awesome concept (I absoluletly love rao's car) but I've seen so many of these things come apart, that'd I'd be affraid to really get on it.
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