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224/228 Cam + UD Balancer Results: +57 rwhp / + 45 rwtq

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Old 05-01-2008, 01:28 PM
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Default 224/228 Cam + UD Balancer Results: +57 rwhp / + 45 rwtq

Here's a quick nutshell of my results. I'll post a long winded, Type A, **** retentive post after this one for those interested in the gory details (I also like to have a record of the stuff I do to my car, so what better place than here.)

Summary of Results:

Car: Full bolton (less electric waterpump and UD Harmonic Balancer) w/ cats 05 CTS-V (LS6).

New Cam (224/228 111+0 custom PatrickG spec) + 25% UD Balancer.

Change:
+ 57 Rwhp
+ 45 Rwhtq

Max:
412 Rwhp
380 Rwtq

Average (2700 rpm - 6300 rpm):
361 (+50)
315 (+51)

Dyno was PSI's Mustang 1100, using SAE correction. (Note: on another local Mustang 1100 (FBC's) my baseline numbers were + 23 rwhp and +15 rwtq higher, for whatever that's worth)



Pre cam, and base-tuned cam video, cold start:


I'll try to get a warm start post final tune video up sometime soon.

Previous post on pre-cam mods & dyno results.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/822519-stock-head-cam-346-ls6-w-bolton-s-pre-post-fast-90-90-results.html

Thanks to:

Jeff @ PSI (GrannySShifting) for the install and the tune
PatrickG for the cam spec
A502slo, 2c5s, VetteNutz and JonCR96Z for answering a bunch of questions.
New Era, ByunSpeed, Thunder Racing, Texas Speed & Lingenfelter for the help in purchasing

The car runs great, and really pulls nicely now. Utterly boring details in next post.

-Chris
Old 05-01-2008, 01:29 PM
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Initial mods:
- Corsa 2.5" dual Exhaust w/ H Pipe.
- Kooks 1.75" longtubes, w/ metallic cats.
- Lingenfleter CAI (basically a K&N filter surrounded by plastic, sealing to the hood to create a 'cool' compartment, sperate from the rest of the engine compartment.)
- Stealth V FFV v2 (basically this is like a smooth bellows for a CTS-V. It replaces the stock squeeze tube and elbow to the TB.)
- Nick Williams 90 MM Billet Throttle body w/ ETC.
- Tony Mamo ported Fast 90 Intake Manifold.
- Dyno tune by Brett @ F-Body Central.

I'll list my new mods below, and give a quick description why I picked what I did. First though, my selection criteria:

1) I only want to add stuff once, so I'd rather spend more now, than have to upgrade or replace later
2) This car is a Daily Driver, so reliability trumps price for me.
3) I take my car to the road course approximately 4 weekends a year. High RPM operation is a big consideration for me (see #2)
With that in mind, here is a break down of what/why/how-much. Keep in mind that if you shop around, you may be able to get a lower price, or a package deal. Prices and web links are for info only.

Caveat: I'm just a guy on the Internet. Below is how I came to my component choices. I think I was pretty thorough, but this may not work for you, or some of my info may not be complete. DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK.

Finally, I listed out all this stuff in excruciating detail, because (well again I’m ****), but in other “here’s my results posts”, I always seemed to have a lot of question on why someone chose what they did, or what the cost/part number might be etc., so I figured I’d spell it all out. Please point out any errors you may find to help others out.

-Chris
Old 05-01-2008, 01:29 PM
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Components:

1) Yella Terra Ultralite 1.7 ratio non adjustable rockers.
· Description: YT Ultra Lites are lighter than stock, and most importantly they are lighter at the end of the rocker, this making the Momentum of Inertia (MOI) less, which *should* make them more efficient than stock. Also they a 'quasi' shaft mounted. Each set of intake/exhaust valves is on it's own shaft. This makes the rockers more stable at higher RPM's. It also makes them a LOT less expensive than full on shaft mounted options. YT Ultra lites require no modification to the valve covers to fit. 1.7 ratio is the stock ration. They also offer 1.8
· Part Number: 6645
· Website: http://www.mphparts.com/mm5/merchant...MM&Product_Cod e=113-6645&Category_Code=GTOLS1VLV
· Cost: $419.99

2) Cloyes Hex Adjust timing set (single chain)
· Description: The Cloyes stuff is very nice. Probably overkill from a chain perspective. It offers infinite advance retard capability (not it 1 degree increments like most), and is fairly dummy proof to install, unlike a lot of adjustable timing sets. The chain itself is very high quality, and negates the need for a dual roller chain. I ended up installing the cam dot to dot, so I didn’t end up using the adjustability portion, however it’s there for the future if I ever need it.
· Part Number: 3153A
· Website: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...rt=clo-9-3153a
· Cost: $169.69
· Note: I couldn’t find a sponsor that carried this. MODS if you know of one, feel free to substitute a link.

3) Comp Hardened push rods (7.425)
· Description: The hardened chromoly pushrods flex less than stock, and provide a more stable and robust valve train, which equates to better higher RPM performance, and overall more reliability.
· Part Number: 7796-16
· Website: http://www.thunderracing.com/catalog...id=17&pcid=106
· Cost: 132.99

4) Patriot Gold 'Extreme' Dual springs with Ti retainers and Super 7 locks
· Description: Valve springs are a wear item, and will eventually need to be replaced. Stock design is single beehives. The patriots are standard duals. Typical beehives are good up to .6" of cam lift, above that it's good to go with a dual sprint to handle the lift, and give the proper amount of seat pressure. While dual springs are a bit heavier (more MOI), than beehives, they also have 2 springs, so if one breaks, you still have the other, to hopefully get the valve out of the pistons way if you do have a failure. If a single breaks, the probability is very high that your engine is going to eat a valve, which is 'not good'. The Ti retainers cut down on weight over the stock retainers (less MOI). Finally the Super7 locks are higher quality than stock, and better than the ones that Texas Speed includes in their springs kits. NOTE: Texas Speed and patriot both use the same spring manufacturer, so the actual springs are the same, the only difference between the two is the associated hardware.
· Part Number: 198-8501
· Website: http://www.thunderracing.com/catalog...d=815&pcid=109
· Cost: $279.99

5) Melling high flow oil pump
· Description: The Melling pump is a bit higher quality, and pumps 18% more oil than OEM.
· Part Number: 10296
· Website: http://www.byunspeed.com/product_inf...oducts_id=6642
· Cost: $139.95
Old 05-01-2008, 01:29 PM
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Components (continued):

6) 42lbs flow matched Lucas injectors
· Note 1: At WOT before the new install, my injector duty cycle (IDC) was at 92%. While you can go over 100%, you start going lean at higher RPM/s WOT (Bad). If also lessens the injectors lifespan running them over 100%. With my cam I will be well over 100% IDC. You can get away without this for a while, but will probably eventually need to upgrade injectors.
· Note 2: After the Install at WOT my IDC was 60%. I’m definitely not going to run out of injector any time soon.
· Description: Stock injectors are 28.5 lbs/hr at 58 PSI fuel rail pressure. I went flow matched so I know that all the injectors are flowing what they are supposed to be. New Era gave me a nice spreadsheet of what each was actually flowing (within 1% of each other). You can then put the two 'fattest' injectors in #7 and #8 cylinders, since they tend to run the leanest based on the way the intakes work on our cars. Please note that these injectors are spec'd for an Gen III LSX, which has a different injector connection than an Gen IV LSX. Also note that some injectors are spec's at 40 PSI fuel rail pressure, and some are at 58 PSI. LSX fuel rails run at 58 PSI, however you can use injectors spec's at 40. For example the ford motorsports red top 30# per hour are rated at 40 PSI, so on GM cars, they act more like a 36-38 lbs/hr injector when running at 58 PSI. I went with 42 Lbs/hr, as I don't foresee my car ever going over 500 rwhp (probably not anywhere near that but I wanted to be safe, see selection criteria #1 above)
· Part Number: ??
· Website: http://www.neweraperformanceparts.com/default.asp?S=503&A=E&PKV=c5l42fm|0
· Cost: $329.95


7) All ARP fasteners
· Description: I went with the following ARP Fasteners:
Edlebrock LS1 Rocker Arm Bolts (made by ARP): EDL-8597 $29.95 (shorter than normal to prevent flow obstruction) (NOTE: My installer said these didn’t fit, so they didn’t go on. For sale if interested )
ARP LS1 Harmonic Balancer Bolt: 234-2503 $26.24
ARP HP Series Cam Sprocket Bolt Kit: 134-1003 $8.88
ARP GENIII/LS Series Small Black Timing Cover Bolt Kit: $24.39
ARP GENIII/LS Cam retainer Bolts: 113-134-1002: $7.49
· Part Number: (see description)
· Website:
http://www.thunderracing.com/catalog...acturer&mid=15
http://www.lingenfelter.com/store/edl-8597.html
· Cost: See description

8) ASP 25% UD Harmonic Balancer
· Description: The harmonic balancer on the crank shaft is 25% smaller than OEM, make it lighter (MOI), and spinning the accessories 25% slower, thus requiring less power to turn them.
· NOTE: This will require a smaller pulley belt. Since I have a CTS-V, none of the vendors had a belt pre-sized as part of a package for me. My installer ended up needing to measure, and came up with:

· Part Number: 941020
· Website: http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item...d=642&catid=16
· Cost: $245.99

9) Cam Shaft
· Description: Makes the valves open and close . There are a lot of options when considering a cam. How do you want it to perform (daily driver, street/strip, strip only/ max effort, road course), how do you want it to sound and idle (stock sounding, mild lope, medium lope, heavy lope/barley idles), etc. My main criteria where (in addition to my main criteria above) was good on the road course, and would I wouldn't need to replace valve springs every 20k - 30k miles (note this is a big reason I went with the higher spec Dual Extreme valve springs, which are rated up to .660 lift, even though my cam's max lift is .609.) Finally, I had Lingenfelter get Comp Cams to run the cam through their Adcole cam measurement machine after it was cut, to validate that what I ordered is what I got. The Adcole is much more accurate than a 'cam-doctor' machine. I will use this report in conjunction with the adjustable timing set, to make sure my cam is installed dead nuts.
· CAM SPEC’s:

· Part Number: N/A
· Website: http://guerragroup.com/camshaft_help.htm
· Cost: Cam spec - $25.00. Custom grind + Adcole report $415.00


10) Miscellaneous Crap:
SDPC Cam Install Gasket Kit: KITSD51902: $61.95
ARP Assembly Lube: 100-9903: $6.95
COMP Cams Engine Assembly Lube 102: $8.99
Mobil 1 x 13 Qts: $50.00
Gallon of Distilled Water: $2.00
Gallon of DexCool: $20.00(??)
Old 05-01-2008, 01:29 PM
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Rather long winded, Thanks for reading this far.

So what's the cost:
Parts: $2370.44
Dyno Tune: $500.00
Install: Cost will vary

This install was definitely on the ‘overkill’ side of things.

Bottom line is that the car runs great now, sounds awesome (at least to my subjective ear), and pulls very nicely. I’m definitely one happy camper.

Next step will be some nice top shelf heads, gaskets & lifters, then I’m done .

-Chris
Old 05-01-2008, 01:51 PM
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Great writeup and very impressive results. I would love to see how the power is in the upper rpm ranges. Did you have any dyno runs showing the power above 6200 rpm?
__________________

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2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
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Old 05-01-2008, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Patrick G
Great writeup and very impressive results. I would love to see how the power is in the upper rpm ranges. Did you have any dyno runs showing the power above 6200 rpm?
I've only got it up to 6300. I think it maxed out at 6400, but forgot to bump up the parameter on the Mustang.

Also right now I have the idle set at 850, once I straighten out an engine mount issue, I'll move it back down to stock. (on my 4th set of engine mounts, damned cadillac rubber **** )

Thanks again for your help in spec'ing my cam. I am definately VERY HAPPY. This cam is WELL BEYOND my expectations.

-Chris
Old 05-01-2008, 02:39 PM
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I wonder how many MS3s and G5X3s you beat out with these bad *** lobes.
Old 05-01-2008, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Ryan L
I wonder how many MS3s and G5X3s you beat out with these bad *** lobes.
LOL. I just read your thread. 'Tiny' cam for the win!



I need to go find a dynojet now, so I can have some 'my d!ck is bigger than your d!ck" numbers

Do you have a clip of your car running with that cam? I wonder if mine is choppier than yours?


-Chris
Old 05-01-2008, 03:22 PM
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I rarely see people running cams with no advance. I love how your graph just keeps pulling up top.
Old 05-01-2008, 06:10 PM
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Nice results!
Old 05-01-2008, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by trukk
LOL. I just read your thread. 'Tiny' cam for the win!

-Chris
When I read that thread, I thought about you saying you didn't expect +55. I almost sent you the link but I guess you found it.

Jon

Last edited by JonCR96Z; 05-01-2008 at 08:56 PM.
Old 05-02-2008, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by JonCR96Z
When I read that thread, I thought about you saying you didn't expect +55. I almost sent you the link but I guess you found it.

Jon
Heh, I wouldn't have bet on it, but sure am happy. I should have graphed out to 6700 ish.

-Chris
Old 05-02-2008, 09:06 PM
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damn i want a cam, and what is the ffv 2? Can you post or send me a picture of it, Id like to see if its significantly different than mine. Thanks trukk
Old 05-03-2008, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by 04ctsvfl
damn i want a cam, and what is the ffv 2? Can you post or send me a picture of it, Id like to see if its significantly different than mine. Thanks trukk
Nothing special about an FFV v2. All it is is a 90 degree silicone elbow 4" on TB side, 3.5" on tube side. Approx 14" polished aluminum tube, connected toa 2" wide 3.5" silicone connector which staps to the MAF.

I'll try to remember to snap a pic.

-Chris
Old 05-05-2008, 08:19 PM
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Added a warm start video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfmyP5xpG34

Also waxed the car up and threw my Hoosiers on to do a quick heat cycle before going to summit point this Friday.





-Chris
Old 05-05-2008, 09:41 PM
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Very nice #'s congrats, seeing those Hoosier's on a caddy looks crazy.
Old 05-08-2008, 07:45 PM
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You washed it! Congrats!
Old 05-12-2008, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by GrannySShifting
You washed it! Congrats!
Once a year, wether it neads it or not.

BTW, car ran awesome at the track. No engine issues at all. Not a single CEL the entire day, which actually surprised me, as I pound it pretty hard for long periods at the track (way beyond what we'd see on the dyno).

I need motor mounts now in a BAD way. I think my engine might fall out.

Hopefully a week or two, I'll have some prototypes to test.

Thanks again for the awesome work on my car. I'm one very satisfied customer.

-Chris
Old 05-15-2008, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by 04ctsvfl
damn i want a cam, and what is the ffv 2? Can you post or send me a picture of it, Id like to see if its significantly different than mine. Thanks trukk
Per your request. As you can see it's nothing ground breaking. Definately a tight fit.

-Chris



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