Automotive News, Media & Press - It's On - ZR1 Chief Says GTR Won't be King of the 'Ring for Long

Not So Fast! Chevy Could Shorten Nissan's Nurburgring Celebration

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/il/news/2008/0502/2009.nissan.gt.r.500.jpg
Godzilla now holds the lap record for a production car at 7:29 minutes.

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/il/news/2008/0502/2009.chevrolet.corvette.500.jpg
Can King Kong challenge Godzilla on the 'Ring?

Date posted: 05-02-2008

DETROIT — Nissan was so proud of the GT-R's production-car lap-record run of 7:29 on the Nürburgring Nordschleife that CEO Carlos Ghosn personally delivered the news to journalists gathered in Portugal.

It must be sweet for Ghosn who championed the GT-R when Nissan was in dire financial trouble. And trumping Chevrolet's double-barrel announcements last week regarding the Corvette ZR1's outrageous 638-hp output and its 205-mph top speed, doesn't hurt either.

But wait, didn't we quote Corvette Chief Engineer Tadge Juechter as saying that the ZR1 "will be able to take the production-car track record at any racetrack"? Yes, we did. What we didn't mention was that in the same interview, Juechter said that, while the company didn't yet have a full-production ZR1 to test at Nürburgring's old track, he confidently predicted the super-Vette would do the deed in "Seven minutes, twenty-something seconds."

Hey, is that a gauntlet we see there on the ground? Anyone care to pick that up? (We're looking directly at you, Chevy.)

What this means to you: In the grand scheme, a car's lap time of a wicked, old German racetrack might not mean much. Except that we all know it does. — Daniel Pund, Senior Editor, Detroit

Will it get to make the attempt using a rolling start and 'R' compound race tires like it appears that the Nissan did?:huh: ;)

Give each the same tires and see what they can do. If you want a better head to head comparrison, deactivate the GTRs AWD.

Id take that vette no matter what any report says. :devil:

The vette is a total masterpiece. The vette weighs less, puts out more power, but its disadvantage is obviously in the rwd. So while the ZR1 has some large advantages, the GTR also has a great advantage.

The ZR1 is going to take the cake. And its not because I like it (which I do), it just seems like the obvious choice. Its going to be close. I would really love to watch these two cars go at it on a road coarse. That would be fun to see.

let nissan keep their slicks and rolling start...i wanna see the vette outrun it (the 7.29) from a standstill...

I think the ZR1 will do it as-is...geez on the first lap it ran when it got there it ran a 7:40, only 2 secs behind the GT-R first hard-wrought time. I say they should wring out the best time they can get from the ZR1 on run-flats and from a standing start...I bet it's better than 7:29. Then after they do that, throw on the R-comps and hit the line running and see what the Z can do on GTR terms.

I think the ZR1 will do it as-is...geez on the first lap it ran when it got there it ran a 7:40, only 2 secs behind the GT-R first hard-wrought time. I say they should wring out the best time they can get from the ZR1 on run-flats and from a standing start...I bet it's better than 7:29. Then after they do that, throw on the R-comps and hit the line running and see what the Z can do on GTR terms.

+1... Beat them fair and square, and rape them playing their own game.

Just wanted to note that there are also rampant rumors among enthusiasts that the 7:29 time was achieved on a modified course (The standard course run for testing purposes is the Nordschleife and Betonschleife)...supposedly this test included only the Nordschleife.

Not presenting this as fact or substantiated in any way, just that it's a surprisingly widespread rumor that is even addressed on Nissan-worshipper sites. IF it were true, it would be about a 5-6 second difference, which still results in a faster time than the 7:38. Though if you think about it, it's alot more believable that the car that ran 7:38 the first time ran a 7:35 later on...3 seconds is believable, 9 is a bit harder to trust.

I say they should wring out the best time they can get from the ZR1 on run-flats and from a standing start...I bet it's better than 7:29. Then after they do that, throw on the R-comps and hit the line running and see what the Z can do on GTR terms.Agreed. :nod:

What the fuck is up with all these threads? I am about to loose it.

What the fuck is up with all these threads? I am about to loose it.

Then stop reading them. :eyes:

If you want a better head to head comparrison, deactivate the GTRs AWD.

Yeah and lets deactivate the zr1's 2 extra cylinders while we're at it :eyes:

Please don't start this type of game again...

What the fuck is up with all these threads? I am about to loose it.

Then stop reading them. :eyes:

Agreed, what a tough concept...

I think the ZR1 will do it as-is...geez on the first lap it ran when it got there it ran a 7:40, only 2 secs behind the GT-R first hard-wrought time. I say they should wring out the best time they can get from the ZR1 on run-flats and from a standing start...I bet it's better than 7:29. Then after they do that, throw on the R-comps and hit the line running and see what the Z can do on GTR terms.

No, the ZR1 ran a mid 7:40's as stated by Autocar.

No, the ZR1 ran a mid 7:40's as stated by Autocar.

your such a faggot, there was two guys in the car and they were hand counting you moron. quit beating on a already solved argument... and its weird that GM uses a standing start for testing, I wonder what Datsun uses??? maybe a rolling start???

The vette is a total masterpiece. The vette weighs less, puts out more power, but its disadvantage is obviously in the rwd. So while the ZR1 has some large advantages, the GTR also has a great advantage.

The ZR1 is going to take the cake. And its not because I like it (which I do), it just seems like the obvious choice. Its going to be close. I would really love to watch these two cars go at it on a road coarse. That would be fun to see.

The Vettes "masterpiece" pails in comparison to what the GTR offers. Not even close imo. Secondly, this is the regular GTR we're talking about that ran 7:29. The Vspec is 350-375lbs lighter(about a 150lb difference than ZR1) and has an increase of 75-100hp.

your such a faggot, there was two guys in the car and they were hand counting you moron. quit beating on a already solved argument... and its weird that GM uses a standing start for testing, I wonder what Datsun uses??? maybe a rolling start???

I hope you understand that the Nurburgring doesnt allow rolling starts to be documented!

Even if they did have another passenger in the car, it still weighed less than the GTR. Face it, it didnt crack 7:30's, despite having 150hp and 400lb weight advantage of the standard GTR. What a crowning achievment :eyes:. Ill save my 50-60k and get a GTR.

I hope you understand that the Nurburgring doesnt allow rolling starts to be documented!

This isn't documented by the ring officials. The runs aren't even timed by the officials. "Test lapping" is done and timed completely by the individuals using the track at the time...an official checks the car to make sure it complies with track rules (which is kinda pointless for a street car so there really isn't alot of attention paid there), they are issued a pit area for equipment staging, and that's it. Test drivers are able to use any section of track that is cleared for use that day.

Not even sanctioned events are timed by track officials. The governing body oversees all event officiating.

I hope you understand that it is not speculation, but common knowledge that the GT-R acheived it's times with a rolling start...

http://www.dpccars.com/car-videos/10-26-07page-Nissan-GT-R-runs-the-Nurburgring.htm

This is not uncommon practice, a good chunk of the cars on the "official" list used the same procedures in their runs...some did not. Shows how great of a gauge this new found ring frenzy really is when it comes to performance. :eyes:

Even if they did have another passenger in the car, it still weighed less than the GTR. Face it, it didnt crack 7:30's, despite having 150hp and 400lb weight advantage of the standard GTR. What a crowning achievment :eyes:. Ill save my 50-60k and get a GTR.

The GT-R took six months of on and off-track testing, specially engineered tires, AWD, and every trick in the book to run a 7:29 just a few weeks ago. It's first run on the ring was 8:14. Well the ZR1 just showed up last week and it's first run was a 7:42.

Do a little interpolation there and go cry about what you learn.

This isn't documented by the ring officials. The runs aren't even timed by the officials. "Test lapping" is done and timed completely by the individuals using the track at the time...an official checks the car to make sure it complies with track rules (which is kinda pointless for a street car so there really isn't alot of attention paid there), they are issued a pit area for equipment staging, and that's it. Test drivers are able to use any section of track that is cleared for use that day.

Not even sanctioned events are timed by track officials. The governing body oversees all event officiating.

I hope you understand that it is not speculation, but common knowledge that the GT-R acheived it's times with a rolling start...

http://www.dpccars.com/car-videos/10-26-07page-Nissan-GT-R-runs-the-Nurburgring.htm

This is not uncommon practice, a good chunk of the cars on the "official" list used the same procedures in their runs...some did not. Shows how great of a gauge this new found ring frenzy really is when it comes to performance. :eyes:



The GT-R took six months of on and off-track testing, specially engineered tires, AWD, and every trick in the book to run a 7:29 just a few weeks ago. It's first run on the ring was 8:14. Well the ZR1 just showed up last week and it's first run was a 7:42.

Do a little interpolation there and go cry about what you learn.

I see what you did there.


Don't go bringing facts into this now. Cellis has some damn good points loaded with bias and omission.

Yeah and lets deactivate the zr1's 2 extra cylinders while we're at it :eyes:

Please don't start this type of game again...





Agreed, what a tough concept...

I agree 100%.

I am a Vette fan 'til the day I die, but your posts are always indifferent and free of fanboysim. Please, stay in this thread! :chug:

Yeah, facts suck, I heard the GTR ran the ring in 92.7 in Reverse. Weird.

Cellis has some damn good points loaded with bias and omission.:lol: ;)

it just confuses me as to what this guy does... he seriously has nothing better to do but get on a GM based board and troll.... yes your a f#$%ing troll who doesn't have a life :gtfo:

This isn't documented by the ring officials. The runs aren't even timed by the officials. "Test lapping" is done and timed completely by the individuals using the track at the time...an official checks the car to make sure it complies with track rules (which is kinda pointless for a street car so there really isn't alot of attention paid there), they are issued a pit area for equipment staging, and that's it. Test drivers are able to use any section of track that is cleared for use that day.

Not even sanctioned events are timed by track officials. The governing body oversees all event officiating.

I hope you understand that it is not speculation, but common knowledge that the GT-R acheived it's times with a rolling start...

http://www.dpccars.com/car-videos/10-26-07page-Nissan-GT-R-runs-the-Nurburgring.htm

This is not uncommon practice, a good chunk of the cars on the "official" list used the same procedures in their runs...some did not. Shows how great of a gauge this new found ring frenzy really is when it comes to performance. :eyes:



The GT-R took six months of on and off-track testing, specially engineered tires, AWD, and every trick in the book to run a 7:29 just a few weeks ago. It's first run on the ring was 8:14. Well the ZR1 just showed up last week and it's first run was a 7:42.

Do a little interpolation there and go cry about what you learn.
Nice try. You're a little wrong with that last statement, but I'll give you points for trying. I don't think he is actually capable of learning anything.

Nice try. You're a little wrong with that last statement, but I'll give you points for trying. I don't think he is actually capable of learning anything.

Yeah I know...I rarely post anything in response to his nonsense because it seems a waste of perfectly good logic...but sometimes I have to set the facts straight for the benefit of others. This was one of those cases.

The ZR1 will be a monster for sure. I hope like hell it beats that time just to shut up the retards. It does have it work cut out for it though because that much HP is hard to put down when compared to a AWD car with moderate HP levels. The rear drive is a lot more fun though and I'd rather have a supercharged V-8 than a turboed six. We will see how it works out. The ZR1 will be awesome regardless.

Anyone want to guess what cellis', 25psi,45psi, etc, next screen name will be?

I just ran the 'Ring. It took me just under 45 minutes. If I was wearing my Under Armour shirt and turned my hand held GPS off I might have made it in under 40. I did not use a running start either. My goal is to beat the GTR. Wish me luck.


Blah, blah, blah....let's wait to see what the ZR1 does OFFICIALLY.

No matter what the GTR runs, it can't outrun uglyness.

Painter took a lunch break while he was painting the front bumper. Your right, Can't out run ugly!:nod:

No matter what the GTR runs, it can't outrun uglyness. :owned:

it just confuses me as to what this guy does... he seriously has nothing better to do but get on a GM based board and troll.... yes your a f#$%ing troll who doesn't have a life :gtfo:

Yep...that's an accurate statement. He won't be posting under that
name again, but I'm sure old Chrissy will be back. :nod:

Im suprised he hasn't pulled a Gen. McArthur and said some comment like "I Shall Return", or "I'll Be Back" like the terminator. I guess rather than be on the nissan boards and see how mortal the GTR is, he rather be on here telling us how invincible it is and stay on cloud 9 with the rest of the fan boys.
-Joel

Yep...that's an accurate statement. He won't be posting under that
name again, but I'm sure old Chrissy will be back. :nod:

Are you guys not capable of IP bans?

Are you guys not capable of IP bans?

Yes we are. He's used hundreds of IP's.

[QUOTE=SSNISTR;9287407]I just ran the 'Ring. It took me just under 45 minutes. If I was wearing my Under Armour shirt and turned my hand held GPS off I might have made it in under 40. I did not use a running start either. My goal is to beat the GTR. Wish me luck.QUOTE]

lmao! you seen the new nikes that are out? those with under armour should net you about 15% gain in... footpower? lol. either way at least you can still beat a carolla!

if that's that same "pissy chrissy" that i keep seeing get flamed and banned for being a douche, he really just need to find something better to do, like work on whatever car he has to try and make it faster than ours. instead of trying to defend a car that he will never own, let alone be able to "pocket that 50-60 grand" pfft yea right. and i would rather buy a c6zo6 and with the 50k i saved, due to buying it used, and i will have the ultimate street machine. and i will race that imaginative gtr with my imaginative vette and win.

I agree 100%.

I am a Vette fan 'til the day I die, but your posts are always indifferent and free of fanboysim. Please, stay in this thread! :chug:

There are too many hardcore rednecks on here that will bat a blind eye to any automotive accomplishment that isn't made by GM. They'll spit and shit all over it and cry for anyone who actually defends the automotive accomplishment with actual facts (godforbid) to be banned. I am an enthusiast. I like and respect all type's of cars. I started liking turbo dsms, and then tried my hands on a v8, my last car I recently sold which was a 98 trans am. They were all a blast and made power differently and put it to the ground differently.

Whats really ironic is you can't even say s-r-t-4 on here, you have to say neon. I've never seen an import forum or a 4 banger forum where they'll block out the word camaro or SS and make it so people have to call it a chevy...but I wouldn't be surprised if mods block out the word skyline.

that is one of the lame things on the site. the ess arr tee FORE! is actually a pretty sweet little car, bang for buck wise, i mean shit, why do you think i bought my camaro. most bang for buck. if we are doing that why dont the mods make cobra always state mustang. because there is a difference? like forced induction and an entirely different motor? so it becomes what... not a shitty car. im thinking equality for all.

Give each the same tires and see what they can do. If you want a better head to head comparrison, deactivate the GTRs AWD.

Deactivate 2 cylinders in the Vette also then..........:D

There are too many hardcore rednecks on here that will bat a blind eye to any automotive accomplishment that isn't made by GM.

GM loyalists here? NAH. :eyes:

Imagine that.


They'll spit and shit all over it and cry for anyone who actually defends the automotive accomplishment with actual facts (godforbid) to be banned. I am an enthusiast. I like and respect all type's of cars. I started liking turbo dsms, and then tried my hands on a v8, my last car I recently sold which was a 98 trans am. They were all a blast and made power differently and put it to the ground differently.

Facts are one thing...you don't get banned for posting facts. The person in this case who has been banned repeatedly rarely posts facts of any kind. He's good at opinions, and biased "support" for them...but facts have not been his forte.

The majority of the population of this site, me included, have nothing but respect for all makes of performance vehicle. Hell you'll see many of us defending these other makes from the blinded GM loyalists. However, again, in this case, the blinded loyalist came from outside the GM family.

Whats really ironic is you can't even say s-r-t-4 on here, you have to say neon. I've never seen an import forum or a 4 banger forum where they'll block out the word camaro or SS and make it so people have to call it a chevy...but I wouldn't be surprised if mods block out the word skyline.

There's nothing ironic about not being able to say the name of the Turbo Neon on here. Do you even know where that edit came from? Maybe you should understand the WHY before you complain about the HOW. Results such as this one don't come from the population of this forum disliking the vehicle in question...they come from the blinded-fanbois that overspread the forum dumping metric tons of bullshit upon us.

So I had a little quasi epiphany last night discussing the ZR1.

I actually advocated for the GTR V-Spec.

Truthfully, I advocated for both the ZR1 AND GTR V-Spec >> 99.999999% of other things.

Both are going to be very unique cars, and both clearly possess technical prowess beyond anything thought possible (i.e. blowing away a Carrera GT with such phenomenal margin, superceding most hyper cars performance, yatta yatta). I purposely am ignoring the arguments of "Carrera GT or xyz is the rawest etc or what not" for a few reasons however.

GM loyalists here? NAH. :eyes:

Imagine that.




Facts are one thing...you don't get banned for posting facts. The person in this case who has been banned repeatedly rarely posts facts of any kind. He's good at opinions, and biased "support" for them...but facts have not been his forte.

The majority of the population of this site, me included, have nothing but respect for all makes of performance vehicle. Hell you'll see many of us defending these other makes from the blinded GM loyalists. However, again, in this case, the blinded loyalist came from outside the GM family.



There's nothing ironic about not being able to say the name of the Turbo Neon on here. Do you even know where that edit came from? Maybe you should understand the WHY before you complain about the HOW. Results such as this one don't come from the population of this forum disliking the vehicle in question...they come from the blinded-fanbois that overspread the forum dumping metric tons of bullshit upon us.


:stupid:

werd

I think both cars are awesome. Personally I would rather have a ZR1 than a GTR, but if some one gave me a GTR, i wouldn't turn it down.

I wouldn't turn it down either, i'd give it a nice run then toss it on ebay for 100K just so i can get myself a ZR1. I agree with you guys that there are alot of us with GM bias, but then again many of us just say it to piss off the fan boys that continue to register even when they are constantly banned over and over. Im not a huge fan of the car, and i have never been. Never been a huge fan of AWD, i'll take a real manual transmission over paddle shifters any day, horsepower is pretty nice, love the drivers information thing, and think the interior is pretty ugly for being Nissans HALO car. And my SIG says it all...
-Joel

i think both manufactures should bring the cars off the showroom floor have them checked out by a tech disclose any mods or variations if any from a production model and then run back to back record the whole event and settle it

Who cares if we have GM bias. We don't have to "respect" or "give props to" any other fast car. If the Japs have a fast car, good for them. I could care less.

Anyone want to guess what cellis', 25psi,45psi, etc, next screen name will be?

How about; sellusouttojapan or pimpforjapan.
Not working for ya?
OK, try; kamikazeboiee, zero (as in the WW2 Mitsushitsu fighter plane) psi
Or one I'll have to give Tony (Nine Ball) credit for coming up with; geeterfanboi :lol:

Regardless of what numbers either car puts down and it which way they do it, they are both great feats of engineering, same as the Veyron was when it came out.
I think we'd all like to see them run one after the other with the same driver yadadada but that won't happen. I think GM hit the Nail on the head with the ZR-1 and then Nissan will or has answered right back with the V-spec and then I would like to assume that Porsche will answer back and reclaim the title.
Basically whoever goes fastest on a certain day is impressive but props to both companies for making fantastic cars.

HELL YEAH!!! I cannot wait for this thing to smack down...

However to not activate the GTR's AWD...run what the factory brung.

W

Deactivate 2 cylinders in the Vette also then..........:D


Hmmm...

Yeah and lets deactivate the zr1's 2 extra cylinders while we're at it

Please don't start this type of game again...

Sorry, someone beat you to it WAY back in page one. :D

Who cares if we have GM bias. We don't have to "respect" or "give props to" any other fast car. If the Japs have a fast car, good for them. I could care less.

No one said you have to do anything...

Just like the car enthusiasts who are not fanboys don't have to hate the car like the GM redneck club.


In fact, since none of us don't have to do anything, it should be obvious we are by choice discussing the car that is the Vette's main rival as of late... Very relevant stuff, you know... It's not like the GTR is off topic.

So forgive us if some of us, whether we like the car or not, don't mind what you call "giving props" but I call it being an informed enthusiast with an appreciation for fast cars.

And bias is not bad, for the cars we love I agree, that is until you start making retarded arguments like the two cylinders one above... But no, bias is not bad who cares?

No one said you have to do anything...

So forgive us if some of us, whether we like the car or not, don't mind what you call "giving props" but I call it being an informed enthusiast with an appreciation for fast cars.


:thumb:
Couldn't agree more!

No one said you have to do anything...

Just like the car enthusiasts who are not fanboys don't have to hate the car like the GM redneck club.


In fact, since none of us don't have to do anything, it should be obvious we are by choice discussing the car that is the Vette's main rival as of late... Very relevant stuff, you know... It's not like the GTR is off topic.

So forgive us if some of us, whether we like the car or not, don't mind what you call "giving props" but I call it being an informed enthusiast with an appreciation for fast cars.

And bias is not bad, for the cars we love I agree, that is until you start making retarded arguments like the two cylinders one above... But no, bias is not bad who cares?

I couldn't agree more.....

PS
To Bboyferal: Foxhound rules!!!!:secret2:

TJ

Who cares if we have GM bias. We don't have to "respect" or "give props to" any other fast car. If the Japs have a fast car, good for them. I could care less.

It doesn't mean everyone has to agree with your bias, #1, and #2, it doesn't mean you guys have to cry on every thread that mentions something beside's GM. Just don't click the thread, move on, grow up, realize that there are other performance cars out there beside's GM models that have been tried and pruven, some even being a better bang for the buck depending on your goals. Come on you have to admit, wouldn't it be boring if there were no other different performance cars out there beside's GM cars.

Most of the people on here that disagree with you guys own or have owned GM cars and/or other muscle cars. This section is automotive news/meida & press, it's not a specific section like the new camaro, or the new possible firebird, there's already sections for that, if that's all you care about stick to those sections, leave the general automotive talk to those who are interested. Like I said before, tough concept I know.

:bang:This isn't documented by the ring officials. The runs aren't even timed by the officials. "Test lapping" is done and timed completely by the individuals using the track at the time...an official checks the car to make sure it complies with track rules (which is kinda pointless for a street car so there really isn't alot of attention paid there), they are issued a pit area for equipment staging, and that's it. Test drivers are able to use any section of track that is cleared for use that day.

Not even sanctioned events are timed by track officials. The governing body oversees all event officiating.

I hope you understand that it is not speculation, but common knowledge that the GT-R acheived it's times with a rolling start...

http://www.dpccars.com/car-videos/10-26-07page-Nissan-GT-R-runs-the-Nurburgring.htm

This is not uncommon practice, a good chunk of the cars on the "official" list used the same procedures in their runs...some did not. Shows how great of a gauge this new found ring frenzy really is when it comes to performance. :eyes:



The GT-R took six months of on and off-track testing, specially engineered tires, AWD, and every trick in the book to run a 7:29 just a few weeks ago. It's first run on the ring was 8:14. Well the ZR1 just showed up last week and it's first run was a 7:42.

Do a little interpolation there and go cry about what you learn.

LMAO

Fucking brutal dude!

Yeah...I'm about to stop giving new GTR lovers the benefit of the doubt at this point...how many times have I been burned by this motherf#cker?

Give each the same tires and see what they can do. If you want a better head to head comparrison, deactivate the GTRs AWD.

HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

ZR1 won't be able to beat the GTR and why don't you make some more ricerboy excuses. Ohh let's deactivate the GTR's awd. Hahahahhahahahha


Who cares if we have GM bias. We don't have to "respect" or "give props to" any other fast car. If the Japs have a fast car, good for them. I could care less.


That's fine. That goes the same for the non GM fanboi's. Why would we give props to a POS chevrolet that can't beat a 70K dollar Nissan around the track?

:lol: Ok then, GTR can keep AWD, and the ZR1 gets to keep all of it's cylinders firing. But we remove the supercharger from the ZR1 and remove the turbos from the GTR. Then we put them on the same sized tire, same gallons of gas...... :lol:
That whole fist post of mine was a bit tongue in cheek. I was playing on the posts of the other 'ring threads.
Sorry if any of you thought it was serious or argumentative.

ZR1 won't be able to beat the GTR and why don't you make some more ricerboy excuses. Ohh let's deactivate the GTR's awd. Hahahahhahahahha

OK I agree with you about how ridiculous the idea of deactivating the AWD is, but damn dude...don't you pay attention or are you really that dense?

I'll try to spell it out for those who need special attention:

- More than six months ago, when the GT-R first showed up at the Ring, it ran a respectable 8:14. Here we are now, after more than six months of rigorous testing and development, and the car has run an astounding 7:29. Awesome. That's a 45 sec improvement.

- When the ZR1 showed up at the Ring just a couple of weeks ago, it ran a 7:42. That's ALREADY 32 seconds faster than the GT-Rs first run. The GT-R improved by 45 seconds over six months. Even if the Vette only garners half as much improvement in it's time under the scope, it will be capable of at least 7:20.

Get it yet? Again, nothing against the GT-R, it's a damn impressive car, but it's just not in the same league as a car like the ZR1. Remember on top of all this, the GT-R ran these times on R-comp tires from a running start (and possibly on a shortened course). The ZR1 will work it's magic from a standstill on extremely traction limited street runflats.

HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

ZR1 won't be able to beat the GTR and why don't you make some more ricerboy excuses. Ohh let's deactivate the GTR's awd. Hahahahhahahahha





That's fine. That goes the same for the non GM fanboi's. Why would we give props to a POS chevrolet that can't beat a 70K dollar Nissan around the track?

Why should we give props to a car that requires a running start?
-Joel

OK I agree with you about how ridiculous the idea of deactivating the AWD is, but damn dude...don't you pay attention or are you really that dense?

I'll try to spell it out for those who need special attention:

- More than six months ago, when the GT-R first showed up at the Ring, it ran a respectable 8:14. Here we are now, after more than six months of rigorous testing and development, and the car has run an astounding 7:29. Awesome. That's a 45 sec improvement.

- When the ZR1 showed up at the Ring just a couple of weeks ago, it ran a 7:42. That's ALREADY 32 seconds faster than the GT-Rs first run. The GT-R improved by 45 seconds over six months. Even if the Vette only garners half as much improvement in it's time under the scope, it will be capable of at least 7:20.

Get it yet? Again, nothing against the GT-R, it's a damn impressive car, but it's just not in the same league as a car like the ZR1. Remember on top of all this, the GT-R ran these times on R-comp tires from a running start (and possibly on a shortened course). The ZR1 will work it's magic from a standstill on extremely traction limited street runflats.

Are we done with this BS yet?
Until otherwise all your doing is bench racing! This isn't about potential it's about actual. For right now if the numbers prove correct than the GTR is the King of the Ring for production cars. We all believe the ZR1 will make a good showing but enough with the "It will be capable of at least 7:20". Dude right NOW...it's a 7:42 car and THAT'S IT!
I think I as well as everyone else are very excited to see what GM will be capable of running with the ZR1 but regardless of how big a boner this car gives you it's not faster than 7:42 yet.
If this was any other car...let's say it was the Ford GT, people with GM blinders on would start ragging on how slow it's time was, saying the car sucks and it's slow and yadadada because of it's initial run. And I assure you if you go to a Ford Forum you'll find some people ragging on the ZR1 and it's initial time. Let the cards play man...Let's all watch how well it does rather than claim to know what it will do!

Thats the thing i honestly think we will never get a correct time and end this war. From what i have heard the GTR uses running starts, and GM uses what i believe is to be the correct method in the standing start. Then theres the who used what section of track, and what corner of said section was alittle damp. When i look at the specs of the GTR i honestly believe that no factory GTR will be able to run the numbers that Nissan ran. I may be incorrect in saying that, for all i know maybe the car is just that incredibly advanced. Go figure that the same time the GTR V-Spec or whatever you want to call it has been testing, the normal GTR just posted an insane number. And the numbers aren't that much further from that of the V-Spec. I think a set of rules should be made, if they haven't made them already:
1. Production car is just that production car, basically taken right off the assembly line.
2. Production car tires, whether it be run flats or racing tires. If the production model comes with it then let it be.
3. NO tuning or engine modifications should be done to the vehicle what-so-ever. Even if you want to test a theory you bring another car, or that cars times wont be recorded if messed with.
Basically im saying the car should come off the trailer, have fluids, air pressure, all the normal things checked then it should hit the track. And if possible have both cars run the track at the same time, moment one gets off the other gets on. Yes i know its never going to happen, but thats the way i see us finding out whos really King of the 'Ring.
-Joel

I think we may have to wait for topgear to get there hands on these cars.

That's fine. That goes the same for the non GM fanboi's. Why would we give props to a POS chevrolet that can't beat a 70K dollar Nissan around the track?

How did you find this out? It might just be the other way around.

Are we done with this BS yet?
Until otherwise all your doing is bench racing! This isn't about potential it's about actual. For right now if the numbers prove correct than the GTR is the King of the Ring for production cars. We all believe the ZR1 will make a good showing but enough with the "It will be capable of at least 7:20". Dude right NOW...it's a 7:42 car and THAT'S IT!
I think I as well as everyone else are very excited to see what GM will be capable of running with the ZR1 but regardless of how big a boner this car gives you it's not faster than 7:42 yet.
If this was any other car...let's say it was the Ford GT, people with GM blinders on would start ragging on how slow it's time was, saying the car sucks and it's slow and yadadada because of it's initial run. And I assure you if you go to a Ford Forum you'll find some people ragging on the ZR1 and it's initial time. Let the cards play man...Let's all watch how well it does rather than claim to know what it will do!

You are totally misunderstanding what I am saying.

The point i'm trying to get across here is that it's obvious that the ZR1 is going to be faster...I mean it's not even close. People are comparing great numbers posted after months and months of testing with the GT-R to preliminary numbers from the ZR1 and calling it a win. On top of that, they are parading around like it's the day after the super bowl.

I'm just trying to remind you folks that the ZR1 has yet to even begin to work it's magic.

As for speculation...some people like to take the facts and make an educated guess about a particular outcome. You got a problem with that? Then don't read it.

I agree, you can't judge the car from it's first time out.

The way I see it, despite the fugly front the GT-R is a pretty nice ride. The ZR1 however is freakin awesome. :headbang: Hows that for redneck!!

But seriously, the people that are crapping on the ZR1 are just mad because
they know the 'vette may come out on top and will have to put the thought into new excuses.

I agree, you can't judge the car from it's first time out.

If we had done that for the new GTR, we'd have all thought it was slower than the R32 GTR! :bang:

You are totally misunderstanding what I am saying.

The point i'm trying to get across here is that it's obvious that the ZR1 is going to be faster...I mean it's not even close. People are comparing great numbers posted after months and months of testing with the GT-R to preliminary numbers from the ZR1 and calling it a win. On top of that, they are parading around like it's the day after the super bowl.

I'm just trying to remind you folks that the ZR1 has yet to even begin to work it's magic.

As for speculation...some people like to take the facts and make an educated guess about a particular outcome. You got a problem with that? Then don't read it.

ZR1 isn't even warmed up yet!

I will give props to ANY car that does well, it just seems to me like there's some kind of "propoganda conspiracy" with Nissan's GTR.

I can remember reading somewhere (I'll try to find it EDIT FOUND IT) that the GTR was trapping 140+ in the quarter and it will soon hit the streets of America to dominate the world...or something to that effect.:eyes: I remember thinking "Who the hell is gonna believe this crap?!" and now we know its quater mile trap speed is nearly identical (116.5 mph), to a stock 430 horse LS3 Covette!

We know that it can beat a stock Z06 on a road course by a few seconds, if the GTR has good tires and the Z06 has run craps. If someone really likes Nissan's new flagship over a domestic pick then that's fine, it's just getting to be annoying that so much hype and twisting of facts are being postulated all over this board.

Is it me, or do most people get annoyed to find out "after the fact" that the testing of this car has allegedly been compromised (rolling starts and race compound tires that is not production equipment), with said results being touted as fact all over this information superhighway? Until I see disinterested third party tests (sans the above mentioned drag race and road race comparo in the May, 08 issue of Road and Track), I'll remain skeptical...

EDIT: This was stated in late 2007:

Here's the quote by Kazutoshi Mizuno (GT-R chief product specialist and chief engineer) in Motor Trend magazine:


"Mizuno's numbers are impressive: 3.5 seconds to 60mph (in 100-degree weather, no less), 11.7 seconds to the quarter mile at a trap speed of 149.1mph. He says the GT-R will tear up the skidpad to the tune of .99g - even on 20-inch run flats - and stop from 60mph in only 111.5 feet. Top speed is targeted at 192.6mph though it will be governed to 186mph."

No one said you have to do anything...

Just like the car enthusiasts who are not fanboys don't have to hate the car like the GM redneck club.


In fact, since none of us don't have to do anything, it should be obvious we are by choice discussing the car that is the Vette's main rival as of late... Very relevant stuff, you know... It's not like the GTR is off topic.

So forgive us if some of us, whether we like the car or not, don't mind what you call "giving props" but I call it being an informed enthusiast with an appreciation for fast cars.

And bias is not bad, for the cars we love I agree, that is until you start making retarded arguments like the two cylinders one above... But no, bias is not bad who cares?

An informed enthusiast? http://www.usuck.com/images/smiles/smiley_neutral_clap.gif

It doesn't mean everyone has to agree with your bias, #1, and #2, it doesn't mean you guys have to cry on every thread that mentions something beside's GM. Just don't click the thread, move on, grow up, realize that there are other performance cars out there beside's GM models that have been tried and pruven, some even being a better bang for the buck depending on your goals. Come on you have to admit, wouldn't it be boring if there were no other different performance cars out there beside's GM cars.

Most of the people on here that disagree with you guys own or have owned GM cars and/or other muscle cars. This section is automotive news/meida & press, it's not a specific section like the new camaro, or the new possible firebird, there's already sections for that, if that's all you care about stick to those sections, leave the general automotive talk to those who are interested. Like I said before, tough concept I know.

Your argument is weak and one-sided. I like GM products. There are other faster products. I don't care either way. You're telling me you and your other "informed enthusiasts" can discuss other vehicles, while I can't come in and express ambivalence? :eyes: This is a huge message board/discussion forum. Expect something from every viewpoint.

Your argument is weak and one-sided. I like GM products. There are other faster products. I don't care either way. You're telling me you and your other "informed enthusiasts" can discuss other vehicles, while I can't come in and express ambivalence? :eyes: This is a huge message board/discussion forum. Expect something from every viewpoint.

You can, that's what make's these threads interesting. What is annoying is reading people saying they don't wanna see threads like this here that it's driving them crazy, just don't read it, is it that hard not to point and click on a thread you don't like?

I like reading other people's viewpoints, like I said it would be boring if everyone thought the same, and there was only one fast performance car.

lets go team corvette:)

i predict 2 bans and a lock

Are we done with this BS yet?
Until otherwise all your doing is bench racing! This isn't about potential it's about actual. For right now if the numbers prove correct than the GTR is the King of the Ring for production cars. We all believe the ZR1 will make a good showing but enough with the "It will be capable of at least 7:20". Dude right NOW...it's a 7:42 car and THAT'S IT!
I think I as well as everyone else are very excited to see what GM will be capable of running with the ZR1 but regardless of how big a boner this car gives you it's not faster than 7:42 yet.
If this was any other car...let's say it was the Ford GT, people with GM blinders on would start ragging on how slow it's time was, saying the car sucks and it's slow and yadadada because of it's initial run. And I assure you if you go to a Ford Forum you'll find some people ragging on the ZR1 and it's initial time. Let the cards play man...Let's all watch how well it does rather than claim to know what it will do!

Actually as of right now there are no official numbers of what the ZR1 has run, only speculation from people on the side of the track... Just like when the GTR was testing and a spectator said it was running 7:15s...

Why would we give props to a POS chevrolet that can't beat a 70K dollar Nissan around the track?

Like the same nameplated "POS" that you supposedly had a deposit on??
Good luck with your Mitsushitsu pug family car.
I figured that's what you should be driving.

So far into the game Nissan has the upper hand, and no not because of the times supposedly run by the GTR. Its because of the V-Spec they allegedly have under development. They can easily slow down testing on that just to see what the ZR1, to then come back with full force testing to try and defeat it. Only question i don't understand is if you can lighten the GTR even more like the V-Spec, then why bring out the GTR weighing like a house?
-Joel

So far into the game Nissan has the upper hand, and no not because of the times supposedly run by the GTR. Its because of the V-Spec they allegedly have under development. They can easily slow down testing on that just to see what the ZR1, to then come back with full force testing to try and defeat it. Only question i don't understand is if you can lighten the GTR even more like the V-Spec, then why bring out the GTR weighing like a house?
-Joel

Well that's just the way of things. Yeah Nissan can hang back and wait and see what the ZR1 does, then pour more money into the V-spec just to make it faster...but do they really care THAT MUCH? That would probably put the V-spec in a different class than the ZR1 just because the price would skyrocket. Regardless, GM can come back next year with more boost and outrun it anyway. Then it's a constant cat-and-mouse game until both cars are putting out 1000hp, and costing nearly $200k.

Also, the weight reduction of the V-spec came at a high price...that's why they didn't do it for the GTR. The V-spec is going to be significantly more expensive than I think most people realize.

Honestly, I'm only interested in how well the new Porsche GT2 and the ZR1 run. They are the true sports cars...AWD isn't natural. That's were Nissan missed the ball...a sports car is about more than being fast, it's the whole experience. So far, the GTR is nothing but a tremendously fast GT, and needs to compare their times to BMW's and Mercedes AMG's instead of real sports cars.:nod:

The 350Z is a sports car, the GTR is not.

So far into the game Nissan has the upper hand, and no not because of the times supposedly run by the GTR. Its because of the V-Spec they allegedly have under development. They can easily slow down testing on that just to see what the ZR1, to then come back with full force testing to try and defeat it. Only question i don't understand is if you can lighten the GTR even more like the V-Spec, then why bring out the GTR weighing like a house?
-Joel

Same reason the first version of the I-phone came out with no ring tone abilities or other features found on most phones. That way they can resell their 2nd version to people who already bought the first.

Well that's just the way of things. Yeah Nissan can hang back and wait and see what the ZR1 does, then pour more money into the V-spec just to make it faster...but do they really care THAT MUCH? That would probably put the V-spec in a different class than the ZR1 just because the price would skyrocket. Regardless, GM can come back next year with more boost and outrun it anyway. Then it's a constant cat-and-mouse game until both cars are putting out 1000hp, and costing nearly $200k.

Also, the weight reduction of the V-spec came at a high price...that's why they didn't do it for the GTR. The V-spec is going to be significantly more expensive than I think most people realize.

I think they do care enough as shown by their initial desire to beat the 911. Anywhere they took the GTR during testing they also brought a 911 with them.

Honestly, I'm only interested in how well the new Porsche GT2 and the ZR1 run. They are the true sports cars...AWD isn't natural. That's were Nissan missed the ball...a sports car is about more than being fast, it's the whole experience.So far, the GTR is nothing but a tremendously fast GT, and needs to compare their times to BMW's and Mercedes AMG's instead of real sports cars.:nod:

The 350Z is a sports car, the GTR is not.

:jest: omg :nono:

Here's the quote by Kazutoshi Mizuno (GT-R chief product specialist and chief engineer) in Motor Trend magazine:

"Mizuno's numbers are impressive: 3.5 seconds to 60mph (in 100-degree weather, no less), 11.7 seconds to the quarter mile at a trap speed of 149.1mph.

Not to try and join in the GTR bash-fest, that really isnt my idea. But does a 149.1mph trap speed seem high for an 11.7 quarter? I've never been into the elevens myself, but it seems from reading times of other people on this forum, that people in the high 11's usually trap low 12X mph. I can see a higher trap speed than 120s, but 20 mph higher? Doesn't seem plausible. To me at least.

Same reason the first version of the I-phone came out with no ring tone abilities or other features found on most phones. That way they can resell their 2nd version to people who already bought the first.



I think they do care enough as shown by their initial desire to beat the 911. Anywhere they took the GTR during testing they also brought a 911 with them.



:jest: omg :nono:

Oh! :nod::nod::D

Oh, what the f5ck ever, dude. You wouldn't know what being a sports car constitutes if it walked up, took advantage of you, then put the video on the internet.

Get over yourself.

How many legendary sports cars had AWD, two usable rear seats, and a semi-auto transmission?

How many legendary sports cars had RWD, a manual transmission, and weren't GT's?

You lose. Go cry in the corner like the import-whore you really try hard to make yourself out to be.

The GTR is no sports car, and it hardly deserves the label, just like the Skyline never earned the moniker. In fact, in Japan, they are considered "muscle cars."

Edit: Damn, I'm a little hostile at night, ay?

^ Things are going down hill quick, but i totally agree with you. Like i said before the car can almost drive its damn self, and basically where is the fun in that? With something like the Z06/ZR1 your basically one with the car, watching your every step knowing it can bite back and make you lose it. In the GTR and with all its fancy gimmicks your just along for the ride.
-Joel

Yeah, I can't wait till Spoolin' comes on here tomorrow and tells me just how much of an idiot I am for even THINKING about not calling the GTR the ultimate device of road-going pleasure-boating.

I need to stop letting these fanboys get my goat, but it's hard to do sometimes. I'm actually an old fan of Nissan's, but lately, all these manic "supporters" of the GTR have pretty much turned me off from anything new they put out...

Man, how did this one get turned into a GTR thread again? Can someone enlighten me why everything in this damn section devolves into a bitch-fest about that stupid little rice-rocket? Seriously, I don't mind news about it, but speculation and arguments are not what I come on this website to see.

Blechhh...I need some sleep already....:bang:

What did the ls7 ZO6 run at the ring?

What did the ls7 ZO6 run at the ring?

7:42 if I remember right. People can say what they want but I could see it making up the 13 seconds vs. the gtr easily with the same tires the gtr wears and a running start. Not to bash on the gtr, but more on gm, why isnt there a z06 at the ring right now for some 'testing'? Put the exact same damn tires the nissan is wearing and do a couple running starts, I'd be suprised as shit if it didnt better a 7:29.

Ultimatly the gtr is pretty cool. I dont think its anywhere near what all the hype is making it out to be, and people are going to be pretty dissapointed if they believe it when they drive off the lot. Honestly I'd put it right on par with a z06. Which, for a p.o.s. company like nissan, is a pretty big compliment.

I think the vtech... I mean vspec is going to be right on par with a zr1, price and performance. Really after all the hype dies down its going to be so close between the two it depends on what someone looking to buy- a car you can drive or a car that can drive you. Either way, if it can put a smile on their face for ~100k, so be it.

Seriously, not to repeat myself, but I think gm should start publishing two sets of times from the ring. First set from a stop with runflats, second set from a roll with some sticky tires. Just to keep the competition in check.

the front reminds me of a Nike Basketball Shoe.

http://www.autosieger.de/images/articles/nissan_GT-R_Proto_v_3.jpg

=


http://img.epinions.com/images/opti/af/e9/Nike_Air_Jordan_XI_Retro_Basketball_Shoe.jpg

Oh! :nod::nod::D

Oh, what the f5ck ever, dude. You wouldn't know what being a sports car constitutes if it walked up, took advantage of you, then put the video on the internet.

Get over yourself.

How many legendary sports cars had AWD, two usable rear seats, and a semi-auto transmission?

How many legendary sports cars had RWD, a manual transmission, and weren't GT's?

You lose. Go cry in the corner like the import-whore you really try hard to make yourself out to be.

The GTR is no sports car, and it hardly deserves the label, just like the Skyline never earned the moniker. In fact, in Japan, they are considered "muscle cars."

Edit: Damn, I'm a little hostile at night, ay?

Well, that "muscle car" outhandles all of their "sports cars."

the front reminds me of a Nike Basketball Shoe.


http://img.epinions.com/images/opti/af/e9/Nike_Air_Jordan_XI_Retro_Basketball_Shoe.jpg

I loved those Jordan's. They look WAY better than the GTR...and they
outperform it as well. :D

Oh! :nod::nod::D

Oh, what the f5ck ever, dude. You wouldn't know what being a sports car constitutes if it walked up, took advantage of you, then put the video on the internet.

Get over yourself.

How many legendary sports cars had AWD, two usable rear seats, and a semi-auto transmission?

How many legendary sports cars had RWD, a manual transmission, and weren't GT's?

You lose. Go cry in the corner like the import-whore you really try hard to make yourself out to be.

The GTR is no sports car, and it hardly deserves the label, just like the Skyline never earned the moniker. In fact, in Japan, they are considered "muscle cars."

Edit: Damn, I'm a little hostile at night, ay?


You can hate awd all you want but to say it's not a "true" sports car since it's awd, and that the 350z is more of a sports car...I didn't know you wrote the rule book as to what a true sports car is? hhmmm, isn't there an awd turbo porsche that some might say is a pretty damn good sports car, guess not, what a waste since it doesn't fit your definition of a sports car, then there's...the lambo is a toss up I'll give you that, but that new ultimate supercar, the Bugatti....oh that must be nothing, 350z must be a faster true sports car than that too, right right...maybe you should call those manufacturers and let them know to stop engineering those cars because they go against your rulebook, idk what those top scientists and engineers where thinking, they should of called you first for your advice...

You can hate awd all you want but to say it's not a "true" sports car since it's awd, and that the 350z is more of a sports car...I didn't know you wrote the rule book as to what a true sports car is? hhmmm, isn't there an awd turbo porsche that some might say is a pretty damn good sports car, guess not, what a waste since it doesn't fit your definition of a sports car, then there's...the lambo is a toss up I'll give you that, but that new ultimate supercar, the Bugatti....oh that must be nothing, 350z must be a faster true sports car than that too, right right...maybe you should call those manufacturers and let them know to stop engineering those cars because they go against your rulebook, idk what those top scientists and engineers where thinking, they should of called you first for your advice...

Well all the hard core performance versions of most of those cars are RWD.

There is a reason RWD is better then AWD, hell there is a few. :D

Well all the hard core performance versions of most of those cars are RWD.

There is a reason RWD is better then AWD, hell there is a few. :D

That's fine, I'm not saying awd is better, like I said he can complain all he wants about awd, but to cry and moan about awd not being a true sports car, apparently an awd 911 turbo isn't a true sports car...go figure...and then to try and say spoolin is the one crying...eh idk why i bother...



Personally, I'm a fan of Reebok...and newb's (newbalance, aaawww snap I'm such a ricer!)

I loved those Jordan's. They look WAY better than the GTR...and they
outperform it as well. :D

Ditto :jest::jest::jest:

You can hate awd all you want but to say it's not a "true" sports car since it's awd, and that the 350z is more of a sports car...I didn't know you wrote the rule book as to what a true sports car is? hhmmm, isn't there an awd turbo porsche that some might say is a pretty damn good sports car, guess not, what a waste since it doesn't fit your definition of a sports car, then there's...the lambo is a toss up I'll give you that, but that new ultimate supercar, the Bugatti....oh that must be nothing, 350z must be a faster true sports car than that too, right right...maybe you should call those manufacturers and let them know to stop engineering those cars because they go against your rulebook, idk what those top scientists and engineers where thinking, they should of called you first for your advice...

Yeah but if your going to buy a Porsche to be fast at a track i'd put my money on the Porsche 997 GT3 RS, and that comes RWD :D. When all these magazines test cars they don't just take lap times into their final decision, they also take in how much fun the car is to drive. I still can't see whats going to make the GTR so much better than the Z06. Everyone is giving this car records and praise when any of us have yet to see one, and drive one for that matter. This car is getting over-hyped because of what the GTR name was not what it is. GTR was the R32-R33-R34, this car has yet to prove that it deserves the GTR name. What just because it supposedly ran this great time in "factory" trim, and comes AWD it should be crowned the best GTR ever? Same thing when the Z06 went from C5 to C6, we all praised it because it stuck to the same dimensions as the previous model. It got more power, got lighter, and made the previous Z look like it belonged to amateurs. The GTR has stuck to the same dimensions as the previous model, but it has yet to prove itself to the world. And no i wont trust nissans way of running tests.
-Joel

Yeah but if your going to buy a Porsche to be fast at a track i'd put my money on the Porsche 997 GT3 RS, and that comes RWD :D. When all these magazines test cars they don't just take lap times into their final decision, they also take in how much fun the car is to drive. I still can't see whats going to make the GTR so much better than the Z06. Everyone is giving this car records and praise when any of us have yet to see one, and drive one for that matter. This car is getting over-hyped because of what the GTR name was not what it is. GTR was the R32-R33-R34, this car has yet to prove that it deserves the GTR name. What just because it supposedly ran this great time in "factory" trim, and comes AWD it should be crowned the best GTR ever? Same thing when the Z06 went from C5 to C6, we all praised it because it stuck to the same dimensions as the previous model. It got more power, got lighter, and made the previous Z look like it belonged to amateurs. The GTR has stuck to the same dimensions as the previous model, but it has yet to prove itself to the world. And no i wont trust nissans way of running tests.
-Joel

I don't disagree with most of what your saying, I like rwd cars more than awd...well ok I'm lieing, lol. I enjoyed my dsm more than my trans am, I liked going sideways off the launch with the dsm more so than spinning sideways not going anywhere, but that was driver error. In any case, I agree with you that rwd is better than awd in most cases, but that doesn't mean the awd isn't a "true sports car." And I like the older skyline's more too, I don't like how they've locked the computer on this skyline down, what made the older skyline so great imo, not just the awd system and how it would put most of the power to the rear wheels to get that perfect launch, and would adjust accordingly, but also that the older skyline's responded extremely well to mods, and their stock internals could handle a lot of power. This new skyline seems to be so locked down with it's ecu that who knows what it can handle, it's just another expensive supercar to me until someone cracks the ecu and can really start modding it to see what potential it has.


And the irony is even though I've been defending the skyline, I'd take a zr1 over it anyday, are you kidding me...lol. I'd take a z06 over it too if I had to choose between the 2 because I think it's priced too high, just personal preference though.

I don't disagree with most of what your saying, I like rwd cars more than awd...well ok I'm lieing, lol. I enjoyed my dsm more than my trans am, I liked going sideways off the launch with the dsm more so than spinning sideways not going anywhere, but that was driver error. In any case, I agree with you that rwd is better than awd in most cases, but that doesn't mean the awd isn't a "true sports car." And I like the older skyline's more too, I don't like how they've locked the computer on this skyline down, what made the older skyline so great imo, not just the awd system and how it would put most of the power to the rear wheels to get that perfect launch, and would adjust accordingly, but also that the older skyline's responded extremely well to mods, and their stock internals could handle a lot of power. This new skyline seems to be so locked down with it's ecu that who knows what it can handle, it's just another expensive supercar to me until someone cracks the ecu and can really start modding it to see what potential it has.


And the irony is even though I've been defending the skyline, I'd take a zr1 over it anyday, are you kidding me...lol. I'd take a z06 over it too if I had to choose between the 2 because I think it's priced too high, just personal preference though.

Look, I'm not saying AWD sucks, just that it doesn't really need to be on a true sports car, which the GTR isn't in many categories. Does having great handling and acceleration make the Lancer Evo a true sports car? Hell no. It's a rally homologation special, and will never be anything but that. I'm not saying that car is bad or slow, just that it isn't a sports car.

A sports car is more than just being fast, it's the experience of the drive. A sports car should stimulate the driver, make them strive for more, and be fully willing to let the driver kill themselves in the process. A sports car should draw stares and instantly spark passersby's curiosity. A sports car should look SEXY in bright, Lisa Frank color schemes. A sports car must PROVE itself before it gets the title. The Corvette didn't deserve the title until it got a V8 in the fifties.

Are my definitions of what a sports car should be ludicrous? Hell yes they are, but so are sports cars. Who wants a safe Viper? It would never have been as big as it was if it weren't for the combination of outrageous qualities it had. Sometimes, you have to live on the edge, and if that isn't your game, then buy a Volvo instead of that 993 Porsche Turbo. We won't fault you for it, but we do want you to recognize that bright green paint means don't ruin my fun by getting in the way.:D

I'd like to see a GTR try and pull this one off...
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/9431/limer8tn.jpg

Or this one...
http://www.sportbilen.se/bilder/bilder/350zgt410241.jpg

A sports car should stimulate the driver, make them strive for more, and be fully willing to let the driver kill themselves in the process.

Holy Crap! I can drink to that :chug: Probably the greatest definition i have ever heard!
-Joel

Look, I'm not saying AWD sucks, just that it doesn't really need to be on a true sports car, which the GTR isn't in many categories. Does having great handling and acceleration make the Lancer Evo a true sports car? Hell no. It's a rally homologation special, and will never be anything but that. I'm not saying that car is bad or slow, just that it isn't a sports car.

A sports car is more than just being fast, it's the experience of the drive. A sports car should stimulate the driver, make them strive for more, and be fully willing to let the driver kill themselves in the process. A sports car should draw stares and instantly spark passersby's curiosity. A sports car should look SEXY in bright, Lisa Frank color schemes. A sports car must PROVE itself before it gets the title. The Corvette didn't deserve the title until it got a V8 in the fifties.

Are my definitions of what a sports car should be ludicrous? Hell yes they are, but so are sports cars. Who wants a safe Viper? It would never have been as big as it was if it weren't for the combination of outrageous qualities it had. Sometimes, you have to live on the edge, and if that isn't your game, then buy a Volvo instead of that 993 Porsche Turbo. We won't fault you for it, but we do want you to recognize that bright green paint means don't ruin my fun by getting in the way.:D

Listen no offense but who are you to be the judge of what a true sports car is, and what car give's you the better driving experience. You have too much of a bias, and it's abvious. People love the experience of the evo, it does very well at the track and I remember how impressed people where with the vq400 that beat the lambo. And how can you say the skyline isn't a true sports car, it was built and tuned precisely for that, being a sportscar, who are you to take that away from it (don't mean to spaz out I just don't get where your coming from with this)? You may not like it, you may not like 4 door cars, you may not like nissans, or awd, w/e, but you can't say as if it's fact that the skyline isn't a sports car, that's outrageous. It is a true sports car, it was tuned to be a true sports car, they brought it to the ring to be a true sports car, sports tuned suspension, etc, they gave it the turbo's to be a true sports car, and 400-500hp, what do you think that was for??


The skyline was built to be a sportscar, most supercars are built to be sports cars right? This car is under 100k, so idk if it's supercar territory although it give's em a run for their money, but what in the world do you think it was built for if not to be a sports car? Let me guess, your gonna say for ricers and fanboyzz right?

Also don't think just cause it's awd you can't kill yourself in the process. Awd means it's heavier anyway so you can think of it as being harder to control in that sense that it's heavier. Awd doesn't do the driving for you, people have flown off the track with awd just the same, but each sports car wants to give you the best handling you can get, that's what they're going for if it's used for the track, I don't get why that's a downside? You might as well talk down on suspension work too while your at it because that helps stop people from killing themselve's in the process too, unless you're just being picky...

Im not a fan of calling a 2+2 a sports car, but then again there have been bad ass 2+2s in history that fall under the sports car name. But calling something with 4 doors a sports car is f*cking pushing it.
-Joel

Im not a fan of calling a 2+2 a sports car, but then again there have been bad ass 2+2s in history that fall under the sports car name. But calling something with 4 doors a sports car is f*cking pushing it.
-Joel

I try not to judge whether a car is a sports car by the number of doors it has (aspecially these days). The evo has been tried and pruven, it's a sports car as much as any imo. May not be a liking to everyone's style, but everything else is there imo. The power, performance, handling, it compete's with the best of em. And they respond very well to mods. Like I said, the styling may not be there for everyone (although I really like the new evo x's compared to the evo 8's, never was too much of a fan of the evo 8's style, i was impressed with it's performance though) but it's formidable on the streets, the way it gets the power to the ground not everyone appreciate's but it gets the job done and that's what counts.

I would take a trans am over an evo, I actually already did, but ironically I would take an older 1g dsm over a trans am, now that I've experienced both. I like the feel of the turbo more than the linear powercurve of the v8 I guess, personal preference though.

Yeah the Evo X is fucking ugly as hell, i was never a fan of the IX but i would take that any day over the X. And you can't really call a car a sports car just by its performance, that would be like calling an M5 or E55 a sports car. They obviously aren't, thats because they are sports sedans. Either way back on topic, to think the ZR1 isn't going to be faster than any GTR is just retarded. That thing is going to put cars to shame, and its going to do it quickly. If the Nissan and the GTR want to be taken seriously tell them to try getting legit times from a standing start. If not then they can shove their times up their ass.
-Joel

Yeah the Evo X is fucking ugly as hell, i was never a fan of the IX but i would take that any day over the X. And you can't really call a car a sports car just by its performance, that would be like calling an M5 or E55 a sports car. They obviously aren't, thats because they are sports sedans. Either way back on topic, to think the ZR1 isn't going to be faster than any GTR is just retarded. That thing is going to put cars to shame, and its going to do it quickly. If the Nissan and the GTR want to be taken seriously tell them to try getting legit times from a standing start. If not then they can shove their times up their ass.
-Joel

The M3 is a sports car imo.

This is a pic I took of a girl I know who recently purchased an evo x.

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j78/BoyBeaterTsi/evox1.jpg

I think it looks sick but to each there own I guess.


I'm surprised the zr1 is even considered to be in the same class as the skyline. I think it's a whole different animal entirely.

Yeah, I can't wait till Spoolin' comes on here tomorrow and tells me just how much of an idiot I am for even THINKING about not calling the GTR the ultimate device of road-going pleasure-boating.

I need to stop letting these fanboys get my goat, but it's hard to do sometimes. I'm actually an old fan of Nissan's, but lately, all these manic "supporters" of the GTR have pretty much turned me off from anything new they put out...

Man, how did this one get turned into a GTR thread again? Can someone enlighten me why everything in this damn section devolves into a bitch-fest about that stupid little rice-rocket? Seriously, I don't mind news about it, but speculation and arguments are not what I come on this website to see.

Blechhh...I need some sleep already....:bang:

Umm... your are the idiot you proclaimed your self to be. However from my previous encounter with your intellect I don't think I'll bother. If I remember you correctly you regurgitate things you hear from other people and state them as facts and don't do any of your own research...I'm sure your a great guy in person but listening to your "Facts" make my head hurt. I hope your doing well in school though, best of luck!

Well, that "muscle car" outhandles all of their "sports cars."

My Muscle Car outhandles most of those cars too, but I don't call it a Sports Car.

A "Sports Car" is a has two seats and RWD. Period. The Camaro and Firebird and GTO are muscle cars, the M3 is a Grand Tourer.

Umm... your are the idiot you proclaimed your self to be. However from my previous encounter with your intellect I don't think I'll bother. If I remember you correctly you regurgitate things you hear from other people and state them as facts and don't do any of your own research...I'm sure your a great guy in person but listening to your "Facts" make my head hurt. I hope your doing well in school though, best of luck!

You need to get one thing straight...before you can talk about "intellect" you need to prove that you know the meaning of the word. In this thread, so far, you have not.



The GT-R and ZR1 are not in the same class as i've said all along. Not even in the same ballpark. The ZR1 is out there to compete with Vipers, Porsches, Ferraris, Lambos, and all the other niche-market custom two-seaters. The GT-R should be competing with the new Camaro, Challenger and Mustang. An identity dilemma is created with this car because it is phenomenally more expensive than it's rivals. The people who really want a GT-R are in the Camaro/Challenger/Mustang target demo...they can't afford it. The people who can afford it are looking at Vettes, Vipers, Porsches and the like...Nissan is not a nameplate they will consider. Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but it's not going to sell like a Vette, Viper or Porsche, and thus will likely go the way of the SSR, (newer) Thunderbird, and Prowler.

I have said that since the day they announced the price bracket of this car. FAIL. Same thing that happened with the 300ZX and Supra. Priced out of (what should have been) the target demographic. Supras are selling great used, because they are now within reach of the people who really want them. Same thing will happen with this car.

My Muscle Car outhandles most of those cars too, but I don't call it a Sports Car.

A "Sports Car" is a has two seats and RWD. Period. The Camaro and Firebird and GTO are muscle cars, the M3 is a Grand Tourer.




In know that. I just thought it would be funny to point out that their heavy "muscle car" outperforms all of their lighter sports cars and GT's, especially their self-acclaimed NSX that really didn't go anywhere competitively like this car will... We, in America, by our "muscle car" standards, obviously wouldn't call the GT-R a muscle car but a GT... Like its namesake suggests.

God that Evo X is hideous. IX was the pinnacle of an attractive rally car.

Oh I forgot about all those other sports car name's inbetween like GT and all that good stuff...man you guy's really are picky... :engarde:

Its not about being picky, its about stating the right facts. And to me the NSX had the look of a sports car, even though it was overpriced as well. But i thought the look of it was amazing, the flip up light model. I never really liked the fixed headlight look that they got.
-Joel

I think the ZR1 will do it as-is...geez on the first lap it ran when it got there it ran a 7:40, only 2 secs behind the GT-R first hard-wrought time. I say they should wring out the best time they can get from the ZR1 on run-flats and from a standing start...I bet it's better than 7:29. Then after they do that, throw on the R-comps and hit the line running and see what the Z can do on GTR terms.

This isn't documented by the ring officials. The runs aren't even timed by the officials. "Test lapping" is done and timed completely by the individuals using the track at the time...an official checks the car to make sure it complies with track rules (which is kinda pointless for a street car so there really isn't alot of attention paid there), they are issued a pit area for equipment staging, and that's it. Test drivers are able to use any section of track that is cleared for use that day.

Not even sanctioned events are timed by track officials. The governing body oversees all event officiating.

I hope you understand that it is not speculation, but common knowledge that the GT-R acheived it's times with a rolling start...

http://www.dpccars.com/car-videos/10-26-07page-Nissan-GT-R-runs-the-Nurburgring.htm

This is not uncommon practice, a good chunk of the cars on the "official" list used the same procedures in their runs...some did not. Shows how great of a gauge this new found ring frenzy really is when it comes to performance. :eyes:



The GT-R took six months of on and off-track testing, specially engineered tires, AWD, and every trick in the book to run a 7:29 just a few weeks ago. It's first run on the ring was 8:14. Well the ZR1 just showed up last week and it's first run was a 7:42.

Do a little interpolation there and go cry about what you learn.

OK I agree with you about how ridiculous the idea of deactivating the AWD is, but damn dude...don't you pay attention or are you really that dense?

I'll try to spell it out for those who need special attention:

- More than six months ago, when the GT-R first showed up at the Ring, it ran a respectable 8:14. Here we are now, after more than six months of rigorous testing and development, and the car has run an astounding 7:29. Awesome. That's a 45 sec improvement.

- When the ZR1 showed up at the Ring just a couple of weeks ago, it ran a 7:42. That's ALREADY 32 seconds faster than the GT-Rs first run. The GT-R improved by 45 seconds over six months. Even if the Vette only garners half as much improvement in it's time under the scope, it will be capable of at least 7:20.

Get it yet? Again, nothing against the GT-R, it's a damn impressive car, but it's just not in the same league as a car like the ZR1. Remember on top of all this, the GT-R ran these times on R-comp tires from a running start (and possibly on a shortened course). The ZR1 will work it's magic from a standstill on extremely traction limited street runflats.

You are totally misunderstanding what I am saying.

The point i'm trying to get across here is that it's obvious that the ZR1 is going to be faster...I mean it's not even close. People are comparing great numbers posted after months and months of testing with the GT-R to preliminary numbers from the ZR1 and calling it a win. On top of that, they are parading around like it's the day after the super bowl.

I'm just trying to remind you folks that the ZR1 has yet to even begin to work it's magic.

As for speculation...some people like to take the facts and make an educated guess about a particular outcome. You got a problem with that? Then don't read it.

Well that's just the way of things. Yeah Nissan can hang back and wait and see what the ZR1 does, then pour more money into the V-spec just to make it faster...but do they really care THAT MUCH? That would probably put the V-spec in a different class than the ZR1 just because the price would skyrocket. Regardless, GM can come back next year with more boost and outrun it anyway. Then it's a constant cat-and-mouse game until both cars are putting out 1000hp, and costing nearly $200k.

Also, the weight reduction of the V-spec came at a high price...that's why they didn't do it for the GTR. The V-spec is going to be significantly more expensive than I think most people realize.

My Muscle Car outhandles most of those cars too, but I don't call it a Sports Car.

A "Sports Car" is a has two seats and RWD. Period. The Camaro and Firebird and GTO are muscle cars, the M3 is a Grand Tourer.



You need to get one thing straight...before you can talk about "intellect" you need to prove that you know the meaning of the word. In this thread, so far, you have not.



The GT-R and ZR1 are not in the same class as i've said all along. Not even in the same ballpark. The ZR1 is out there to compete with Vipers, Porsches, Ferraris, Lambos, and all the other niche-market custom two-seaters. The GT-R should be competing with the new Camaro, Challenger and Mustang. An identity dilemma is created with this car because it is phenomenally more expensive than it's rivals. The people who really want a GT-R are in the Camaro/Challenger/Mustang target demo...they can't afford it. The people who can afford it are looking at Vettes, Vipers, Porsches and the like...Nissan is not a nameplate they will consider. Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but it's not going to sell like a Vette, Viper or Porsche, and thus will likely go the way of the SSR, (newer) Thunderbird, and Prowler.

I have said that since the day they announced the price bracket of this car. FAIL. Same thing that happened with the 300ZX and Supra. Priced out of (what should have been) the target demographic. Supras are selling great used, because they are now within reach of the people who really want them. Same thing will happen with this car.

I'm sorry that I don't understand the word INTELLECT by your definition.
However, I quoted most everypost you've made in this thread because I want you to notice something...not once have you mentioned in this thread that the GTR and ZR1 are in a different class like you claimed you have mentioned..."all along". And if your so adamant about them being in a different class all of a sudden then why (in all the posts that I quoted from you) do you keep comparing the ZR1 with the GTR??

You even said...
...That would probably put the V-spec in a different class than the ZR1 just because the price would skyrocket.
Please bear in mind that I'm not intelligent but from that comment it would seem that you do consider the GTR and the ZR1 are in the same class since you say that the V-spec would "be put in a different class then the ZR1". Hence the GTR is by your account in the same class.

Just an observation and I'm just trying to follow along, but like you said I'm not intelligent.

Oh and the topic of this thread is "It's On - ZR1 Chief says GTR Won't be King of the Ring for Long". Excuse us if we want to compare the two since obviously GM thinks it worthy enough to compare.
Thank you...that is all! :)

I have said that since the day they announced the price bracket of this car. FAIL. Same thing that happened with the 300ZX and Supra. Priced out of (what should have been) the target demographic. Supras are selling great used, because they are now within reach of the people who really want them. Same thing will happen with this car.That's an excellent point too, people fall all over themselves just to swing from the nuts of a Toyota Supra MkIV (hell, it could be just a slow ass, non turbo automatic but the Playstation fanboy generation will still soil their trousers over it LOL ;)) and in turbo form was a great platform with amazing potential but what few people realize is that the car was a complete and total sales FAILURE.
They're only selling for irrationally high prices and are considered by some to be somewhat rare today for that reason alone.
If Toyota could've found 35k buyers per year for that car they would've but it (along with the 300ZX, RX7, 3000GT etc.) just did not sell.

I don't think GM was comparing the ZR1 to the GTR, i think it was more of a slap in the face telling them to wake up. Basically in saying that no matter what they ran to not be so happy for long, because they intend on taking the King of the Ring throne and holding on to it.
-Joel

I'm sorry that I don't understand the word INTELLECT by your definition.

That, my friend, is abundantly clear. I don't know if you would recognize intellect in ANY definition if it ran head on into you.

And now i'll show you why I said that...

However, I quoted most everypost you've made in this thread because I want you to notice something...not once have you mentioned in this thread that the GTR and ZR1 are in a different class like you claimed you have mentioned..."all along". And if your so adamant about them being in a different class all of a sudden then why (in all the posts that I quoted from you) do you keep comparing the ZR1 with the GTR??

Above is where you prove that not once in the past have you ever paid attention to anything i've said in this section of the forum...and believe me, i've said alot.

I'M only comparing the ZR1 to the GT-R because EVERYONE ELSE IS. To make my points, that is necessary.

Again, a studied individual would easily recognize such a basic element of debate.

Same thing here...

Please bear in mind that I'm not intelligent but from that comment it would seem that you do consider the GTR and the ZR1 are in the same class since you say that the V-spec would "be put in a different class then the ZR1". Hence the GTR is by your account in the same class.

For those in the thread who have a basic understanding of what is actually being discussed here, a thought like this would never enter their mind. There is nothing in that comment that is "by my account". It is only a commentary on what others, and Nissan, have said.

Oh and the topic of this thread is "It's On - ZR1 Chief says GTR Won't be King of the Ring for Long". Excuse us if we want to compare the two since obviously GM thinks it worthy enough to compare.
Thank you...that is all! :)

Comparable in speed and handling does not mean "comparable" by class standards. For instance...my car is every bit as fast and handles just as well as some very high priced cars...Porsches, Ferraris...etc (before you start challenging my car, let me note that I mean SOME Porsches and Ferraris...not ALL), however I would never even think of truly comparing it to those cars. Different class. While I would challenge them on a track, as GM has done with the ZR1 against the GT-R, i would never challenge them as a car in general.

But hey, I have to hand it to you, you are one of the few who knows where they stand, as you have so eloquently put it. :bored:

Actually I like your car! I wish I had a lingenfelter anything! I'd settle for a sticker! :jest:

Actually I like your car! I wish I had a lingenfelter anything! I'd settle for a sticker! :jest:

Thanks man, I appreciate the compliment.

Your truck ain't so bad though...600hp+ has got to be a hell of a good time...especially when some unsuspecting punk pulls up in a riced out POS and tries to race you thinking "I can take a truck". You should start a wall of pictures called "the look on his face".

The GTR is an impressive performer but thats the only thing it has going for it.
They completely missed the mark in styling, it sounds like ass and has absolutely nothing cool going for it.

I would rather have one ZR1 Vs two GTR's anyday.

Well thats the thing to us its not very exciting, to the fanboys and import lovers is the biggest thing ever since they brought over the mitsubishi evolutions. I agree i think its fuck-ugly, interior isn't that exciting, and think the car looks like a beefed up 350Z. Cool factor i would think would have to be the drivers information center, which it looks like it gives you alot of good info. And thats it on my part, yeah a highly advanced AWD system and semi-auto transmission. Automotive wise its pretty crazy and the advancement on it is as high as the hype over the car. But all that technology i think hurts it more than anything, even though it makes the car very driver friendly. But for being driver friendly, it also i think makes the car rather boring since now everyone and their mother that drives it will look like they can take a Formula 1 car for a spin.
-Joel

Thanks man, I appreciate the compliment.

Your truck ain't so bad though...600hp+ has got to be a hell of a good time...especially when some unsuspecting punk pulls up in a riced out POS and tries to race you thinking "I can take a truck". You should start a wall of pictures called "the look on his face".

Well, considering Spoolin has a 650 RWHP truck he's probably a pretty dedicated GM enthusiast. I notice he plays the Devils Advocate on a lot of issues. Kind of annoying but not a bad thing.

Well, considering Spoolin has a 650 RWHP truck he's probably a pretty dedicated GM enthusiast. I notice he plays the Devils Advocate on a lot of issues. Kind of annoying but not a bad thing.True and that is somewhat discomforting to me as well. It's one thing to be butting heads :punch: with a Toyota/Honda/Nissan driver but when it's one of your own :usa: so to speak it kind of hurts.
Yes when a fellow GM owner/driver is able to question that very same corporation it might show that they are being truly unbiased in that they can have an honest debate or viewpoint that might oppose the very product that they are driving. But if they're SO passionate about their opinions about GM (or Ford etc.) it also makes you wonder why they're even driving such a vehicle in the first place.:huh:
It's sort of akin to being married to a woman that you can't stand and constantly bashing/ridiculing her while STILL remaining married to her. :lol: ;)

Owning a Ferrari doesn't make you a Ferrari fan by default...

Owning a Ferrari doesn't make you a Ferrari fan by default...True.
But wouldn't happily owning a Ferrari and then blasting/ridiculing/bashing Ferrari as a whole come off as maybe just a little twisted?
We live in a world where it is quite common to work at a job that we may not like and we even make our disgust for said job known once in a while. But a job is often considered a necessity for survival, a car is not.

Just seems odd to me that one would drive a GM vehicle when they don't like GM or GM's products. :confused:
I guess that seems perfectly normal to everyone else LOL.

Hey, I actually despise nearly every single GM vehicle out right now, but I am a HUGE Corvette fan. :bang:

I don't own stock in GM nor do I work for them; I should be allowed to bash them all I want...

God I love Trans Ams, though. :drool:

lol... sounds like a bunch of girls on the rag bitching back and forth in this thread!

GT-R , respectable numbers, butt ugly, japcrap
ZR1 -- respectable numbers, sexy, American

to me it's an easy choice :D

I also loled big time when earlier someone brought up the Evo X being a sports car!

I'm going to guess the median age of the posters in this thread is around 18-19 lol

The 350Z is a sports car, the GTR is not.

You sir, are a weird duck. I guess a 911 twin turbo isn't a sports car either.

lol... sounds like a bunch of girls on the rag bitching back and forth in this thread!

GT-R , respectable numbers, butt ugly, japcrap
ZR1 -- respectable numbers, sexy, American

to me it's an easy choice :D

I also loled big time when earlier someone brought up the Evo X being a sports car!

I'm going to guess the median age of the posters in this thread is around 18-19 lol

Wouldn't I love to be 19 again! :(

Well everyone has their own definition of what they consider to be a sports car. As the way the japs consider their skylines to be "muscle cars". My definition of a sports car would be it needs to be fast, and not have back seats. Yes it would be hard to not call the 911 Turbo a sports car, because porsche has outstanding heritage in creating sports cars. But i would consider the 997 GT3RS more of a sports car than any 911. I just don't care anymore, the GTR doesn't give me one bit of excitement, and by the looks of the the drive must be pretty boring. On the otehr hand you have the ZR1 the fastest production corvette ever built, for the guys at GM to say it can break records at any track it goes to then they must know something we don't. Im sure theres something more to the ZR1 than what they are telling us. GTR can run whatever laps it wants, but again as i have stated before i find it funny how they have run their fastest laps around the same time the V-spec has been caught testing at the 'ring.
-Joel

Well, considering Spoolin has a 650 RWHP truck he's probably a pretty dedicated GM enthusiast. I notice he plays the Devils Advocate on a lot of issues. Kind of annoying but not a bad thing.

True and that is somewhat discomforting to me as well. It's one thing to be butting heads :punch: with a Toyota/Honda/Nissan driver but when it's one of your own :usa: so to speak it kind of hurts.
Yes when a fellow GM owner/driver is able to question that very same corporation it might show that they are being truly unbiased in that they can have an honest debate or viewpoint that might oppose the very product that they are driving. But if they're SO passionate about their opinions about GM (or Ford etc.) it also makes you wonder why they're even driving such a vehicle in the first place.:huh:
It's sort of akin to being married to a woman that you can't stand and constantly bashing/ridiculing her while STILL remaining married to her. :lol: ;)

I apologize if I sound as if I'm GM bashing, it's definitely not my intention. I maintain that GM has the best line of performance engines, the greatest after market availability of any car manufacturer and there are several GM models that I would die for specifically the Sierra Denali, G8, and a ZR1(amazing right?).
I guess I rub people the wrong way because I don't find that every car that GM builds is up to my standards, needs or liking and in some cases I'm upset by the products they put out and slap the brand name GM on it. I guess you could say I'm overly critical of GM in certain aspects because I have high expectations of them.
Having said that, GM like every other company makes increadible cars as well truely horrible cars(all IMO). And I'll voice those opinions if I feel the need to, but I understand this being a GM based forum I'll run into people of differing opinions.

Owning a Ferrari doesn't make you a Ferrari fan by default...

I'm a fan of many things but just because I am a fan of something doesn't mean I have to blindly agree with everything that they (sports team, or car manufacturer) do.

I certainly don't blindly agree with everything GM does...but I can't think of a single instance anywhere where I completely agree with anything that any company does. Styling is subjective, but the fact is that GM is currently building great, competitive cars on almost all fronts. If you don't like the way they look, fair enough...but go ahead and tell me with a straight face that a Toyota is more exciting. I bet you can't do it.

It's funny to think that i'm saying this, but of the two cars in question, the CHEVROLET is the better built vehicle. It's absolutely fact. Nissan is cranking out junk in terms of quality these days, while GM is topping lists in both quality and reliability. Strange how things work eh?

I apologize if I sound as if I'm GM bashing, it's definitely not my intention. I maintain that GM has the best line of performance engines, the greatest after market availability of any car manufacturer and there are several GM models that I would die for specifically the Sierra Denali, G8, and a ZR1(amazing right?).
I guess I rub people the wrong way because I don't find that every car that GM builds is up to my standards, needs or liking and in some cases I'm upset by the products they put out and slap the brand name GM on it. I guess you could say I'm overly critical of GM in certain aspects because I have high expectations of them.
Having said that, GM like every other company makes increadible cars as well truely horrible cars(all IMO). And I'll voice those opinions if I feel the need to, but I understand this being a GM based forum I'll run into people of differing opinions.



I'm a fan of many things but just because I am a fan of something doesn't mean I have to blindly agree with everything that they (sports team, or car manufacturer) do.


Damn, even when you agree with me you sound like you're arguing, wtf!?!:confused:

Anyway, no one(me included) says you have to ONLY like GM....Hell I love most cars that prove themselves to be unique or special in some way. I love how some Preludes have 4-wheel steering. How sweet is that? The point is, you DO rub me th wrong way, and sometimes, you are right for doing so. I don't think that is the case this time. It seems to me you are just doing it to do it and piss me and others off. There is a time and place for that...telling me I lack intellect when I've proven on many occasions(whether you want to admit it or not) I do know what I'm talking about probably 90-95% of the time. Yes, I've missed the boat a couple times, but I'm man enough to say it!

This time, it's about something entirely subjective which could go either way. You like one way, I like mine. I happen to have a more common view on said subject, and you don't seem to like it, as it doesn't match up with your personal ideals. That's fine, and you can call me an idiot all you want, but I'm still not going to be bullied into believing something I FEEL is wrong or incorrect, especially not on a subject so loosely defined as what being a sports car constitutes.

For instance, I think the 3000GT VR-4 is a fantastic, AWD grand tourer. If you told me you thought it was a sports car, I'd look at you and tell you that it's too heavy, too slow, too boring, and it's a GT. Say what you want, but it's a GT. Hell it's in the damn name!

Or what about the Evolution I threw out there earlier. Same situation. Some people think it's a sports car, but I tell them no, it's a souped-up econobox from Mitsubishi with a racing pedigree made of platinum. At most, it's a sports-SEDAN, not a sportscar.

I don't see how anyone could possibly think that, oh say, a Ferrari F50 and a Lancer Evolution belong in the same category of cars...the same goes for the GTR. Park it next to a Corvette(any year, any model) or an Ariel Atom, and it looks like just another riced-out coupe, or in this case, a heavy 2-door Lancer Evo X wannabe with (Quite possibly the greatest travesty on the GTR...) one of the worst-looking C-pillars the automotive industry has ever produced, right alongside the stupid "kink" on many "bangle"-styled cars...:barf:

Having said that, GM like every other company makes increadible cars as well truely horrible cars(all IMO). And I'll voice those opinions if I feel the need to, but I understand this being a GM based forum I'll run into people of differing opinions.
.

I really don't think GM has any "Horrible" cars when compared to other American Manufacturers and especially the lower tier Japanese and Korean cars. When I was doing competitor testing for one of the big three Japanese Manufacturers, the Cavaliers and Saturn’s always made the cut. Unfortunately, the other domestics didn't fair well and the Korean vehicles were not considered worth testing by the Japanese (I heard that has changed to some extent, due to the shear volume of Korean cars sold here, which couldn't be ignored).

The full battery of tests consisted of subjective testing (Ride and NVH characteristics), followed by a down select before objective tests were run. Vehicle tear downs followed with a materials analysis conducted last. What’s rather interesting is there is very little difference between any of the materials used amongst the American and Japanese Auto makers. The only thing I can recall as far as major differences was thicker glass on the domestics. The vehicle that stood out as being different, using alternative materials was Volkswagen; a wood like Organic material used on the parcel shelf and sand filled pouches used on the front floor for damping? Weird Germans, make it complex for no good reason.

Well I'll agree with you on some of the Korean vehicles, God damn there are some bad nuggets that they produce!! There's also an Indian car company that comes to mind as far as low quality but it isn't sold here...thank god!

I'm still waiting until someone makes a diesel hybrid...that will be sweet!

Damn, even when you agree with me you sound like you're arguing, wtf!?!:confused:


Why do you start all your posts with these condesending remarks. Are you trying to win a popularity contest?

I commend spoolin for mostly taking the high road even when strongly disagreeing with someone.

Damn, even when you agree with me you sound like you're arguing, wtf!?!:confused:

Anyway, no one(me included) says you have to ONLY like GM....Hell I love most cars that prove themselves to be unique or special in some way. I love how some Preludes have 4-wheel steering. How sweet is that? The point is, you DO rub me th wrong way, and sometimes, you are right for doing so. I don't think that is the case this time. It seems to me you are just doing it to do it and piss me and others off. There is a time and place for that...telling me I lack intellect when I've proven on many occasions(whether you want to admit it or not) I do know what I'm talking about probably 90-95% of the time. Yes, I've missed the boat a couple times, but I'm man enough to say it!

This time, it's about something entirely subjective which could go either way. You like one way, I like mine. I happen to have a more common view on said subject, and you don't seem to like it, as it doesn't match up with your personal ideals. That's fine, and you can call me an idiot all you want, but I'm still not going to be bullied into believing something I FEEL is wrong or incorrect, especially not on a subject so loosely defined as what being a sports car constitutes.

For instance, I think the 3000GT VR-4 is a fantastic, AWD grand tourer. If you told me you thought it was a sports car, I'd look at you and tell you that it's too heavy, too slow, too boring, and it's a GT. Say what you want, but it's a GT. Hell it's in the damn name!

Or what about the Evolution I threw out there earlier. Same situation. Some people think it's a sports car, but I tell them no, it's a souped-up econobox from Mitsubishi with a racing pedigree made of platinum. At most, it's a sports-SEDAN, not a sportscar.

I don't see how anyone could possibly think that, oh say, a Ferrari F50 and a Lancer Evolution belong in the same category of cars...the same goes for the GTR. Park it next to a Corvette(any year, any model) or an Ariel Atom, and it looks like just another riced-out coupe, or in this case, a heavy 2-door Lancer Evo X wannabe with (Quite possibly the greatest travesty on the GTR...) one of the worst-looking C-pillars the automotive industry has ever produced, right alongside the stupid "kink" on many "bangle"-styled cars...:barf:

To set the record straight Hydramatic, if you look back I never partook in the argument of what is and isn't a sports car, that's an arbitrary argument that can never be argued only discussed. What is and isn't a sports car to one person is probably different to another. It's kind of like debating whether the Dixie Chicks are country music or if Evanescence is Rock music. Who's to know and who's to care. You can classify cars as you please. I like comparing the Z06 + ZR1 to the GTR because they are similar in price (Z06) and performance (ZR1 - based on it's initial numbers, we'll see when it's actually tested).
What I did find amusing was where you said ...AWD isn't natural. That's were Nissan missed the ball... But with all due respect I'm not interested in debating how AWD isn't natural or why Nissan didn't miss the ball. Just remember Nissan has a huge GTR fan base to cater to and they would anger alot of enthusiasts if they changed the platform from the original R32, R34's etc...
How would you feel if GM made the Corvette AWD or if they slapped a Turbo V6 in it? Wouldn't sit well with enthusiast either.

To set the record straight Hydramatic, if you look back I never partook in the argument of what is and isn't a sports car, that's an arbitrary argument that can never be argued only discussed. What is and isn't a sports car to one person is probably different to another. It's kind of like debating whether the Dixie Chicks are country music or if Evanescence is Rock music. Who's to know and who's to care. You can classify cars as you please. I like comparing the Z06 + ZR1 to the GTR because they are similar in price (Z06) and performance (ZR1 - based on it's initial numbers, we'll see when it's actually tested).
What I did find amusing was where you said But with all due respect I'm not interested in debating how AWD isn't natural or why Nissan didn't miss the ball. Just remember Nissan has a huge GTR fan base to cater to and they would anger alot of enthusiasts if they changed the platform from the original R32, R34's etc...
How would you feel if GM made the Corvette AWD or if they slapped a Turbo V6 in it? Wouldn't sit well with enthusiast either.


Actually, the Skyline R35(our Infiniti G35) was RWD only...
As well as every model up to the R32 body style.

I think you are touching what I've been trying to get across to the GTR fanboy-crowd...I am an enthusiast, and I loved the old Skyline. I think it is downright idiocy to bring ONLY the GTR(which...well in GT-R form....was a trim level, not a whole car, but you know this...) over instead of a whole lineup of Skylines. Where is the Type-M and -S? Where is the four-door GT-R? Where is the Skyline brand as a whole?

I believe that Nissan really screwed up by killing the Skyline and "keeping" the GTR. Wouldn't you agree?

What Nissan did would be like Ford killing off every model Mustang but the Shelby 500KR. It's not the way to gain paying enthusiasts to the brand name. It's actually almost identical to what Pontiac did with the new GTO. They brought in the top model, and it sold like the top model of the car it was based on. We all know that the top-trim of most cars is not what keeps a platform alive, so why would GM introduce a GTO and not a V6 Tempest? It's a recipe for disaster...unless Nissan doesn't care if people actually buy their supercar, or for that matter if it ever gains any profitable popularity with the masses.


Anyway...

Why do you start all your posts with these condesending remarks. Are you trying to win a popularity contest?

I commend spoolin for mostly taking the high road even when strongly disagreeing with someone.

Condescending? Hardly. Opposition doesn't sit well with me...

And no, I'm not trying to win a popularity contest...just discussing an issue on a discussion forum....

You sound like a patch of sour grapes btw...:D

Well I'm not sure what they were trying to do really. I know they wanted to resurrect and have a super car since most other manufacturers have one. I think if they resurrected the whole skyline line of cars they'd be infringing/cutting into the Altima Sentra and Maxima markets and taking away from their sales, most car companies don't want to dilute a specific market with too many models.
Toyota is also getting back in the game with their newest supercar as is lexus apparently. Ford got their foot in with the GT a while back, maybe it was just time for Nissan to get their piece of the cake? All I know is they built a great car that's making waves throughout the industry. I do agree that they shouldn't of killed the skylines though.

They shouldn't have killed the looks is what i think, i thought the R34 looked amazing. That look was impossible to duplicate, this new GTR to me looks like i have said a beefed up 350Z.
-Joel

Ok, I found the perfect Skyline.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmDOkoFSHhY&feature=related

And not to neglect the Supra fans

www.youtube.com/watch?v=0n_ve7N4XxM

Now you can call that Skyline a "Muscle" car.
-Joel

...

And for the Evo fans

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWW0-gQMWCc

:D

As for the Skyline cutting into the Altima and Maxima's sales...I'm not so sure it would be THAT big of an impact. I liken the Skyline more to the Mustang than anything else over here. You could have it in pathetic, yet still fun and cool-looking forms, but also have the mighty GT-R sitting at the top when you got the cash or credit to buy it...there was even a budget performance model like the Mustang GT...

Which is why I'm really disappointed in Nissan, to be perfectly honest...but Ghosn wanted to make everything a Renault, and Renaults haven't had any interesting RWD cars (not counting the V6 Mid-engine Clio) since the old Alpines...

Which is why I've always liked Peugeot better...at least they TRY to make their FWD cars a little cooler than the status quo...

Both cars are beautiful machines no doubt, id take the corvette based on personal choice. This is just the beginging both cars arnt even out yet, and were comparing STOCK cars!!!!! the aftermarket will make these 2 cars even better.

And dont think ferrari,porsche,lambo,and the viper guys are going to sit around without a flag ship of there own

Condescending? Hardly. Opposition doesn't sit well with me...



Honestly, I doubt anyone is gonna convince anyone else to change their minds on these issues. It is interesting to read other's opinions but some of the personal insults arn't neccessary (idk if it was you but comments like, "you really are dense," arn't gonna sway people over that didn't agree with you in the first place, they'll just take you even less seriously).

sp?



You sound like a patch of sour grapes btw...:D


I'm sorry :(

None of you poor bastards can afford either car so stop your bitching

None of you poor bastards can afford either car so stop your bitching

That's a bold statement.

Tell me, what does everyone in this thread make on a yearly basis? You seem to know.

Ok, I found the perfect Skyline.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmDOkoFSHhY&feature=related

And not to neglect the Supra fans

www.youtube.com/watch?v=0n_ve7N4XxM

:funny:

Yes, I've seen both of those before.
IF I ever came into A LOT of coin, I would also do the same as (both) above,
just to piss off the import purist fanboyzz!! (AFTER, of course, I bought my; ZR1, RS200 E, and worked Escort Cossie RS/WRC. ;) )

Honestly, I doubt anyone is gonna convince anyone else to change their minds on these issues. It is interesting to read other's opinions but some of the personal insults arn't neccessary (idk if it was you but comments like, "you really are dense," arn't gonna sway people over that didn't agree with you in the first place, they'll just take you even less seriously).

sp?




I'm sorry :(

I'm sorry if it does seem like I'm being overly hostile, but this isn't the first time Spoolin and I have butted heads before, so there is some history there...I'm sure someone new would probably see what I say as uncalled for and a little bit too much, if not WAY too much for the situation...

I need to work on my temper a bit now that it's been brought to my attention how abusive that little spat seemed...I think you're right, however. This forum would have a better reputation if we kept it more on the civil side...

Yes, spelling, btw. I'm in Print Journalism, so it just kinda irks me to no end when I see stuff like that. That is kind of a difficult word for most people, so don't feel bad... This also explains my tendency to act like an authority on an issue and try my damnedest to convince others of my position. It's just what I do. I'm not really much different in real-life conversations, except I do tend to leave the screaming part out!lol.

ZR1 Testing underway: http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/07/spy-shots-corvette-zr1-attacking-the-nurburgring/

Best part of that entire thing is this - BridgetoGantry.com reports that yesterday there was a helicopter over the track "chasing something that sounded very V8 and awfully supercharged," so perhaps lap times will soon be forthcoming.

Also check out the picture, look at how that front end kicks up during acceleration fucking awesome!
-Joel

**Also how come that one doesn't have any ZR1 badges on it?**

That's a bold statement.

Tell me, what does everyone in this thread make on a yearly basis? You seem to know.

can you afford a $100,000+ car RIGHT NOW?

can you afford a $100,000+ car RIGHT NOW?

If I said I could, what would that prove?

You said no one in this thread could afford one. This thread consists of more people than you and myself. You don't know everyone and their financial situation, so your comment is out of place.

I'm sorry if it does seem like I'm being overly hostile, but this isn't the first time Spoolin and I have butted heads before, so there is some history there...I'm sure someone new would probably see what I say as uncalled for and a little bit too much, if not WAY too much for the situation...

Overly hostile....barely. Maybe a little ranting and saying what a lot of others think, but certainly in bounds. Spoolin and a few of the others that post in this section will try to get your goat by playing the devils advocate. I'm not sure if they intentionally take the opposing view, but the results are typically the same...pissed of GM guys(POGG). One thing I know for certain, if some of these post were about... lets say a Supra on a Supra board, they would be banned for sure!

If I said I could, what would that prove?

You said no one in this thread could afford one. This thread consists of more people than you and myself. You don't know everyone and their financial situation, so your comment is out of place.

Alot of people here who have stockish bolt on cars, claim to be experts and know what a sports car is and should have when they have never owned or driven one themselves, my comment was directed towards them.

A sports car is merely a foundation to build upon :D

Alot of people here who have stockish bolt on cars, claim to be experts and know what a sports car is and should have when they have never owned or driven one themselves, my comment was directed towards them.

Again, quick with the assumptions. I guess there's no hope for you. Carry on.

Alot of people here who have stockish bolt on cars, claim to be experts and know what a sports car is and should have when they have never owned or driven one themselves, my comment was directed towards them.

If a math teacher says 1+1= 3, does that mean she's right because she's a math teacher, and we arn't.


What determine's what a sports car is, isn't it all in the eye of the beholder? Or it has to say it on the brochure?

well we can all agree that your civic is not a sports car!!!!!!!

What determine's what a sports car is, isn't it all in the eye of the beholder? Or it has to say it on the brochure?


That's the devil of the term...It can be anything to anybody, but that doesn't necessarily mean that everyone will agree with you. Certain cars with certain characteristics have statistically been more apt to be called sportscars, whereas others have been called the same thing by a minority of people even when it doesn't fit the bell-curve.

On some cars, it is just an abnormality to call them something they are not(once again to other people, that is!)

Take a Fiesta(god damn it, he's back with the ranting!!!) for instance. Some guys in the UK hot-rod them out and race them and like to call them sports-cars. There is no way in hell, even after being sported-out, that the majority of enthusiasts in this country would EVER consider ANY Fiesta a "sports car."

It's like the new BMW crossover-thingy with four doors and a hatch that they're trying to call a "coupe." A coupe will always have two doors in my opinion. That THING is not a coupe. It's a glorified minivan.

both these cars are sports cars/exotics we can all agree on that

well we can all agree that your civic is not a sports car!!!!!!!

Yeah like I'm gonna take it to heart that your putting down my gas economical and reliable civic in a time where gas price's are doubling within a years time. I should have kept my dsms and trans am to appease you, damn what was I thinking.

That's the devil of the term...It can be anything to anybody, but that doesn't necessarily mean that everyone will agree with you. Certain cars with certain characteristics have statistically been more apt to be called sportscars, whereas others have been called the same thing by a minority of people even when it doesn't fit the bell-curve.

On some cars, it is just an abnormality to call them something they are not(once again to other people, that is!)

Take a Fiesta(god damn it, he's back with the ranting!!!) for instance. Some guys in the UK hot-rod them out and race them and like to call them sports-cars. There is no way in hell, even after being sported-out, that the majority of enthusiasts in this country would EVER consider ANY Fiesta a "sports car."

It's like the new BMW crossover-thingy with four doors and a hatch that they're trying to call a "coupe." A coupe will always have two doors in my opinion. That THING is not a coupe. It's a glorified minivan.


Yeah I can see your point. That actually reminds me of that car Jay Leno has, I think it was a fiesta with the ford SHO motor in it?

Yeah I can see your point. That actually reminds me of that car Jay Leno has, I think it was a fiesta with the ford SHO motor in it?

It's called a Shogun.
Sort of a fabricated/modded answer to Renault's mid engined Clio V-6.

I can't wait to see this car on the street.

I can't wait to see this car on the street.

Same here!! :thumb: :usa:

Unlike the import fanboyzz' savior/wet dream car, which due (in part at least) to the abject spamming/cramming/pimping of it on here, I am already SICK of seeing!! :lol:

Same here!! :thumb: :usa:

Unlike the import fanboyzz' savior/wet dream car, which due (in part at least) to the abject spamming/cramming/pimping of it on here, I am already SICK of seeing!! :lol:

That's about how I feel. The GTR was cool when it was a Skyline and not everybody talked about it all the time. It was one of those, "oh yeah! I forgot about that!" kinda cars.

"Corvette Chief Engineer (and Autoblog commenter) Tadge Juechter said last week that the new ZR1 "will be able to take the production-car track record at any racetrack" and should lap the famed Nurburgring race track in Germany in "seven minutes, twenty-something seconds." Considering Nissan just posted a new official lap time of 7:29 for the GT-R and that the GT-R V-Spec is reportedly clicking off laps in 7:25, them sounds like fightin' words. Well, the ZR1 is officially being flogged around the Ring as we speak, though no one has yet to report a lap time for this gorgeous red prototype that was spotted by KGP photographers. BridgetoGantry.com reports that yesterday there was a helicopter over the track "chasing something that sounded very V8 and awfully supercharged," so perhaps lap times will soon be forthcoming. We imagine the supercharged LS9 V8's 628 horsepower and the ZR1's 205-mph top speed will not disappoint. "

OMG!! GMs using PROTOTYPES at the ring! I heard this car is running more boost and on race slicks...this car will certainly not indicate any "real world" performance out of a production-spec ZR-1. /end sarcasm

I heard this car is running more boost and on race slicks...

Link?

Link?

Right over your head.

Yeah like I'm gonna take it to heart that your putting down my gas economical and reliable civic in a time where gas price's are doubling within a years time. I should have kept my dsms and trans am to appease you, damn what was I thinking.



If gas was $10.00/gallon i would still not drive a civic

Right over your head.

Not exactly. I figured you were just lashing out. It's all right, it's just a car.

Whats really ironic is you can't even say s-r-t-4 on here, you have to say neon. I've never seen an import forum or a 4 banger forum where they'll block out the word camaro or SS and make it so people have to call it a chevy...but I wouldn't be surprised if mods block out the word skyline.


its because were god.















:chug:

I don't think theres nothing wrong with dumdumdumdum, you can't say neon because they are slow as balls. I would have no problem blocking the word skyline/GTR, because everyday theres some new post about it. And usually the posts are to bash on how they got a better time than a Z06 that used a standinging start, to their running start.
-Joel

Not exactly. I figured you were just lashing out. It's all right, it's just a car.

RedBeauty84ZX is an import fanboy

OMG!! GMs using PROTOTYPES at the ring! I heard this car is running more boost and on race slicks...this car will certainly not indicate any "real world" performance out of a production-spec ZR-1. /end sarcasm


No shit you need a rolling start and racing tires to beat a stock zr-1

If gas was $10.00/gallon i would still not drive a civic

Why not? :::opens up whole new can of warms:::

Reading through this garbage is way too time intensive, and I only have 1 question.

What is the price difference between the GTR and the ZR-1 Corvette?

Reading through this garbage is way too time intensive, and I only have 1 question.

What is the price difference between the GTR and the ZR-1 Corvette?

TBD by the free market! There is no way the Manufacturers will be able to hold down the price on a limited production vehicle. If the dealers are locked into selling a GTR for 69k or whatever they’re supposed to sell for, your going to find a lot of friends and relatives(of the dealer) selling them for 100k on the open market. Corvette is more of a known quantity but the ZR1 starts as a 100k vehicle, so god knows where that will go for.

TBD by the free market! There is no way the Manufacturers will be able to hold down the price on a limited production vehicle. If the dealers are locked into selling a GTR for 69k or whatever they’re supposed to sell for, your going to find a lot of friends and relatives(of the dealer) selling them for 100k on the open market. Corvette is more of a known quantity but the ZR1 starts as a 100k vehicle, so god knows where that will go for.

The reason I asked is because I am curious as to how people are going to react when and if the ZR-1 does break the GTR's record.

Because I know with the Viper, it was always the Pro-Gm crowd shouting "The Viper is $25,000 more then the Vette, put $25,000 in the Vette and it'll spank the Viper."

If the MSRP on the GTR and ZR1 are 75k and 100k, respectively....it would seem that the ZR1 should beat the GTR.

If the MSRP on the GTR and ZR1 are 75k and 100k, respectively....it would seem that the ZR1 should beat the GTR.

That's flawed logic. The ZR1 may be $100k, but what about the Ferrari's and Lamborghini's that will get their asses handed to them? They're a good step above the $100k mark.

The reason I asked is because I am curious as to how people are going to react when and if the ZR-1 does break the GTR's record.

Because I know with the Viper, it was always the Pro-Gm crowd shouting "The Viper is $25,000 more then the Vette, put $25,000 in the Vette and it'll spank the Viper."

If the MSRP on the GTR and ZR1 are 75k and 100k, respectively....it would seem that the ZR1 should beat the GTR.

You would think so from a customers perception. From a manufacturers stand point, the GTR is a money loser for Nissan, it cost more to build then they sell for. How much, who knows? It could be argued at 100k it would be profitable. It's a prestige vehicle, to generate excitement around Nissan, and for the few consumers that can get one for 75k they will be lucky. The Corvette for GM has always had to hold it's own, and be profitable. They have a locked in following and its a known quantity.

Why not? :::opens up whole new can of warms:::

because i always have to have a fast car, and if gas got 2 high i would just buy a gixxer

That's flawed logic. The ZR1 may be $100k, but what about the Ferrari's and Lamborghini's that will get their asses handed to them? They're a good step above the $100k mark.

Sure, but no one's comparing a Corvette to a Ferrari or Lamborghini. People are comparing the Z06/ZR1 to the GTR.

Sure, but no one's comparing a Corvette to a Ferrari or Lamborghini. People are comparing the Z06/ZR1 to the GTR.

Just because all these fucking threads about the GT-R. The ZR1 was made to compete with Ferrari/Lamborghini/Porsche/etc.

Just because all these fucking threads about the GT-R. The ZR1 was made to compete with Ferrari/Lamborghini/Porsche/etc.

Certainly not from a price/quality standpoint.

Price, yes. The ZR1 out performs it's competition for a much lighter price tag. Quality on the other hand is a given. It's not like the ZR1 is a piece of shit.

Price, yes. The ZR1 out performs it's competition for a much lighter price tag. Quality on the other hand is a given. It's not like the ZR1 is a piece of shit.

More or less what I am saying is that a Corvette and a Ferrari are marketed to two ENTIRELY different market segments. The Corvette and the GTR, are competing for the same market segment.

Care to explain?

Reading through this garbage is way too time intensive, and I only have 1 question.

What is the price difference between the GTR and the ZR-1 Corvette?

Im from Canada and there are laws prohibiting dealer markups. Someone on our forums recently purchased one for 76k walk out.

The difference in a regular GTR and ZR1 is an estimated 50k without markups. We need to compare the ZR1 to a Vspec GTR.

Care to explain?

Sure.

The Corvette and the GTR, along with the Viper are upper level sports cars, with price tags that are relatively competitive with one another. These cars generate profit on margin rather then volume.

Cars such as Bugattis, Ferrari's, Lamborghini, etc are upper echelon cars that have a smaller market (the very wealthy), work on margin, but even moreso. Relatively speaking, this group of manufacturers are priced relatively competitively with one another, although price isn't as big of an issue here.

There is a different value system for each market, if that makes sense. It's an apples to oranges comparison to compare a Vette to a Ferrari/Lambo/etc for this very reason. There is diminishing returns at some point and price isn't an issue.

The Corvette for GM has always had to hold it's own

Not entirely.... Once it became a large enough seller to justify and became known to be a prestige vehicle for GM, it gained protected status.

"Thou shalt not be faster than the Corvette". One of the top commandments in GM-Land. It's why we had a 4 seat, F-Body based Firebird, instead of a 2 seat sports car from Pontiac. It's why Buick got in trouble for the Grand National. It's why it took so long for the Corvette's engines to migrate down to the F-Body. And so it goes.

These days, it's a moot point. You're not going to be much (if any) faster than the Z06, or especially ZR1, and even the Z51 is a hard target to hit, when dealing with more seats, more length, and more overall mass on chassis that are not purpose built for performance. But back in the C3 and C4 days, it was a different story. Once they lost Zora, the Corvette team sort of lost their way, and they didn't have anyone to light a fire under them because nothing else from GM could be faster.

Sure.

The Corvette and the GTR, along with the Viper are upper level sports cars, with price tags that are relatively competitive with one another. These cars generate profit on margin rather then volume.

Cars such as Bugattis, Ferrari's, Lamborghini, etc are upper echelon cars that have a smaller market (the very wealthy), work on margin, but even moreso. Relatively speaking, this group of manufacturers are priced relatively competitively with one another, although price isn't as big of an issue here.

There is a different value system for each market, if that makes sense. It's an apples to oranges comparison to compare a Vette to a Ferrari/Lambo/etc for this very reason. There is diminishing returns at some point and price isn't an issue.

That's all fluff. People looking for Ferrari's and Lambos only look past the 'Vette because it's an American car, and not SUPER expensive (read "exclusive"). But there is an increasing drive for performance and good price, Aston, Noble, Lotus, Ascari, TVR, BMW (1 series).... even Ferrari is working on lower priced models (rumors of bringing the Dino brand back). The Corvette team (and GM) is trying to shake that disdain off and, if not, kick the shit out of everyone along the way and show them how much money they wasted for being idiots.

The Z06 is already faster than the Viper. There is no need to go more expensive and more powerful. They did that to reach much higher than the mere Viper.

Fluff? Only to uneducated.

Every product has a target market.

People look past the Vette because A) They have a lot of money to spend and have a different value system then you or I have B) Because even an entry level Ferrari is of better build quality then a ZR1 vette. They're willing to trade the performance for the looks, quality, luxory and prestige of owning a Ferrari or (insert car here).

It's very simple. These cars are marketed at two different segments and generate profit in different fashions.

The "drive for performance" you speak of is just companies expanding their revenue streams, and aren't their main drivers. Plus they can do such things with established reputation.

You seem to know a lot about GM's inner workings, do you work for them?

TBD by the free market! There is no way the Manufacturers will be able to hold down the price on a limited production vehicle. If the dealers are locked into selling a GTR for 69k or whatever they’re supposed to sell for, your going to find a lot of friends and relatives(of the dealer) selling them for 100k on the open market. Corvette is more of a known quantity but the ZR1 starts as a 100k vehicle, so god knows where that will go for.

GREAT points.
Like what exactly is Datsun going to do anyway, recind/revoke the dealer's franchise for gouging a limited edition specialty car?? I think NOT, they cannot afford to lose dealerships. :nono:

Now that being said, I fully expect the first/early ZR1s to be gouged as well. Just like the early Z06es were, until more were produced/became available.

Either way, hopefully GM will not lose as much on each ZR1 as Nipsan will lose on each GTR (let alone the supa dupa Vee Spec).

Just because all these fucking threads about the GT-R. The ZR1 was made to compete with Ferrari/Lamborghini/Porsche/etc.

You need to be more precise because it depends on what you interpret compete to mean, If you mean compete for the same market share? then NO, your wrong. Compete performance wise, than sure but then so does the GTR.

Price, yes. The ZR1 out performs it's competition for a much lighter price tag. Quality on the other hand is a given. It's not like the ZR1 is a piece of shit.

Nobody knows how the ZR1 performs so it's hard to say for a fact that it outperforms it's competition. All we know is how much power it makes and what it might be capable of.

Care to explain?


You'll rarely see the media do a direct comparison between a corvette and a Lambo or Ferrari, or Bughatti, or Pagani, etc... primarily due to the market their priced for and how they are classed. Corvette's are not labeled exotics because of the build materials and attention to detail are not remotely close to what you'll find in exotics. Are the performance figures similar...mostly yeah. However, you'll see the Corvette compared with Porsche's, MB's, BMW's, and now Nissan. So it's not a far stretch of the imagination to understand why the GTR and the ZR1/Z06 are being compared to each other, by the media, by the industry, by the companies and buy their fans.
I'd be like comparing a Mustang GT with an Aston Martin DB7...two way different class of cars, markets and pricing although the performance numbers are similar.

More or less what I am saying is that a Corvette and a Ferrari are marketed to two ENTIRELY different market segments. The Corvette and the GTR, are competing for the same market segment.

I see it more as the ZR1 is marketed to the Ferrari crowd, who want to stand out among other corvettes. Its insanely fast, looks killer, and you can always brag how you spent $100K on it. The GTR is trying to get into the Z06s market, which is affordable supercar performance. The ZR1 has jumped onto its own level, that even the likes of Ferrari and Lamborghini wont be able to touch it.
-Joel

I see it more as the ZR1 is marketed to the Ferrari crowd, who want to stand out among other corvettes. Its insanely fast, looks killer, and you can always brag how you spent $100K on it. The GTR is trying to get into the Z06s market, which is affordable supercar performance. The ZR1 has jumped onto its own level, that even the likes of Ferrari and Lamborghini wont be able to touch it.
-Joel

Right there you pretty much proved my point. People who buy Ferrari's don't need to brag about how much money they spent. It's apparent. And they aren't interested in Corvettes. In regards to true supercars, the Corvette is the lowest common denominator in you were to survey the elite.

Well in a way the Corvette "was" the lowest in the elite, if you take the Z06 into account. It was fast, but not fast enough to be considered in the group of some of Europes finest. The ZR1 has brought everything to another dimension, it has totally defied what the Z06 has done. Yes Ferrari guys don't need to say how much they spent on the car, like you said its obvious it has Ferrari on it that comes with a price. But the ZR1 is probably the pinnacle of performance, bringing an awesome 638 supercharged hp to the table, carbon-ceramic brakes (supercar brakes for the ultimate supercar), noticeable carbon fiber everywhere (you know this isn't your average corvette, and best of all supercar crushing performance in stock form with warranty.
-Joel

Well in a way the Corvette "was" the lowest in the elite, if you take the Z06 into account. It was fast, but not fast enough to be considered in the group of some of Europes finest. The ZR1 has brought everything to another dimension, it has totally defied what the Z06 has done. Yes Ferrari guys don't need to say how much they spent on the car, like you said its obvious it has Ferrari on it that comes with a price. But the ZR1 is probably the pinnacle of performance, bringing an awesome 638 supercharged hp to the table, carbon-ceramic brakes (supercar brakes for the ultimate supercar), noticeable carbon fiber everywhere (you know this isn't your average corvette, and best of all supercar crushing performance in stock form with warranty.
-Joel

Joel,

Do you really think that matters to the people are are spending 6 figures? Is the Corvette the best value, sure. But in that class I don't see monetary value holding the same weight as it does with cars that are south of $100,000

This thread amazes me.

Just because someone can afford a $500,000 car doesn't mean they piss away money at will. There are a LOT of people who would normally consider purchasing a Ferrari/Lamborghini/etc. that will give the ZR1 a hard look. Why? It's cheaper and has the performance to rival/beat the competition. Sure, there are many who won't give the Corvette a 2nd look because it doesn't have the heritage that the others carry. That's not the point here. The ZR1 may not have the same quality, but with a 10year/100k mile warranty (Ferrari? Lamborghini? Porsche? Not a chance.) I'm sure it will hold it's own.

On a parting note, the GT-R's direct competition from GM is the Z06. End of story. The ZR1 is out of it's league. The Z06 is priced in the same price band as the GT-R, the ZR1 is not.

This thread amazes me.

Just because someone can afford a $500,000 car doesn't mean they piss away money at will. There are a LOT of people who would normally consider purchasing a Ferrari/Lamborghini/etc. that will give the ZR1 a hard look. Why? It's cheaper and has the performance to rival/beat the competition. Sure, there are many who won't give the Corvette a 2nd look because it doesn't have the heritage that the others carry. That's not the point here. The ZR1 may not have the same quality, but with a 10year/100k mile warranty (Ferrari? Lamborghini? Porsche? Not a chance.) I'm sure it will hold it's own.

On a parting note, the GT-R's direct competition from GM is the Z06. End of story. The ZR1 is out of it's league. The Z06 is priced in the same price band as the GT-R, the ZR1 is not.

Go to a Ferrari or Lambo board and see what they feel about GM. Anyone looking for a Ferrari or Lambo will not look at a GM made vehicle.

The problem is, these exclusive exotics dont share a stable with cobalts, civics, sentra's, monte carlos, etc.....

There's more to being exotic than hp. GM is not a prestigous name and neither is a Corvette.

because i always have to have a fast car, and if gas got 2 high i would just buy a gixxer

Got ya, that's cool then.

Go to a Ferrari or Lambo board and see what they feel about GM. Anyone looking for a Ferrari or Lambo will not look at a GM made vehicle.

The problem is, these exclusive exotics dont share a stable with cobalts, civics, sentra's, monte carlos, etc.....

There's more to being exotic than hp. GM is not a prestigous name and neither is a Corvette.

Good to know that those forums dictate the entire market. Like I said in my post, there are some that won't give GM a 2nd look due to the reasons you stated. Not everyone that can afford such cars are as stuck up/snobby as the people you reference.

Good to know that those forums dictate the entire market. Like I said in my post, there are some that won't give GM a 2nd look due to the reasons you stated. Not everyone that can afford such cars are as stuck up/snobby as the people you reference.

Trust me, if I could afford a ZR1 I would!

You need to realize that these Ferrari and Lambo owners are a tight nitch family. Snobby and stuckup, for sure. Sorta like we are when it comes to civics.

Honestly, I'm only interested in how well the new Porsche GT2 and the ZR1 run. They are the true sports cars...AWD isn't natural. That's were Nissan missed the ball...a sports car is about more than being fast, it's the whole experience. So far, the GTR is nothing but a tremendously fast GT, and needs to compare their times to BMW's and Mercedes AMG's instead of real sports cars.:nod:

The 350Z is a sports car, the GTR is not.

Ummm... I guess the Lamborghini Murcielago doesn't qualify as a true sports car because of AWD :confused:

Ummm... I guess the Lamborghini Murcielago doesn't qualify as a true sports car because of AWD :confused:

You didn't read the whole thread....

I had a feeling this would come up.

The Lamborghini will still let you kill yourself in the pursuit of more...and plus, it's a freakin' Lamborghini! That car is ALL about the sports-car experience. It's fast, it's sexy, and it looks good in neon green and orange.

I still don't like the AWD, but whatever floats Lamborghini's boat. Even suggesting that I wouldn't consider the Murcielago a sports car is like suggesting that Bruce Dickinson isn't a metal god. Some things are just UNDERSTOOD.

The GTR is a sedan. Get over it.

[QUOTE=Morbid;9330704]This thread amazes me.
Sure, there are many who won't give the Corvette a 2nd look because it doesn't have the heritage that the others carry. QUOTE]

:eek:

I thought it was the other way around!lol

Well you got to consider also the ZR1 is in a league of its own. It can hang and beat some of the supercars from across the ocean Ferrari/Lamborghini/Porsche. But the key thing to take into account is the ZR1 can easily be a daily driver as is the Z06. How many people with a Ferrari/Lamborghini/Porsche(upper model porsches not the base 911 or the Boxsters) daily drive the cars they have paid the same price as a house for? Most of the ones i see in South Fl. and there are alot of them, are usually on Miami Beach/South Beach, or even parked at a Starbucks. The ZR1 is the ultimate performance car that you can drive to the ends of the earth like your common C6 and still have the power of the C6R on tap to disengage yourself from the normals. Im not taking anything from Lam/Ferr/Porsche they have the greatest heritage ever, whether it be racing heritage or overall history. My opinion is they fall on their own Supercar level, since either one of their models will get you noticed, and give you a presence of you have arrived. The ZR1 on the other hand just created its own level of superiorty, as being the average drivers Supercar. With the performance that matches and/or surpasses those from around the world, has great heritage in Corvette history, yet wont totally make you go broke (if you can afford the $100K price tag). So in a way the ZR1 is sitting on top of its own mountain of conquest, and theres nothing yet that can top it.
-Joel

Many refer to the super slow acura nsx as an "Exotic" so that throws off the definition. Its slow it looks good and handles good but its $75,000

but lacks the core of a true sports car/exotic= power

With all this talk of hp,weight, and super cars lets look at the current super car market and cars close to the price of the gtr and zr-1 and a few exceptions, these figures are according to the current issue of road and track so take it with a grain of salt, weight are listed as curb weight and price is as tested

Corvette Z06- ohv v-8, 505hp, 3190lbs, $79,595
Corvette c6- ohv v-8 ,436hp, 3285lbs, $56,185

Ameritech Mclaren- v-12,627hp, 2840lbs, $1,131,120 :hail:

Bently continental gt- W12tt, 552hp, 5350lbs, $189,495
Bently gt speed- W12tt, 600hp, 5170lbs, $226,555

BMW m5- v-10, 500hp,4035lbs, $91,995
BMW m3 coupe- v-8,414hp, 3650lbs, $70,395

Bugatti Veyron 16.4- w16t,1001hp,4470lbs, $1,482,700

Cadillac XLR-V- v-8, 443hp,3870lbs, $100,000

Callaway c16- v-8,616hp, 3415lbs, $192,180

Dodge Viper srt10- v10,600 hp,3445lbs, $93,535

Ferrari enzo-v12,650hp,3230lbs,$652,830
Ferrari F430- v8,483hp,3195lbs., $248,903
Ferrari 599GTB Fiorano F1- v12,611hp,3865lbs, $319,408

Im 2 lazy 2 do all of the, but plug the zr-1 and GTR in that market and I tihnk they can hold their own compared to the fancy euros

With all this talk of hp,weight, and super cars lets look at the current super car market and cars close to the price of the gtr and zr-1 and a few exceptions, these figures are according to the current issue of road and track so take it with a grain of salt, weight are listed as curb weight and price is as tested

Corvette Z06- ohv v-8, 505hp, 3190lbs, $79,595
Corvette c6- ohv v-8 ,436hp, 3285lbs, $56,185

Ameritech Mclaren- v-12,627hp, 2840lbs, $1,131,120 :hail:

Bently continental gt- W12tt, 552hp, 5350lbs, $189,495
Bently gt speed- W12tt, 600hp, 5170lbs, $226,555

BMW m5- v-10, 500hp,4035lbs, $91,995
BMW m3 coupe- v-8,414hp, 3650lbs, $70,395

Bugatti Veyron 16.4- w16t,1001hp,4470lbs, $1,482,700

Cadillac XLR-V- v-8, 443hp,3870lbs, $100,000

Callaway c16- v-8,616hp, 3415lbs, $192,180

Dodge Viper srt10- v10,600 hp,3445lbs, $93,535

Ferrari enzo-v12,650hp,3230lbs,$652,830
Ferrari F430- v8,483hp,3195lbs., $248,903
Ferrari 599GTB Fiorano F1- v12,611hp,3865lbs, $319,408

Im 2 lazy 2 do all of the, but plug the zr-1 and GTR in that market and I tihnk they can hold their own compared to the fancy euros

Do you consider the Exige exotic?

With all this talk of hp,weight, and super cars lets look at the current super car market and cars close to the price of the gtr and zr-1 and a few exceptions, these figures are according to the current issue of road and track so take it with a grain of salt, weight are listed as curb weight and price is as tested

Corvette Z06- ohv v-8, 505hp, 3190lbs, $79,595
Corvette c6- ohv v-8 ,436hp, 3285lbs, $56,185Just to clarify, that might be the price as tested for the base model Corvette but that is NOT what their base price is (roughly $46k MSRP) and you can of course get a new Corvette for a little as $42k right now.
430hp in a 3200 pound, 190mph, 30mpg car, not too shabby. :nod:

Many refer to the super slow acura nsx as an "Exotic" so that throws off the definition. Its slow it looks good and handles good but its $75,000
but lacks the core of a true sports car/exotic= powerCloser to $90k++ actually :eek: I think.
And I agree. :nod: