Generation IV Internal Engine - problems with lsx 454 please help!!!

so i have this motor built runs good for about two weeks then a lifter goes bad and it starts pouring smoke out of the valvecover filter that is in place of the oil cap . got new lifters let them soak in oil overnight and then some put it back together and still same thing tapping and smoking any ideas guys ? appreciate any help yall can offer

Steady puffing out of the valve cover? How did the cam lobes and cylinder look when you pulled the head for the lifter swap?

cylinders look good and seemed fine

When you pulled the heads to replace the lifters, did you inspect the valves? Possible bent valve causing intake reversion?

What is the rest of your PCV setup? Could be a bad PCV valve, I have seen something similar with a bad PCV, but with your breather I am not sure what you are running for the rest of it...

What lifters where you using that failed? Who is your builder and what do they say? What lifter preload are you using? Could the cam timing be off, was the cam degree'd?

Basically, more info please... heheh

pcv just breathers on each valve cover that was suggested by the builder. lifters caddy high rev lifters . no bent valves pushrods r good . Texas Speed built the motor .bought it almost 5 months ago and i have had problems with since i got it tired of dealing with them just gonna have to fix it on my own i guess

This is the long-block that made 750 flywheel horsepower on the engine dyno & had no issues at all when the engine shipped & when the engine was dynoed in the GTO.

I personally broke this engine in on the dyno with proper oil & additives for best results. This engine made unbelieveable power on the engine dyno & worked well for months in the GTO making something over 550rwhp in your GTO.

Sorry for the Caddy lifter failing on you, but I got you new lifters, new gaskets & new intake valves on the cylinder that failed.

I never want anyone to have issues with a long-block, but a engine that smoked very very little out of the breather going to crazy smoking after it was taken apart points to something fairly simple IMHO.

I'm not suprised the engine had a hurt valve & retainer after the lifter failed. We had discussed with you that it was important for you to check the valvetrain immediately. Instead of checking the valvetrain & lifters you decided to just demand a set of lifters that weren't installed for several months. We shipped you new caddy lifters 2 months before you ever checked the lifter in the motor & found out it was damaged.

The issue is if a lifter fails you don't typically want to drive around on it for 2 months.

That being said I don't see how the lifter failure would have anything to do with a motor not smoking out the breather before it was taken apart, and then suddenly smoking. Hopefully we'll find something simple & get that thing running for you!

car was only driven about a week from the first time i called about the lifter because it was my only transportation at the time. The car has been smoking since then. It took you almost two months to get me a set of lifters and were going to be installed the night they finally got here which is when i found the retainer problem. Then it took another two weeks to get the valve changed, head gasket,and a stock rocker arm. Im not trying to bad mouth you just stating the truth because i would finally like to be able to enjoy this motor for the first time since it was bought and thats it!!! trying to get help wherever i can!!!

Compression and leakdown would seem to be a good place to start. Especially if you know the supect cylinder. Just check it and the cylinder next to it and compare.

-Geoff

Compression and leakdown for sure. I personally would do all cylinders though.

Sounds like a valve seal/sealing problem.

hey guys i really appreciate all your feed back doing a leakdown test ASAP will keep you updated keep any new ideas coming

When did the problems start?

Bought the motor very end of december was installed first week of january and tuned had a lifter collapse about a week after that and since then ive just been trying to get parts warrantied. finally got lifters about a month ago and was starting to change them out when i found this pics below. At this time i sent the head off they put in a new valve a new retainer same lock. got the head back and about a week after that the head gasket and the new rocker arm and after putting it together a few days ago it still has a knock and is smoking out the breathe filters on both valve covers and know the exhaust as well. car is parked until i can do a compression test and see whats wrong.

:eek:

What the hell?:eek:

I have never seen that before, but it is definitely the outline of the rocker in the valvespring and retainer. I would say at the minimum you need a new rocker, valve, spring, retainer and keepers.

Is that the same one that collapsed the rocker?

-Geoff

Holy shit, that's horrible. Plan on at least removing the heads and possibly a motor disassembly for inspection.

car was only driven about a week from the first time i called about the lifter because it was my only transportation at the time. The car has been smoking since then. It took you almost two months to get me a set of lifters and were going to be installed the night they finally got here which is when i found the retainer problem. Then it took another two weeks to get the valve changed, head gasket,and a stock rocker arm. Im not trying to bad mouth you just stating the truth because i would finally like to be able to enjoy this motor for the first time since it was bought and thats it!!! trying to get help wherever i can!!!

One theory, how did you know you had a lifter problem from noise alone? Did it miss and what was your AFR readings? The damage I see on the retainer from the rocker arm should have bent the pushrod? What does the spark plug look like compared to the others, rich or lean, oil soaked? Damage could be caused by more than a lifter, like a valve sticking closed due to valve guides to tight? I say this last one due to no piston damage. Just do every diag you can, so when go into the engine with a better idea of what happened? How many miles on this engine? What was oil pressure? and make sure to check leak down with rocker arms tighten down to specs, to have the whole valve train involved when diag. Sorry to hear about your problems, keep us informed.

vavle seal/guide? did you seal the rocker bolts when you reinstalled them?

the head has already been removed and was sent back to builder he installed a new valve a new keeper and decide to reuse the same lock you see in the picture. i new i had a dead lifter by sound first and then after disassembly. there was no drop in oil pressure cyclinder walls and pistons and pushrods looked fine. weird thing when i pulled the spark plugs every one of the tips were gone. motor has just over 1200 miles

pics of the plugs?

man i already tossed them looked like they were burned off not broken

I bet you hurt a piston ring. If the tips burned off the plugs then it was running lean. What did the damaged valve look like? Was it melted at all. You could have gotten a piece of the burned spark plug behind it causing it to not seat all the way causing excessive clearance between the pushrod and lifter. This may have cause the lifter to collaspe at higher rpm. That is my theory. And I still think it hurt a ring.

the tap you heard came from the rocker beating on the retainer

some small investigation would have saved you and texas speed a lot of trouble

i have seen valves lose the tips before... you figure all that metal had to go somewhere.

now that is back together it should be easy to tell if one of the pushrods is not being loaded vs. a bottom knock.

i cant imagine how that lock is even reusable.. i also cant imaging you being ok enough with that to strap it back down to an lsx build... its not a lawn mower.

the only thing visibly wrong with the valve was the tip, as soon as it started tapping i checked everything i knew to check twice there was no excessive gap between pushrod and rocker arm and the tap at first was not the rocker arm it was the lifter not pumping up. as far as using the same lock your right i shouldnt have used it was not a good idea but figured they had the head for almost three weeks and couldnt get a new lock i didnt want to even think how long it would take them to get one.now all lifters are pumping like they should. i agree i think it got a ring as well

did compression test
cylinder 1 - 155
cylinder 2 - 200
cylinder 3 - 145
cylinder 4 - 185
cylinder 5 - 135
cylinder 6 - 155
cylinder 7 - 150
cylinder 8 - 160

oiled the cylinders

cylinder 1 - 170
cylinder 2 - 200
cylinder 3 - 155
cylinder 4 - 190
cylinder 5 - 135
cylinder 6 - 175
cylinder 7 - 155
cylinder 8 - 180
will have pics of the spark plugs i just pulled out later tonight

I would say you have problems...

I would say you have problems...

That motor is probably trashed.. Why would you put a 454 LSX in your only means of transportation? and then drive it for a week with a bad lifter? :bang: It needs to be pulled out and torn down for sure at this point. There is no telling what kind of crap is in that engine.. Good Luck

ya i know not a good call on my part still gotta fix it though and your right i agree with its gonna have to be torn down

looks like the valve welded itself to the seat, i cant see how the pushrod is OK it must be made of strong stuff. you would think there would be trouble with an exhaust valve first, but a lean condition can cause everything to melt. I can remember seeing a photo of an engine on a dyno with single throttle bodies on it where you could see right into the intake valve. when it was running flat out, you could see the head of the intake valve glowing red hot. this engine looks very sick. lets all pull our plugs more often! it doesnt matter how much fancy electronics you've got, the plugs will always tell the real story....
a quick check of the plugs could have saved this engine.

i checked the plugs quite a few times they never showed anything bad till the last time right before i pulled the head but idk gonna have to find someone to go through it for me i guess again i appreciate the input guys thank you

Where you located, SE? I think I have heard of this car. #5 looks like it has issues, who tuned the car?

i live in San Angelo TX, tuned by Texas Speed

this is sounding more and more like tuning issue to me. what did the pistons look like when you pulled the head? black and carbon covered? or brand new shiny clean and spotless?...i'm betting they looked pretty clean...(lean)

yep pretty clean ! the right bank seems to have leaned out and the left bank was really rich!

i'd say take your car to a different tuner when it's ready again, or at least have the current tune looked at by an unbiased 3rd party if you can.

the damage sucks, sorry about your trouble. i'm going to be doing a similar build soon hopefully. what heads/intake are you running? what cam too if you don't mind me asking...?

How does a tune command one side to go rich and one side to go lean... that sounds stupid to me. Maybe a vacuum leak, or fouled O2 or something.

worked ls7 heads flowed 390 cfm at .700 and ported ls7 intake, cam is around 660 lift

If it were the tune, it would have reared its head a lot earlier. Texas Speed broke it in and power pulled on motor and in car. I would be looking at fuel delivery or vacuum leak or something else mechanical with the car. One bank rich and 1 not is not likely the tune after 1500 miles.

The blame the tune with out evidence thing is getting old. "hay, my stereo quit working, its probably the tune!"

i agree guys think its gonna be a delivery issue. any suggestions on what fuel rail and regulator setup to use?

anymore progress on this Cam? give me a call if you would like a hand.

-Jimmy