Automotive News, Media & Press - The Truth About the Nissan GT-R and the Nürburgring Lap Record

The Truth About the Nissan GT-R and the Nürburgring Lap Record

By James Ansell
May 21, 2008

I agree with TTAC reviewer Stephan Wilkinson : the new Nissan GT-R is the old Honda NSX. Once people actually start driving Nissan’s “everyday supercar”– as opposed to simply jumping on the hype bandwagon and bench racing numbers supplied by Nissan– they’ll appreciate the parallel. Although I'm still looking forward to my first hands-on experience with the GT-R, the reality of the car’s true nature and importance in automotive history is right under the fan-boys’ noses.

The GT-R allegedly 'outperforms' thoroughbred supercars at a fraction of the price. Yes, but what price? The sticker price, or the in-your-garage price? Considering the hype surrounding the car and the limited production numbers, it will be years before a single new $70k GT-R will be sold for under $100k. At the moment, comparing the Nissan to say, a Corvette Z06, obfuscates the truth. But what the [Green] Hell…

No small part of the current GT-R lovefest can be attributed to the car’s 7:38 Nürburgring lap time. As TTAC has pointed out, there are real questions about the Green Hellmobile’s qualifications for the title “second fastest production car around the ‘Ring.” The car’s suspension was modified from the current Japanese production model, supposedly to reflect the American and European spec. Supposedly. Will anyone get a chance to compare the fabled ‘Ring runner and a final production car? Somehow I doubt it.

Meanwhile, the YouTube video of the Nissan’s “historic run” clearly shows that the GT-R had a flying start. All other manufacturers testing at the ‘Ring use standing starts for published lap times. The video also proves that the car's lap time was not measured at the exact same location (start and stop). Take these two factors into account, and the 7:40 claim seems highly dubious.

The icing on the cake: GT-R chief engineer Kazutoshi Mizuno’s subsequent admission from that "We used cut slick tyres." If that doesn’t cancel their claim, nothing does.

In fact, a regular Corvette Z06 would probably beat the GT-R on the Nürburgring. When Road & Track tested the GT-R against the Z06 on a track much smaller than the ‘Ring, they concluded that the GT-R was fast in the corners, but they didn't shed a whole lot of light on how the GT-R performed on the straights. Although the ‘Ring has an enormous amount of corners, it also has some of the longest straight-aways in the world.

In Road & Track’s technical comparo, the GT-R was just as fast to 60mph as the Z06 (despite being less powerful). What many have over-looked is the trap speed at the end of the 1/4 mile. The Z06 is about seven mph faster than the GT-R. When you look at the graph that accompanies these numbers, the GT-R’s AWD system gave it a clear advantage– but only at the start. Applied to the Green Hell, the Z06 would outpace the GT-R on the straights.

The Z06’s fastest recorded lap time at the Nürburgring is 7:42.9 This lap was driven in 2005 by Jan Magnussen in 'muggy' conditions. Last year, Chevy revised the suspension on all Corvette models including the Z06. In theory, the new suspension and better weather conditions should be enough for a Z06 to equal or even better the Nissan GT-R's true time of +7:40. When you consider that the Z06 can achieve this time with a GM-standard standing start and production tires, it seems obvious that the GT-R is no match for the Z06 around the ring.

But what does it all mean? Well, not much actually. Every racetrack is different and some cars are suited to some tracks while others are not. The GT-R is suited to smaller tracks like the one R&T used, and the Z06 is suited to longer and faster ones like the ‘Ring.

So why did I bother ranting about this? Nissan has chosen to flaunt its Nürburgring lap times to show the world that their new, high-tech Nissan GT-R is the new bang-for-the-buck Alpha. But it’s not true. The cheaper Corvette Z06 is still the worlds best [unmodified] performance car bargain. What’s more, if the GT-R cannot handle a stock Z06, then how will it fare against the upcoming ZR1? Never mind the 'almighty' spec V model.

Given the GT-R’s looks and oft-reported lack of driving feel, there’s only one reason anyone would buy the uber-Nissan: to own the fastest thing on the road. In the corners, maybe. If you were committed enough to drive at 10/10ths (never mind how “easy” it is), you could probably blow-off a 911 or similar. Down the straights (the great American pastime), there are faster and cheaper choices– and that’s without exploring relatively inexpensive modifications.

In short, the GT-R is an awesome achievement, but Wilkinson’s right: it’s not all that.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-truth-about-the-nissan-gt-r-and-the-nurburgring-lap-record/

:secret2: this could get ugly :D

Pissy (AND company) will be on this in; 3-2-1...

In B4 the :lock:

thats awesome, I like it when people tell the truth

TiShield you have just added the greatest post ever, now before you leave your house put on a kevlar vest. And if you see any shiny objects on any roof tops you better duck and hide behind something.
-Joel

TiShield you have just added the greatest post ever, now before you leave your house put on a kevlar vest. And if you see any shiny objects on any roof tops you better duck and hide behind something.
-Joel

:funny: :secret2:

TiShield you have just added the greatest post ever, now before you leave your house put on a kevlar vest. And if you see any shiny objects on any roof tops you better duck and hide behind something.:werd:

TriShield---> :secret2: :bigun2:<---Nissan GTR/import fanboy brigade

:D

Great article! :usa:

Great article, but sadly Its going to turn into the other dozens of threads on here on this car. :( Good or bad Im so tired of hearing about it. :bang:

IBTL :lock::lock::lock:

I say keep it up no matter what the fanboys say, the writer brings up alot of good points and facts that if people would just stop and think it would make sense.

^^Agreed. I'm tired of hearing about this car. They are way over hyping it. I can't wait till we get to read a kill story about a modded 4 gen. f-body killing a new $100K GT-R on the highway.

With that said, I am always happy to read a non-bias review in which the facts are told straight instead of leaning toward the marketing for the vechicle.

This I have to see. The fan boys will have a stroke. :corn:

We all knew this was the truth from the beginning, and its nice that someone wrote it out loud. Thanks for posting, good article.

It's about time someone spoke up, can't wait to see how the fanboys react to this.

Down goes frazier.... (I mean chrissy). Wow, I mean wow. That was a blow that chrissy will have a hard time recovering from, how he'll show his face on this board again is beyond me but I am sure he will. good find tri shield, and um chrissy

In the words of 'the hives', chrissy "I hate to say I told you so"

The Truth About the Nissan GT-R and the Nürburgring Lap Record

The GT-R allegedly 'outperforms' thoroughbred supercars at a fraction of the price. Yes, but what price? The sticker price, or the in-your-garage price? Considering the hype surrounding the car and the limited production numbers, it will be years before a single new $70k GT-R will be sold for under $100k. At the moment, comparing the Nissan to say, a Corvette Z06, obfuscates the truth. But what the [Green] Hell…

Most limited production cars with lots of hype will be marked up at first. The ZR1 included. Does this "obfuscate" the truth about the ZR1? The mark up is a dealer mark up. Has nothing to do with MSRP, which is what's being compared. This brings to mind the Shelby GT500. They were being sold at upwards of $80k. That didn't change the fact that it is still basically a $45k Mustang.

No small part of the current GT-R lovefest can be attributed to the car’s 7:38 Nürburgring lap time. As TTAC has pointed out, there are real questions about the Green Hellmobile’s qualifications for the title “second fastest production car around the ‘Ring.” The car’s suspension was modified from the current Japanese production model, supposedly to reflect the American and European spec. Supposedly. Will anyone get a chance to compare the fabled ‘Ring runner and a final production car? Somehow I doubt it.

Here's an interesting quote from Motor Trends article about the Z06 'Ring time:

"Our man-on-the-spot says GM spent nearly two weeks testing at the Nuerburgring before Magnusson flew in to set a time. Engineers switched suspension settings and changed tires many times before finding the optimum setup."

I wonder if anyone will get a chance to compare the fabled Z06 'Ring runner and a final production car? Somehow, I doubt it.

Meanwhile, the YouTube video of the Nissan’s “historic run” clearly shows that the GT-R had a flying start. All other manufacturers testing at the ‘Ring use standing starts for published lap times. The video also proves that the car's lap time was not measured at the exact same location (start and stop). Take these two factors into account, and the 7:40 claim seems highly dubious.

This has already been run into the ground. Who cares if they use a standing start or a flying start? The difference is negligible. My estimate is a max of 0.5 seconds difference running start vs. flying start. The real issue is where the lap stops. The Pagani Zonda, the CTS-V and the GT-R all stopped their clocks after coming around the last turn, NOT at the starting line. Even though the CTS didn't have a clock on their video, if you count approximately 8 minutes from the start of their run (official time 7:59.32), that 8 minutes is finished immediately after coming around the last turn. If any of these cars were to stop the clocks at the starting line, you could add about 6-7 seconds to all of their runs

The icing on the cake: GT-R chief engineer Kazutoshi Mizuno’s subsequent admission from that "We used cut slick tyres." If that doesn’t cancel their claim, nothing does.

Again, this was a misquote because of a language barrier. The Nissan press release reports Japanese spec tires were used for their runs. Not cut slicks.

In fact, a regular Corvette Z06 would probably beat the GT-R on the Nürburgring. When Road & Track tested the GT-R against the Z06 on a track much smaller than the ‘Ring, they concluded that the GT-R was fast in the corners, but they didn't shed a whole lot of light on how the GT-R performed on the straights. Although the ‘Ring has an enormous amount of corners, it also has some of the longest straight-aways in the world.

Maybe 3 of the "longest straights in the world" but depending on who's counting, well over 120 corners. Add it up.

In Road & Track’s technical comparo, the GT-R was just as fast to 60mph as the Z06 (despite being less powerful). What many have over-looked is the trap speed at the end of the 1/4 mile. The Z06 is about seven mph faster than the GT-R. When you look at the graph that accompanies these numbers, the GT-R’s AWD system gave it a clear advantage– but only at the start. Applied to the Green Hell, the Z06 would outpace the GT-R on the straights.

Again, straight line performance means little on a track with so many corners. Let's compare a Porsche Cayman to a Bugatti Veyron on your local autocross.

The Z06’s fastest recorded lap time at the Nürburgring is 7:42.9 This lap was driven in 2005 by Jan Magnussen in 'muggy' conditions. Last year, Chevy revised the suspension on all Corvette models including the Z06. In theory, the new suspension and better weather conditions should be enough for a Z06 to equal or even better the Nissan GT-R's true time of +7:40. When you consider that the Z06 can achieve this time with a GM-standard standing start and production tires, it seems obvious that the GT-R is no match for the Z06 around the ring.

I think this has already been covered above. And, ummm... if you take a look at the CTS-V video, it's pretty obvious that GM has no "standard" start for their lap times.

But what does it all mean? Well, not much actually. Every racetrack is different and some cars are suited to some tracks while others are not. The GT-R is suited to smaller tracks like the one R&T used, and the Z06 is suited to longer and faster ones like the ‘Ring.

So why did I bother ranting about this? Nissan has chosen to flaunt its Nürburgring lap times to show the world that their new, high-tech Nissan GT-R is the new bang-for-the-buck Alpha. But it’s not true. The cheaper Corvette Z06 is still the worlds best [unmodified] performance car bargain. What’s more, if the GT-R cannot handle a stock Z06, then how will it fare against the upcoming ZR1? Never mind the 'almighty' spec V model.

The Z06 that run the 'Ring was as "unmodified" as the GT-R. Remember, that were both "tuned" for the 'Ring prior to posting official lap times.

Given the GT-R’s looks and oft-reported lack of driving feel, there’s only one reason anyone would buy the uber-Nissan: to own the fastest thing on the road. In the corners, maybe. If you were committed enough to drive at 10/10ths (never mind how “easy” it is), you could probably blow-off a 911 or similar. Down the straights (the great American pastime), there are faster and cheaper choices– and that’s without exploring relatively inexpensive modifications.

In short, the GT-R is an awesome achievement, but Wilkinson’s right: it’s not all that.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-truth-about-the-nissan-gt-r-and-the-nurburgring-lap-record/

Just my .02.

and oh yeah... IBTL!!! :engarde: :lock:

'Los

IBTL :lock::lock::lock:

TriShield is my hero!

Let's keep this bad boy open.

Just my .02.

and oh yeah... IBTL!!!

'Los

You just said alot of nothing. Your opinions are fine and all, but don't really make a difference here.

You just said alot of nothing. Your opinions are fine and all, but don't really make a difference here.

what he meant to say is "fanboy for life!!" :wrist:

We need to find a way for tri-shield not to be killed for blasphemy against the great nippon empire.

hey tri, always love your posts. Normaly whenever I see a GTr thread I pass it buy with a head shake and a sigh. But once I saw the shield I gave it a shot. Thanks for the good read.

Here's an interesting quote from Motor Trends article about the Z06 'Ring time:

"Our man-on-the-spot says GM spent nearly two weeks testing at the Nuerburgring before Magnusson flew in to set a time. Engineers switched suspension settings and changed tires many times before finding the optimum setup."

I wonder if anyone will get a chance to compare the fabled Z06 'Ring runner and a final production car? Somehow, I doubt it.
Wait, wasn't that done back in 2005 before the Z06 was officially released?
Umm, weren't they actually at the 'ring dialing the car in for it's final 2006 model year PRODUCTION suspension set up?:huh:
Yes they were there for a few weeks before testing the car but they were preparing it for it's final iteration before release, not simply racing around in a ringer.
Meaning that it may not have been a special one off at all that Magnusson was driving but actually a pure stock, final factory production Z06. :drive:

You just said alot of nothing. Your opinions are fine and all, but don't really make a difference here.

Just curious... what part of my post was opinion? I simply restated the facts that can be found if anyone bothers to do a search beyond LS1Tech. When I first noticed the GT-R threads here several weeks ago, the bias was obvious. And I was OK with that because this is an LSx board. When I started reading and searching for more information, I found that there was a lot of misinformation and posted my findings. If I had found information pointing in the other direction, I would have posted those results.

If anything, this article is the writers opinion, with an obvious bias. That's why it's in the editorial section. His "facts" have been shown to be false many times already. There was an article posted in one of the locked/deleted GT-R threads that was a very well written, unbiased article that spoke of the good and the bad. This article is far from unbiased.

It's a shame that "All things GT-R" are now banned from this site because of the bickering and name calling of just a few members. The hype that surrounds this car is what I thought "Automotive News, Media and Press" is all about. For those that don't want to here about Automotive news outside of the GM world, maybe this subforum isn't for you. That said, I'm sure your opinions will be welcome none-the-less. For those of us who have owned GM cars as well as others, and enjoy discussing all of them, I hope the LS1Tech mods will reconsider their GT-R ban, and any future bans on future cars that I'm sure will bring alot of hype.

'Los

Wait, wasn't that done back in 2005 before the Z06 was officially released?
Umm, weren't they actually at the 'ring dialing the car in for it's final 2006 model year PRODUCTION suspension set up?:huh:
Yes they were there for a few weeks before testing the car but they were preparing it for it's final iteration before release, not simply racing around in a ringer.
Meaning that it may not have been a special one off at all that Magnusson was driving but actually a pure stock, final factory production Z06. :drive:

You are correct. That was a pre-production Z06 that the engineers were working on, and the same Z06 that set the 7:42.99 lap time at the 'Ring. This is exactly what Nissan was doing with the GT-R. Testing and tuning the suspension and electronics for it's official release to Europe and The States. Now whether or not GM and Nissan passed the exact same settings to their production cars is anyone's guess.

Another interesting thing that I've recently read is that the Japanese spec GT-R is making more power than the Euro/USA spec GT-R. Apparently the Japan spec GT-R is tuned for use with 95 octane fuel which is readily available in Japan, and is tuned for use with 91 octane elsewhere. Japan spec GT-Rs are putting down 480 whp! Now this is just a guess, but maybe the GT-R that ran 7:29 at the 'Ring was a Japan spec tune with a better tuned suspension. Maybe Japan gets better power, and we get better handling? This might explain some of the discrepancies that have surfaced with the production cars tested here in The States.

'Los

But what i believe hes trying to say is that the Z06 was not yet available to the public, yet the GTR was already hitting our shores and for sale in Japan when it pulled its times. That basically the Z06 was still in the testing phase to get all the suspension and everything set-up prior to the car hitting the streets. Were as the GTR was already available to us and in Japan, why would they need to still be testing stuff?
-Joel

But what i believe hes trying to say is that the Z06 was not yet available to the public, yet the GTR was already hitting our shores and for sale in Japan when it pulled its times. That basically the Z06 was still in the testing phase to get all the suspension and everything set-up prior to the car hitting the streets. Were as the GTR was already available to us and in Japan, why would they need to still be testing stuff?
-Joel

The GT-R testing and 7:29 lap time was done back in April. Official release of the GT-R stateside isn't until July.

'Los

Let me make this very clear. Until a US spec version is run by an independent body the GTR is just a hyped up UGLY POS! Find some real data that can be duplicated and post it up. That car in production trim will never turn that number again even if Ayrton Senna was brought back to life to drive it.

Damn straight.

The GTR is an awesome car...but not THE awesome car it is claimed to be.

Glad someone wrote a clear and cogent article about this.

W

Let me make this very clear. Until a US spec version is run by an independent body the GTR is just a hyped up UGLY POS! Find some real data that can be duplicated and post it up. That car in production trim will never turn that number again even if Ayrton Senna was brought back to life to drive it.

Hyped up? Yes. UGLY? Yes. Nissan could have done a better job with the styling, but this is just a matter of opinion. There is no "real data" to support this. :eyes:

Most of the "real data" has already been posted for both the GT-R and the Z06, you just have to look for it. As far as whether or not the times will ever be duplicated, I don't think any of the times from any of the manufacturers will ever be duplicated. Not the GT-Rs, not the Z06s, not the Carrera GTs, not the Zondas... none of them. As a matter of fact, the GT-R is the only one of these cars that has posted 2 times, a 7:38 and a 7:29. Regardless of what might be said about the differences in these two times, both times are fast as hell.

'Los

The GT-R testing and 7:29 lap time was done back in April. Official release of the GT-R stateside isn't until July.

'Los

Official release is one thing, but there are pictures of GTRs already in California. I believe it was one of the fanboys somewhere posted a the pic of 3 or 4 GTRs lined up with a bunch of other Nissans at the port or a dealer. Why would they send out the car if they are still testing different suspension settings?
-Joel

Wierd enough, I dont think the gtr is ugly. I guess here in the near future we will find out how fast it really is. Besides that Carlos, I still dont see how anything you said about the 2 versions can explain rolling starts, slicks, starting/stopping lines, unless ofcourse all of the info we have is completely false. But so could all of the "official" numbers coming out of fan boys.

I also think that a big reason of why "everything gtr is being banned" would be because of all the fan boys coming on this site and stirring the pot.

Tri, I thoroughly enjoy this post. GJ

The icing on the cake: GT-R chief engineer Kazutoshi Mizuno’s subsequent admission from that "We used cut slick tyres." If that doesn’t cancel their claim, nothing does.

well if they didnt used "Slick tires" and used production tires, why would they need to "Cut" them?

Just a reminder that (in case you haven't noticed) the automotive press has stopped acknowledging the 7:29 run. Wonder why? They didn't use the whole track. That's why.

The video shows that in the 7:38 run, they used the standard test track. There is no video for the 7:29 run. That's because they bypassed the "Betonschleife" which to a car like the GT-R, is worth 6-7 seconds. Too bad they did this, because interpolation tells us that if they had run the whole track, it would have been a 7:36 at least.

Funny that despite the fact that Nissan's little tricks are all over the net, some guys are still arguing points like it's the day after the GT-R's run. WAKE UP people, use common sense.

Ah nevermind. :bang:

Just a reminder that (in case you haven't noticed) the automotive press has stopped acknowledging the 7:29 run. Wonder why? They didn't use the whole track. That's why.

The video shows that in the 7:38 run, they used the standard test track. There is no video for the 7:29 run. That's because they bypassed the "Betonschleife" which to a car like the GT-R, is worth 6-7 seconds. Too bad they did this, because interpolation tells us that if they had run the whole track, it would have been a 7:36 at least.

Funny that despite the fact that Nissan's little tricks are all over the net, some guys are still arguing points like it's the day after the GT-R's run. WAKE UP people, use common sense.

Ah nevermind. :bang:

No matter what its a losing battle :engarde: To the fanboys our pushrod engines are from the age of the dinosaurs, yet it can still run with all the highly advanced engines of today. The GM pushrod engine is far from obsolete, and the Z06 and the ZR1 are proof that new technology is not always better.
-Joel
-Joel

Oh knows, here comes another shit storm....good article.

Official release is one thing, but there are pictures of GTRs already in California. I believe it was one of the fanboys somewhere posted a the pic of 3 or 4 GTRs lined up with a bunch of other Nissans at the port or a dealer. Why would they send out the car if they are still testing different suspension settings?
-Joel

I honestly don't know exactly why those cars were here. I think it's very possible, however, that those were also pre-production models sent here for testing by car magazines and such. There are often pre-pro cars found out and about for 'real world' testing. Take the ZR1 for example.

'Los

Best post ever!

Pissy (AND company) will be on this in; 3-2-1...

In B4 the :lock:

I would direct that person to this:


http://www.fastestlaps.com/index.php?page_id=compare&car1=4717b80e35715&car2=4571c3c67224f

Nothing more to say. Cut slicks, flying starts, rollin starts, kart wheels, jumping jacks, etc...... All we need to look at are the results! The fact is, "NO" regular Z06 has beaten a GTR around a track! And for the people that bring up One Lap America, that was a twin turbo Z06 that was ahead of the GTR!

5 25 Chevrolet Z06 Corvette 1230 5760
Dan Corcoran, Kyle Corcoran

The Z06 of Dan and Kyle is an LPE 650 TT car, with a RAFT suspension.

^ Thats the one ahead of the GTR.

^ Why did the Z06 get "0" points for track performance??
-Joel

flame suit: check.
popcorn: check.
fanbois: check.
IB4TL: check.

good post!

Heres Haltech GTR. Only modification done was a standalone. Still has stock cats, exhaust, intercooler, downpipes and intake. Boost was set to 15psi and no launch control!


http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Haltech-R35-Gt-Dyno-and-Dr-t219636.html


Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RU_EUvR4RW4

Best mph was 126.

^ Why did the Z06 get "0" points for track performance??
-Joel

Im not sure.

But we can speculate tires and rolling starts all day long. The fact remains that it is officially documented with Nordeclief/Nurburgring(sp).

All we can do is wait for the ZR1. I hope to God it breaks the 7:20 barrier.

Standalone wouldn't exactly make it perfectly stock now would it? Is 15psi factory boost, if so you make it seem like its been adjusted. Either way the car is not stock, if you want to play that game lets compare the Z06s that are "100% Stock" with drag radials that run 10's.
-Joel

The ZR1 will break the 7:20 barrier, its going to crush it. Thing is we are talking about a car that used cut slick tires, and had a bunch of other things to give it an advantage. Which that wouldn't exactly make the car stock either? Lets give the the Z06 the same right to use the same procedures as Nissan and im sure it will close the gap if not surpass the gtr.
-Joel

The Truth About the Nissan GT-R and the Nürburgring Lap Record

By James Ansell
May 21, 2008

I agree with TTAC reviewer Stephan Wilkinson : the new Nissan GT-R is the old Honda NSX. Once people actually start driving Nissan’s “everyday supercar”– as opposed to simply jumping on the hype bandwagon and bench racing numbers supplied by Nissan– they’ll appreciate the parallel. Although I'm still looking forward to my first hands-on experience with the GT-R, the reality of the car’s true nature and importance in automotive history is right under the fan-boys’ noses.

The GT-R allegedly 'outperforms' thoroughbred supercars at a fraction of the price. Yes, but what price? The sticker price, or the in-your-garage price? Considering the hype surrounding the car and the limited production numbers, it will be years before a single new $70k GT-R will be sold for under $100k. At the moment, comparing the Nissan to say, a Corvette Z06, obfuscates the truth. But what the [Green] Hell…

No small part of the current GT-R lovefest can be attributed to the car’s 7:38 Nürburgring lap time. As TTAC has pointed out, there are real questions about the Green Hellmobile’s qualifications for the title “second fastest production car around the ‘Ring.” The car’s suspension was modified from the current Japanese production model, supposedly to reflect the American and European spec. Supposedly. Will anyone get a chance to compare the fabled ‘Ring runner and a final production car? Somehow I doubt it.

Meanwhile, the YouTube video of the Nissan’s “historic run” clearly shows that the GT-R had a flying start. All other manufacturers testing at the ‘Ring use standing starts for published lap times. The video also proves that the car's lap time was not measured at the exact same location (start and stop). Take these two factors into account, and the 7:40 claim seems highly dubious.

The icing on the cake: GT-R chief engineer Kazutoshi Mizuno’s subsequent admission from that "We used cut slick tyres." If that doesn’t cancel their claim, nothing does.

In fact, a regular Corvette Z06 would probably beat the GT-R on the Nürburgring. When Road & Track tested the GT-R against the Z06 on a track much smaller than the ‘Ring, they concluded that the GT-R was fast in the corners, but they didn't shed a whole lot of light on how the GT-R performed on the straights. Although the ‘Ring has an enormous amount of corners, it also has some of the longest straight-aways in the world.

In Road & Track’s technical comparo, the GT-R was just as fast to 60mph as the Z06 (despite being less powerful). What many have over-looked is the trap speed at the end of the 1/4 mile. The Z06 is about seven mph faster than the GT-R. When you look at the graph that accompanies these numbers, the GT-R’s AWD system gave it a clear advantage– but only at the start. Applied to the Green Hell, the Z06 would outpace the GT-R on the straights.

The Z06’s fastest recorded lap time at the Nürburgring is 7:42.9 This lap was driven in 2005 by Jan Magnussen in 'muggy' conditions. Last year, Chevy revised the suspension on all Corvette models including the Z06. In theory, the new suspension and better weather conditions should be enough for a Z06 to equal or even better the Nissan GT-R's true time of +7:40. When you consider that the Z06 can achieve this time with a GM-standard standing start and production tires, it seems obvious that the GT-R is no match for the Z06 around the ring.

But what does it all mean? Well, not much actually. Every racetrack is different and some cars are suited to some tracks while others are not. The GT-R is suited to smaller tracks like the one R&T used, and the Z06 is suited to longer and faster ones like the ‘Ring.

So why did I bother ranting about this? Nissan has chosen to flaunt its Nürburgring lap times to show the world that their new, high-tech Nissan GT-R is the new bang-for-the-buck Alpha. But it’s not true. The cheaper Corvette Z06 is still the worlds best [unmodified] performance car bargain. What’s more, if the GT-R cannot handle a stock Z06, then how will it fare against the upcoming ZR1? Never mind the 'almighty' spec V model.

Given the GT-R’s looks and oft-reported lack of driving feel, there’s only one reason anyone would buy the uber-Nissan: to own the fastest thing on the road. In the corners, maybe. If you were committed enough to drive at 10/10ths (never mind how “easy” it is), you could probably blow-off a 911 or similar. Down the straights (the great American pastime), there are faster and cheaper choices– and that’s without exploring relatively inexpensive modifications.

In short, the GT-R is an awesome achievement, but Wilkinson’s right: it’s not all that.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-truth-about-the-nissan-gt-r-and-the-nurburgring-lap-record/

http://www.drivers-republic.com/news/news_article_14_05_08.cfm

Standalone wouldn't exactly make it perfectly stock now would it? Is 15psi factory boost, if so you make it seem like its been adjusted. Either way the car is not stock, if you want to play that game lets compare the Z06s that are "100% Stock" with drag radials that run 10's.
-Joel

O, Im beyond the stock arguement now. BTW, that was with no launch control. We can subract another .5 with that added

I understand that this wasnt stock. This wasnt the point I was trying to make. But with only 3psi more boost it ran an 11.1. Thats very impressive. We all know the Z06 is faster in a straight line. But we can see how quickly this can change with one minor installment

The ZR1 will break the 7:20 barrier, its going to crush it. Thing is we are talking about a car that used cut slick tires, and had a bunch of other things to give it an advantage. Which that wouldn't exactly make the car stock either? Lets give the the Z06 the same right to use the same procedures as Nissan and im sure it will close the gap if not surpass the gtr.
-Joel

Why are you referring to cut slick again? We've gone over this before! Would you like for me to qoute/paste the article in which it states it was a language barrier problem?

One more thing. If it did use cut slicks, how do you explain all the tracks the GTR owns the Z06?

O, Im beyond the stock arguement now. BTW, that was with no launch control. We can subract another .5 with that added

I understand that this wasnt stock. This wasnt the point I was trying to make. But with only 3psi more boost it ran an 11.1. Thats very impressive. We all know the Z06 is faster in a straight line. But we can see how quickly this can change with one minor installment

Uhhhh was i the only one reading that? I did 11.5-11.8 w/o the TCS and 11.1 w/ it ON. That EVO smashed it outta the hole too. Guess thats just because it's lighter. Not saying it isn't impressive, but but by your logic, install a cam for the Z06 at the same time you use that standalone. Mod for mod :nod: How would the tables look then?

All things being the same one it is modded the game is completely different. It turns into a run whatcha brung and hope you brought enough type deal , and that debate will get even worse. so stick to the stock vs. stock. I get the deal with this car, I happen to like this car for being THE poster child of electronic wizardry. What i don't like is all the hype and deceit surrounding it. That's the thing that completely just forces me away from it.

Heres Haltech GTR. Only modification done was a standalone. Still has stock cats, exhaust, intercooler, downpipes and intake. Boost was set to 15psi and no launch control!


http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Haltech-R35-Gt-Dyno-and-Dr-t219636.html


Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RU_EUvR4RW4

Best mph was 126.

Uhhh... That video you posted... That was at 15psi, which is a 50% increase from stock, through a modified exhaust, a complete ECU remap and run with the launch control on. 126mph traps were achieved with well over 15psi. How do I know this? I read the link you posted. Maybe you should try the same :lol: