Italiano

alright guys, so I am ordering my G2's next week and just found a set of bilsteins HD. Recomend thoughts on getting them revalved? WE are talking about a DD here. I heard I would be able to get by

MadIceV8

iTrader: (12)

A lot of people have used that same setup and have been happy with it. However the Bilsteins aren't meant for lowered cars, so re valving them is a good idea... but for the price you might be better off just getting SA Koni's.

Italiano

yea, if I were to revalve them then I agree, Koni's would be the better option. But I read on the LG site that they recomend HD's with their G2's. Any thoughts?

RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

Where did you find Bilsteins? Word has been that there were none in the country ....

Killer_Bluebird

iTrader: (23)

Just so you know longevity is an issue with lowered cars and stock HD's I think I've seen post from people getting 15,000 or so mile before their shocks are blown. You may want to do a search to confirm.

Italiano

really? 15,000? wow, anybody else got confirmation on that? And I am buying mine from a private seller, not a company

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

Unless you know what valvings and have the equipment or have a source to revalve them properly, then you should reconsider. The price to do them correctly will push them near the price of brand new Koni SA's, not to mention Bilstein will not warranty HD's once they're revalved. I believe at the time, Sam Strano had "proper revalves" done right at Bilstein as he ordered them brand new, not revalving shelf stocked ones.

You will also learn the hard way about what was discussed in your other thread about proper shock valving. Again, I like some of LG's stuff, but that recommendation of the G2 w/ stock Bilstein HD is really not that good of a combination. Sure, people may like them, but I didn't like the fact that the stock Bilsteins didn't damp the spring oscillations properly, which made for an uncomfortable and less predictable ride (much better than stock, but worse than not having the proper valving.

Italiano

no foxxtron I get what you're sayin, but I am plannin on getting a C5 next year, so when it comes to the saying... "if your gonna do it, do it right" it doesnt really apply for my camaro. I mean I care about her, but price is a bit of an issue at the moment, and I am not looking to make it the best or most comfortable one out there. That time will come when the C5 is sitting in my driveway. If it is better than stock, than you will have no complaints from me.

I just dont want you guys thinkin I am disagreeing with you, its just that I dont think you understand the situation, thats all. Make Sense?

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

It's your car and your perogative with what you're going to do with it and feel free to disagree, but as long as anyone posts around here, disagreements are expected. While it appeared that you initially "gave into pressure" in your other threads and decided to just go Koni SA's, bear in mind that this thread subject is also pertinent to your other thread, therefore it's highly recommended to continue this discussion there instead of beginning a new thread.

Now with what you've posted, you're basing your decision on manufacturer claims alone. As I'll mention a third time, I have had the setup you're proposing, but if the problem with using Bilstein HD's was that their valving wasn't meant to be used with any other springs except the stock springs. While these are manufacturer claims, I and others have verified that to be credible since we've dynoed the "older revision" Bilstein HD's. While they weren't terrible, they are not recommended, plus the newer ones have valvings that aren't much better than the stock DeCarbons. I used to have your setup with stock HD's and they actually wore out before 10,000 miles. It could've been for another reason that they wore out, but nevertheless, Bilstein observed the shocks for any "non-manufacturer" installation and decided that they will not cover it under their warranty. Other's maybe lucky, but that's the truth because I like themselves know what to look for when shocks go bad due to neglect and/or competition instead of a simple manufacturing defect.

You mention in this thread stating that you are thinking about them getting revalved. The biggest problem around here is that there actually several "revalved Bilsteins" that were available for the F-body at one time or another. Many of these weren't that great either, as experienced by myself, Sam Strano, and several others around this forum. The ones that Sam Strano sold at one time were actually much better, but again, due to the current situation with Bilstein's supply, it's pretty much out of the question.

I'll state again, if you're going to do revalves yourself, it will be costly and time consuming as well and still may not be right the first time if you shall do it outside of Bilstein's facilities. Really, it's possible, but with the time and money involved, you'll discover that the cost will exceed the price for brand new and lifetime warrantied Koni SA's (but in the warranty only applies to the original owner, which Bilstein may as long as their shock remains stock). With the time mentioned, you're trying to get rid of the car soon, so why go through the wait for something that will be costly to do on your own. Reread this paragraph several times and you'll notice that it's a comparison, not a sales pitch.

z28bryan

iTrader: (7)

If you don't care about matching the valving up with the springrate then sure, no problem. You can do what you want with your car. But we'll chime in for the purpose of others who want info on the combination and don't want to hide that the shocks aren't valved to match those springs.

MadIceV8

iTrader: (12)

Do a search on "G2 Bilstein" and you'll find the answer. I know its been discussed a few times already.

Italiano

Foxtron, I started a new thread because its a new discussion... I just recently came across a set of bilsteins for sale. And I agree, if I were planning on doing revalving, then Koni's would be the obvious decision. And yes, I understand there will be disagreements, and you guys want to put those who aren't in the know... in the know.

Any other thoughts from HD G2 owners?

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

This has been hashed, re-hashed, hashed again, and probably 10 of 12 more times on top of it.

Bottom line, for years Bilstein told everyone in the catalog that HD's were not suitable for lowering springs. In fact I often did, and still do point that out, and it took them a few years, but they removed it in the last printing. Meanwhile, the shocks have changed valving to be even more like DeCarbon's than they were before. And if they weren't quite right before, the certainly aren't now.

Do I think HD's are right? No. If you want to go that way, that's your call. I'll never considering it the best thing to do, or even the 5th best thing to do. I think if you are hellbent on running HD's, you need to back off the spring set. I think the combination is worst than either of the individual parts.

I don't understand how folks think that shocks meant for stock spring rates and heights aren't really right for springs that are about twice as stiff and have less travel in which the shocks can do their damping. I certainly feel that sometimes you see recommendations that are easy, and it's definitely easier to sell someone on a less expensive product. Cost isn't everything to be sure, but with shocks you do get what you pay for, and I think you've seen that folks are rarely anything less than pee in their pants happy with Koni's, even those that have had Bilstein's before.

I think you're trying to convince yourself this is the right thing to do, but I don't think you'll find a ton of support for it. If you back off spring, you'd be better off with HD's though still not near what I'd call right. If you stay on the spring course you have picked, that's fine but when I consider Koni's to be best for my springs, they are even more necessary for that much more rear spring rate IMHO.

transwiz

iTrader: (26)

I would listen to strano.When it comes to suspension, Sam is the man. I love my koni's and wonder how I drove my car without them.It's your car
and whatever makes you happy,but I would consider my options carefully.



_______________________
2000 t/a with lots of mods

Italiano

is the combo better than a stock set up?

z28bryan

iTrader: (7)

Oh no! Not the dreaded "What's the best...?" question

Basically you got what you could out of the suspension experts. Now your just waiting for the inexperienced average joes to come in here and say "I run that setup and so far I have no problems". It's your call, you can do what you want. Why don't you just go ahead and try it so you can have the personal experience and comparison.

If you want my opinion I'd prefer the stock setup because I already have it in which means less work, and I wouldnt lower my car unless I had the proper shocks for it. I would rather have a stock floatier setup than a harsh lower setup with the wrong shocks, but that's just me. Not everyone would want that though.

Hatchetman337

iTrader: (3)

Sorry to barge in, but everyone keeps saying that the Bilsteins are not good for lowered cars, but are they good for stock height cars?

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Not so much these days.... They had a "change" in valving that actually made the rears more like DeCarbons. The "old" HD which hasn't been around for about 2 years now was a damned good replacement shock for stock height cars and folks wanting good, capable damping, but not super amounts of control. In fact, I used to sell quite a lot of them.

I stopped selling HD's when the "change" happened. When I suddenly got 3 call back in 3 weeks, all complaining they didn't notice much difference. That was a huge red-flag for me and at that point just could not continue to recommend something that I didn't feel was up to scratch.

Hatchetman337

iTrader: (3)

So at this point, would you say the KYBs are a better replacement than the Bilsteins? Thanks for the insight, Sam.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

That is probably one of the hardest questions to answer. At this point, I'd have to say the AGX's would get the nod. They are not build as well, but they do offer better damping, and of course the ability to manipulate the forces being adjustable.

AGX's are also available, where as HD's are kind of vaporware these days. And @ $409 a set the AGX's aren't exactly super expensive.